D2 Vs P38, the P38 side

[Marshall]

OK, as the thread implies, I want to know why I would buy a P38 instead of a D2... I expect a biased view here:angel: but am still looking for the usual things... reliabilty, comfort, offroadability, allrounder. I won't be doing river crossings where I need scuba gear, but would still like to go around Oz with no worries.
I have posted this on the D2 site as well...

[redandy3575]

OK, as the thread implies, I want to know why I would buy a P38 instead of a D2... I expect a biased view here:angel: but am still looking for the usual things... reliabilty, comfort, offroadability, allrounder. I won't be doing river crossings where I need scuba gear, but would still like to go around Oz with no worries.
I have posted this on the D2 site as well...

Well marshall....what can i say without opening a can of worms:D

Personally i'm a german recent defected british automotive Range Rover fan. My farther being German himself almost disowned me when i told him that i bought a P38 Range Rover. But....nevertheless they are the best off-road vehicle that not even the Germans could better, equaling it at best. I think the Range Rover is the better engineered vehicle over the D2 as it has a more advanced suspension system which clearly shows when your off-road. They're also more reliable due to the fact that no expenses were spared when building the Range Rover. I might be new to Land Rover but i have studied their history for quiet some time and have been an RR fan since i was 6 years old and ....yes you guessed correct....living in Germany, so DON"T MENTION ZE WAR. But no seriously, the disco is similar in the sense that it is build on the same chassis as the classic range rover, where's the p38 is a generation ahead and is more comfortable, more powerful if you choose the 4.6lt V8, as well as more luxurious.

The downside though is that the P38 has less aftermarket accessories to add to it. Not that you need to much to the P38 anyway, as they are a very off-road capable vehicle to begin with, more so than a Toyota Landcruiser...(DOHHHH!!!! i said it again) straight out of a box.

That's my 2 cent worth

[PaulP38a]

We could talk at length about the virtues and foibles of the P38 suspension, ride, mechanicals and electrics... same for D2's. Both are great cars and will easily get you around the country in comfort and reliability if you maintain them properly and prepare yourself for the trip.

However, I suggest you drive a 2000 model Disco (TD5 or V8) and then drive a 2000 model P38 4.6 V8. Take both for a drive on the highway at 110Kph, practice overtaking Landcruisers, Patrols and X5's. Then go for a run on corrugations. For good measure, find a steep hill and god up then down again. Find some mud and see what the diffs and TC can do, even with road tyres.

If you decide that the Disco is the more comfortable and capable vehicle, I am impressed and respect your choice.

Most likely outcome... like the rest of us here you'll be hooked on the P38 and anything else is a compromise.

Cheers, Paul.

[Grumbles]

No contest in my book- P38 all the way. But with my long wheel base LSE Classic a close second [had to add this - couldn't help myself....lol] :D

[ytt105]

Agree with everything Paul, and others have said. Range Rovers just have something over their Disco brothers.

But, one of the major issues for me is that STUPID single swing door!

I've never had a vehicle that has a door like that, but many friends do. I will never have one.

Stuff falls out when you open it, and you can't generally open it fully when you have any sort of trailer/van connected.

Just stupid!

[redandy3575]

Agree with everything Paul, and others have said. Range Rovers just have something over their Disco brothers.

But, one of the major issues for me is that STUPID single swing door!

I've never had a vehicle that has a door like that, but many friends do. I will never have one.

Stuff falls out when you open it, and you can't generally open it fully when you have any sort of trailer/van connected.

Just stupid!

I agree with that.......Just stupid!!

[Hoges]

If you buy the P38, add $1,500 or so to the budget and purchase a netbook ($350-$400) running XP and a Faultmate (basic model). On the netbook you can load all the common problems and fixes from Range Rovers (http://www.rangerovers.net) plus 2,500 pages of workshop/overhaul/electrical from RAVE...all in searchable pdf format, plus the free EAS fault reading/re-set/calibration software available from Storey Wilson's website.

Netbook and Faultmate (just) fit in the glovebox. you now have almost total transparency into the faults/foibles of the P38... should they arise.

As P38s are built like a Meccano Set, most jobs, barring catastrophic failure, can be fixed beside the road / in a caravan park /under a tree....
with the current FOREX rates for the GBP, you can purchase spare parts at up to 60% discount on local prices, including airfreight and delivered to your door in 5 days from reputable UK suppliers...

What you might spend over a year will be a fraction of the depreciation you would otherwise lose in purchasing a new vehicle.

Try and get a good late 1999 model if you can with the Bosch upgrade (Thor engine) (from VIN 410482 onwards).

good luck

[DT-P38]

YEP... what they said!

Out of the box, P38 off road ability is pretty bloody awesome. Put some muds on and you will be surprised how far you go - unmodified.

On road there really isn't a competition. all the disco really has to its clear advantage is the 7 seat option and possibility of an oil burner (if thats your cup of tea). The seat can be done in a p38, you just gotta be patient and keep an eye on flea-bay for matching secondhand dickie seats. Realistically, forget a P38 diesel unless you wanna import

From what I've read and been told over the years of LR ownership, it really doesn't matter, with either your bound to be digging deep and pulling your hair out for a long time!!!

Good luck either way

[wanglemoose]

you should test drive both to see what you feel more comfortable in, but it mostly depends on what sorta 4wding you want to do with it. ive owned a d2 and now my p38 and the rangie is more capable as a standard vehicle but if you want to do some real 4wding they both have to be modified, the rr is much harder to extensively modify than the d2 and i swear mine was made exclusively out of parts from the rr experimental bin. the rr is hugely more stable than the d2 aswell.

[Marshall]

OK, so far, it would seem P38ers are a lot more enthousiastic than D2ers, and I am definately leaning that way. The only reasons I would go D2 is the ground clearance and the availabilty of aftermarket stuff... BUT, I do like the latest bar for the P38 from Hard Range Australia | Range Rover and other Land Rover Parts, http://hardrange.com (http://hardrange.com/) albeit very expensive ($1870). where would a dual battery system fit in a P38?

A D2er commented: "The EAS and the HVAC systems on the P38A will be big ticket repair items and could "let you down" (pardon the pun) if you are miles away from nowhere. Also, the DII would have a real center diff lock (if equipped) whereas the P38A has an arguably less effective viscous coupling."
What are your comments on this?

So far so good for the P38 camp:D

[Junosi]

The only reasons I would go D2 is the ground clearance and the availabilty of aftermarket stuff. Where would a dual battery system fit in a P38?

A D2er commented: "The EAS and the HVAC systems on the P38A will be big ticket repair items and could "

Does a D2 have better ground clearance ? :eek: On high setting the P38 is quite high and diff clearance depends on your tyre choice. Main thing lacking in aftermarket parts in my mind is a winch bar, which Hardrange can cover - or you could make up your own removable winch system like mine using an off the shelf winch tray (like Warn or Tigerz) and fitting a front receiver. See http://www.aulro.com/afvb/p38a-range-rover/118757-removable-winch-mount.html

Couple of places you can fit a dual battery system. I've got a redarc isolator installed next to the standard battery and a second (AGM) battery where the tool set/jack normally goes in the spare tyre well. I've seen some photos of people with Thor engines modifying the original battery area and putting two in there - Thors have more room there to play with, mine is a GEMS. I've got an lpg tank in my wheel well, but would fit even easier with just the standard spare tyre in there.

EAS isn't a big ticket repair in my mind. Every 12-15 years or so you can probably assume you need to replace the airbags - they are just rubber after all. A set of four new ones is around $800-1000 - every 15 years .... not expensive as a repair item. Valve block similarly needs maintenance by replacing its seals from time to time - seal kit is very cheap and takes a couple of hours of your time. HVAC is a bit more complex with its blend motors etc but using UK eBay parts are quite cheap and after that it's just your time to fix it.

[RoverHse]

I did my first attempt at a storage/ battery set-up for my load space. Don't laugh, it's the first attempt, and my imagination might have outstripped my ability. I have a 110A/h sealed battery in a box installed in the nook behind the panel on the right.

Once the planned bigger tyres come on it would probably be relocated into the spare wheel well.

[adm333]

All other technical stuff aside....

I am quite tall, and I have never been physically comfortable in a D2.

For me it always feels like the seat should go back a couple of more notches. The footwell also seems narrower.

If long distance trips is what you are doing, you will be infinitely more comfortable in a P38.

I also agree that the EAS is no longer black magic. Its a simple set of components that are easy to understand and easy to maintain.

Dave

[Marshall]

I did my first attempt at a storage/ battery set-up for my load space. Don't laugh, it's the first attempt, and my imagination might have outstripped my ability. I have a 110A/h sealed battery in a box installed in the nook behind the panel on the right.

Once the planned bigger tyres come on it would probably be relocated into the spare wheel well.

No laughing matter, that looks the goods! Well done!

[Keithy P38]

I'll add my bit!

Search on youtube - P38 Range Rover! I've got a few videos on there and I know there are a few lads from this forum who do as well! There will also be some D2's on youtube, so you'll be able to see them in action and decide from that too!

Mine goes "proper" off-road most weekends and i'm the lead car every time - pulling out nissans! Only mod to mine is a set of BF Goodrich KM2's and it's transformed it from capable to virtually un-stoppable!

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/182930_10150134816570190_634315189_8264485_7550775 _n.jpg

Cheers
Keithy

[Aussie]

Marshall go buy a jap truck mate, these things are shockers. Trust me I loved mine to death and it just kept coming back to bite me time after time. You won't find a better vehicle comfort wise but it comes at a huge price

[DT-P38]

Not everyones life experiences are 100% positive, but I guess you gotta listen to their opinions... I suppose not everyone is cut out to be a RR owner either. However, the massively clear majority of owners I have met love these cars and the entire experience of them not just the 'good days'.

Most agree that you need to be up for maintaining them, checking under the bonnet every week or so and doing a bit of work yourself. Dealers costs will hurt if you get everything fixed there, however, plenty of cheaper parts and DIY fixes are available here at AULRO.

For what its worth, we have both a P38 and a 100 series landcruiser and though the 8 seater is essential for our family at times, both my Mrs and I take the P38 as the preferred drive everytime (on and off road).

[81stubee]

If you couldn't care less about your car and you just want a shiny toy, then go buy something else.

Everybody seems to bag the crap out of me saying how unreliable my P38 is and that I should have brought a nistoy.

-I have had the engine rebuilt twice, and needs to be done a third time. Now is that because its a range rover? or is it the engine builders fault?
-I have had the gearbox rebuilt once and it still sticks when cold in first. Now is that because its a range rover? or is it the gearbox builders fault?
-I buggered a set of tyres because the Viscous coupling seized (270,00kms). Now is that because its a range rover? or is it because i didn't check the coupling?
-I cooked my motor because I didn't keep the cooling system up to scratch. Now is that because its a range rover? or is it a maintenance fault?

Seriously, once you get over the initial quirks and idiosyncrasies of a P38, your left with a good car that just wants to be looked after. Where a jap car will allow you to run it into the ground, a rangie will stop if you don't look after it.

It is seriously like the saying, "you don't buy a range rover, you adopt one"

If somebody came to me in the street and said "What's a good mid to late 90's 4WD to buy?" I wouldn't reccomend a rangie. If someone said "I really like the shape, style and character of a P38, should i get one?" I would direct them here.

Sorry, it just irks me when people make completely negative and unhelpful comments.

Stu

P.S. Mine has done 289,000kms, and my friends still say its the most comfortable car they've travelled long distances in.

[Marshall]

Stu, it sounds like you have had an abnormally bad run with your rangie, I hope it picks up for you.

Comparing the 2 posts I put up (this one and the "same" one on the D2 side) The only real reason you would get a D2 is the availability of after market stuff and possibly a tad more storage space, for the rest, P38s seem to be just as capable, more comfortable and hell, they cost $120,000 new!

Horses for Courses, I have weighed up the info I have recieved and I am going to buy a rangie!
(Get ready to keep the advice coming:angel:)

Thanks to all RR AND D2ers for your help, they are both still great trucks and I will be the idiot in a rangie waving :D

[81stubee]

Stu, it sounds like you have had an abnormally bad run with your rangie, I hope it picks up for you.

Oh, don't worry about that, it will get better :bat:. I don't give up, if someone does the wrong thing by me I will go after them until they tell me to F Off, then I will take them to court and sue for everything (Can I sue for damages to the Range Rover reputation?) :D

Good luck on the purchase, the only way you can go wrong is if both http://www.aulro.com (AULRO) and http://www.rangerovers.net (Rangerovers.net) go offline. And everybody loses their copy of RAVE.

Cheers Stu

[zuno555]

I did my first attempt at a storage/ battery set-up for my load space. Don't laugh, it's the first attempt, and my imagination might have outstripped my ability. I have a 110A/h sealed battery in a box installed in the nook behind the panel on the right.

Once the planned bigger tyres come on it would probably be relocated into the spare wheel well.


Don't laugh?? I am laughing at the fact you wrote that! Looks like a top effort for the storage system!! Well done.

[RFollia]

All other technical stuff aside....

I am quite tall, and I have never been physically comfortable in a D2.

For me it always feels like the seat should go back a couple of more notches. The footwell also seems narrower.

If long distance trips is what you are doing, you will be infinitely more comfortable in a P38.

I also agree that the EAS is no longer black magic. Its a simple set of components that are easy to understand and easy to maintain.

Dave

I agree with you about the cramped seating position.
I have a 300 Tdi RR Classic, a V8 D2, a V8 D3 and a Santana Series.

Even though the Rangie and D2 share wheelbase, dashboard (OK, the instrument binnacle is removable on the D2 and not on the Rangie), I never had problems finding my seating position in the Rangie, and I always missed a couple of inches legroom in the D2.

I had these doubts when I bought my D2 in 2004, and I still drool over any late model P38. Maybe I buy the P38 as well but some of the fleet will have to go.
The fact is when a P38 does want to go wrong, can go in many more ways the D2 can, because simply the D2 does not have these items fitted.

But I might end with a P38 in the short term, don't know which should I sacrifice the day I have to take the decision, but for sure won't be an easy one

Best regards

Robert