D3 lift kit for US$99!

[DiscoMick]

Saw this and thought it looked too good to be true, so thought I'd post it in case anyone was interested. Anyone know?

LR3 Lift Kit - Johnson Rods - Range Rover Sport Lift Kit (http://johnsonrods.com/)

[ADMIRAL]

They are about right. You will pay about the same for locally made rods.

[rmp]

If anyone based in Melbourne would like to check these out there will be a public fitting in a few weeks. We'll also go over the LLAMS height adjustment system. And some tyre repair. And whatever else comes to mind.

[gghaggis]

I'll also be covering these type of accessories at the Melbourne seminar:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/120885-goe-seminar-night-melbourne.html

Cheers,

Gordon

[chuck]

Robert

I am interested.

Regards

Chuck

[rmp]

Well you guys are keen! In response to the PMs and emails the event will be another general get together where we can yarn about our cars. I will demonstrate the LLAMS system which worked very well this morning and the rods. Might well run a trip via the LROCV as well. Date tba and I will post details here.

[Owl]

If anyone based in Melbourne would like to check these out there will be a public fitting in a few weeks. We'll also go over the LLAMS height adjustment system. And some tyre repair. And whatever else comes to mind.


Hey Robert,
Are you holding back on something?

PS - Damn! Should have refreshed the browser before replying!

[rmp]

Not that I know of!

[Greg J]

No, it's not too good to be true. The Johnson Rods are the most affordable and reliable way to lift your LR3 or Sport. They have been used for years with full time use (alignment needed) with no bad effects. The cv joints and bags have been fine and don't break down any more frequently than those without the lift. Plus you can get a wider range of tires selections which is a big plus. I run the 32 inch Goodyear MTR's with Kevlar.

http://johnsonrods.com (http://johnsonrods.com/)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/292.jpg

[trobbo]

how do you find the fuel economy with the bigger tyres Greg and how much do they rub. It looks like there are some scrub marks under the front guard at the rear.

[Greg J]

Well, I have to say that the gas mileage was bad before the tires and not any better with them thats for sure. I get around 12 mpg. The difference is minimal as I run the tires on the road at a higher pressure. However, I would not trade these tires in for more MPG as its hard to put a price on getting back home safely. These tires are excellent. In the US they are one of the top choices for hard core off road use.

Greg

[trobbo]

wow 20 ltrs per hundred :o.

I really hope that is the v8

[~Rich~]

I've had adjustable rods and they work fine, but to be road legal you should swap back to the standard rods when driving day to day. This becomes a pain swapping between the sets of rods with damage to the standard ones a real possibility after a few changes.
If you can afford it definitely purchase a LLAMS height adjuster as it is as easy as turning a knob to get either extra height or drop the vehicle down lower than standard.
Think of it - More clearance to crawl over rocks while also the ability to drop the vehicle to get under fallen trees.
I have the selectable choice of 170mm difference between lowest and highest settings. Not forgetting the additional 25mm if I get grounded!

Graeme is a Land Rover God!
Thanks.

[gghaggis]

To be fair, the rods are not illegal in states where you are allowed a 50mm lift without an engineer's cert. In states where that is not allowed, the LLAMS system is just as illegal, and has other issues.

And some versions of the rods (like mine) completely replace the original rods and give both std and +50 on the one rod, so there is no real risk of damaging the originals, which you can keep for when you want to quickly return the car to original condition.

Both systems have their pro's and con's

Cheers,

Gordon

[isuzurover]

To be fair, the rods are not illegal in states where you are allowed a 50mm lift without an engineer's cert. In states where that is not allowed, the LLAMS system is just as illegal, and has other issues.


This is effectively a suspension lift???

In QLD for example you are allowed to lift the suspension by 1/3 of the (OEM) suspension travel (compression and extension values measured at bump stop). However most people read this as 50 mm rather than calculate the actual value for each vehicle.

I thought most states allowed similar without need for a mod plate or engineering cert? IRC the NCOP - which some states have adopted - allows 50mm suspension + 50 mm body + 50 mm tyres???

[trobbo]

IRC the NCOP - which some states have adopted - allows 50mm suspension + 50 mm body + 50 mm tyres???

I think NCOP is a total of 50mm without engineering and a total of 75mm with engineering. In simple terms this can basically be made up with a combination of tyres, suspension and body lift, with no 1 item being able to exceed 50 mm. For example therefore you could go up from 29 to 31 inch in tyre size and then have 25mm of suspension or body lift.

[gghaggis]

I think NCOP is a total of 50mm without engineering and a total of 75mm with engineering. In simple terms this can basically be made up with a combination of tyres, suspension and body lift, with no 1 item being able to exceed 50 mm. For example therefore you could go up from 29 to 31 inch in tyre size and then have 25mm of suspension or body lift.

That's how I understood it, but there's a lot in the interpretation, so each state authority may provide a slightly different ruling.

Ben - yes, it is effectively a suspension lift, but one that can be returned to normal in around 40sec (or 5sec with the LLAMS!).

Cheers,

Gordon

[rmp]

Fail to see why the LLAMS is illegal.

The 50mm lift limit is not stipulated by the authorities. It is actually 1/3 of suspension travel. 50mm is usually the limit for insurance and a common mild lift before you need extra mods, hence there becomes some myth about regulations. If it was 50mm, then how would a roadcar go with such a lift?

NCOP has been agreed but not implemented and is therefore not law, and therefore not worth considering. The standard being pushed for by various bodies is 75mm total suspension + body, no engineering required. There are or will be some qualifications around that. However, the fact ESC is mandatory will throw a spanner in the works and that issue is being debated right now by the aftermarket industry bodies vs other interested parties with the Vic government looking on rather bemusedly.

[isuzurover]

NCOP has been agreed but not implemented .

AFAIK some states have already adopted the NCOP - WA and SA I believe...

[gghaggis]

Fail to see why the LLAMS is illegal.


m
My point is that between the LLAMS and the replacement rods, neither are any more illegal than the other. When a comment is made that implies that my product (for which I pay as a vendor to advertise on this site) is more illegal than another, I think I have the right to set the record straight?

Cheers,

Gordon

[Graeme]

I see that there are horses for courses for raised height mechanisms. My desire is for extra height at greater than 50 kph that can be set back to normal for on-road use every time I leave or return to my house, plus being able to lower the vehicle below access height, so Llams fits that purpose. I also have the benefit of being able to temporarily switch to off-road height for a known bad depression on a major road to avoid bashing the bump-stops. Other people might want extra height permanently or for long periods only so shortened rods of one form or another is a cheaper and simpler option. Prior to having Llams, I planned to use shortened rods for outback trips but didn't know what I would do about my day-to-day requirement.

I suspect the legalities are less clear-cut given the additional heights already available on the vehicles. What might be the reaction of police or transport authorities if a vehicle was seen being driven, albeit slowly, at super-extended height? I understand that P38's can lock into off-road height to over-ride the auto lowering so why not a D3/D4/RRS even though LR didn't continue with that option? At least with Llams, there's no excuse for not getting back down to on-road height as soon as conditions warrant which may reduce the exposure to being accused of driving with an illegal height modification even though it might not be illegal. "How high, sir?" as he switches over from +50 to off-road mode just in case.

[isuzurover]

m
My point is that between the LLAMS and the replacement rods, neither are any more illegal than the other. When a comment is made that implies that my product (for which I pay as a vendor to advertise on this site) is more illegal than another, I think I have the right to set the record straight?

Cheers,

Gordon

That would seem to be a grey area in the rules (which I think the engineers weren't thinking about).

As I understand it the GOE system gives +0 or +50 mm on all settings, depending on the hole selected?

The other (llams) system simply removes overrides so all settings can be selected at any time??? (so maximum height with lams is 50 mm lower than maximum height using the GOE system?).

However, since you are (as I understand it) able to select the highest suspension setting on a stock standard vehicle on-road (as long as you are travelling slow enough), then it can be argues that the llams system provides 0 lift over standard.

However, the above is all rather academic, as every state in australia basically allows a suspension lift of +50 mm or 1/3 of bump/rebound travel in some way shape or form. In addition, I suspect only a police officer or transport inspector who owns one would be able to tell that the suspension was raised.

I can see the advantage of the +50 mm lift the GOE system provides if you wish to fit larger mud tyres - as it stops you going down to the lowest height where you may scrub the tyres (or is that a moot point?).

[gghaggis]

As Graeme has pointed out, the two systems each meet a specific requirement. I do not believe the shortened rods are illegal in ANY circumstance, but both systems will strain the warranty goodwill of your dealer. The shortened rods are designed to be quickly and easily removed and leave no trace.

In my circumstance (and presumably for others who buy the rods), I simply want the additional 50mm of clearance available at my choice, rather than when the car thinks it's grounded. I have no use for only 30mm of lift, so a single additional height is fine. I certainly don't want the car any lower - I have access height for that.

Due to the +50mm, both systems allow you to drive at over 50kph at what would be the standard 'offroad' height.

It is important to note that neither system allows the car to be raised beyond the maximum that the factory settings allow for. They just let you select greater clearances at times of your own choosing.

Cheers,

Gordon

[Graeme]

The other (llams) system simply removes overrides so all settings can be selected at any time??? (so maximum height with lams is 50 mm lower than maximum height using the GOE system?).

However, since you are (as I understand it) able to select the highest suspension setting on a stock standard vehicle on-road (as long as you are travelling slow enough), then it can be argues that the llams system provides 0 lift over standard.
No, not particularly correct. Llams operates in all height modes so can be selected whilst in off-road mode, although the lift in practice is only around 40mm extra at off-road height, which still equates to super-extended. It attempts to fade-out the extra lift at sensor signal extremes (eg when in extended or super-extended mode) trying to prevent suspension ecu faults that might occur with shocks fully extended yet the ecu thinks from the sensor signals that there should be more height available so might not provide more than super-extended anyway. I don't know if any suspension faults have occurred whilst using Llams +50 and extended or super-extended mode - I haven't been able to induce any yet have had diagonal wheels off the ground. Its heresay, but I have read reports of such faults with shortened rods, whereupon the vehicle lowered and required the standard length rods to be refitted in order to overcome the fault and get the suspension to raise again. Hence Llams might not exceed LR's limits.

[gghaggis]

When rock climbing in severe conditions you can induce a sensor error on the car even with the standard settings. So any height-increasing system will also show such faults. I'd suggest that as most people who drive in those conditions would be likely to fit such systems, you would notice a higher percentage of people with them triggering such faults.

It's not a major fault - it doesn't drop the car to access, merely freezes the height mode you're in. A simple restart once the vehicle is back on (relatively) level ground will reset it.

Cheers,

Gordon

[rmp]

m
My point is that between the LLAMS and the replacement rods, neither are any more illegal than the other. When a comment is made that implies that my product (for which I pay as a vendor to advertise on this site) is more illegal than another, I think I have the right to set the record straight?

Cheers,

Gordon

Relax, of course you do, regardless of vendor status.

However I read it as the LLAMS system being illegal and as I stated, I just cannot see why. If the rods were set to more than 1/3 travel then they may be illegal - but the interesting thing about these cars is that they are actually designed for significant lifts but only at certain speed! The road regs definitely do not deal with that case!

[rmp]

AFAIK some states have already adopted the NCOP - WA and SA I believe...

You could be right, I can't get a straight answer and they had elements of their existing regs in line with NCOP anyway so it's hard to tell. Therefore, the best answer is to ignore NCOP and focus on each state's particular road regulations.

Oh if only we had one simple set of rules Australia wide!!!!

[rmp]

Rods vs LLAMS - pros and cons.

Rods are cheaper, easier to install and remove.

LLAMS is more flexible and easier to operate, but more expensive and more effort to remove entirely although it's not hard to do so.


You won't trigger Extended with diagonal wheels off the ground, you need to lose traction on all four wheels regardless of their contact with the ground. Best way to do that is to high-centre the vehicle.

[Lobster]

When rock climbing in severe conditions you can induce a sensor error on the car even with the standard settings. So any height-increasing system will also show such faults. .........

It's not a major fault ....... merely freezes the height mode you're in. A simple restart once the vehicle is back on (relatively) level ground will reset it.


Hi Gordon.

I was not aware of this interesting error situation.
Can it be induced manually like the timber spacer under the chassis rail trick.
Does it stop the infamous automatic lowering that occurs at that pre-set speed?

[gghaggis]

Hi Gordon.

I was not aware of this interesting error situation.
Can it be induced manually like the timber spacer under the chassis rail trick.
Does it stop the infamous automatic lowering that occurs at that pre-set speed?

I see what you're getting at, but inducing a sensor out-of-range error will require some rather spectacular wheel gymnastics.

It's easier just pulling the fuses when at off-road or extended height. The car will stay at that height, but you'll lose the cross-valving that gives you extra articulation. And eventually the car will sag/lose air, so it's not a long-term solution.

Cheers,

Gordon

[rmp]

Just fitted Johnson rods to a friend's car. Took about 20 minutes as we were going very carefully and it was dark. Used silicone spray and a large screwdriver to remove them. There's definitely a trick to it. Went for a drive and he didn't notice any difference in handling so very happy. He'll get an alignment done very soon.

[gghaggis]

Just fitted Johnson rods to a friend's car. Took about 20 minutes as we were going very carefully and it was dark. Used silicone spray and a large screwdriver to remove them. There's definitely a trick to it. Went for a drive and he didn't notice any difference in handling so very happy. He'll get an alignment done very soon.

Obviously he's looking at a permanent lift?

Cheers,

Gordon

[rmp]

Obviously he's looking at a permanent lift?

Cheers,

Gordon

Nope, because I'll be taking the rods back off him to give to other people to try ;-) That's if I ever see him again, he was pretty chuffed!

[roamer]

He'd be even more chuffed wth the GOE rods, on/off in 30 seconds,faster than my compressor can lift (got a slow one), I can certainly notice handling differnce if I leave it up, back on the tar,if towing the KKaravan gotta go back down, shows you why ya need to have rig level,and how good that trailer anti sway works.
Each to there own, but why would you use rods that compromise on road handling,even the most hardened offroader does more miles on than off road, and in 30 sec you get the best out of the car with GOE.(and GOE are OZ)
LLAMS seems to be a great thing,and I tip my hat to Graeme, but towing just can,t use multi adjustments, unless he can come up with an auto hitch adjuster.

Cheers Ken

[rmp]

He'd be even more chuffed wth the GOE rods, on/off in 30 seconds,faster than my compressor can lift (got a slow one), I can certainly notice handling differnce if I leave it up, back on the tar,if towing the KKaravan gotta go back down, shows you why ya need to have rig level,and how good that trailer anti sway works.
Each to there own, but why would you use rods that compromise on road handling,even the most hardened offroader does more miles on than off road, and in 30 sec you get the best out of the car with GOE.(and GOE are OZ)
LLAMS seems to be a great thing,and I tip my hat to Graeme, but towing just can,t use multi adjustments, unless he can come up with an auto hitch adjuster.

Cheers Ken

I agree, there is a difference at 50mm but he didn't reckon so. I don't have a set of GoE rods but I agree the two-setting design is better, gives an option. The problem with leaving the Johnsons on permanently is the need to wheel-align. I mentioned that handling would be improved with the correct alignment for the height - merely lifting then driving at speed isn't quite fair without a realignment. Problem is then that if you drop back you need another alignment.

[Peter]

I am after a set of GOE rods and have called the mobile and left messages and even set an e-message via the web page without a reply to any attempts.

Can anyone advise why this would be the case?

Thanks in advance.

[TerryO]

I may be giving you a bum steer but I think I read some where on here the other day that Gordon was away on trip. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

cheers,
Terry

[CSBrisie]

Yes, Gordon is on the Canning Stock route I heard - with some Disco's and I assume his RRS; cant wait to hear about the trip when he is back! :)

[Peter]

Thanks guys...

After leaving this post I got a call about 8pm last night as Gordon came back into mobile phone range to clear his voice mail.

Yes he has been away and road testing his rods on a RRS and a couple of Discos.

Thanks for your speedy responses.

Cheers PK

[Redback]

Just fitted Johnson rods to a friend's car. Took about 20 minutes as we were going very carefully and it was dark. Used silicone spray and a large screwdriver to remove them. There's definitely a trick to it. Went for a drive and he didn't notice any difference in handling so very happy. He'll get an alignment done very soon.

Why didn't you buy the GOE rods, seeing as they are local and a Vendor on this site??

Not only that, the GOE rods only take about 2min to fit all four and about the same to remove!!

Price is around the same when you include freight.

Baz.

[oldsalt]

These are also available .... D3 / 4 Lift Kits - GN Vehicle Protection (http://www.gnvehicleprotection.co.uk/rods.html)

cheers

[~Rich~]

For the extra versatility I'd spend the $$$ and get LLAMS

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/verandah/114282-llams-electronic-height-controller-d3-d4-rrs.html

[Peter]

These are also available .... D3 / 4 Lift Kits - GN Vehicle Protection (http://www.gnvehicleprotection.co.uk/rods.html)

cheers

They do look very cool... Too late as I have ordered the GOE options.

Cheers PK

[oldsalt]

I've got a "spare" set of Johnson Rods if anybody is interested (a gift from my nephew in Belgium) I already had a set so these are yours for $80 - free postage - PM me if you're interested.
cheers

[Weird Al]

.................
However, the above is all rather academic, as every state in australia basically allows a suspension lift of +50 mm or 1/3 of bump/rebound travel in some way shape or form. In addition, I suspect only a police officer or transport inspector who owns one would be able to tell that the suspension was raised.
..............

Don't bet on that.

They know exactly how high (and many other specs) for every car sold in Australia for at least the last few years.

The manufacturers are required to have all the compliance data including suspension height to the mm, wheels suspension track, kerb and GMV, even if it came with options like fog lamps and privacy tint HID lamps, all submitted to the govt in order to sell the vehicle in Australia.

Have a look for yourself...this is the latest one for the D4.

Road Vehicle Descriptor (RVD1) (http://rvcs-prodweb.dot.gov.au/perl/41394_864618R_RVD_11Sep2009084843.cmd)

[oldsalt]

My "spare" set of Johnson rods are sold to "rocmic" so no more messages - O.K.
cheers :)

[Dirty3]

Just finished a weekend away into the Vic Alps. I fitted the GOE rods just before the trip and slipped them over to the offroad setting just before the tracks started. HEaps of clearance and the fact that in std height (new off road height) you can drive over 50km's without the incessant "bong...Bong" noice was great.
Did not bottom out once all weekend over very rough terrain, rocks & snow.

I recommend the GOE rods for a low cost option for offroad work. Plus if you are only occasionally going offroad, they are easy enough to remove and install the factory ones prior to dealer service. Once you get the hang of changing them over.

[Peter]

Have fitted the GOE Rods on the weekend in preparation for Fraser next Saturday. Let you know if it fixes the soft sand issues. What a difference and now the tyres do look a bit on the small side when it is in high mode.

[Peter]

OMG....... What a difference. Sand driving is now as good as it has ever been and my confidence in the D3 in Sand has returned.

My Disco has now changed its name to the Sand Rover.

I have driven the D3 on almost all settings and found it awesome and better than my previous RR, D1(x 2), and D2 with one exception, sand.

If you are heading for deep soft sand (Moreton, Stradebroke or Fraser), the D3 is too low or too slow in the raised settings. Putting the GOE rods in has changed all that even fully loaded or when racing against the tide to get back around the rocks the vehicle performed excellently. Soft ride and never went into low range. Still have the 18 inch rims and dropped them to 18 PSI so only difference was the rods.

On the way back passed all the bogged Tojos at inskip with ease.:D not thier fault they were all very shiny indcating possibly first timers and there was a long line for the barges meaning they stopped in the softest deepest stuff. Still couldn't help a positive feeling.

Only suggestion.... Make them a light bright colour. When the sun is bright and you are trying to find them to replace them to the standard setting, it takes your eyes a while to adjust.

At $140 delivered it is the cheapest lift kit you can get.

Yes the other options will do the same job. So I am really suggetsing a 50mm Lift for sand and no dropping to normal height at 50kmh cause you need the momentum.

Yes it has saved me $290 as I no longer feel the need to buy a set of Max Trax.

Yes it will cost me as I lost the front plastic bit that goes from under the front bumper to the front of the cross member thingy. Any suggestions / recommendations welcome.

Yes my mate in a modified LC 100 series is impressed and obviously showing a new found respect for the D3s performance and economy because I with an 85 litre tank and 2 Jerry Cans avoided a fill up at Eurong ($203 per litre) and he with 140 litre tank didn't. Let's say he was there a while and turned a few shades of pale.

Awesome week and awesome weather. If you haven't been to Fraser, you should put it on the list, just under a set of GOE rods or similar.

PK

[rmp]

Good as the rods are, they nor any other similar device remove the need to carry sand recovery gear such as Maxtrax, shovels or wives.

[Peter]

Apologies, I did not mean to suggest I don't carry shackles, straps, shovels, UHF, wife, engle, etc. Just that I lacked confidence in the vehicles sand ability.

[gghaggis]

Yes it will cost me as I lost the front plastic bit that goes from under the front bumper to the front of the cross member thingy. Any suggestions / recommendations welcome.

Yes my mate in a modified LC 100 series is impressed and obviously showing a new found respect for the D3s performance and economy because I with an 85 litre tank and 2 Jerry Cans avoided a fill up at Eurong ($203 per litre) and he with 140 litre tank didn't. Let's say he was there a while and turned a few shades of pale.

Awesome week and awesome weather. If you haven't been to Fraser, you should put it on the list, just under a set of GOE rods or similar.

PK

Good to hear they worked for you! I make a front bash plate to replace the fiddly plastic cover, and provide some protection for the intercooler etc. - email me if you're interested.

Cheers,

Gordon

[jonesfam]

This has been a very interesting read.
But it would seem that the shortened rod options all give you a +50mm lift.
What if you want a permanent lift but only 25mm or so?
I think the LLAMS can do this, but it is fairly expensive & I really don't like the thought of mucking with the electrics out here, nobody within Cooee that could fix it.
So is there a shortened rod that has like a turn buckle in the middle to give infinite adjustment? For those of us that want a lift but not to off road height.
Thanks
Jonesfam

[~Rich~]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/09/181.jpg
Something like these?
I had them originally but sold them off after I found it a pain to get under the vehicle and swap them back to the standard rods. I would just fit them for 4wd trips.

Spend the money on the Llams, it is not hard to fit or remove. If you upgrade to a latter model D4 just swap between vehicles. Or sell it for a good price on this Forum. :)
Llams will give you all you want in the way of height choices at your fingertips.

[gghaggis]

This has been a very interesting read.
But it would seem that the shortened rod options all give you a +50mm lift.
What if you want a permanent lift but only 25mm or so?
I think the LLAMS can do this, but it is fairly expensive & I really don't like the thought of mucking with the electrics out here, nobody within Cooee that could fix it.
So is there a shortened rod that has like a turn buckle in the middle to give infinite adjustment? For those of us that want a lift but not to off road height.
Thanks
Jonesfam

If you have access to a Faultmate or similar, you can re-calibrate the suspension ECU to give up to a max of 25mm lift, depending on the initial calibration of the system. This would then be permanent.

I could make a set of rods to give only 25mm if required.

Cheers,

Gordon

[TerryO]

Hi Gordon,

would it be possible to have a set of rods that has all three being standard, +25 and +50?

cheers,
Terry

[gghaggis]

Yes, possible - but why? If you need a temporary or semi-permanent lift, the +50mm should suffice (after all, it's still quite drivable). If you want a permanent +25mm, with the option to lift to +50mm, then that could be easily accomplished (which is what I was alluding to above) by having just those two options (no std height). Then if you want for some reason to revert to the std heights for a while, just switch back to the std rods.

I don't think it would be cost-effective to have a 3-position rod but yes, it could be done.

Cheers,

Gordon

[TerryO]

Thanks for the reply Gordon.

cheers,
Terry

[jonesfam]

Thanks to Gordon & Rich.
The reason I was thinking about a 25mm or so permanent lift is the conditions I drive under & trying to keep the cars driving behaviour as close to original as possible.
Take black mud for example, the car digs in or wallows in it but you have to keep momentum up so 50kph can be a tad slow but normal height is a tad low. Same goes for Bull dust, not bull dust holes but long stretches, let the speed drop a bit much & it all starts to bog down.
In saying the above the D3 has always got me out so far.
I think LLAMS might be the go, just have to wait till the new wheels, tyres & bike are here & the wife has settled back into her box. It was all going so well until I bought the bike.:p
Jonesfam