Has anyone imported an aircraft?

[p38arover]

After watching A Chopper is Born http://www.aulro.com/afvb/flight/121559-chopper-born.html

I've become overcome with lust.....

Elisabeth says I can waste (my words) $40K on a Defender 90 but I'd rather a heli.

I was wondering about this one: Exec-162f 2-seat helicopter: Ready to fly! (http://www.vortechonline.com/specials/exec162f_sjw.htm)

It's about the same price as a 90 but probably a lot more fun.

I was wondering about importing aircraft and getting certification.

I guess a trip to Alaska isn't out of the question but I'd need an expert to examine the chopper first.

Then I'd need to get my licence.........

[101RRS]

For the use it will get - better just to hire.

Garry

[JDNSW]

It is probably easier to import than a car! As long as it is not the first of type to arrive in Australia, I do not think there are undue problems.

Getting a chopper licence though will tend to be a bit expensive. And then there are minor problems like the medical. I've spent plenty of time in the passenger seat of choppers, mainly in PNG and Burma, but I have never really felt impelled to get a licence. Tried flying one on the odd occasion, not easy, even (or perhaps especially) for someone already holding a fixed wing licence!

John

[Gillie]

WHAT? :o

Ron wants to buy a chopper? What on earth makes you think that this is a good idea? Dare I refer you back to your abilty to buy faulty goods thread?

I don't think a chopper has a very good glide ratio which in your case might be cheap insurance. :D

A few blokes round here have the Jabiru Aircraft&Engines Australia (http://www.jabiru.net.au/) which are probaly worth two defenders!

[p38arover]

Thanks JD. I expect that crating it up and shipping it back wouldn't be cheap. At least the wings are easy to remove!

I think I need to hunt down a homebuilt heli group.

I've only had one lesson in a Robinson. Time for some more. I've always loved them.

Estimated cost of a PPL is $27K. A commercial is $54K but I can't see me aiming for that.

I used to fly model helis about 20 years ago and full size gliders about 30+ years ago.

[85 county]

Export cert, import cert and licenses, the certs are a mechanical thing.

Then registration here, on type? maintance schedule registration. Being first of type that with be tight.

Then PPL rotary, at a guess say about 140K all up

You can just pay an agent for all that, the only real problem I think you would have is get type endorsement. Being a single seat you cant have your check pilot fly along with you so instead you will need like a zillion hours on other types and a "reputation” of being competent. I had that problem with the DH89

[tailslide]

Hi Ron,

I'm currently building a Van's RV-7A and have also done 2 hrs training in helicopters, what fun...

I do have a PPL (aeroplane) and will continue with the fixed wing. Helicopters are so impractical for the private flyer.

Cheers
Ron

[harry]

some times we get a bit lost in our desires and our will to achieve those desires
the ability to achieve those desires is sorted out with the addition of money..
ron, if you can sit back and enjoy that training you had, and keep that in a special part if your achievements in your life, great.


now to the importing and learning to fly a friggen half baked homebuilt piece of **** helicopter,
in your case, forget it.

if you want to know more on homebuilt aircraft and how to do it pm me,

but i don't do heli's.

[THE BOOGER]

Nothing like encouragement and positive thinking eh?If yourve got the time any dosh then go for it the ppl is just time taken over 2 years the money isnt so bad but I wouldnt try to build a chopper they are unstable at the best of times with your luck the bolt thats left over would be the rotor hinge bolt remember the sea king accident?:p

[p38arover]

Then registration here, on type? maintance schedule registration. Being first of type that with be tight.

I'd hope that wouldn't be a problem. There are a number of the Rotorway Exec 162F in Oz. http://www.rotorway.com.au/


Then PPL rotary, at a guess say about 140K all up

Is that including chopper? I was quoted $27K by Bankstown Helis with whom I did my first training flight.


You can just pay an agent for all that, the only real problem I think you would have is get type endorsement. Being a single seat you cant have your check pilot fly along with you so instead you will need like a zillion hours on other types and a "reputation” of being competent. I had that problem with the DH89

The Exec is a two-seater with dual controls.

[p38arover]

Hi Ron,

I'm currently building a Van's RV-7A and have also done 2 hrs training in helicopters, what fun...

I do have a PPL (aeroplane) and will continue with the fixed wing. Helicopters are so impractical for the private flyer.

Cheers
Ron

Ooh! Oooh! I'd love to see pics or the real thing.

Fixed wing doesn't do as much for me. I prefer the concept of a million spare parts flying in close formation.

Unfortunately, an Exec kit is close on US$100K so I can't see me buying a kit. A ready-made one is cheaper but not as satisfying.

[p38arover]

some times we get a bit lost in our desires and our will to achieve those desires
the ability to achieve those desires is sorted out with the addition of money..
ron, if you can sit back and enjoy that training you had, and keep that in a special part if your achievements in your life, great.


now to the importing and learning to fly a friggen half baked homebuilt piece of **** helicopter,
in your case, forget it.

if you want to know more on homebuilt aircraft and how to do it pm me,

but i don't do heli's.

Yep, I know what you are saying, Harry. I can afford to get PPL rotary training. Whether I could actually get the licence is another issue!

Are you anti-heli or just anti-homebuilt heli? I'll PM you - although a phone call would be easier! :)

An issue that needs to be resolved is maintenance in Oz. Can one maintain it oneself or I do I need a LAME to do it? Rotorway say:



As the builder of the aircraft kit you are authorised to maintain it. It's a good feeling to know that everything has been serviced and checked to your own exacting standards.

Does this apply to aircraft built by others or just oneself? If it needs a LAME, then costs could blow out.

Garycol's probably right about just hiring as needed.

Can one learn on a Rotorway or would I need to take the usual Robinson route? If I could learn on a Rotorway in the USA, it could be cheaper to go there to get the PPL.

So much to learn. So little time. :(

[tailslide]

Hi Ron,

Currently, in order to perform your own maintenance you need to have built at least 50% of the aircraft. Yes, you need documented proof of this.

If you purchase an amateur built aircraft then you must use a LAME for all maintenance other than pilot approved maintenance.

If you are serious then I would highly recommend joining the SAAA (Sports Aircraft Association Australia). SAAA - We are the Builders of AUSTRALIAN EXPERIMENTAL AIRCRAFT (http://www.saaa.com)

My kit aircraft is from Van's: Van's Aircraft - Total Performance RV Kitplanes (http://www.vansaircraft.com/) need to dig up some photos but you will get the idea...

Cheers
Ron

[p38arover]

Thanks Ron.

That rules out buying a completed aircraft. LAME costs might be prohibitive. :(

I wasn't keen on the idea from the point that one doesn't become as familiar as when building oneself.

Ah well. Pipe dreams. I'll look into joining the the Association although I'm not that interested in building a fixed wing aircraft. I did see there is a Piel Emeraude for sale in Oz for $35K. http://www.aviationadvertiser.com.au/classifieds/detail.php?id=1579

Rotary wings are my thing although I do have fixed wing model aircraft.

I built my first flying model heli (rubber powered contrarotating blades) over 50 years ago. I have 4 or 5 internal combustion engined helis in the garage (I've forgotten how many. There may be more. I know I have a 20+ year old unbuilt Graupner heli kit in a box)

[Xtreme]

Hi Ron.

What about a Gyro Copter?

There's a guy at Baan Baa - just south of Narrabri - that builds them.

Here's a link to a bit of a story about them. Magni Gyro (http://www.magnigyro.com.au/story.asp)

[p38arover]

I have thought about them, Roger. I should look a bit more closely. Certainly a lot cheaper. Those gyros look pretty good.

I haven't been to Baan Baa since 1968-69 when I used to go to watch sailplanes (I was working at Moree Satellite Earth Station at the time).

[101 Ron]

Gyrocotoper are much cheaper with the same amount of fun.
Medicals are no where near as bad as a choppers lic.
They are hard to fly like a chopper and you must look at where you are in life to decide if you want to go there.
My gyro was lic with a proven track record , log book etc.
In fact the main place it used to operate from was Eskine PK and fly all over western sydney until that site was developed.

[harry]

ooh ron,
you seem to have been bitten by the aircraft bug.

i do saaa experimental c of a's, but not heli,
i can put you in touch with a heli mate up here, he knows his stuff.

rotorway, as above, talk to my mate peter, he knows about them.

gyrocopter - not a good idea. sorry, i am a lame, seen too many broken.

maintenance - if you build it, and do the saaa maintenance course you will be able to maintain that part of the aircraft which you built provided you built 51% of the aircraft.

if you go to the casa website you should be able to find
'instrument no. 43/11'
which is the power to maintain your own aircraft.

[p38arover]

I'm afraid I've loved aircraft since I was a kid. I had a huge collection of photos, slides, scrapbooks, etc. I was in the RAAF Air Cadets, flew model aircraft since I was pre-teen (first control line model with Taipan 2.5 diesel when I was 12 - I still have the engine and control handle), tried to join the RAAF (failed due eyesight), have flown full-size gliders.

I could never afford to get a PPL when I was younger. Now I can but I doubt I'd use it enough. :(

[85 county]

do it any way, its intresting stuff, met Nav but i think the mechanical bit would bore the hell out of you

[Hamish71]

I remember my first lesson. 14. (Dad was a commercial heli pilot).

I still smile when I think about him as he explained the difference between fixed and rotary wing waircraft.....essentially:

Fixed wing aircraft follow the example of the birds, taking advantage of nature, and its elements, to glide through the air with grace.

Rotary wing aircraft, look at god, raise the middle finger, and seek to beat his laws of physics into submission.

Im happy to fly both....but not so keen on helicopters and piston engines.

[Cloud Basher]

Back to the original question.

Add $20-25K to the price to ship an aircraft, import it, get it put back together, get an Australian CoA and get it on the register. Remember to add 10% for GST. I haven't imported one yet but I am actively looking at importing a Pitts S2B or S2C and that is what I have been quoted.

Note that as has been stated unless you build 51% or more you cannot do your own maintenance. Additionally you may be hard pressed to find a LAME to work on one of these especilly imported from overseas as he has no history and little confidence in the machine. Because when they issue a maintenance release it is their butt on the line.

My suggestion is to firstly go and get your Helo licence, then fly around in Robbies for a while. Then you will know what you want, what works and have a better idea of what may be suitable. The $40K asking for this chopper sends alarm bells ringing in my head, especially with only 20 odd hours in 11 years. I would take a guess that is will have some serious engine and hydraulic issues possibly requiring a tear down etc. But a thourough prepurchse with borescope inspection of both the bores and the camshaft may alleviate this concern. At the very least all the hoses and seals would likely require changing. Like most things mechanical (except Land Rovers!) the more you use it the less it breaks down. If aircraft are not used at least weekly then you start to get things breaking/leaking etc. Remember that old adage: "What keeps an aircraft in the air?... Money"

And an old saying about the three F's that has been repeated to me from those much wiser than I when it comes to aircraft; "If it flies, floats or f*#$'s, RENT IT". No I don't want to listen to it either. Aircraft ownership is not about a rational monetary decision. It is purely about wants and satisfying an inner need to have your own flying machine.

I wish you well in your endeavour for both your licence and your aircraft. Almost anyone can be taught to fly, you just have to throw money at the problem.

Cheers
CB.

[weeds]

a mate of mine just imported a plane..........so i'm guessing its achievable

personnaly i would start with a licence first, buy or hire something local first to work exactly what you need than look at importing, thats what my mate did