Removing Rear 90 Puma seats

[Drew90]

Anything to look out for? Do I need to put gromets on existing holes? Rust prrof on edges of holes?

Thanks Guys & Girls :D

[one_iota]

Thread relating to the removal of the two rear seats from a 7 seater 110 but the principle is the same:

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/81946-defender-puma-rear-seats.html#post1004014

[KarlB]

I just cover the holes in my D90 with squares of gaffer tape. I left the seatbelts because of the legal implications of removing them.

Cheers
KarlB
:)

[Magic]

x 2 like Karl.

[roverrescue]

But Karl...
By removing three seats your 90 is now not roadworthy.
It is capacity plated as 5 seats, unless you get it authorised and replated (blueplate) then just think of the insurance implications...

(see annoying it is ;))

Steve

[KarlB]

But Karl...
By removing three seats your 90 is now not roadworthy.
It is capacity plated as 5 seats, unless you get it authorised and replated (blueplate) then just think of the insurance implications...

(see annoying it is ;))

Steve

The requirement re seating capacity relates to the number of seatbelts fitted, not the number of 'cushions' etc. so I left the seat belts. I admit it is a grey area however, but made my decision in full knowledge of that.

What is annoying is that new (and old) forum members are encouraged (often inadvertently) to modify their vehicles without advising them of the implications of those modifications. If people want to put 40 inch tyres on, and have a 10 inch lift and remove the muffler or what ever, then that is fine as long as they are aware of the possible consequences. I recognise we all break the rules (at least a little) but should we encourage others to emulate our bad behaviour, and put themselves at risk?

Cheers
KarlB
:)

[roverrescue]

"The requirement re seating capacity relates to the number of seatbelts fitted"
Qld must be different to ACT then... need a blue plate to change number seats up here. Even pulling the rear seats from a 7 seater technically requires you to blue plate the vehicle.

-Not that I care.

-And not that any insurance company would care.

Your point about being aware of consequences is fine but IMHO by constantly banging on about insurance this and warranty that you underestimate the intelligence of people - even if one is "encouraged" to make mods seen on the internets, chances are they will actually check it for themselves. And this question about seating is a perfect example. Obviously in ACT it is "okay" to leave the belts in but in QLD it would require a blue plate and rego change irrespective of belts. Soooo share what you have done or experienced and let the details work themselves out.

Steve

[frantic]

Does it actually require a blue slip to remove the seats? The largest selling real 4x4 the toymotor playdough has had removable rear load area seats since it's introduction! All you needed to do was lift a clip and the main pivot bar attaching the seats to the L/R side of the load area detached and you where able to lift them straight out. (with the middle lap belt still attached to the seat;))
BOTH the VW multivan and the chrysler voyager have seats on rails with the seat belts incorporated that are designed to be removed completly from the van's so you can carry large loads or change from a 7 seater to a 3,4,5 seater with an enlarged load area. So to legally do this in Qld you would need to get a blue slip each time???? I can understand about messing with seat belt mounting points but as long as the bolts are left in the hole's to re- mount the seat there should be no problems, unless it's a govt. manager justifying his own job.

[one_iota]

I'm with the it'll-be-ok crowd.

If the terms "common sense" and "legislation" can be used in the same breath then surely the rule is about the maximum number of occupants that can be carried safely (i.e seat belted) in the vehicle.

If I fold my rear seats forward only two occupants can be carried but the vehicle is still capable of carrying 5 by reinstating the seats to their original position.

[roverrescue]

The legislation states the seats in vehicle have to match the compliance plate.
If they dont technically you need a blue plate to authorise the change to compliance plate.

If compliance says 7 seats but you have 5 technically you are no longer compliant.

I repeat I dont care, insurance wont care and I dont think anyone cares BUT it just highlights that the law is an ass!



Steve

[isuzurover]

The requirement re seating capacity relates to the number of seatbelts fitted, not the number of 'cushions' etc. so I left the seat belts. I admit it is a grey area however, but made my decision in full knowledge of that.

Sorry Karl, but you are incorrect.

Have a read of the NCOP (already adopted in ACT). It lists strict requirements for the "cushions"
http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/vehicle_regulation/bulletin/pdf/NCOP7_Section_LK_Seating_and_Occupant_Protection_1 Jan2011_v2.pdf

You are permitted to remove seats temporarily (i.e. to transport bulky items), however if it has been deemed that you have removed the seats permanently, your vehicle will be defected and you will require modification approval for reduced seating capacity.

A number of people who have been defected for this - especially those who have fridges or drawers where the seats normally go (even if they argue that they remove them between trips).

This applies in all states AFAIK. Even for vehicles where you can remove the seats without tools. How well it is enforced however varies between states.

[roverrescue]

Well how about that - maybe someone does care ;) Bored transport officers!!!

S

[Drew90]

WEEEEEEEOOOOOOOOOOWWWWEEEEEOOOOOOO

I think I hear the Fun Police again.

Dear tax paying hard working Australian.... Sorry but because no one these days can be responsible for their own actions we have to make laws deciding what every can and can't do. Your currently eating with your fork incorrectly, I going to have to fine you.

OVER IT.

[LouisW]

I have just ordered a new 90 and DONT need or want the rear seats. I have no intentions of ever selling it.

My question is if I register the car new as TWO seater. After the dealer has removed the rear seats and seat-belts. Do I still need a blue slip as a modification? Has anyone done this in before ?

IMHO I think the 90 looks stupid with the rear seats the Defender was never intended to be a 4 seater that's why there is a 110. Why land rover don't give you the option not to have rear seat baffles me.

Regs Louis.

[FeatherWeightDriver]

Pretty sure you can't register a new 90 as a 2 seater, as the compliance plate will say 4 seater. What is the upside of registering as a 2 seater?

Either way just because it has compliance as a 4 seater, that does not stop you ripping out the back 2 seats and leaving them out.

The only downside I can think of the usual hassles of putting a tethered child seat in, but that's an issue with all Defenders as is anyway...

[isuzurover]

...

My question is if I register the car new as TWO seater. After the dealer has removed the rear seats and seat-belts. Do I still need a blue slip as a modification? Has anyone done this in before ?

...


As above, the issue is what is on the compliance plate. So unless the dealer can deliver the vehicle with a compliance plate that says 2 seater then you need modification approval.

[weeds]

Just rip the seats out..........and get out and use it.

There must be a thousand rigs out there with seats removed......

Not sure we have to bash on about legalities over and over in the one thread. Agree always good to highlight it once to the OP just in case he is un-aware, than leave it to the owner to make the call.

[defender_i_hardly_know_er]

After removing the rear seats in mine - Vicroads said I *could* have it changed to say 2 Seats, but there was no reason to - and in case I ever put them back it would be easier.

I also called my insurer (AAMI) and asked them if there were any implications. They thought I was doing to become a courier and were more concerned about the purpose of the vehicle (business use or whatever) - They then said no issues and we've made a note in my file to say as such.

So yeah - just do it.

[LouisW]

So to Summarise:

It's not legal but someone (The Bill) will need to be really pedantic to stop and fine you.


Rip them out; keep them; keep quite and get on with Life!

My take is - there seems to be a lot of pain and burocracy in complying to eliminate a very low risk?

Thanks Guys

[Leroy_Riding]

Ill answer from the original question, and disregard the whole legal argument.

i pulled the rears out of my 90 nearly as soon as I got it home, my rear draw system is near enough to permanently mounted (carpet glued over bolt holes and screws) I purchased the car with the intention of never using the rears, like Karl B i left the seat belts as I understood this to be the 'legal' requirement however I am unsure. I have been pulled over many a time for RBT's and one for speeding (oops!) and not once been questioned about the lack of rear seats in the car, I have been questioned over pushbikes obstructing number plate (now have a accessory plate) and about lack of mudflaps on my home built trailer (that has sharp edges and all still as its not finished but is registered and used!) but nothing about the draws.

so on that note.
remove the seats, if you are not putting draws in you can either gaffer tape over the holes or you can put the bolts back in. before i put my draws in i had the bolts in.
now with the home made draws in i use the lower seat bolts to hold the box in, and the seat belt bolts to hold the top in. all other holes are gaffer taped up with rubber over the top/under the draws to help with noise and vibration. the holes are all painted so no need to prime them or anything (well at least on mine they were?)

you will need torques bits to get them out though (star headed bits)

my 2c
Leroy.