Tell me it isn't true...

[VladTepes]

Talking to my local Toyota dealer on the weekend.

He was crapping on about how Toyota are going HYBRID because diesel is cancerous and will eventually be banned :rolleyes:

anyway what he DID say is that we can look forward to:



HYBRID Rav-4
HYBRID Hilux



Toyota :toilet:

[abaddonxi]

What were you doing at a Toyota dealership?

[bigmac]

yes Vlad you beter have a good explanation for being at a toymotor dealer
for tomorrow night

Bigmac

[Hoges]

Talking to my local Toyota dealer on the weekend.

He was crapping on about how Toyota are going HYBRID because diesel is cancerous and will eventually be banned :rolleyes:

anyway what he DID say is that we can look forward to:



HYBRID Rav-4
HYBRID Hilux



Toyota :toilet:

it's also 'cancerous' standing in the sun listening to Toyonuts crapping on about matters of which they know nought!!!:eek: Hope you wore a hat!:D

[Narangga]

What were you doing at a Toyota dealership?


yes Vlad you beter have a good explanation for being at a toymotor dealer
for tomorrow night

Bigmac

Must be his brother in law. ;)

[Mick_Marsh]

Be happy that the batteries used in hybrids contain lots of toxic chemicals which will probably be found to be carcinogens in the future.
Biodiesel would probably be the best future direction for motor vehicles.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

while we're on the subject aren't diesel railway locos hybrids? :)

[ADMIRAL]

Pushing his own barrow methinks.

[Sully]

Diesel is cancerous?? What a knob. All fuel is bad for the human body. Most sales reps would need to take a second bight of a **** sandwich to actually realise they're eating a **** sandwich.

I'd say he's been told that by the marketing team and is running with it as he has no idea otherwise. I would have laughed in his face, called him some fun names and walked.

[sadbenn]

Will start to ploish gumboot Vall :o

[Reads90]

Talking to my local Toyota dealer on the weekend.

He was crapping on about how Toyota are going HYBRID because diesel is cancerous and will eventually be banned :rolleyes:

anyway what he DID say is that we can look forward to:



HYBRID Rav-4
HYBRID Hilux



Toyota :toilet:

You must have had sucker wrighten all over your forehead as he gave you a right salesman line for selling you up to a more expensive hybrid

You sound like a salemans dream customer

Sent from my iPhone

[JDNSW]

while we're on the subject aren't diesel railway locos hybrids? :)

No. Most diesel locomotives are electric drive, where the diesel drives a generator and electric motors drive the bogies. But the term "hybrid" when used for cars means that there is also a battery set to enable the use of a smaller motor while still providing high peak power. Locomotives do not have any batteries in the power train, so by the usual definition they are not hybrid. In this usage the word hybrid implies a cross between battery electric and internal combustion power. The diesel electric locomotive is not cross between anything - it is a straight electric transmission.

John

[akelly]

I may be wrong, but I think I read somewhere that Tata is doing R&D for a LR hybrid, cant remember if it said what platform it would be on - inevitable that things will go this way for a while, at least until something better comes along.

Adam

[isuzurover]

I agree - the salesman is an idiot.

However - diesel SOOT is classified as a "suspected" or "potential" carcinogen by NIOSH/OSHA etc... There is a lot of ongoing research looking at the health effects of diesel and biodiesel emissions.

There is no chance of it being banned, however. Emissions regs are getting much stricter though. Euro 5 emissions levels (coming soon) place both mass and particle number emissions limits - since health effects have been found to be related to surface area moreso than mass.

Diesels will be here for a long time yet, but they will get even cleaner. BD from conventional crops is not viable as a large scale replacement for diesel. However BD from algae or other sources (oil mallee etc) may be in 10-30 years.

Funnily enough though, printer toner is as bad as diesel soot (or worse).



No. Most diesel locomotives are electric drive, where the diesel drives a generator and electric motors drive the bogies. But the term "hybrid" when used for cars means that there is also a battery set to enable the use of a smaller motor while still providing high peak power. Locomotives do not have any batteries in the power train, so by the usual definition they are not hybrid. In this usage the word hybrid implies a cross between battery electric and internal combustion power. The diesel electric locomotive is not cross between anything - it is a straight electric transmission.

John

They are technically a "diesel-electric" but (off)road D-E vehicles are being called "hybrids" as it is trendy.

There are also a growing number of trucks (military), tractors and mowers etc. which are diesel electric. IMHO it makes a lot of sense. You have a small diesel running at optimum output and emissions levels, connected to a genset, some ultracapacitors, and then electric drive.

for a 4x4 there are obvious benefits - maximum torque right from idle, no gearbox or T-case, most of the weight can be mounted low down to reduce CofG, and you alwasy have a genset with you.

Oshkosh ran a diesel-electric "hybrid" in Baja:
YouTube - Oshkosh diesel-electric hybrid for Baja 1000

[VladTepes]

Did I say I was taken in by it for a minute ? Not likely - just relaying what he said coz i thought you;d all find it amusing.

You'll be glad to know I was there NOT buying a car !

[tempestv8]

I would love to see the Japs do a diesel hybrid, but I suspect that this is a long long way off.

But it would make lots of sense for 4x4's to be fitted with high torque drivetrains - electric motors can produce their max torque from near zero revs, which is why trains use them. :)

Maybe the sales person is just exercising on his "bullsxxx" skills to see how far he can go... LOL!

[THE BOOGER]

How about a hybrid M113:D

United Defense electric drive Bradley (United States) - Jane's Armour and Artillery Upgrades (http://www.janes.com/articles/Janes-Armour-and-Artillery-Upgrades/United-Defense-electric-drive-Bradley-United-States.html)

there are even hybrid drive 155mm guns around and work on tanks none of them by toyota though:D

[cookiesa]

Under that definition most of the U-boats and submarines built were hybrids :)

[PAT303]

Toyota are also working on hybrid vehicles that drive by themselves.Once underway they stay in their lane and keep correct gaps between themselves and the vehicle in front without any input from the driver,the go and slow peddle and steering all computer controlled to give the best consumption and traffic flow and according to Toyota they are the way of the future.Considering they have trouble making normal vehicles that don't go out of control I think I'll pass on that one. Pat

[rockyroad]

I hope Toymota do go that way because once they do they will officially no longer be capable 4WDs.

Add electric motors and a bank of heavy batteries to their 2nd rate suspension and you will find them bogged pretty quickly.

[CraigE]

Where do you draw the line. Diesel particulates, Benzine particulates, Lead and Lead additive particulates are all known carcinogens. Most metal dusts are known carcinogens.
It is about what we consider a reasonable and acceptable risk.

Hybrids, well it has now been proven beyond doubt that they are a bigger environmental threat and cause more damage than the average 10-15 year old diesel or v8 petrol. This is calculated over the useable life of a vehicle. A standard vehicle may have a life of around 20 years, Hybrid cars and their batteries have an estimated life of around 10 years max, with standard life expected to be 5 years for replacement. While these car do less damage to the environment while being driven, they still use coal generated power to supply electricity so are adding to pollution still. Then the disposal of the batteries is horrendous. It results in hybrid cars actually being much more damaging than an average combustion engine car.

Then there is Vehicle Extrication of hybrid cars and they are a nightmare for fire and rescue.

[PAT303]

I hope Toymota do go that way because once they do they will officially no longer be capable 4WDs.

Add electric motors and a bank of heavy batteries to their 2nd rate suspension and you will find them bogged pretty quickly.

The head of LR has been quoted as saying they are building an electric vehicle.Having drive motors in each wheel has more advantages than not,also not having a gearbox,transfer,drive shalfs,axle housing's,diff's etc would save huge amounts of weight. Pat

[isuzurover]

Hybrids, well it has now been proven beyond doubt that they are a bigger environmental threat and cause more damage than the average 10-15 year old diesel or v8 petrol.



Where and by whom?

I am not a fan of hybrids, but the only study I have seen which purported to show this (prius vs hummer LCA) was seriously flawed and has been since repeated by reputable independant sources which show the prius is indeed better.

Prius batteries have a warranty of 8 years or 160k km and only cost about US$6k to replace.

There is no reason a prius couldn't do 20 years with one battery replacement.

Now if you were to say that there are vehicles in the same size class as the prius which have the same or lower average fuel consumption (AS/ISO test), then they must by definition be better for the environment, then I would agree with you.

A prius vs a V8 for city commuting /traffic - the prius wins hands down.

[PAT303]

Funny enough I had my D1 V8 on LPG in Kalgoorlie and a friend of ours had a Prius and there wasn't much in it running cost wise. Pat

[isuzurover]

Funny enough I had my D1 V8 on LPG in Kalgoorlie and a friend of ours had a Prius and there wasn't much in it running cost wise. Pat

"wasn't much difference" or didn't cost much to run the prius?

When I was in cairns a while back I noticed most of the taxis were priuses. I asked one cab driver, and he said he was saving quite a lot in fuel over the camry on LPG he had before the prius. I think the figure he quoted was $300/wk+

[Hoges]

Similar experience in Cairns...the cab had over 150k km on the clock and was still on the original batteries and was VERY quiet...I was impressed. The driver reckoned that they're OK in Cairns because most of his running is on the flat...v few hills compared with Brisbane etc...

[Hymie]

Funny enough I had my D1 V8 on LPG in Kalgoorlie and a friend of ours had a Prius and there wasn't much in it running cost wise. Pat

Bet there was a huge environmental difference in recyclablity and time of life cost between the two.