Redline WaterWetter - opinions for Rover V8

[stuee]

Just got put on to this by a work mate today and have been having a search around on the forums about it. Just thought I'd ask who runs it and who's had experience with it.

I've got to drop some fluid to install some injectors over the weekend and install a filter in the top hose, and have not been that happy with what the radiator place have done with my car (still pushing 105-108 on hot days after a bit of a workout after radiator rodded and full engine flush, as opposed to never usually cracking 100). I'm told its currently got Genuine Toyota coolant in it (red stuff) that the radiator joint mixed up themselves. I'm a bit dubious about it so I'm tempted to drop all the fluid and replace with Distilled Water and Redline Waterwetter as opposed to converting back to the Tectaloy 60 coolant that I've always used.

I've seen a couple of the guys on this forum swear by it and it seems very popular amongst racers of all sorts. My workmate runs it in his Turbo XR6 and reckons its great too.

Anyone else care to share their experiences when used in rover V8's?

[PhilipA]

It would appear that you have done many of the correct things, but have you replaced the thermostat and viscous coupling hub?

While I do not have a calibrated gauge my RRC 3.9 never moves over just under half even in 40C plus and towing, as well as slow work.( which is a max of say 100-105)

I understand water wetter works well, but maybe you wiill just be masking another problem which will come back and bite you eventually.
Regards Philip A

[stuee]

Thermostat functions and was replaced only a few months prior to the cooling system overhaul. My temp gauge sender is after the thermostat so I see it open when it hits 88-90 deg C. The factory gauge is rock solid but I have more faith in my vdo gauge. I get the impression that extended periods over 100 deg C are not good for the engine so I am trying to avoid this.

Viscous was replaced with a thermofan (AU setup) that gave 3 years of trouble free service and its only this summer that the temps started going up which prompted me taking it in for an overhaul.

The thing that concerns me is that even at 100km/h on a freeway, if its a warm day the needle starts moving up and staying up (even post overhaul), which it never did before. That to me indicates a blocked radiator. I've been told that my recent offroad journey after the overhaul could have dislodged more scale from the engine but I didn't notice things go this bad this quickly when the radiator was replaced 3-4 years ago, but that's why I'm fitting a filter in the top hose too.

Basically I'm tempted to drop the coolant out completely, give the radiator and engine a flush with the hose, run the eingine with distilled water, drop it again and refil with distilled and water and waterwetter.

What I'm liking about the waterwetter is that you can mix it with normal coolants and it wont cause any gelling or corrosion issues. That means if I dont get every last drop of the toyota coolant out I *shouldn't* have a major problem on my hands. It may be that the shop didn't flush the engine properly and I'm having these coolant mix problems now??

The only other problem I can think of is a slightly cracked head gasket or something along those lines but I'm ignoring that until it comes and smacks me in the face in which case I'll probably take a match to the car.

But anywho, anyone ever heard of anything bad about Waterwetter??

[PhilipA]

In my experience , one thing that can cause a car to overheat on the highway is the headgaskets leaking combustion into the valley.
The other is a blocked radiator.
I have mine out at the moment after being recored 10 years ago, as I am doing my head gaskets, and I am also agonising whether to just look inside with a borescope or have it rodded, even though I am pretty sure it is clean as I have used distilled water and Nulon Longlife for the entire period.
Regards Philip A

[scott oz]

When I used the redline water wetter I was told it should NOT be mixed with other coolants.

When I had my radiator rodded it was noted that 30% of the lower section was blocked by what the radiator bloke said was the result of mixing coolants?




BTW a water wetter will not cure a cooling problem.

[nice1guv]

Have you looked at your water pump?

High temps at speed may indicate that it is not operating well.

[isuzurover]

Water wetter lowers the surface tension of water.

So does adding ethylene glycol (and I would imagine other coolants).

People I have heard of who use water wetter add it to pure water. Pure water (with or without water wetter) is a better coolant - in terms of heat transfer ability, than any commercial coolant.

AFAIK water wetter is mainly used in race engines, either because they need the extra cooling that pure water provides, or because the racing regulations prohibit glycol coolants for environmental reasons.

If you have an engine like a rover V8 which needs a quality corrosion inhibitor, I can see little benefit in adding water wetter.

[PAT303]

Water wetter does work with toyota coolant because half the toyota's in Kalgoorlie run it.I would not use it if you are having cooling issue's,rover V8's have very big rads and should not overheat,if it is find the problem.As posted above WW should not be used as a bandaid solution. Pat

[stuee]

When I used the redline water wetter I was told it should NOT be mixed with other coolants.

When I had my radiator rodded it was noted that 30% of the lower section was blocked by what the radiator bloke said was the result of mixing coolants?




BTW a water wetter will not cure a cooling problem.

Redline state it can be mixed with radiator coolant mixes as it contains no anti-freeze.

I am still unsure of the cause of the cooling problem, either a leaking head gasket as PhillipA has suggested or blocked radiator again (possibly because the radiator joint didn't flush the engine properly causing the old and new fluids to mix together). I have been told many times that the water pump either works or it doesn't. It may well be the problem but I'm looking down other avenues first. Alternatively it could be the Toyota coolant has a larger percentage of antifreeze in it which reduces heat transfer.

Basically I'm going to be dumping the fluid out of the car anyway (to check the radiator myself) and flush and refill with either Tectaloy or Redline Waterwetter. I'm leaning towards refilling with the Redline because of its ability to be mixed with other coolants and not cause problems.

Please note I'm not trying to mask the problem with the waterwetter but seeing as I'm going to have to refill the car anyway I'm putting the feelers out there to see what people think of the product. I'm pretty set on it either way unless someone has something bad to say.

Their product data sheet explains the product well.
http://www.redlineoil.com.au/Uploads/Downloads/Techweb%20PRODSUMM%20WaterWetter%20Pink.pdf

Also I'm very grateful for the advice on other possible causes of the heating issue so if you have any other ideas keep them coming please. Another reason for resolving the issue is that the car is running very rich at the moment, and when I get the new MAF I will be leaning it out a bit which will make it want to run even hotter :eek:

edit* The waterwetter also has corrosion inhibitor.

[PAT303]

Get the system flushed at a good rad shop then fill with Tectaloy extra cool gold. Pat

[nigelbuilding1984]

Hi i used redline water wetter in my 6.5 chev diesel fully flushed with distilled water made no difference in my opinion $40 a bottle when u need two of them just came across as snake oil to me.
better of using tectaloy gold cheaper and at the end of the day coolant actualy lowers the boiling point of water anyway so it doesnt really mater it wouldnt be fluid causing your over heating problem at the end of the day its just fluid.

[PhilipA]

OK, real life experience.

I took my 92RRC radiator to a NATRAD shop today to be rodded, since it is 11 years old (NATRAD 940 core fitted under warranty when I bought the car) . No overheating at all but seeing I have the whole thing apart I would rather be sure.

I have used Nulon Longlife Green and distilled water changed every 2 years. There was NO blockage in the radiator and NO corrosion in the steel pipes to the heater and NO corrosion in the timing case.

The radiator guy said the core was extremely clean.
I reckon that this speaks for itself on what is a good coolant .
Regards Philip A

[PAT303]

Bloody amazing,correct cooling system servicing does work.Who would have thunk it. Pat

[LOVEMYRANGIE]

at the end of the day coolant actualy lowers the boiling point of water anyway so it doesnt really mater it wouldnt be fluid causing your over heating problem at the end of the day its just fluid.

Umm, think you'll find it raises the boiling point......

The main point of Water Wetter is to increase the surface tension of the water in the galleries when it's at temperature. This stops the formation of air bubbles on the gallery walls and also reduces cavitation particularly in the water pump and at the thermostat outlet and basically anywhere there is the possibility of differential pressure forming including block to head water galleries.

If you dont need antifreeze properties in a lot of cases WW on it's own will be adequate. The heat transfer capacity is exceptionally good however your only really looking at a couple of degrees benefit over pure distiller water, but over even a good glycol it will be quite a bit better.
However in an aluminum block, I wouldn't use it on it's own mainly for the anti corrosion needs.
Diesel variants of WW have high anti cav properties to protect against ignition cavitation around the top of the bore area which is more prevalent in wet liner engines than parent bores engines.

Toyota coolant, excellent stuff but handmixed concoction I would be dubious about as the premixed is the best you will get and as previously mentioned, over rich mix will actually cause overheating as it can't release the heat quick enough.

I would use a high quality coolant and for a V8 just like Philip, I recommend the Nulon Xtracool non glycol concentrate with a bottle of Water Wetter but if you have other problems it ain't gonna fix it.

I would drop the coolant in it, fill with normal water and add a flushing agent.
Drain it by removing both block plugs, stick a hose in the heater pipe filler and flush the ass out of it (this will also flush the heater core) then put everything back together, add a bottle of the Nulon concentrate and fill with water and bleed it accordingly.
If you still have hot running then it's something else ala water pump or even running too lean.

Cheers

Andrew




Sent from my backyard TeePee using smoke signals.

[stuee]

Okay so apart from phillipA recommending Nulon long life the, Tectaloy Xtra Cool Gold and Nulon Ultra Cool are essentially heavy duty corrosion inhibitors (no anti-freeze). Tectaloy even states theirs can be mixed with tap water!! (I'll only be using distilled water...)

Tectaloy Xtra Cool GOLD (http://www.tectaloy.com/page25.html)
Ultra Cool - Nulon Products Australia (http://www.nulon.com.au/products/Ultra_Cool/)

The Redline Waterwetter is a WW and corrosion inhibitor but I take it from the pushing of the Tectaloy and Nulon that its corrosion inhibiting ability is pretty average??

Redine state:

RUST & CORROSION PROTECTION
• WaterWetter passes the ASTM D2570 Simulated Service Corrosion Test -the most severe test developed
for automotive coolants determined by the ASTM committee to be requirements for adequate cooling
system protection.
• WaterWetter reduces rust, corrosion and electrolysis of all metals in plain water. Also prevents cavitation
corrosion.

[clubagreenie]

I wouldn't rely on water wetter as a corrosion inhibitor, especially when you consider the issues that occur in our engines. I use it and have seen a 2-3 degree decrease since. Added it to the std coolant mix.

[PAT303]

Okay so apart from phillipA recommending Nulon long life the, Tectaloy Xtra Cool Gold and Nulon Ultra Cool are essentially heavy duty corrosion inhibitors (no anti-freeze). Tectaloy even states theirs can be mixed with tap water!! (I'll only be using distilled water...)

Tectaloy Xtra Cool GOLD (http://www.tectaloy.com/page25.html)
Ultra Cool - Nulon Products Australia (http://www.nulon.com.au/products/Ultra_Cool/)

The Redline Waterwetter is a WW and corrosion inhibitor but I take it from the pushing of the Tectaloy and Nulon that its corrosion inhibiting ability is pretty average??

Redine state:

I run extra cool gold in my Tdi and it has seen 48 degree's without overheating.But,and it's a big but I flush and change it's cooling system every year without fail. Pat

[jimbob292]

Hi,

Just read all the posts with great interest, I’m currently in the same sort of position.

Recently, rebuilt the engine 3.9 EFI Discovery, new cam, lifters, timing gear etc, plus new OEM composite head gaskets with ARP studs to give a better seal.

At the same time I added a non standard condenser to cope with the summer hear, more fins per inch, as my OEM was shot. Fitted a low fin height radiator, 8 months ago.

Started the lump up, fired on the first turn no issues, ran at 2,000 rpm for 20 mins to bed the cam in, etc, so far I’ve done 2,000ks, with oil an oil change at 1,000k’s no oil in the water, no water in the oil, using VR1 20 / 50 W racing oil.

Had a right PITA with air in the system, found a leak on a hose clip near the plenum chamber fixed and sealed, refilled and bleed, still before the stat opens I hear a little noise, gurgling around the heater matrix.

Fitted a new expansion cap, and while I was at it, fitted a new OEM waxstat, the old stat only had the hole at the top, where as the new one had the little jiggle pin, of which I left.

The coolant I’m using is Cummins Fleet guard, pre mixed 50/50 ethylene glycol , before the over haul I was using Caltex 50/50 but only 8 ltrs, and the rest topped off with distilled water, before, running temp was around the 89c – 92c

My running temp is currently around the 89c – 96c mixed driving standing still with an ambient of between 37c – 42c. At 120k’s, the viscous fan starts to pull in around 92c 94c, so that works and when it does its draws the temp down.

I know fitting a different condenser, with more fins per inch it will create more drag on the air, but at 120k.s with the ram effect?

My thinking is that the coolant is a greater concentrate then what was previously in there, less heat removal???

I was planning to remove as much as I can, flush, flush, and flush, refill with the Caltex which was previously in there.

Any other ideas, or am I on the wrong route?

Rgds,

Jim

[PhilipA]

Fitted a low fin height radiator, 8 months ago.



What is that when its home?
How does it compare with OEM on fin count and total fin area?

Regards Philip A

[jimbob292]

Hi,

Its a bespoke radiator made by Sereck Services in the Gulf, around $185 AUD, what this company do is take the old core, discard and re-core it with a new design, i will count the FPI a little later on. The overhaul fixtures & fittings stay the same, but the core is a little thicker as well.

Its heaps better then the old OEM one, which gave me trouble several years back.

Rgds,

Jim

[LOVEMYRANGIE]

You could have just used a Discovery condenser.
Condensers designed for R134a are a crossflow type rather than loop coil as used in the original R12 Rangie A/C as R134a isn't as efficient in transferring latent heat. Cross flow units reduces physical loss and slows gas flow thru the core exposing it to the fin area longer.

Andrew


I am not a moderator, I am a human being!!!

[PhilipA]

Yes agree . I fitted a Serck core to my 81 in Saudi in 1985. it was a tropical core with swirl inducers on the fins.

Looks like your new condenser is a problem. Maybe it is blocking airflow at high speed if your viscous comes on at 120Kmh, although I must say mine comes on at over 40C towing at 110 in my RRC 3.9.

I found in Saudi that the wind direction played a big part. Are you sure the wind was blowing in the same direction for both tests?

However your temps are pretty good on highway but in sand would be another issue.

Maybe you should try the waterwetter , because there is no better demo than in the ME.

With regard to the coolant, yes maybe try 30% as it rarely would get below -10C inland in winter.

I ended up fitting a mercedes 280 SE 16inch fan as well as the 10 inch on my condenser and that helped in sand particularly with a following wind.
Regards Philip A

[jimbob292]

Hi,

The condenser was built in the UK, to the design ambient of 45c with a very high RH, all the fins are copper, same as the the tubing which is HD. I've seen a marked improvement with A/C its not struggling as much. I left the ref charge the same, 1.14kgs, no point in over charging it. I've a second hand one, which has been plugged and ready to drop in if the need arrives.

Yes, agree the wind makes a huge effect, TBH i didn't take note in which way it was blowing, with the heat as is, i wont be in the sandy stuff around midday, late afternoon earlier evening no issues.

This evening it was showing 41c, and the engine temp on the SPA gauge was showing a steady 95c at 100ks, I've drained out 4 ltrs and filled with distilled water, should make the mixture around the 33/67, hopefully this should help.

Ive heard mixed reports about wetter water, saying it can block up the cores etc, is this correct?

Rgds,

Jim

[LOVEMYRANGIE]

Blocking cores???? Water wetter??? errrrrrr..... No.


I am not a moderator, I am a human being!!!

[clubagreenie]

Water wetter is like a "surfectant" reducing surface tension and preventing cavitation bubble accumulation and hot spotting due to air pockets,.

[jimbob292]

Ok, i will try and get a bottle and see what it does.

Cheers

[clubagreenie]

In high HP applications I've always used it. More on the fact it was recommended as a solution from someone who observed some issues one day and gave us a bottle to try. Instantly resolved the issues. I use it in daily applications as it sure can't hurt, and even less in the rover V8's with their potential for issues. If it can reduce hot spots (which seem to be possible causes of the liner issues where the head gaskets always fail in between common cylinders) then it can't be a bad thing. Temps seem to be more stable too.

[ozscott]

I use it lately. Seems fine in my D2 V8. I replaced thermostat, pipes and fan clutch and did flush at 172,000 and the temps kept climbing...max of 108 one day so got a new OEM rad a few days ago and 98 max. Just added a TEFBA filter and (its not blocked no) max now 102 at idle, but straight back to 100 once thermos do their thing. I think it is just the filter element, so no problems with that. If I go hard core offroading I will probably just remove the filter element, but because it does not go past 102, I suspect it will be fine just to leave it there too.

Cheers

[jimbob292]

HI,

After lowering my concentrate to 28%, the engine temps have dropped down to around 92 in all conditions, so i'm happy, Iv'e a bottle of water wetter now, and that will be added at the weekend, if it helps i will be pleased:D:D:D:D

Rgds,

Jim

[landy2anut]

I have never liked using coolant and have never tried waterwetter although many swear by it. I use anti-corrosion inhibitor only! If your vehicle is overheating there is a problem and it is not the fluid in the cooling system. There can be many things such as spotlights, winches, dead bugs, plastic bags, the hot air may not be exiting your engine bay, Drift cars jack up the rear of their bonnet to get hot air out quickly. Fitting a different heat range thermostat can help and always make sure it has a hole in it for coolant flow at lower temp. so you dont get heat shock in your head! Fitting a bypass hose to a certain position in the upper cooling galleries is also an option, commonly carried out on Flacon motors notorious for spittin' head gaskets.

[PhilipA]

Jim, has yours got a "Middle East" grille with the mesh instead of bars?
Regards Philip A

[jimbob292]

Jim, has yours got a "Middle East" grille with the mesh instead of bars?
Regards Philip A

Hi,

Yes its a GCC spec Disco 120 amp alternator etc, bought in Jeddah 1998, the grill is the chicken wire type.

Will get the FPI a little later on today.

Jim

[LOVEMYRANGIE]

Hi,

Yes its a GCC spec Disco 120 amp alternator etc, bought in Jeddah 1998, the grill is the chicken wire type.

Will get the FPI a little later on today.

Jim

Mesh grille???? Never seen one.
Is there an option for a D2a???

I am not a moderator, I am a human being!!!

[jimbob292]

Hi,

Yes its a GCC spec Disco 120 amp alternator etc, bought in Jeddah 1998, the grill is the chicken wire type.

Will get the FPI a little later on today.

Jim

The FPI is 15

[jimbob292]

Mesh grille???? Never seen one.
Is there an option for a D2a???

I am not a moderator, I am a human being!!!

Yes you can get them, I've seen a few DII with the ME Chicken wire / mesh grill.

[jimbob292]

I use it lately. Seems fine in my D2 V8. I replaced thermostat, pipes and fan clutch and did flush at 172,000 and the temps kept climbing...max of 108 one day so got a new OEM rad a few days ago and 98 max. Just added a TEFBA filter and (its not blocked no) max now 102 at idle, but straight back to 100 once thermos do their thing. I think it is just the filter element, so no problems with that. If I go hard core offroading I will probably just remove the filter element, but because it does not go past 102, I suspect it will be fine just to leave it there too.

Cheers

What is your ignition timing should be 4 BTDC without cats, if its too advanced you'll end up lifting the water temp.

[ozscott]

No mechanical changes since new mate

Rest is electronic and out of my hands. Must have been a bit of air cause now she is running at 95 in same conditions that it was pulling 102. All good. Cheers