re-setting springs

[series1buff]

My 80" suffers from the typical droopy drivers side rear spring . Because the diff is off-set and the petrol tank and driver are added weight.. that spring apparently has a different load ratiing on that side . The parts book has a different number for drivers and pass. rear springs.

240 AC put me onto this idea. I bought a cheap pipe bender and had a go at re-setting the spring . Will post photos soon.

you dissasemble the spring and bend each leaf individually . Before bending , lay down the leaf and scribe a line with chalk , this line is your reference to see how far you have bent .

DONT bend near the centre hole as this is a weak point .

I've done the main leaf so far.. the pipe bender does it easily .. But be gentle until you get the "feel" of how far to go .

I dont know the physics of bending spring steel cold, somebody here will no doubt

MIKE

[isuzurover]

The driver and passenger side springs on landies don't have different "load ratings" (or spring rate if that is what you meant) - they have the same spring rate, just a different "free camber" side to side (your line in the chalk).

I have never heard of resetting springs using a pipe bender?

However I have done it using a sledgehammer and anvil. Bayside springs use a hydraulic press.

Make sure you set each leaf to a slightly greater free camber to the leaf above.

If you want them to remain at the new height, you need to heat them up with an oxy once reassembled as a pack. not too hot, just until they start to change coloue.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Mike

I thought you also had to re-tension the spring by heating and quenching to keep the new set in the leaf?

Diana

[series1buff]

Mike

I thought you also had to re-tension the spring by heating and quenching to keep the new set in the leaf?

Diana

The professionals first heat up the spring , it becomes easier to bend ..... then they re-set/bend it as a whole pack , and then they finally temper the spring again with heat so it becomes springy again ...

I'm experimenting really .

I used to use JACOBS spring works in Melbourne , but they no longer exist I believe. They did large truck springs .

I would be very wary of applying heat without knowing the exact temp.

MIKE

[series1buff]

. Bayside springs use a hydraulic press.

Make sure you set each leaf to a slightly greater free camber to the leaf above.

.

OK thanks .. yes a pipe bender is a hydraulic press I guess

[isuzurover]

The professionals first heat up the spring , it becomes easier to bend ..... then they re-set/bend it as a whole pack , and then they finally temper the spring again with heat so it becomes springy again ...

No they don't. I have watched Bayside spring works reset mine. There is no way you can properly reset springs without dissassembling the packs.

They disassemble the packs, reset each leaf individually on a hydraulic press (each leaf slightly more camber than the last), then reassemble the packs, then heat up (no quench). This is basically a tempering process after the cold reset, and removes stress induced by the reset and any "memory" in the leaves.

The set they did for me they didn't temper, and they sagged within 12 months. They then redid them and tempered them the 2nd time (plus a front pair). That was done in 1998 and the springs are still fine today - despite LOTS of 4x4ing and carting 1.5 tonne loads of firewood.

[series1buff]

No they don't. I have watched Bayside spring works reset mine. There is no way you can properly reset springs without dissassembling the packs.

They disassemble the packs, reset each leaf individually on a hydraulic press (each leaf slightly more camber than the last), then reassemble the packs, then heat up (no quench). This is basically a tempering process after the cold reset, and removes stress induced by the reset and any "memory" in the leaves.

The set they did for me they didn't temper, and they sagged within 12 months. They then redid them and tempered them the 2nd time (plus a front pair). That was done in 1998 and the springs are still fine today - despite LOTS of 4x4ing and carting 1.5 tonne loads of firewood.

There is more than one way to skin a cat .JACOBS used to re-set in the whole pack . It wouldn't have been economically viable for them to do each leaf individually... would have taken hours to do just one spring , they used to do large truck springs aon a massive press they had . They used a hot process when bending , not cold .
This summary is useful

Spring steel is characterized more by its metalurgy than the tempering. There are many grades of steel and spring steel, all of which have varied carbon content and alloys to give it whatever properties it needs. The tempering provides the correct degree of hardness to let it spring properly, just as correct tempering and annealing makes tool steel approriately tough for its task. Too soft it will not hold its shape, too hard it can break too easily.

Bending cold will be difficult with any larger guage material. Cold bending can also lead to weakness as you are forcing the metal past its working point in order for it to hold the new shape. Bending always adds hardness to the metal which may not be desireable (think of bending a piece of metal repeatedly until it breaks).

Heating to bend will be easier to work, but you will need to retemper it. This will ultimately yield a better end result if the spring will be in a use that requires it to do a lot of work. Tempering though is not a simple task for a casual home do-it-yourselfer; it involves fairly exact heating and quenching to get it right. If the portion that you need to bend is not the actual working part of the spring, ie: the eye on a leaf spring, the tempering may not be as critical.

So it really comes down to what you are making the spring for, how durable it needs to be, and whether or not you can bend it cold.. ful:

[isuzurover]

[SIZE="3"]There is more than one way to skin a cat .JACOBS used to re-set in the whole pack . It wouldn't have been economically viable for them to do each leaf individually...

There may be more than one way to skin a cat, but not all of them are correct.

Sorry but that is dodgy, and would likely shorten the life of the springs and/or increase the stress in the main leaf. I still can't see how they can reset a spring pack as a whole with the clamps still on, and to remove and refit the clamps you need to disassemble the packs.

Then springs are manufactured they are hot rolled to the correct free camber - individually. Whether you are doing a hot or cold reset, it doesn't take much time to disassemble a pack and do the leaves individually.

When I designed my spring packs I had a copy of the SAE leaf spring design manual for automotive engineers. It discussed how and why each leaf needs a higher free camber than the leaf above it - which is not possible if you reset the whole pack in one go.

[series1buff]

I just checked and it looks like JACOBS is still there in OAKLEIGH ...

If my home back yard method doesn't work in the long run ( likely ) ..... I'll take the spring to them to do it .

They have been in business since Jesus was a boy .

[isuzurover]

They have been in business since Jesus was a boy .

Funny you should mention hey-zoos - the biggest conman in human history...

Jacobs manufacture ironman suspension AFAIK - I would be very supprised if they don't reset springs properly as they have all the gear. They certainly couldn't do parabolics like that.

EDIT:
Here is a pic from westralia springs in perth of them doing a hot reset. Notice they have taken the springs apart (pic shows a single main leaf).
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/638.jpg


But you are free to believe whatever you want - including that some buy who lived a long time ago was the son of a deity and not some random schizophrenic.

[dennisS1]

Not into right or wrong but I have reset the springs for a number of S1 over the past years and have found no difference between hot or cold (except burnt hands) before set or after. All I do is bend them to the shape I want with a press over a sort distance of the spring one leaf at a time. Slightly more as you work down the pack. The press or pipe bender is a lot easier than a hammer.
Go a little more than spec but not to much.
When old narrow thin 80"springs are involved, I take a good thick long leaf say off the back of a long wheelbase and cut down to size to replace 2 of the thin leaves this makes the old pack stand up nice.
Dennis

[isuzurover]

The press or pipe bender is a lot easier than a hammer.

No arguments there!

I just mentioned it as an option for those who don't have a press.

A friend of mine did all his 80" springs with a hammer. I tried a 4.2 mm series front leaf and that went fine, but then I did the main leaf of a military/HD rear - 7.1 mm thick leaf - that was enough to convince me to pay Bayside springs to do it.

[123rover50]

I reset the rear springs on Tristan the Tickford with a small sledge and a tree stump with a hollow in it. Keeping each lower leaf with slightly more camber. Greased them with moly grease on assembly. Sat the two packs sid.e by side and put the one with most camber on the drivers side.
Its a heavy little truck and that bought it up level fore and aft but still needs a little more camber on the RHS. the difference was only 1/2" free camber. Perhaps 1" would have been better.

[digger]

Funny you should mention hey-zoos - the biggest conman in human history...

<<<snip>>> <<<<snip>>>But you are free to believe whatever you want - including that some buy who lived a long time ago was the son of a deity and not some random schizophrenic.

really? does a throw away comment like "since Jesus was a boy" really have to be stretched out like this? I believe there is a thread to play with this on the soapbox, I think its poor form really in a non soapbox thread to start this kind of stuff... and yes people are free to believe whatever they like ....except obviously when you feel like baiting a bit... rant over =sorry for the thread hijack! - it is a good and useful thread..mostly.

[chazza]

I agree with Digger, let us stick to the subject of Land Rovers please :)

[vnx205]

I agree with Digger, let us stick to the subject of Land Rovers please :) -except in the Soap Box and General Chat and the Janome Sewing Machine Forum. :D

I did my Series III front springs about 25 years ago with the sledge hammer method on individual leaves. I only aimed for a small improvement. It did the job.

[isuzurover]

really? does a throw away comment like "since Jesus was a boy" really have to be stretched out like this? I believe there is a thread to play with this on the soapbox, I think its poor form really in a non soapbox thread to start this kind of stuff... and yes people are free to believe whatever they like ....except obviously when you feel like baiting a bit... rant over =sorry for the thread hijack! - it is a good and useful thread..mostly.

I was trying to use the analogy that just because something (company/belief) has been around a long time, doesn't mean it is true/correct/the right way to do things.

e.g. Ansett was around for a VERY long time before their poor fleet purchasing/management caused them to go under.

Apologies if it caused offence.

Btw - I don't believe the spring works in question would actually reset springs as a pack without dismantling. Unless they do both (a) cheap and nasty resets and (b) proper resets.

[4x4_bugsy]

Go for it! Dont waste money where you can save it by a few hours work.

I was let in on this method by a guy who owned a 4wd shop on the Gold Coast. He reckoned it was the same as if a spring shop did it and I agree!

I have done this many times and it works a treat! The only problem with doing it to a rover is that there is so many darn leaves...
1. Stand each spring pack up and measure the height first so you can compare them to the finished product.
2. I separate the packs into individual leaves and reset each pair (one from each side) after each other, comparing them as I go to get them as close as possible.(aside from the obvious difference required for each side)
3. Put a mark on the side of the bender so you jack it up to the same spot each time. Take care not to go too far or the leaf could end up kinked. Also, the time the leaf is left in tension is important. If it is left longer, the finished bend is more pronounced and probably would last longer due to its memory being retained. each leaf should not be bent in one go but in 3 or more stages across the length of the leaf.
4. When you assemble the packs, grease them liberally between the leaves so they dont bind up making the spring unnecessarily stiff.

I did this on an old series 3 SWB years ago and it ended up having the softest, smoothest ride I have ever had in a series truck. Lots of body roll though. It felt like an old range rover!

I used a pipe bender too with a ten ton hydraulic jack for power.

[wrinklearthur]

Hi All
After seeing many times, how easy springs can break, particularly breaking during severe frost's, including on a vehicle sitting in a shed overnight during the frost.
I would, as a matter of safety, only have work done to my springs by a reputable company, that have the correct equipment and knowledge to complete the job.
The striking of cold, tempered steel causes stresses within the material and that is where the breaks occur.
Cheers Arthur

[series1buff]

I suppose it depends to some degree , on how rare the springs are. If it's a common item, there isn't much to lose. I mean, Land Rover springs are not really rare . I've got 3-4 sets of 80" springs , gathered from wrecks . Somebody used WW2 Jeep springs on a 80" , don't know exactly how .

If I was restoring a 1920 odd ball car, then yes, I would be ultra carefull with the springs, not experimenting .

Mike








'

[Aaron IIA]

I thought early 80" springs were the same as WWII Jeep springs. Or is that just the width?

Aaron.

[series1buff]

I thought early 80" springs were the same as WWII Jeep springs. Or is that just the width?

Aaron.

Aaron

I think the width is OK ..... you could use the shorter leaves probably . The main leaf has different sized bush diameter. You could turn up some sleeves for the LR type bush maybe .

Not sure about length and camber , but its worth investigating .

Mike

[groucho]

WW2 GPW spring top 80" spring bottom
Spose someone could mak them fit with a BIG hammer. Too short and spring eye too small.....




https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/301.jpg

[series1buff]

WW2 GPW spring top 80" spring bottom
Spose someone could mak them fit with a BIG hammer. Too short and spring eye too small.....




https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/301.jpg

OK thats settles that !!!!

[digger]

WW2 GPW spring top 80" spring bottom
Spose someone could mak them fit with a BIG hammer. Too short and spring eye too small.....




https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/301.jpg

the relationship is there though isnt it, very similar sizes etc!
(see the liniage) cheers
digger