Which 4wd to recommend?

[series3]

A friend of mine has asked my for some advice on what 4wd he should be looking for when he gets back into Australia.


my criteria is simple i just want something that is 4wd, good on the highway and can tow a horse float.

He wants something Diesel, preferably turbocharged in a trayback format. He isn't interested in anything British, believing the hearsay that they are unreliable etc etc.

He has ~$20,000 to spend.

I have done a bit of looking around, and for a variety of reasons want to point him in the direction of GU/GQ 4.2TD trayback, in preference of a 70 series or hilux.

Is there any options I have missed or dismissed too readily? What say you?

Cheers,

Sam

[isuzurover]

How large a horse float and how far does he want to tow it?

My dad just bought a new turbo diesel dual cab mazda bravo. A shade over $30k with alloy tray, rustproofing, snorkel and a few other bits.

They apparently have a reputation for gearbox issues, but time will tell if they have fixed that by now.

[series3]

How large a horse float and how far does he want to tow it?

Around this big. it won't be over 300 odd kms per sitting, and not very regularly. maybe every few weeks?
http://members.iinet.net.au/~allholden/oz/floats/Pegasus.JPG

Sam

[sumo]

[QUOTE=series3;1425451]A friend of mine has asked my for some advice on what 4wd he should be looking for when he gets back into Australia.



He wants something Diesel, preferably turbocharged in a trayback format. He isn't interested in anything British, believing the hearsay that they are unreliable etc etc.

He has ~$20,000 to spend.

I have done a bit of looking around, and for a variety of reasons want to point him in the direction of GU/GQ 4.2TD trayback, in preference of a 70 series or hilux.

G/Day mate, The last of the GQ range were a very strong reliable unit.

A builder i know clocked up 700,000kms with no probs whatsoever:eek:

Dunno if my 130 tray back will equal that:eek:

Finding one at the right price without two many ks is another thing

Might not have to spend the $20,000 either



Good Luck

Cheers Sumo

[isuzurover]

I missed the $20k line.

Best option would be a 110 or 130 - which he doesn't want...

A close 2nd would be a GQ/GU coiller - Rick130 owns/owned one, he can give you the lowdown.

IMHO 2nd hand toyotas are overpriced and have a poor ride for what they are.

[Fish78]

Patrol would be my first choice as well, but get him to drive a few Direct inj turbo diesel dual cabs, Mazda BT50 and Isuzu D-MAX are very good, with their modern engines they have it all over the Patrol on road and fuel use is exceptional, off road the Patrol is better.

[series3]

Thanks everyone.

Ditto on the 2nd hand Landcruiser market. everything had stacks of kms, looked rough without any concrete form of servicing history, but still commanded big bucks. Something that looked good was still asking 35-40k. Bugger that.

I haven't really looked at the dualcab scene, I didn't really think of it, or didn't want to. I will though, and see how they stack up.

Sam

[series3]

Can I please get some opinions of what is around in the "dualcab" scene?

keep in mind Turbo Diesel options like the Navaras, Ranger/BT-50 and Tritons. How do these stack up against the likes of a GQ/GU?

The way that I see it at the moment, is these are essentially lighter-duty, more on-road biased options compared to the Patrol/LC/Defender market. Am I correct?

How do the "dualcab" options stand up to a bit of weight on the towball and a bit of recreational offroad/camping? The motors seem to produce some commendable levels of torque, but I know that is only partial to the whole story.

Any opinions/experiences would be great.

Sam

[rick130]

[snip]
A close 2nd would be a GQ/GU coiller - Rick130 owns/owned one, he can give you the lowdown.

[snip]

Actually it's SWMBO's, and she tells everyone i keep trying to pinch her diffs, engine and gearbox :D

Excellent vehicle, we've had it since new and it's now clocked over 350,000km with minimal work.
It's also much quieter inside than any Defender.

I tried to kill it just before Christmas. I dropped the coolant and ran a radiator flush through it, then decided to go into town so took the Patrol rather than let it sit and idle for 20min.
It boiled and spat most of the water out :o
When I dropped the water pump it had started to cavitate erode the alloy housing it bolts into, that's how hot it got.
The head gasket is still fine, It towed a trailer to Qld two days later and is on the Gold Coast again this week.

Tough old engine the TD42T.

Other than replacing the hoses and water pump at that time as a precaution (345,000km on the originals) the only other things apart from consumables like filters, pads, belts and tyres that have been changed was a fuel transfer pump on the sub tank (under warranty) and I replaced all the glow plugs twelve months ago (a couple had gone open circuit)

It's still on the original clutch, which is pretty impressive as it spent most of it's life towing horses (big, heavy Warmbloods) across the countryside.
I've heard others have had clutch issues, but that may just be an individual/one off thing ?
At one stage I was doing oil changes every two and a half to three weeks just from the towing miles :(
I changed to a syn engine oil and extended the oil change intervals and that fixed that problem. :D

The alternator is untouched (I'm pulling it off soon for a service, just as a precaution) and the discs are still the originals.
The injectors are still untouched, as is the pump (I keep saying we are going to get the injectors serviced but.....:angel:)
It is sensitive to fuel filters, I've settled on good and cheap Nippon Max.
Any other brands tend to let crud get through into the thimble filter buried under the fuel inlet banjo on top of the injector pump.
This slows forward progress, it basically starves the engine of fuel.
Once you know it's there and how to retrieve it (a piece of welding/mig wire to fish it out and some carby cleaner do wonders) you are back in business.
It should just become a normal service item, then you won't have any problems.

One rear axle seal is weeping, I have the seal and a new bearing here but it's a mongrel of a job to do, give me a fully floating rear end any day.

The Series I GU TD42T's tend to overheat at speed on climbs, and bigger (thicker core) radiators, etc don't seem to help.

The Series II (intercooled) models use a different front cross member (it has a big drop in it ) and a deeper radiator and they don't seem to have any issues.

I'm pretty convinced it's an air flow issue (too high underbonnet air pressure) as overfilling the viscous clutch goes a long way to alleviating the problem.
Basically you are locking up the fan much earlier than normal and pulling more air through the radiator (or pushing the underbonnet air away IMO)

Oh, and the electric antenna frigged up once too, I replaced that.
Other than that, it's been the model of reliability.

Other niggles are the OE ute rear springs are weak.
They are variable rate and yet harsh riding and worse, the bum sags as soon as you throw some horse feed in the rear :confused:
Aftermarket springs, polyair/firestone inner bags or real airbags are the fix.

In hard use I've heard of the door hinges (or the support) failing due to the long, heavy door, but they are most always mining or farm vehicles that have usually been flogged.

In stock form it's no where near as quick as a Yota on the hills, in fact they are relatively slow but install a 3" exhaust and a small tweak of the fuel pump and a slight change in pump timing and it'll fly while barely upsetting the fuel economy.

Speaking of which the Defender beats it by at least 1l/100km and the Defender has around 4-500kg in at all times, MT's etc and the Patrol is mostly unladedn these days.

The paint is thinner than the Defender too, and the early utes, even though ours is an ST it is a poverty pack compared to the wagons, they miss out on a lot of the extras that the wagon gets, which is annoying.

For years Nissan refused to fit airbags too but IIRC they are fitted from the intercooled model on (although it may only have been an option ?)

Rated Towing capacity on the early GU utes's was a piddling 2500kg, ( the wagon was 3500kg) even the Navarra could tow more
After years of losing sales they revised the towing capacity, but I'm not sure if it's retrospective.

According to Nissan their legal people had insisted on it as they felt people could load the tray to the maximum rated level, then put 3500kg behind and then exceed the GVM.
My argument was the driver had exceeded the GVM so the driver was at fault, not Nissan, but it stayed that way for a few years.




There are a number of Patrols around here that do duty as ours has and everyone has had a good experience.


One of the local farriers had one, I sent him to a nearby diesel tuning crowd who did their thing, he had the tray braced for a gooseneck so he could tow his polo ponies and off he went.
It did sterling service for years, he really liked it but eventually sold it to a mate about twelve months ago and bought an F350 as he could jam more in/on when playing.
AFAIK he had no problems with his either.

Get one with a genuine service history using good quality lubes and filters (air filter in particular) and it should give great service.
They are an excellent tow vehicle IMO, with a much heavier duty driveline than the smaller utes (navarra, BT50, D-Max, etc)

It's not a Defender, but after maybe a G Wagen, it's the next best thing :D

[series3]

Thanks Rick. I have heard about a potential 5th gear weakness issue whilst towing, do you know anything about this?

Also, do you know when the intercooled motor (TD42Ti?) became standard?

I have been trawling other forums for opinions on these, but I am beset at every corner by self-confessed opinionated Toyota drivers who refuse to believe that anything else is any good and just argue stupidly about stupid points. I'm really impressed about the objectivity of AULRO.

Cheers,

Sam

[rick130]

The fifth gear issue was a batch of poorly machined shafts from late 2000 to mid '01.

They'd let go while driving (usually towing) but you'd still have all your other gears.
They should all be well and truly gone/repaired by now.

SWMBO thinks nothing of dropping into fifth while towing and has always done it.
Ours is still fine and I've not heard of any problems locally with the Patrol 'box, which is more than I can say for a number of 78 and 79 series 'Cruisers around here.

Off hand I can't recall the year the IC model was introduced.
FWIW it doesn't produce any more grunt (although it would be good to have, performance dies in the bum on really warm/hot days without the IC) but it was introduced (as was some electronic control of the pump) to lower NOx levels and get a few more years of sales out of the old engine,

It was our adoption of Euro III (or IV ?) diesel anti-pollution requirements that led to the demise of the TD42T.

BTW I forgot to say that I really don't like the seats much.
They look good but lack support. I actually get out of the Defender much better on a long trip and I'm 187cm and mostly legs.
It's actually my knees that cop it most in the Patrol, you sit a lot lower than the Defender (and a 79 Series) and for me my knees splay too much and they don't like it on a trip but the leg and shoulder room is much better than a Defender or 78/79 Series.

Ventilation is also poor unless you crank the fan up, (and there tends to be quite a bit of heat soak through the plenum) but the A/C is very good and the electrics seem good, our power windows have never had a problem (touch wood)

[edit]the LSD is also more robust than Toyota's version which tend to wear out very quickly.
The Nissan one is very, very good for a clutch pack LSD and lasts a very long time.

As I briefly mentioned above the semi-floating axle on the coil cabs is a potential problem compared to the 79 rear end when highly loaded, but again I'm unaware of any problems in use.
The higher payload leaf rear end ute has a much heavier duty rear diff and a full floating axles.
It makes the Sals look puny :D
The coiler rear diff is very strong too, it's just the axles/wheel bearings that aren't as good as Toyota or Land Rover in theory.

Also some tend to wander and wear front tyres unevenly.
A visit to a truck aligner is strongly recommended, they'll wind out a lot of camber and increase the castor with an eccentric bush for the swivel pin bearing. Well worth the $.