Mad Man

[mools]

I'm the maddest man alive right now.

I've spent a few hour over the last two weeks installing a Mad Man EMS2 system - I made quite a good job of it. I'm really pleased with the fit in the dash I and even re-located the fuel gauge neatly.

Any way I finally got round to having a garage tap the exhaust manifold to locate the EGT Pyrometer - I don't have any tapps and wasn't too confident about drilling into the casting, and also install the oil pressure sender while they were at it. I specifically asked them - can you do it properly? 'oh year we've done loads of them'. So...

Picked it up this evening and drove it home. To my horror there had been oil ****ing out of the engine on the way home. An inspection revealed that it was the turbo feed - idiots hadn't tightened it up properly. So I checked all the fitting on the turbo to make sure that there weren't more cock ups. I think I've got away with it because the oil level is about minimum on the stick - could've been a lot worse though and I don't like to think about what may have happened to the oil starved turbo. The Pyrometer also wobbles in the hole they badly tapped and covered up with a load of (now cindered) locktite (or some other gunk) - such a crap job I'm surprised the bloke who did it can sleep at night - I don't understand how anyone can be so useless. Should've done the job myself.

I'm one Mad Man now I tell you! And there going to feel that when I get down there tomorrow morning for my money back. Idiots.

Anyway the point of the post, other than never ever, ever consider taking your landy to ******* (landrover service center), the EMS 2 has alarm functions for the sensors - what would people suggest setting these at?

Oil pressure, EGT, coolant temp and transfere box temp - what's normal - or rather abnormal or more importantly critical for a TD5 defender. Mine's running with no EGR, a BD chip and larger intercooler - what sort of readings should be telling me to ease off a bit?

Any suggestions from experience gladly received.

I'm going back to being mad now.

[pop058]

it will be interesting to hear what the service agent has to say about the "proper job"

[windsock]

The Pyrometer also wobbles in the hole they badly tapped and covered up with a load of (now cindered) locktite (or some other gunk)

The two pyrometer thermocouple probes I have installed have had a tapered fitting requiring a special tap to do a tapered thread. They may have used a straight tap. This'd lead to a sloppy fitting. It took me a few hours to track down a tool shop that stocked the right thread and taper.

Hope you sort it.

[CraigE]

The two pyrometer thermocouple probes I have installed have had a tapered fitting requiring a special tap to do a tapered thread. They may have used a straight tap. This'd lead to a sloppy fitting. It took me a few hours to track down a tool shop that stocked the right thread and taper.

Hope you sort it.

Hey Windsock can you list the thread brand and model/serial number. May be worth putting in the good oil.
Cheers
CraigE

[mools]

Well,

showed the service manager the problems. I made the point of how close I (he) was to a completely ruined engine and that if I did my job like his staff do theirs people would die and I'd get the sack - he was very emmbarrased as he should be - I hope he sacks the guy who did it but I can bet he wont.

A new manifold is being fitted as he agreed they'd properly ruined mine, they'll put in the rest of the oil and check over the work - not that will stop me having to check it again.

He agreed I shouldn't have to pay for it but supprisingly (since I already have) he won't give me a refund - says he can't but will give me a credit note (like I'll ever be going back!) - I suppose I could use it against parts.

Thinking of starting a thread on crap gararges (from experience not reputation) - would this be allowed? is there already one out there? or is it just too much of a miserable thread - I guess everyone has their story about this don't they. Having now seen that the name of the gararge has now been removed by a moderator I'd say there no real point in doing this.

Anyway not any answers to my real question as yet - alarm settings for a TD5 engine....

Anyone?

I'm still mad though!

[Ranga]

As much as we'd all love to name and shame dodgy dealers/suppliers etc, it's a legal minefield and definitely not worth the trouble and risk. If people are interested enough, you can share you're knowledge via PM or email.

[windsock]

Hey Windsock can you list the thread brand and model/serial number. May be worth putting in the good oil.
Cheers
CraigE

Hey CraigE,

Sure but I am over here in NZ so it may differ markedly in availability over there. Likewise it may differ between manufacturers. I use the VDO thermocouple.

It is a 1/4" NPT.

Numbers on the Tap are:
1/4" NPT HSSE V4747+

On the box it came in are the numbers and writing:
FEW Cutting Tools
0840400
1/4"NPT BF BOT
ISO2284 C0320

Hope that helps any.

Cheers,

Phil

[abaddonxi]

As has been said before, it's how they make up for the mistakes that shows a good mechanic.

[mools]

How they make up for the mistakes, thats customer service; not making the mistakes in the first place is the mark of a good mechanic.

Still no answers to my question - alarm settings for a TD5 engine....

[Bent Series]

Hey Mools,
In light of current world and domestic issues right now I reckon an oil leak and major inconvienience won't actually kill you. Spare a thought for our brothers over the ditch or a bit closer to home. Yes they stuffed it up, yes your mad we get that, yes they offered to fix it. Your still posting so your still breathing. Justmy 2 cents. Maybe I'm wrong. Regards John.

[mools]

Hey John,

your not wrong, your right; I don't reckon an oil leak on the turbo feed would've killed me - just my engine. You are also quite right that in light of current world and domestic issues my engine could be considered to be small cookies - but I don't ever remember stating anything to the contry.

Still thanks for taking time out from the big issues to share your two cents with me on this thread. I'm sure there are plenty of other threads on this forum which would also benifit from your balanced view.

As for the reason I'm still posting; that's because I still want to find out what the critical thresholds for a TD5 engine are (fluid temp, EGT, Oil pressure, Transfere box temp). Why? So I can put these values in to my Mad Man EMS unit to alert me should a malfunction occur.

So if anyone knows these thresholds or want's to share an opinion on them please feel free, afterall this was the question I raised in my original post. If not then that's fine too but please can we try and keep this on topic?

Thanks.

[Naks]

what sort of readings should be telling me to ease off a bit?

My Mad Man settings are quite conservative:

EGT - 650C
Oil Pressure - 1 bar
Transfer box - 90C
Coolant - 110C

Do you have the coolant level detector fitted as well? It's a must on the Td5!

Oh, and I always let the landy idle until the EGT is down to 160-170 before switching off :)

[mools]

Thanks Naks just what I was after.

I've not fitted the coolant level sensors (screws) yet but it's all wired up for them - just have to get a moment or two. I intend to fit these pretty low in the header tank - My coolant doesn't seem to stay at the 'full' level but finds a level about 10mm lower and seems happy there - if I put more in it regresses to this level anyway. I figure I'll mount the sensor abot 10mm below this.

Oil P and transfer box T values sound appropriate - ever have many high T alarmes on the box?

The 650 C fot the EGT is a concern though. I've noticed that I can reach this in about 15 to 20 seconds of hard acceleration and relatively easily on a steepish hill in 5th without labouring the engine. In fact I have my alarm at 720 (the default it came with) and over the last few days have noticed that I set it off regularly. I think the re-map I have is a bit fuel rich. Time to change my driving style! I have been told in the past that 750 is the design limit for the TD5 but havn't had that verified.

Anyway, I have some values to start with there and I'll see how it goes.

Thanks again.

Mools

[Naks]

Oil P and transfer box T values sound appropriate - ever have many high T alarmes on the box?

Nope, but then again I haven't been doing much offroad driving lately :(



The 650 C fot the EGT is a concern though....I have been told in the past that 750 is the design limit for the TD5 but havn't had that verified.

I'm quite conservative, I plan to keep this landy for at least 20yrs :angel:

The general conscensus in SA is that the Td5 can run for limited periods at 720C max. Extended periods at this temp will cause irreversible damage to the engine. Most Td5 owners here set theirs to 650C.

We have only seen this once on the Puma - fully loaded SWAMBO decided to tackle a long uphill climb in 6th. When the alarm went off, she dropped a gear and the temp went down by 50C+ :eek:

[mools]

We have only seen this once on the Puma - fully loaded SWAMBO decided to tackle a long uphill climb in 6th. When the alarm went off, she dropped a gear and the temp went down by 50C+ :eek:


Jeez, I drop from 4th to 5th and knock about 100 C off.... Like I said though - time to change the driving style.

[joel0407]

I'm needing help and suggestions how to fit the Auto Tranmission temp sensor. The addaptor provided by Land Online is too big for the sump and too small for the filler plug.

Help Please.

[gavinwibrow]

Not what you want to hear, but the local expert says best option is to weld an as near as horizontal as possible nut at the bottom rear of the sump and connect to that

[Loubrey]

I'm quite conservative, I plan to keep this landy for at least 20yrs

We have only seen this once on the Puma - fully loaded SWAMBO decided to tackle a long uphill climb in 6th. When the alarm went off, she dropped a gear and the temp went down by 50C+ :eek:

Naks,

Have you noticed any distinct difference in the EGT with and without the BAS remap loaded? I assume the temp fluctuation descibed above was with the BAS remap?

Cheers,

Lou

[Naks]

Have you noticed any distinct difference in the EGT with and without the BAS remap loaded? I assume the temp fluctuation descibed above was with the BAS remap?

Hi Lou,

The 'incident' above was with the OEM map. As soon as I switch to the BAS map, the EGTs are *much* lower, by the order of 30-60C.

The BAS map results in lower EGTs because:
- engine is now operating more efficiently
- EGR is permanently closed

Since the remap I have fitted an Alisport intercooler, and EGTs came down a further 20-30C. I have also removed the cat's innards and seen a further decrease in EGTs, but only slightly.

To give you an idea, the last stretch home is on a flat road with 60kmh limit - with speed cameras, so I always drive at 60kmh on the speedo. On the factory map, EGTs are at 330-340C. With the BAS remap, EGTs are at 270-280C.

[Naks]

One thing I forgot to mention about the BAS map is that over the 2 years/30,000km that I have been running it, it has paid itself off in terms of fuel savings. :D

[Loubrey]

One thing I forgot to mention about the BAS map is that over the 2 years/30,000km that I have been running it, it has paid itself off in terms of fuel savings. :D

Hi Naks,

What's your ball park consumption figures before and after? I've only really noticed about a 0.6 km/ liter improvement (over 5 tanks and city driving) and at Australian fuel prices that will take years to justify the actual cost of the Map if that was the intent1:D:twisted:

I'm aware of the astronomical price rises of fuel in the RSA and I can imagine 30 odd kilometers per tank will add up eventually or have you seen better figures?

I still run the original intercooler and Cat so if the cooler engine temps as per your earlier post is more efficient it might improve the consumption more?

Cheers,

Lou

[Naks]

What's your ball park consumption figures before and after?

Before the map consumption was around 11-12l/100km. With the remap and driving it much harder than before, I am now getting between 9.1-10.1l/100km.

So a saving of approx 2l/100km, which equates to around 600L of diesel, and at recent fuel prices here, that's 1.5 times what I paid for the remap :)


If your landy is still under warranty, I would start by drilling out the cat's innards - LR will not suspect anything, it's not like they will check for this. Later you can add the intercooler.

[Loubrey]

Nah, out of warranty 20 April this year, so I've started playing...

Mine was getting a solid 10 km/liter (+/- 0.2) with the standard map and it's now down to around 9.5 or a fraction less. I've not had it on the open road yet as its only been 3 weeks and my averages are to work and back in traffic.

Just a matter of time for the intercooler and a bespoke decat pipe. You need to remove the cat section to mess with the innards? If so, sounds like a lot of work and might as well look at the decat pipe.

Defender 2.4 Puma Decat Down Pipe (http://www.mudsport.co.uk/index.php/tuning/defender-2-4-puma-decat-down-pipe.html)

PM500 | Stainless Steel DeCat Pipe - Defender Puma TDCI (http://www.paddockspares.com/pm500-stainless-steel-decat-pipe-defender-puma-tdci.html)

Accessories and Performance Upgrades for Land Rover Vehicles | Terrafirma Serious 4x4 Accessories (http://www.terrafirma4x4.com/search_results.php?cat=24&grp=127&menuString=ZGUtY2F0)

Defender 2.4 304 Grade Decat pipe (http://www.alivetuning.com/alive-boutique/index.php?route=product/product&filter_name=decat&product_id=138)

The Alive Tuning one would be the best for posting as it comes in two sections to avoid having to remove the cross member. It's double price on the web, but I think shipping might kill the other two. The local Terrafirma supplier unfortunately can't get close to the delivered Alive price...

Cheers,

Lou