Sand Driving

[Snowmn]

Can anyone help me out with tips for driving in sand as I have never done this before?

The reason is I have just been given a job to do in Saudi Arabia in about three months time and will be renting some sort of 4WD and am going to try and get out into the dessert at least a couple of times. I've driven around the Middle East quite a few times but only on road or over the mountains being mainly rock.

Oh yes. I do know this has the potential to end in tears:o but 50 degrees and no beer makes Snowmn a dull boy :p

[DEFENDERZOOK]

yep.....air down.......

depending on how soft the sand is.......you may need to go as low as 12psi.....
avoid sharp turns as you may peel the tyre from the rim with the low pressures.......

high range is usually ok.......but you can use low range......its more of a personal preference......

[spudboy]

If you have anything new/upmarket like a Rangie, make sure you turn off the DSC (Stability control). Toyota probably have an equivalent acronym.

With DSC on , the computer cuts power just when you want it, as it thinks you are losing control.....

But, as DZ has said, tyre pressures are the main thing. If you have something classy like a Defender, make sure you lock the centre differential - makes a big difference.

[JayBoRover]

Remember "momentum is your friend". Up, down, flat, it matters not. Avoid coming to a complete stop and think very carefully about how you're going to get going again before allowing yourself to stop.

The other thing I would say about driving over there, is go with others that know the areas. There are many traps in the dunes like sink holes, both natural and man made, and there are some things you just don't want to run into. A beat up old camel can very quickly become a most precious and extremely valuable show camel when a foreigner or ex-pat hits it! Also the security guys that look after the pipeline tracks can get pretty septic pretty quickly - as can camel farmers and you'll be amazed at where you'll run into these guys!

I'll be in the dunes out of Liwa in the UAE in early April to race the 2011 Abu Dhabi Desert Challenge - round 1 of the FIM World Cross Country Rally Championships.:burnrubber: (Of course I'll be hanging onto handlebars, not a steering wheel).

Cheers
John B

[Snowmn]

Mostly it's either a new Pajero or a ford explorer, so I think DSC is more likely, I wouldn't have thought about that.

[Snowmn]

Thanks JB good advice, I've run into that kind of trouble before in Lebanon just after the last conflict when we tried to get a Kia Sportage in and out of a bomb crater that someone had left in the middle of the highway.

[dullbird]

my advice to you would be to go out and sand drive with some experienced people BEFORE going ;)

[lebanon]

Thanks JB good advice, I've run into that kind of trouble before in Lebanon just after the last conflict when we tried to get a Kia Sportage in and out of a bomb crater that someone had left in the middle of the highway.

Hi,

where was that?

[Snowmn]

Hi, I had to go check the spelling on the map, it was somewhere between Tyre and Naqoura, we were checking out the damage to homes as we specialize in reconstruction after as Tony Abott says '**** happens'.

[d2dave]

I've only ever done it once, which was with the LROCV. One thing I learnt was when stopping brake very gradually. If you stop with too much brake force you bury the front wheels in the sand making it hard to restart. If you stop gently the front wheels will be on top of the sand which will make restarting easier.

The other thing I decided was to never go without another vehicle. If you get stuck it could be very hard getting out, and as we were on beaches we had tides to worry about.

I would assume this to not be a problem where you are going.

Dave.

[Snowmn]

Thanks for the advice, the more info that's coming in, the more I realize that driving in sand is an art form all of it's own. I must confess I don't do any half serious off roading with only one vehicle, it's just not worth it when something happens.

[d2dave]

I must confess I don't do any half serious off roading with only one vehicle, it's just not worth it when something happens.

In my opinion this depends on the consequences of being stuck. If you are not in a life threatening situation it does not matter. If you go out in the desert on your own and get stuck and you have enough water(and some food) to see you out until rescue you are ok.

Having said this it is irresponsible to go out without the proper gear and then tie up resources helping you.

Dave.

[PhilipA]

You will find that there is not that much sand in Saudi.
Most of the desert is gravel and rock. The biggest areas of sand are in the empty quarter south of Riyadh.
Some hints
Take LOTS of water because debogging in sand in 45-50C uses a lot of water.
Take Maxtrax or have sand ladders made as the sand in the dunes is much softer than anything in Australia. Tie a 2metre coloured rope onto the sand ladder as they can get buried up to a metre. The hardest sand is just behind the crest/ridge of the dune and the softest in the depression just before the next dune when one dune is immediately behind the other.

When you are driving down a wadi, just remember that even though most saltbushes are hollow some have a little hill of sand in the middle just high enough to jag the steering . Ask me how I know.

Do not go directly down the face of a high dune if there is gravel at the bottom, as the angle may mean you nose in. Although you see the hoons in UAE going down dunes it is not a good idea if you want to keep going.
If you are working towards an objective work along the swales of dunes to find the lowest cross over point.
Go with someone else. I once lost a fuel pump on a pipeline service road in the middle of nowhere. I had a spare but filled my eyes with fuel changing it.
If you don't buy a new car change the hoses and belt(s) every spring.
Regards Philip A

[Snowmn]

Think I might do a rece on the first trip and set something more serious up for later, I've got three trips to Saudi this year.

[cols110]

I've been living out this way for a while now here are some pic's from Oman & the UAE.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/international-reports/122621-oman-uae.html

My advise is to pick your lease vehicle carefully, a Vagero and Exploder are not renowned in the dunes, do your best to get your hands on a 4.0lt prado if possible as they are very good. A lot of guys who keep them on long term leases fit something like an OME lift, larger tyres etc then take em back to std when they return them, if your there for quite some time that is what I would recommend.

As for the sand team up with other expats who know what they are doing, driving in sand is not rocket science, especially if you already know the basics of driving a 4x4. The hardest thing most newbies have is finding the confidence to go over crests fast enough to not get crested, once you realise on the other side of each dune the slip face is only going to be a max gradient of 45-50 degrees you will be fine and start going over them without worrying.

You will best pick it up driving in convoy with more experience drivers who know the best line to pick, following this way for some time will build confidence of what you can & cant do and how to slide along slip faces etc when need be to keep you out of the bottom of big bowls, staying away from obsticles or just keeping height when climbing a big multi pitch dune.

It will take quite some time before you get the experience leading in big technical dunes as you are driving with one eye on a GPS, reading the dunes in the distance to pick you line in the distance as well as reading the terrain right in front of you.

As others have mentioned TC is not your friend in the sand it just saps your power when you need it most.

Make sure you have a shovel, the best compressor you can buy, tyres press gauge, deflators such as Stauns etc, good snatch strap, rated shackles, and maxtrax or similar sand ladders. As for GPS dont get to worried with something flash with toppo maps etc as you wont get the mapping software out there. The most popular no **** GPS most people use here is a Garmin 276c, you can buy ME maps for them, they are a marine GPS so are well protected from dust, vibrations etc, and have nice buttons to use on the move, there is nothing worse than trying to use a touch screen whilst on the move in the sand trying to find your next way point.

Deflating is the secret go straight to 12/13 and lower if need be for seriously soft sand, then deflate again once your tyres heat up as the pressure will creep up to 15/16 and you will find you start struggling, some wheel/tyre combos work better than others, for some reason Patrols & Prados break the bead quite easily at 12/14psi with newer drivers who are heavy handed on the steering wheel, but with a bit of practice re-seating the bead is done pretty quickly with the wheel still on the car.

JayBoRover, let me know your number in the DC as I will be a part of the sweep team, I will be in a green 110 driving around the course somewhere helping out those in need, and will be in the bivoac every night once we finished for the day. I have quite a few friend racing both cars and bikes. Last year we were doing mainly bike recovery. Flag me down for a chat some time during the week if you get the chance.

[JayBoRover]

JayBoRover, let me know your number in the DC as I will be a part of the sweep team, I will be in a green 110 driving around the course somewhere helping out those in need, and will be in the bivoac every night once we finished for the day. I have quite a few friend racing both cars and bikes. Last year we were doing mainly bike recovery. Flag me down for a chat some time during the week if you get the chance.

A whole heap of good advice there. (Token gesture at staying within the thread topic;))
It looks like they'll let me have the same number I had last year - #19. I probably saw you last year but I didn't have a Land Rover then. Now I've got three of the damn things! LOL:D
I've booked a spot on the UAE-KTM service support program being managed by Tim Trenker. I hope I'll catch up with you some time, as opposed to you catching up with me! I'll be trying to avoid having the sweeps catch me!!
Cheers
John B

[popemobile]

Lots of advice given....i may be repeating others but the things i have learned....


Centre diff lock engaged on a permanent four wheel drive can actually hinder you when turning tight on soft sand as the vehicle tends to dig badly. I tend to leave the centre locker out if flotation is the aim but in if traction is an issue.


Braking is best done by coasting and not using the stop pedal much, if u do, use it gently or youll bury yourself.

Avoid big side slopes, particularly if you stop. Often after the vehicle stops flotation changes and the surrounding sand continues to move after you have stopped. This can result in your vehicle tipping over after you have apparently stopped safely. Generally, if a vehicle can go to say 40%side slope on rock or firm surface, this angle should NOT be approached on a shifting surface like sand. Dont learn this one the hard way.

Tyre pressures are a big key, but keep in mind what speeds you plan to do and monitor tyre temps carefully and avoid silly cornering if you drop the pressures much.

Tyres that are too bald for many other applications can work well in sand, a rounded shouldered carcass can help.

Always know whats on the other side of that climb before punting your 4bie over that summit! There are some awesome sheer drops that can naturally occur in sand, particularly on the lee wind side of sand dunes. Flags help with visibility of other vehicles near summits too.....

Theres lots more, but thats my 2 cents worth.

Happy duning

Daniel

[lebanon]

My advices:

-Avoid mid-day driving as the sand gets softer.
-Use the diff-lock when needed, most of the time you don't.
-Try to stop the car nose down on any available light slope, this will make you gain momentum when you drive again.
-Do not use aggressive tires as they tend to dig-in( I have seen Bedouins driving up the dunes with rear-wheel drive cars equipped with slick tires)
-Do not venture alone, go with someone who knows the area and inform other on the direction you will be taking and your ETD and ETA.

Enjoy it

[cols110]

A whole heap of good advice there. (Token gesture at staying within the thread topic;))
It looks like they'll let me have the same number I had last year - #19. I probably saw you last year but I didn't have a Land Rover then. Now I've got three of the damn things! LOL:D
I've booked a spot on the UAE-KTM service support program being managed by Tim Trenker. I hope I'll catch up with you some time, as opposed to you catching up with me! I'll be trying to avoid having the sweeps catch me!!
Cheers
John B

Sweet, all the best for it, let me know if your number changes, I'll take a wonder through the KTM camp and try to track you down one night, I'll only be down there for the 5 days in the desert due to work commitments, cant make the prologue etc.

[JDNSW]

As everyone else has commented - tyre pressures, drive smoothly, and keep moving (pick where you are planning to stop with restarting in mind - never on uphill slope). Avoid if possible backing down hill!

John

[tempestv8]

Don't forget to engage the CDL when you are in really soft sand, off the road if the vehicle is equipped with a user selectable CDL.

It will help to distribute the torque between the front and rear axles, and lessen the chance of one wheel spinning.

Bring a long handed shovel and maybe an exhaust jack from Australia! :p

[boofdtl]

Hope this helps you and have fun the sand is great


YouTube - 4WD Action - Sand Driving Tips from Bruce Garland - presented by Isuzu D-MAX

YouTube - Driving on sand - Ray Mears Extreme Survival - BBC

[ramblingboy42]

this months 4wd action mag has a fairly good beach driving article in it .....as well as .....surprisingly some other good articles .....if you like toymotas and missings.