Best (economic) engine for a LWB series hardtop?

[pfillery]

I currently have a 186 red motor in my 109" series 3. The vehicle was originally a 6 cylinder. I'm looking at ways to improve the fuel economy - I use it as a daily driver doing about 90km round trip daily, 5 days a week. About 65km per day is highway driving, so in the interests of economy I sit on about 80km/h which seems to be a comfortable speed for the series without over revving the engine. I know these engines are thirsty, so contemplating putting it on gas while the rebate is around (will cost about $700 net but save half in fuel costs).

My question is whether there is another engine solution that could be done for close to the cost of gas that would be significantly cheaper to run than the 186 yet still give a good running speed without flogging the engine. I would rather go with something that is a bolt in solution to my series 3 gearbox than a full on conversion.

People say the revs of the 186 are not right for the series, but to do 80km/h would rev any engine the same assuming it was coupled to the same box, so thinking about a 4 cyl petrol landy engine, is this going to be a little underpowered and still a bit thirsty? And an original 6 in good condition would be hard to find, more work to maintain and probably no gain in economy.

I guess if I go gas and then change the engine it should be able to be connected to gas also, but would I gain any fuel savings by going to a 4 cyl? I don't know enough about diesels to contemplate fitting one of them, but the price of diesel is more than unleaded sometimes.

Very broad question I know, but I'm looking at my options because while I love my series and love driving it every day, my fuel bill is scary.

[bee utey]

I currently have a 186 red motor in my 109" series 3. The vehicle was originally a 6 cylinder. I'm looking at ways to improve the fuel economy - I use it as a daily driver doing about 90km round trip daily, 5 days a week. About 65km per day is highway driving, so in the interests of economy I sit on about 80km/h which seems to be a comfortable speed for the series without over revving the engine. I know these engines are thirsty, so contemplating putting it on gas while the rebate is around (will cost about $700 net but save half in fuel costs).

My question is whether there is another engine solution that could be done for close to the cost of gas that would be significantly cheaper to run than the 186 yet still give a good running speed without flogging the engine. I would rather go with something that is a bolt in solution to my series 3 gearbox than a full on conversion.

People say the revs of the 186 are not right for the series, but to do 80km/h would rev any engine the same assuming it was coupled to the same box, so thinking about a 4 cyl petrol landy engine, is this going to be a little underpowered and still a bit thirsty? And an original 6 in good condition would be hard to find, more work to maintain and probably no gain in economy.

I guess if I go gas and then change the engine it should be able to be connected to gas also, but would I gain any fuel savings by going to a 4 cyl? I don't know enough about diesels to contemplate fitting one of them, but the price of diesel is more than unleaded sometimes.

Very broad question I know, but I'm looking at my options because while I love my series and love driving it every day, my fuel bill is scary.

The 186 engine is already in there. Gas it and you will save money within a couple of months. Oh, and find a second hand gas kit at a wreckers. You could have it fitted at zero net cost to you. Gas conversions are at a low ebb at the moment, get in while there are bargains to be had. The petrol price may soon rocket with Gadaffi's antics.

Otherwise get a disco tdi engine that fits, the cost of its fuel is offset by an approximate doubling of efficiency over the 186. But it will take ages to recoup any engine conversion cost. However you will probably double the value of your vehicle as a turbo diesel.

BTW I still think you're mad commuting in a brick ****house. Get a Laser. On gas.:p:p:p

[mools]

What about an overdrive? I had a fairy one on a series three, but on a 2.25 petrol. I'm not really sure you'll save loads though; I think it'll drop you about half a gear in revs.

Don't seem to hear much about overdrives over here and judging by what there worth in the UK would probably cost more than gas anyway.

The most effective way I found to improve economy was to follow a lorry at a VERY short distance; not for the feint hearted, not very safe and probably not very practical for commuting either.

Ian.

[hesguitar]

What about an Isuzu 4JB1 or 4JG2 engine? I was looking in to an engine conversion as well (I've got a LR 6 on gas) and was seriously considering getting a kit from M&D engineering in england. Their Isuzu kit seemed like the best option as the engines have been in production for a long time and they're in every second holden rodeo so there's loads around to scavenge from.

[Dougal]

What about an Isuzu 4JB1 or 4JG2 engine? I was looking in to an engine conversion as well (I've got a LR 6 on gas) and was seriously considering getting a kit from M&D engineering in england. Their Isuzu kit seemed like the best option as the engines have been in production for a long time and they're in every second holden rodeo so there's loads around to scavenge from.

The 3 litre 4JH1 is the best of those engines. Later so more refined than the 4JB1T but still mechanical control and direct injection unlike the 4JG2.

[mark2]

A high ratio transfer case works well with a Holden 6. It will help economy and make cruising at 100 much more pleasant. Plus low range is unaffected, unlike with a 3.54 diff change. But as said, why not buy a cheap japanese 4 banger for a commuter? For the cost of a diesel conversion you'd get a decent 4cyl with air con. And a diesel conversion will still need ratio changes.

[clubagreenie]

What about just throwing some RR diffs in? Unless you have a salisbury back end it would be cheap.

[Blknight.aus]

find and drop in the tdi200 and wind the fuel/boost way back.

[d2dave]

find and drop in the tdi200 and wind the fuel/boost way back.

Dave
Would a series gearbox handle the torque of a 200 tdi?

Dave.

[pfillery]

I just got rid of my crappy 4 banger when I registered the landy - the cost of buying another car, $600 plus per year to register, another $150 per year for bomb insurance, and I spent more time under the bonnet of my barina in a month than I've spent under the bonnet of the landy in 6 months. Cost me more to repair than the landy too.

Trouble is, I'd take the train if it was significantly cheaper, but it takes longer by train than by car, would cost close to $60 a week to commute by train with travel to and from the station not included, plus a 15 minute walk to work at the other end because they won't let me take my bicycle on the train. My weekly fuel bill currently isn't much over this but the convenience of the car is an obvious benefit.

[PAT303]

3.54 diffs. Pat

[PhilipA]

I just got rid of my crappy 4 banger when I registered the landy - the cost of buying another car, $600 plus per year to register, another $150 per year for bomb insurance, and I spent more time under the bonnet of my barina in a month than I've spent under the bonnet of the landy in 6 months

I take it that was a Spanish Barina .
If you want reliability buy a Japanese car. I bought an 85 Camry on behalf of my daughter 1 year ago with 340KK on it and it goes perfectly.
We also handed down a 92 Mazda 121 now with over 200 Kk with NO problems except for wear and tear . No BS like a Barina with the stupid EGR valve.
Look I will be radical here and suggest a Holden 3.8 V6 with 3.54 diffs. The higher diffs will protect the transmission somewhat, you can get parts anywhere and they are very cheap. They also are children of the 3.5 V8 so have some Land Rover cred. It will certainly cruise at 100Kmh plus easily.
Regards Philip A

[milld]

my dad put an 18R Toyota engine in his, an amazing little engine, needed the reves but could still tow another series 3 lwb across the tanami desert to save on fuel lol. Not sure on what box he used though, might have to ask him.

[clubagreenie]

18r is an awesome motor. Used for anything from truck to hiluxes to celicas. Twin cam version also available. Be interested in how it was adapted.

[bee utey]

OK if you are suggesting Toy engines go the 22R 2.4 litre engine. Extremely robust, many examples I have seen in Hiluxes are pushing 350,000km. Fitted up to the mid 90's. 18R's are getting long in the tooth.

[Dougal]

Look I will be radical here and suggest a Holden 3.8 V6 with 3.54 diffs. The higher diffs will protect the transmission somewhat, you can get parts anywhere and they are very cheap. They also are children of the 3.5 V8 so have some Land Rover cred. It will certainly cruise at 100Kmh plus easily.
Regards Philip A

I've never heard the 3.8 v6 being offered as "economical" before. The thirstiest cars I've driven were powered by those. 16 litres per 100km in a commodore.:o

[frantic]

You've got a 186 put it on gas and within 6 months it will have paid for itself, with the $$ you are now saving buy a fairey O/D unit and plan to rebuild the 186 in about 5 years or if your proactive get an old block and fit hardened valve seats and piston rings so you can run it on gas.
Another alternative is get a newer engine(now or in the future) and put it on gas as any engine designed to run on unleaded will run fine on gas as unleaded(the same as gas) does not provide a lube like the old leaded engines needed. Another bonus is that your engine will run a bit cooler on gas. Dont buy the valve lube if you put in a unleaded engine as it's just a sales gimick. The main thing to do is if you do switch to gas always fill the petrol up with premium and throw in some wynn's spitfire(octane boost) occasionally because if your like me you will run on gas 95% and only fill up the petrol every 4-6 weeks, so this stops the petrol from going off to much, and makes it closer to the lpg octane(higher than pulp) rating so easier to tune.

[PhilipA]

I've never heard the 3.8 v6 being offered as "economical" before. The thirstiest cars I've driven were powered by those. 16 litres per 100km in a commodore.:o

You must have a lead foot.
I have seen in the 9s on cruise in a Commodore wagon.( and down to 7s in a 3.6)
You do know that they lean out progessively on cruise until they are running in the 15 or 16 to 1. That is why the first time you accelerate after cruise they are really doughy.
Around town is different if you use the power but AFAIR the poster was talking highway cruise.
And there are many people around who can adapt the ECU.
Regards Philip A

[Dougal]

You must have a lead foot.
I have seen in the 9s on cruise in a Commodore wagon.( and down to 7s in a 3.6)
You do know that they lean out progessively on cruise until they are running in the 15 or 16 to 1. That is why the first time you accelerate after cruise they are really doughy.
Around town is different if you use the power but AFAIR the poster was talking highway cruise.
And there are many people around who can adapt the ECU.
Regards Philip A

That was the average for a work car that a boss commuted in. On a 30km run out of town it I couldn't get it below 12 litres per 100km. That's in a car, I shudder to think what it would drink in a landrover.

If you're looking to save fuel the answer is always direct injection diesel.

[isuzurover]

That was the average for a work car that a boss commuted in. On a 30km run out of town it I couldn't get it below 12 litres per 100km. That's in a car, I shudder to think what it would drink in a landrover.

If you're looking to save fuel the answer is always direct injection diesel.

Dad had a VN commodore for years with a 3.8 V6 - did over 300000 km in it. The VN's were also pre ecotech (fuel efficient) versions. Dad is a leadfoot, but economy on the highway was 8-9 l/100, and 12-13 or less around town.

[Blknight.aus]

Dave
Would a series gearbox handle the torque of a 200 tdi?

Dave.


find and drop in the tdi200 and wind the fuel/boost way back.

Yes.

[Dougal]

This was a VY. The company had two of them, fuel economy was no different between them.
I see wikipedia (which is as accurate as any other blog) claims 12 litres/100km, the 3.8 V6 saving 1 litre/100km over the 5.7 V8 manual. Holden VY Commodore - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Holden_VY_Berlina_01.jpg" class="image" title="Holden VY Berlina"><img alt="Holden VY Berlina" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/17/Holden_VY_Berlina_01.jpg/250px-Holden_VY_Berlina_01.jpg"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/1/17/Holden_VY_Berlina_01.jpg/250px-Holden_VY_Berlina_01.jpg

Forum claims run from 15 litres/100km to under 7 litres/100km for the same car with V8 and V6 drivers not much different. Apparently a pod filter can save you 5 litres/100km. :angel: Fuel Consumption. (http://forums.justcommodores.com.au/vy-holden-commodore-2002-2004/4204-fuel-consumption.html)

[milld]

I've got a VZ wagon for work car and I'ts hard to get over 400km out of 60L of fuel around town. Leaving the power button on I get around 370km out of it. A total different story if doing a long trip on highway. Quite easy to get well over 600km. I guess I do have a slight heavy foot lol, but even if I'm careful it's not much better.

[frantic]

Weight, gearing and how heavy your foot is all contribute to the final figure.
In my old 94VR 5.0 v8 statesman(auto) we where getting 11.5-12.5l/100k's with around town and highway(as low as9.5-10 on long trips) driving but in the 98 3.4v6 prado(5spd man) on lpg it was between 16.5 and 18l /100k's but at less than 1/2 the price off petrol it was the same cost as my sisters corrolla /100k's for fuel:). My wifes old 04prado 4.0v6 man was on LPG injection so no backfiring EVER and got 14-15l/100k's and virtually no power difference between gas and petrol:D but gas was a bit noisier from the engine bay.

[milld]

I spoke to my dad tonight and he mated the 18r to a hilux gearbox and transefer case back in 1984. He did the work himself and thought it would be a good conversion and to him it was. But yeah, the later 2.4 would be great.

[parasnoop67]

My daily driver is a 92 Hi Ace with a 2RZ 2.4 petrol and 5spd. manual. Had it for 17 years and the motot was replaced at 454000, after a cook up at 235 due to cracked radiator.(wallaby)
Always thought that motor would be good for 4wd as it is very smooth low down in the revs and pulls like a (small) tractor.
Van usually has around 500-700kgs on board and does around 12l-100k

[4x4_bugsy]

If your not planning t d much hard off road work perhaps you could fit 3.54 diff ratios? Makes it much nicer on the highway, just not so grunty off road.