D3 or Other !!!

[land864]

Help me decide

I know there are similar posts from last year but it's near Mar 2011 and maybe time for an update

The 2002 Defender has been sold very regretfully :(due to the wifes back injury.

So , it's time for a replacement.

1. Budget is sub $60k drive away and ideally sub $57466 to avoid LCT

We think we've narrowed it down to 2 Options but still have to test drive both.

1. A 2008 D3 TDV6 SE 2.7 with around 40000 km/s or
2. 2009/2010 Pajero GLX with similar kms'

I know , I know it hardly seems believable but my experience with the TD5 D2A as the km's got higher really hurt the wallett and the pride. Combine that with a breakdown at Ouyen on the way to a central oz trip due to a burst transmission hose and a new auto trans at 140000 kms and a turbo mod valve break and etc etc etc for $$$$$ in repairs as the mkm's got higher , I am a little gun shy of a modern Landie product again. Combine that with limited dealer / service support in remote Aus and it makes it more difficult.


Heart definately says 2008 D3 but at the price would be without any extras.

Head and wallett say Pajero and from what I hear they are fairly capable.

Either car would need to ;

A. Suit the wifes back and if not add $ for an orthapedic Recaro seat.
B. Be a good outback tourer as we will do the CSR in the next few years as we did Ooodnadatta nd Mereenie Loop etc and Central Oz a couple of years back. Also capable of something like Zeka Spur tk and Hernes spur track as it will get used offroad to medium standard trips.
C. Be a good tow vehicle for say an 18ft off road caravan
D. Be reliable and low cost in maintenance as when it's paid out in 3 years we will probably hang on to it for a few more.

I guess my current thoughts are that the D3 would be an off the shelf car with no extras but a thing of beauty I would admire and a super comfy ride with possible high running costs versus the Pajero fully tricked up with LR tanks and Bullbar and winch and off road protection gear etc etc which for me would just be a tool or something practical , reliable and low cost maintenace wise.

Feel free to let loose :angel:

We haven't decided yet and a lot could be based on the test drives.

I don't want to be 3 years down the track saying either ' Bl..dy Japanese junk' or worse ' Damn it , another LR product I love but is killing me $ wise.

Pete

[irondoc]

hi pete

not sure if this is relevant, but i reckon you could walk into a landrover dealer and get a brand new base model 2.7 D4 for very close to $70K - not far off where you are now.

given that, i would have thought there would be a few later model discos out there than a 2008 for $60K, and maybe not very far off some base model D4s ????

just a thought, i haven't looked at second hand prices...
lucas

[trobbo]

get yourself the extended warranty on the D3 and have many years of happy motoring.

You will need to get the non serviceable transmission serviced by 100,000 preferably a bit earlier. A fluid change alone will be about $400 and to do it properly with an aftermarket pan (to make future fluid changes cheaper) will be about 48 - $900.

In terms of the specific q's

A. The seats in the D3 are sooooooo comfortable. It is the only car you get out of, feeling better than when you got in. They would be nice if they were heated though.

B. I haven't done any outback trips in mine yet but plenty of others have. Will let them answer this one. It would be advisable to fit a LR tank if doing lots of touring which then means a rear wheel carrier as well. tank ~ $1200. Carrier ~ 800 - $4000 for a Kaymar bar with dual carriers

C. Will let someone respond who has towed big vans. An ECU flash will help.

D. ??? Mine hasn't broken down in 12 months of ownership and now has 155K on it. Seems some break down more than others. But I have replaced ball joints and steering rack because they were starting to show singns of wear as well as transmission service leading to an expensive first 12 months.

[amaruskanic]

Pete,
Like you we had a D2 and just about everything went wrong with it. Got to the stage where we didnt trust it to take beyond the city limits.
So it was with some trepidation we got a D3. Have to say it has been very reliable (minor issue with EPB ) but nothing like the issues on the D2.
Andrew

[TerryO]

We just brought a early D3 to replace the D2a. Why? mainly for towing as we also have a 18' off road pop top caravan and with the extra water tanks and independant suspension etc the D2a was struggling wise.

By the way our caravan could not be towed by a Pajero legally even the new one with the increased 3000kg towing limit, once you go above a 2500 kg on the Paj the max ball weight comes down to about 150 kg from memory. The Pajero is not a bad bit of gear but they are definately not in the league on nearly any front of a D3/4.

To say I'm pleasantly surprized at how good the D3 is an understatement.

Good luck with what ever direction you go in.

cheers,
Terry

[Graeme]

LCT does not apply to used vehicles and for new vehicles it does not apply to on-road costs (dealer delivery charges & registration).

I fitted new 2009 D3 shocks and sway bars to my D4 mostly because the D3's suspension is so much more pliable than the D4's for my wife's injured back but also because I didn't like the ride either. It needs a bit more bumps-top clearance on rougher roads but I have a fix for that.;)

[ozscott]

.... But I have replaced ball joints and steering rack because they were starting to show singns of wear as well as transmission service leading to an expensive first 12 months.

Could you post up the cost of both of those repairs please mate?

As for the seats in the Paj - they are ok but a bit flat. Discovery has always been better than Paj in seating. The D2 seats are better than the Paj Nx IMHO having had an NX Exceed for a week.

The Paj tows well but the D3 from all accounts is certainly better and really sets the standard for heavy towing when comparing diesels in that year bracket.

As for reliability the Paj has had the odd problem but generally very reliable. The finish in them is nowhere near as nice as LandRover. My D2 was quiet cabin rattle rise compared to the NX Exceed and the tyre roar on the NX will drive you nuts.

Cheers

[Rockylizard]

get yourself the extended warranty on the D3 and have many years of happy motoring.

You will need to get the non serviceable transmission serviced by 100,000 preferably a bit earlier. A fluid change alone will be about $400 and to do it properly with an aftermarket pan (to make future fluid changes cheaper) will be about 48 - $900.

In terms of the specific q's

A. The seats in the D3 are sooooooo comfortable. It is the only car you get out of, feeling better than when you got in. They would be nice if they were heated though.

B. I haven't done any outback trips in mine yet but plenty of others have. Will let them answer this one. It would be advisable to fit a LR tank if doing lots of touring which then means a rear wheel carrier as well. tank ~ $1200. Carrier ~ 800 - $4000 for a Kaymar bar with dual carriers

C. Will let someone respond who has towed big vans. An ECU flash will help.

D. ??? Mine hasn't broken down in 12 months of ownership and now has 155K on it. Seems some break down more than others. But I have replaced ball joints and steering rack because they were starting to show singns of wear as well as transmission service leading to an expensive first 12 months.

Gday...

Extended warranties are great in saving $$$s if it does break down..... However, it is the breaking down that really irritates - It won't save the inconveniece of being stranded before it is fixed. That said it gives some confidence.

I have a 2006 D3 TDV6 SE Auto and concur with the auto transmission oil change before 100,000km - I did mine at 80,000km. This was not because it was causing any problems, but because I tow a large van and am travelling full-time ... I call it insurance. The auto box is smooth and lovely both before and after the ATF change.

I also concur fully regarding the comfort of the D3 seats. I love them. My wife is a disability pensioner due to her back and joint & muscle problems. She LOVES the D3 compared to anything else we have owned.

As I said, I tow a 23ft 2600kg van full time. The D3 does it excellently. I cruise on 1900rpm @ 88-90kph in cruise control on the flat. I hold 2000rpm in hilly country without cruise. I get an average of 13.8ltr/100km towing the van - 12.6ltr/100km the best (freeway from NSW down to Benalla) and 15.9ltr/100kph (headwind from Mildura to Broken Hill).

I could not see how a Pajero would be anything as good as the D3 and I doubt the dealer/service network for a Pajero would be any better than the D3.

Make sure you get LR Roadside Assist as well .... good value although it may not help you way out in the sandy sticks.:D

Cheers
John

[Narangga]

LCT does not apply to used vehicles and for new vehicles it does not apply to on-road costs (dealer delivery charges & registration).



LCT does actually apply to the sale of a used vehicle that is less than 2 years old from the date of first registration that is being sold by someone (or a business) registered for GST.

[ozscott]

Gday...

Extended warranties are great in saving $$$s if it does break down..... However, it is the breaking down that really irritates - It won't save the inconveniece of being stranded before it is fixed. That said it gives some confidence.

I have a 2006 D3 TDV6 SE Auto and concur with the auto transmission oil change before 100,000km - I did mine at 80,000km. This was not because it was causing any problems, but because I tow a large van and am travelling full-time ... I call it insurance. The auto box is smooth and lovely both before and after the ATF change.

I also concur fully regarding the comfort of the D3 seats. I love them. My wife is a disability pensioner due to her back and joint & muscle problems. She LOVES the D3 compared to anything else we have owned.

As I said, I tow a 23ft 2600kg van full time. The D3 does it excellently. I cruise on 1900rpm @ 88-90kph in cruise control on the flat. I hold 2000rpm in hilly country without cruise. I get an average of 13.8ltr/100km towing the van - 12.6ltr/100km the best (freeway from NSW down to Benalla) and 15.9ltr/100kph (headwind from Mildura to Broken Hill).

I could not see how a Pajero would be anything as good as the D3 and I doubt the dealer/service network for a Pajero would be any better than the D3.

Make sure you get LR Roadside Assist as well .... good value although it may not help you way out in the sandy sticks.:D

Cheers
John

John - all you say sounds right to me except the dealer/service network. At least in Queensland Mitsu kills LR in both number and (in my area) ability and true service.

Cheers

[chuck]

If you can get a D3 that is still in warranty then purchase extended warranty from dealer.

For 60K you should be able to get 08/09 model year diesel D3's.

This will give you additional 2 years warranty.

If you go down the Pajero path you should be able to buy brand new for that money with 5 year full warantee & 10 year driveline warranty.

Regards

Chuck

[Graeme]

LCT does actually apply to the sale of a used vehicle that is less than 2 years old from the date of first registration that is being sold by someone (or a business) registered for GST.
Obviously I wasn't aware of this. I assume therefore that the business can claim a proportioned LCT rebate too.

[land864]

Thanks all:)

Just remembered I can buy with top level Fleet discount too :)but our CFO at work says LR Aust don't really come to the party much in that way:mad:

Some clarifications if possible.

1. Can the + 2 years extended warranty only be purchased if buying through a dealer. That then adds the LCT if under 2YO and also GST I assume as opposed to private.
2. Trobbo. Does the warranty for +2 year cost about $3000?
3. Graeme. So your feeling is that the D3 suspension is much better than the D4? Can you PM me about what exactly the LLAMS is and if it's Kosher?
Are you also talking about the famous guitar player Robert Johnson and his band the rods;)

From a completely mercenary point of view ( and you can add of questionable parentage ) what I really need to do is buy a 1-2 YO D3 privately that has been all tricked up for the big trip , used for a year or two with low k's and then some poor bugger has to sell it!

I may try and get along to the GOE night on Mar 15 ,where there should be Robert P and his merry band of Melbourne based D3'ers and D4'ers :D

Seeing as the Deefer is going soon ( Sold ) and then the County soon after that ( coming up for sale soon), it would be a sin to have only one LR product in the garage wouldn't it?

Thanks again

Pete G ( LROCV Committee:eek:)

[gghaggis]

As I'm sure he will clarify, Graeme has a specific requirement for the suspension due to his wife's back and his personal use. Most people find the D4's EAS system more than adequate for their use. It is a little firmer than the D3 setup, but for most that is a good thing.

Cheers,

Gordon

[Narangga]

Obviously I wasn't aware of this. I assume therefore that the business can claim a proportioned LCT rebate too.

:confused: Not sure what you mean by this as LCT is a tax.

My understanding is that the law dictates what you collect and you pass it all to the Government.

In this case it is the buyer who receives a 'discount' so to speak on the LCT due to what LCT has already been paid on the vehicle when it was delivered new.

[ozscott]

As I'm sure he will clarify, Graeme has a specific requirement for the suspension due to his wife's back and his personal use. Most people find the D4's EAS system more than adequate for their use. It is a little firmer than the D3 setup, but for most that is a good thing.

Cheers,

Gordon

Is it firmer in the offroad settings as well as on road Gordon. Cheers

[gghaggis]

In low range (when the cross-valves are activated) I can't tell any difference in ride.

In high range it is probably a little firmer.

Cheers,

Gordon

[Graeme]

:confused: Not sure what you mean by this as LCT is a tax.

My understanding is that the law dictates what you collect and you pass it all to the Government.

In this case it is the buyer who receives a 'discount' so to speak on the LCT due to what LCT has already been paid on the vehicle when it was delivered new.
The full LCT is paid by the purchaser of the new vehicle to the dealer who has to pass it on to the ATO. If some LCT is also payable by a 2nd purchaser of an almost new vehicle then it can only be due to the original purchaser being entitled to a partial rebate, as the full LCT has already been paid. I will check this with the ATO. Also to be considered is the lower primary producer LCT rate on high-clearance 4WD vehicles, implemented as a direct rebate to the purchaser after the full LCT has been paid.

GST is also paid on a new vehicle. If the original purchaser was registered for GST then GST will be 1/11th of the used sale value. If a dealer purchases a used vehicle, the dealer will claim 1/11th of his purchase price as GST regardless of whether the seller was registered for GST or not and will charge GST when he sells the vehicle. If a business purchases a used vehicle and the seller is registered for GST (eg a dealer), the purchasing business can claim the GST component.

This probably has little bearing on the OP's decision making but it did have a big impact on my buying a new vehicle as apposed to a near-new vehicle privately, as mine is primarily for business use, and for primary production use at that.

Edit: Additional LCT is only payable on used vehicles less than 2 years old when the value has increased. If the value has decreased, no additional LCT is payable and no refund either!

[Narangga]

The full LCT is paid by the purchaser of the new vehicle to the dealer who has to pass it on to the ATO. If some LCT is also payable by a 2nd purchaser of an almost new vehicle then it can only be due to the original purchaser being entitled to a partial rebate, as the full LCT has already been paid. I will check this with the ATO. Also to be considered is the lower primary producer LCT rate on high-clearance 4WD vehicles, implemented as a direct rebate to the purchaser after the full LCT has been paid.

GST is also paid on a new vehicle. If the original purchaser was registered for GST then GST will be 1/11th of the used sale value. If a dealer purchases a used vehicle, the dealer will claim 1/11th of his purchase price as GST regardless of whether the seller was registered for GST or not and will charge GST when he sells the vehicle. If a business purchases a used vehicle and the seller is registered for GST (eg a dealer), the purchasing business can claim the GST component.

This probably has little bearing on the OP's decision making but it did have a big impact on my buying a new vehicle as apposed to a near-new vehicle privately, as mine is primarily for business use, and for primary production use at that.

Fair enough.

[rmp]

I may try and get along to the GOE night on Mar 15 ,where there should be Robert P and his merry band of Melbourne based D3'ers and D4'ers :D


Err, no, that's a GOE night, entirely seperate. Refer other thread. The events I organise for D3/D4/RRS owners are bring-your-car get togethers or trips of varying difficulty.

But I shall be mentioning a few Disco-ish things at the next club meeting along with the formal launch of E-Trips. I have a speaking slot already somewhere along the line.

[trobbo]

Could you post up the cost of both of those repairs please mate?
Cheers


steering Rack - $872.14 plus fitting $362.50
two lower ball joints - $139.76 plus fitting $290.00

Also required wheel alignment due to above - $60

The extended warranty I think is about 3K.

[land864]

Apologies Robert , I thought I read somwhere that you were going to the GOE night.
Then again I did not read Graeme's website properly either so it's definately me:confused:.
You are giving a talk on E-trips next Thurs at LROCV, yes?
I may ply you with D3 queries if that's okay:)

Pete G

[rmp]

Apologies Robert , I thought I read somwhere that you were going to the GOE night.
Then again I did not read Graeme's website properly either so it's definately me:confused:.
You are giving a talk on E-trips next Thurs at LROCV, yes?
I may ply you with D3 queries if that's okay:)

Pete G

Sure, I've decided to talk for 2 minutes on rods/LLAMS plus the other non-Disco stuff I needed to cover anyway.

[sniegy]

There is no "other"
The D4 suits my needs perfectly.
Yes it does ride firmer than the D3 & that was definately a selling point for "me".
If you are looking to buy as a Corporate deal, I can highly recommend Andrew at my work MLR (Melb. City LR). 96841073 is his direct number, just let him know Sniegy passed on your details. He is our Corporate Sales Representitive. Not a tosser just a down to earth guy.

HTH.

Cheers & good luck with your choice,




of Land Rover ;)