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View Full Version : 110 Axle Upgrade, or is it?



Disconewhere
24th February 2011, 09:14 PM
Hi Guys,

Have been a long time reader of AULRO, it seems there is a much larger LR scene in Aus than NZ and so maybe some of you have hands on experience with what I'm considering?

I've recently sold my 02 Td5 90, a sad day as I rebuilt it from a wreck. Anyway it's replacement is a 94 Tdi 110, the reason for the change is that the 90 was a bit small to carry four adults plus assorted outdoor kit for weekends away.

The 90 wasn't anything too special, rear locker, 35's(On 120mm BS rims), 2" lift, 1.2 Transfer case, Reprogrammed ECU and so it goes on. It was quite a good compromise for me off road and not so bad on road.

I really want the 110 to be similarly or more capable both on and off road and so have been scheming.

I don't really abuse my vehicles, having had both a Tdi Disco and the 90, both on 35's(McNamara locker and axles) and having never broken anything R&P, axle or centre I don't really see the need for me to go any bigger or stronger.

The 110 has a salisbury in the back and as I don't really need the strength the loss of ground clearance disturbs me!!!

There is the obvious option of slipping a disco rear axle in, filling it with a McNamara and axles and calling it good. This leaves the front a bit weak, the disco had 23 spline CVs and a 4pin diff but the 90 was standard, never managed to break either one but I did worry about the 90 with the 32 spline CVs, it was only a matter of time.

Another option that is nothing new is to run Hilux centres with longfield CV and custom axles, this way I can also go to 4.1 R&P + Toy elockers for a lot less money than upgrading the rover gear and it seems that the Toy solution might also be stronger.

If I'm going to go down the custom axle route it seems that maybe I could widen the rover housing to improve the turning circle while keeping min rim offset to keep it driving nice.

Here is what I'm thinking:

Get a Hi pinion Toy 4.1 8" Elocker, Longfield 30 spline CVs, re-splined early 110 drive flanges, custom front axles 40mm longer than standard, machine a spacer to bolt/weld to axle casing and then bolt the swivel to.

Get a Toy 4.1 8" Elocker, custom rear axles 40mm longer than standard and have some early 110 drive flanges re-splined to take the 30 spline axles and a 40mm spacer between stub and axle casing.

I think I could find a propshaft laying around to maching the yoke and spline off and refit them to a suitably long pice of tube to make up for the shorter toy diff, the Sals is quite long!! With machined and re drilled diff flanges it should all bolt up like standard.

I haven't eyeballed this but I'm thinking that maybe with the Hi pinion in the front I might be able to run a tweaked tie-rod to get it and my bash plate well up above the bottom of the axle casing. This would mean the radius arms would be in the way so why not 3 link the front at the same time. A well designed 3 link with the right springs and maybe a sway-bar should handle as well as the standard radius arms right?

This seems like a good chunk of work that I don't plan on doing over night, it will take time to get it all right but I think it might be a good plan. I would really like to use the chassis end radius arm mounts for the lower links and then squeeze the upper link in somewhere, this means that I could always just bolt the standard front end back in if I have too much trouble.

Yes just fitting 80 series or GQ axles might be easier and cheaper, but I want to keep it as rover as possible.

I'm not trying to go extreme, just to reasonable strength at a reasonable cost as I don't have heaps of $$ to spend on the rover:(

What do you guys think?

Anyone tried widening rover casings this or any other way?

Has any one run a Toy 8" Elocker in the rear of a 110, or a 24 spline rover back axle for that matter?

I know the Puma runs a 24 spline or similar rear end and there have been problems which concerns me but it seems more like manufacture faults right?

From what I've seen and read it seems like the 8" toy holds up in Hilux rears, so no reason the 110 should kill it right?

3 link fronts seem like a can of worms, to me I really just want to increase wheel travel to use the range of the standard shocks, but definitely not wanting to adversely affect the handling of the 110, has any one really achieved this? Lots of searching and most 3 links seem to aim for extreme wheel travel not compromise.

Most of all, is there a better way to do any of this?

Right that is probably long enough, would be great to hear some of your ideas.

Cheers
Mike

roverrescue
24th February 2011, 11:00 PM
So let me get this straight.
Youve run 35s on Rover gear without problem,
your new issue is the salisbury plough - so you completely rebuild the whole driveline to accomodate????

Give the sals a shave, put on a new pan cover, run your 35s and be happy ;)

But thats no where near as complimicated as your idea.

Steve

stig0000
25th February 2011, 12:23 AM
do it:D i wana see how hard it is to put a lux in the front, my front diff center is buggerd and dont wana put a rover back in it, maby a rear lux center then the lsd would work up front? wiht me locker in the rear

Disconewhere
25th February 2011, 12:36 AM
Steve,

Not quite, it's been up graded rover gear, except the front of the 90.

Sure, a shaved Salisbury would be simple, but I'd still would want to do something with the front. How about shaved Rover housings with Toy 3rd, way better clearance than a shaved sals, though I'm not trying to go to extremes here.

Plus I would like to try 4.1s with a 1.2 Transfer case so the toy conversion kills two birds, plus I can find secondhand toy lockers for not so much $$$.

Then there is the other issue of getting the wheels out a bit further to aid turning circle with out needing heaps of rim offset.

jakeslouw
25th February 2011, 12:43 AM
Heck, if you're going to all that trouble, why not put in portals?

Disconewhere
25th February 2011, 02:37 AM
My thinking was that, though cool, portals would be way more expensive by the time they are disc braked, plus are they really up to traveling on the road at 100kph for long periods?

Could be wrong, if I could have disc braked portals with lockers for AU$5k that will be alright for road use then like you say, why not!!

Cheers

isuzurover
25th February 2011, 03:58 PM
You would be crazy to get rid of the sals if you are running 35's. Sure, the toyota guys manage to run up to 37's, however generally on lighter vehicles and they do break things occasionally.

Shaved sals in the rear with Dana 60 4.1 R&P and locker/axles of your choice (D60 lockers and gears are very cheap ex-us and fit into a sals).

Ashcroft's new superduper ring and pinion in the front (4.1) and locker/axles of your choice.

Most people will break CVs in the front if running 35s and locked - so will need to upgrade to ashcroft cvs. You must only be driving mud if you aren't breaking rover cvs on 35s?

Vern
26th February 2011, 08:26 AM
do a search on here for 'toy conversions', i used to run this in my old rangie and i know a few others that still do. Its a great conversion, you can get all the bits from jacmac or rovertracks, a small amount of boring of the spindles is needed, and machining for the brass bush in the front spindle. Re-drill the studs for the centre to bolt into (HSV Rangie has a jig), then bolt it all together the same as standard rover stuff. Re-drill the diff flange for the standard drive shafts as well, done:)

mac1308
1st March 2011, 09:08 PM
Hi All,
We are running Ashcroft 4.1's and CV's, HiTuff axles on a D1 with 35"Simex, no breakages since swapping to Ashcroft CV's. Running Ascroft CV's and HiTuff axles on a 130 and a 90 V8 with no probems (all get a
hard time).
Mac1308

Didge
4th March 2011, 09:13 PM
Christ, I got lost in all that!
I'm with Jakeslouw on this one - $10-$14k and you're set :)Help please
what does the sals diff look like, does it have a flat horizontal bottom edge to it? And how do you shave one, and what part do you shave? Also what is this R&P you're talking about?
cheers Gerald
I'd love to see photos of all this work

jakeslouw
4th March 2011, 09:50 PM
Christ, I got lost in all that!
I'm with Jakeslouw on this one - $10-$14k and you're set :)Help please
what does the sals diff look like, does it have a flat horizontal bottom edge to it? And how do you shave one, and what part do you shave? Also what is this R&P you're talking about?
cheers Gerald
I'd love to see photos of all this work

Hey Gerald, yes heck these guys can go on hey? ;)

Salisbury diff is a Dana 60 made under license in the UK after WWII. Big round pumpkin housing, so the guys "shave" it by grinding off as much material as possible to get center clearance.

R&P is Ring and Pinion gear set, the two bits that define and set your diff ratio.

As for disks versus drums on the Mog Portals: the Mog drum brakes are able to stop up to 17 tons. (The SADF Buffel was a V-hull, mine-proof, armoured personnel carrier bin body mounted on a Mog rolling chassis. I drove in those enough times in my life to tell you they stop pretty well).
With a decent brake booster and master cylinder, I wouldn't have any worries with them stopping a little old Land Rover.

jakeslouw
4th March 2011, 10:12 PM
Christ, I got lost in all that!
I'm with Jakeslouw on this one - $10-$14k and you're set :)Help please
what does the sals diff look like, does it have a flat horizontal bottom edge to it? And how do you shave one, and what part do you shave? Also what is this R&P you're talking about?
cheers Gerald
I'd love to see photos of all this work

Hey Gerald, yes heck these guys can go on hey? ;)

Salisbury diff is a Dana 60 made under license in the UK after WWII. Big round pumpkin housing, so the guys "shave" it by grinding off as much material as possible to get center clearance.

R&P is Ring and Pinion gear set, the two bits that define and set your diff ratio.

As for disks versus drums on the Mog Portals: the Mog drum brakes are able to stop up to 17 tons. (The SADF Buffel was a V-hull, mine-proof, armoured personnel carrier bin body mounted on a Mog rolling chassis. I drove in those enough times in my life to tell you they stop pretty well).
With a decent brake booster and master cylinder, I wouldn't have any worries with them stopping a little old Land Rover.

uninformed
6th March 2011, 10:12 AM
Hi All,
We are running Ashcroft 4.1's and CV's, HiTuff axles on a D1 with 35"Simex, no breakages since swapping to Ashcroft CV's. Running Ascroft CV's and HiTuff axles on a 130 and a 90 V8 with no probems (all get a
hard time).
Mac1308

are these the latest/strongest Ashcroft R+P?

LowRanger
7th March 2011, 10:16 AM
You would be crazy to get rid of the sals if you are running 35's. Sure, the toyota guys manage to run up to 37's, however generally on lighter vehicles and they do break things occasionally.

Shaved sals in the rear with Dana 60 4.1 R&P and locker/axles of your choice (D60 lockers and gears are very cheap ex-us and fit into a sals).

Ashcroft's new superduper ring and pinion in the front (4.1) and locker/axles of your choice.

Most people will break CVs in the front if running 35s and locked - so will need to upgrade to ashcroft cvs. You must only be driving mud if you aren't breaking rover cvs on 35s?




This is the setup that I run on my Defender,except I run the Ashcroft reverse cut 4.12 ring an pinion in the front with a McNamara locker with chrome moly axles and CV's from Keith at Rovertracks.And I run 35" Treps.About as strong as I can make it with the rover setup I guess.

And I run the rear Salisbury with Dana 60 gearset and custom pinion flange,again all supplied from Keith.Rear locker and Hi Tough axles and flanges.
And all for a lot less money than other people have been talking.

Wayne

Didge
9th March 2011, 11:33 PM
I thnk I need a sacrificial defender, a heap of time off work or to do a mechanics course :( I'll pick it up (learn), but only when things go wrong (and I have to fix them) which luckily they haven't (in great amounts anyway) but it's all interesting isn't it :)

mac1308
11th March 2011, 08:37 AM
are these the latest/strongest Ashcroft R+P?
No, the older type they offer (the others had not come out yet), can only imagine how hard it would be to brake the new type.(They look great)
Mac1308
Ps A mate has a very heavy 130 with Maxidrive's + crawler gears and 35's he has been running ashcroft 4.1's, rover front Sals rear (old type) for 18 months loves the gearing (he's no speed demond but takes it everywhere).

rstach
19th March 2011, 07:12 PM
Hi All
I am trying to do the opposite in that I have a 2004 130 CC running 33's with a P38 rear diff.I am try to setup for touring with camper to remote locations, with the occasional fun day. Is it worth/strong to install an ARB locker into the P38 or is it smarter to bite the bullet and install a sals with an ARB locker. Any advice would be great.

Richard

isuzurover
20th March 2011, 09:57 AM
... is it smarter to bite the bullet and install a sals with an ARB locker.


That option.

The problem with the P38s is not so much the centre as the ring and pinion. The sals crownwheel is almost 2" larger in diameter, and hypoid, which further increases strength. It is probably twice as strong. People in the US run them with 40" diameter wheels.

uninformed
20th March 2011, 08:00 PM
how much for a Sals, disc to disc?

then how much for new axles and flanges?

how much to upgrade the p38 to an arb or ashcroft with new ring gear and shafts/flanges???

price it out

rstach
20th March 2011, 08:53 PM
I have not found A HD R&P in 3.54 for the P38. I will start the search for a Sals.

isuzutoo-eh
21st March 2011, 12:57 PM
LANDROVER PARTS (http://www.landroverclassicparts.com.au/ProductDetail.aspx?prodId=106544)

There's a start

Bushie
22nd March 2011, 07:28 AM
what does the sals diff look like, does it have a flat horizontal bottom edge to it?
cheers Gerald



Gerald, just look under the back of yours - It's got (well should be) a salisbury diff.

Martyn