New Apprentice

[El Duderino]

Well, as the title suggests, there's a new apprentice arriving at work. I'm in the auto-industry at a prestige euro-car brand, and have always been a mechanic, but have only been in parts dept for a year as a manager (at a Darwin dealership mostly). After 2 months in Melbourne with a new marque, etc, I have my first ever exclusive grasshopper starting monday.

Having gone through the hoops of being an apprentice years ago, I have a fair idea of what to do and how to look after the young fella (the right way), but would love to hear some advice and stories from those who have been in similar situations. Being given this opportunity so soon, I want to do this perfectly...this means a LOT to me. :)

Share and regale please! :D

[D I]

I own a mechanic shop, and went through 6 apprentices before I found the right one.

I've found that the attitude of "kids today"....geez that makes me sound old:D leaves a lot to be desired.

Advice? Not really....you'll know what to do. It's hard to teach someone who isn't doing what they want to do, if that makes sense. A lot of them seem to have trouble starting on the bottom.

Get him on the broom....teach him the importance of cleanliness in the shop. But on the flip side....give him the big jobs that apprentices normally wouldn't get. Stand over his shoulder and guide him, you get to stay clean, he gets to learn.

My first day as an apprentice I ripped an engine out of an MS83 Toyota and rebuilt it. My Jedi Master smoked two packs of winnie reds a day and drank about 4 litres of coffee....his favourite saying was "work it out" :cool:

Try not to treat him too much like an apprentice....unless of course he deserves it lol.

[3toes]

Get him on the broom....teach him the importance of cleanliness lol.

OK you lot do any of you gave a drivers license? To a group of 17 and 18 year olds. The one who put his hand up was handed a broom and told to drive it around the room until it was clean. Never forgotten that one as no one saw it coming.








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[blitz]

I'm now a trainer and have been for the last 12 years. Probably one of the biggest gripes I hear from the apprentices is that they dont get enough explanations (why) that go with the job - dont over load him with information and dont keep it from him.

Explaining why we do what we do, is one of the most important skills of a tradesperson to pass on so that they understand when it comes time to diagnose a fault they have an understanding of why. Otherwise we are training parts replacers that just keep swapping bits until it works.

Another one is because they are begining they are treated like they are stupid or just cheap labour - yes workshop cleanliness is vital and provides a safe workplace but they shouldn't have to clean up everyones mess, sweep the floor at the end of the day, keep their area clean fine but not 8 hours of it as some have complained about to me.

They are the future of our country, if we treat them with respect they will treat us the same.

My final words are "I've never had a problem student; I've had students with problems" If there is attitude or issues this is a causal effect based on some other problem they have, help them to work through their problem and you no longer have a student with attitude or issues.

[Bigbjorn]

Don't forget to give him the traditional welcoming ceremony for a new apprentice. Usually involves the application of grease and/or swarf to body parts.

[BigJon]

Don't forget to give him the traditional welcoming ceremony for a new apprentice. Usually involves the application of grease and/or swarf to body parts.

Worst advice so far in this thread.

[Ausfree]

Yeah, I agree, I thought that sort of stuff went out of fashion 20 years ago. Besides, isn't it illegal nowadays!!;)

[isuzurover]

Worst advice so far in this thread.

Indeed - but Brian is a dinosaur so probably hasn't heard that these days the supervisor will likely end up as Bubba's "apprentice" (without the benefit of grease) if he tries things like that.

El-Dude - so is he an apprentice mech or an apprentice parts interpreter? (if there is such a thing?) I would try and instill in him the advantages of the profession if he works hard and is contientious - which will hopefully inspire him to do well.

As mentioned, if he shows sufficient initiative and capability, allow him lots of opportunities to do higher level stuff, so he doesn't get too bored (with floor sweeping).

[DiscoMick]

Send him to the parts department for a long weight. :)

[IGL002]

Teach him that making mistakes is not the end of the world and to own up if he stuffs up.
Nothing worse than someone covering up their sins just to stay out of the ****...

[Ausfree]

Send him to the parts department for a long weight. :)
Or a left handed spanner!!!:D

[alittlebitconcerned]

The fact that you are even posing the question suggests to me you already have what it takes to live up to your position. Good luck and enjoy teaching, it is very rewarding.

[Bigbjorn]

Worst advice so far in this thread.

Lighten up, fellows, and get a sense of humour. Don't you know a joke when you see one.

Greasing etc. of apprentices pretty much died in Qld. about 1959-60 after the mother of an apprentice boilermaker at Evans Deakin shipyard sued the company for damages on behalf of her under 21 son and won substantial damages. He was the only apprentice who drove to classes at the CTC in a new MGA Twin Cam.

Likewise I hope the days when apprentices were routinely given a cuff around the ears or a solid boot up the bum are long gone.

Apprentices are supposed to work under direction and under the supervision of a time served tradesman. Unless you are personally accepting the role of apprentice master, then your major problem is finding tradesmen who accept that it is their responsibility and part of their job description to train and supervise apprentices. Far too many regard this duty as a burden and do not perform well in the master role.

[blitz]

Apprentices are supposed to work under direction and under the supervision of a time served tradesman. Unless you are personally accepting the role of apprentice master, then your major problem is finding tradesmen who accept that it is their responsibility and part of their job description to train and supervise apprentices. Far too many regard this duty as a burden and do not perform well in the master role.


So true Brian - a complaint I hear from industry is that they cant find good tradespersons - yet the people who whinge are often the very ones who have no time for apprentices???

I have devoted my work life to training the very best tradespersons I am able to. i am also now on the national training advisory council for my trade, so it is something that i am very committed to; Yes Brian joked about the grease, unfortunately there are still some out there that still actually believe that this is an acceptable way to treat someone.

Bottom line just treat them with respect as an equal that doesn't have your knowledge or experience and the dignity accorded to someone who wants to learn your trade.

[scarry]

So true Brian - a complaint I hear from industry is that they cant find good tradespersons - yet the people who whinge are often the very ones who have no time for apprentices???


X2

And the other issue,particularly in our trade is the customer doesn't want to pay for the apprentice.


I still can't find that tin of elbow grease.....

[land864]

I'm in the plumbing industry.

If you tell him when he mucks up make sure you tell him/her equally when they do good.

Not false bs praise but fair dinkum recognition of a job well done.
Especially when they show some initiative. Sounding old as well but it seems to be something thats missing from this current generation.

Make sure you tell your boss too.

If you've done well , in 4 years time you should be right to either retire or move up :)

[abaddonxi]

Good idea to work out how they learn stuff. Some do best by taking it apart, some by explanation, some by pictures or notes. If you work one way and they work another you're both going to end up confused until you sort it out.

[El Duderino]

Firstly, I want to thank everyone for their input so far! As you can understand, having an apprentice to take care of is a big responsibility...not just teaching him, but the paperwork, etc. It's my first time having this opportunity, and I want to do it properly, teach the young fella all that I can impart, and keep him interested/motivated. :D


El-Dude - so is he an apprentice mech or an apprentice parts interpreter? (if there is such a thing?)

I realised just now that I hadn't been clear enough, my bad! The apprentice is to eventually be a Parts Interpreter. I'll explain the situation up to date...

I'm a factory qualified BMW technician who's also worked at Jaguar. After having a forced 2.5yrs off for constant surgeries (LONG story), I made the switch to the parts department for BMW in Darwin...a change of scenery was needed after that chapter of life! After a while, I got head-hunted to move back to Vic and have been at Volvo for 2 months running the parts dept for their #1 site in the country. From what the senior managers, all the way through to the mechanics n sales guys reckon, I'm doing way better than they ever imagined...and this is how I came to be given an apprentice so soon.

As you can see, I never did the Parts Interpreters course, but the previous industry experience has made it relatively easy. I'm in the throws of getting the qualification through IBL at the min. I've picked up a LOT about Volvo's in a short space of time, because I have such a great crew to work with...the best bunch of people I've ever worked with, full support, and it's an environment that is to dream of. Understandably though, I am by no means an expert on Volvo atm. Each marque has their quirks, terminology, software, processes and ways of doing things! :P

Not having a yard-stick against my predecessor, I do my absolute best each day. Admittedly, I have a hint of self-doubt because I'm so new to the marque, whereas I know BMW intimately through that "tool-time"...not knowing every answer automatically does take some adjustment! Hehe! Having said that, the feedback, encouragement, and the way my workmates have instantly included me suggests I've got nothing to worry about.

Anyway, back to the apprentice!!! I was really lucky to be paired up with people who were respectful, willing to show/teach, and let me get me stuck into jobs. I never got treated like **** once during my time, and he'll defo receive every bit of courtesy and respect at all times, just like I had. Having the opportunity to impart as much knowledge as possible is awesome, so I want to keep the young fella interested and keen to stick with it! :D

[El Duderino]

Not false bs praise but fair dinkum recognition of a job well done. Especially when they show some initiative. Sounding old as well but it seems to be something thats missing from this current generation.

Make sure you tell your boss too.

Josh (our 2nd year mech apprentice) has impressed me a LOT...with his maturity, knowledge, efficiency and attitude. In conversation with my boss, I mentioned about how amazing he was, esp on a VERY busy day last week. It was only then that I learned he was still an apprentice! I'd have never guessed, and have nothing but full respect for the lad! :D

The other guys in my department also have taken a shining to the way I run things and treat them...so much so that we shake hands starting and finishing the day, a "thankyou" is genuine, we make each other coffees, stand in and help without even being asked, and are a really slick unit full of laughter and professionalism. A customer today commented about how different my department was compared to the others...we were obviously busy, but there was always time for manners and genuine thanks between the team! She could hardly believe it! :P

[El Duderino]

The fact that you are even posing the question suggests to me you already have what it takes to live up to your position. Good luck and enjoy teaching, it is very rewarding.

Mate, that is one of the most encouraging things I've ever read tbh, thanks for the kind words. I really care and want to see the young fella succeed the whole way...there's a career at the end of the tunnel. I'll keep everyone posted on how he's progressing, and might need to bounce ideas around. :)

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Greasing etc. of apprentices pretty much died in Qld. about 1959-60

very much alive and well in NSW in the 70's,,, ;):mad:

[Bigbjorn]

very much alive and well in NSW in the 70's,,, ;):mad:

It probably went on in small shops for a good while, but the court case and judge's comment received wide publicity here in Qld. and management of major employer's of apprentices sat up and took notice, particularly as ED's had a cleanout of supervisors/managers for allowing this to occur and the consequent cost to the company.

It didn't hurt the lad's case that his family were owners of a well known manufacturing business, prominent citizens active in community affairs, well connected through the Grand Lodge and Anglican Church.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

maybe,,
but this place was big enough to have a Master of Apprentices---

[BigJon]

Lighten up, fellows, and get a sense of humour. Don't you know a joke when you see one.

.


Keep in mind Brian, when you type something online it is impossible to tell what your intentions are regarding making a joke unless it is crystal clear.

On another forum that I frequent italics are used if someone is making a joke or tongue in cheek comment. I think it is a great idea and saves a lot of confusion.

[Bigbjorn]

maybe,,
but this place was big enough to have a Master of Apprentices---

At ED's? You have to be joking. The place was a shambles and about as well organised as a Ferrari pit stop. I think the only time the yards made any money was on government cost plus work.

Other than government organisations, I don't think I ever came across a place with a "Master of Apprentices" in my time on the tools in Queensland. Or, for that matter, any place that had an internal apprentice school other than government. Most firms were too small for these luxuries and formal education was left to the technical colleges. On the job training was generally left to foremen and leading hands who often delegated to tradesmen, many of whom were resentful of the task.

The Apprenticeship Commission of those days did try hard and generally managed to check apprentice's log books and attempt to improve areas where their employer had shortcomings, often outposting apprentices to other employers where the missing bits could be imparted. No reflection on many employers, but often their business did not encompass the full range of trade tasks and skills.

The Commission also endeavoured to contact apprentices who had left their indenture master and discontinued their training in an attempt to find the problem and hopefully convince them to return perhaps with a new master.

The school leaving age then in Queensland was 14 years. You had boys starting apprenticeships aged 14 & 15 before they had any idea of what working was like or any idea what they might like to do or be. The very low wages in the first three years of a five year apprenticeship were a disincentive to stay. A first year junior clerk in the state public service got $15 a week compared with $5.50 for a first year boilermaker. Many apprentices came to dislike dirty or heavy or outdoor work and left. Most who walked away from their indentures did just that, did not turn up again, no notice.

[cewilson]

IMHO

1. Humour - you need it in a workplace and it makes it easier for an apprentice to feel they're part of the team;
2. Direct supervision where required - you'll always need that at the start even for the basics, but you can do it in a way where it's not 'in their face' so to speak;
3. If they need to do TAFE components - show an interest in it. That way they know you're keeping an eye on them but more importantly it's always amazing how much you forget yourself about the theory;
4. Most importantly know how to mentor - it's not just about the work a lot of the times. Younger ones are still growing up so to speak and it's amazing what they will confide in you over a work day or period. To a certain extent they will take what you say as gospel, so if you're going to give personal advice think before speaking.....


Good luck and I hope it all works out for you.



Cheers
Chris

[blitz]

As far as "initiations" go I was almost put on an assault charge when the drunken yobbos where I started my apprenticeship jumped me, stripped me naked, poured paint all over me then rolled me in crakker dust. I broke the bosses younger brothers jaw. and took out two of the tradesmen so that they had the next week off. AND they poured paint all over my car as well.

The station sargent knew me from my work listened to my story after the bosses complaint - the station sargent dragged him and his brother into his office, I never heard what happened but they were very different people when they came out.

funny that was the last initiation carried out there?

[Bigbjorn]

Firstly, I want to thank everyone for their input so far! As you can understand, having an apprentice to take care of is a big responsibility...not just teaching him, but the paperwork, etc. It's my first time having this opportunity, and I want to do it properly, teach the young fella all that I can impart, and keep him interested/motivated. :D



I realised just now that I hadn't been clear enough, my bad! The apprentice is to eventually be a Parts Interpreter. I'll explain the situation up to date...

I'm a factory qualified BMW technician who's also worked at Jaguar. After having a forced 2.5yrs off for constant surgeries (LONG story), I made the switch to the parts department for BMW in Darwin...a change of scenery was needed after that chapter of life! After a while, I got head-hunted to move back to Vic and have been at Volvo for 2 months running the parts dept for their #1 site in the country. From what the senior managers, all the way through to the mechanics n sales guys reckon, I'm doing way better than they ever imagined...and this is how I came to be given an apprentice so soon.

As you can see, I never did the Parts Interpreters course, but the previous industry experience has made it relatively easy. I'm in the throws of getting the qualification through IBL at the min. I've picked up a LOT about Volvo's in a short space of time, because I have such a great crew to work with...the best bunch of people I've ever worked with, full support, and it's an environment that is to dream of. Understandably though, I am by no means an expert on Volvo atm. Each marque has their quirks, terminology, software, processes and ways of doing things! :P

Not having a yard-stick against my predecessor, I do my absolute best each day. Admittedly, I have a hint of self-doubt because I'm so new to the marque, whereas I know BMW intimately through that "tool-time"...not knowing every answer automatically does take some adjustment! Hehe! Having said that, the feedback, encouragement, and the way my workmates have instantly included me suggests I've got nothing to worry about.

Anyway, back to the apprentice!!! I was really lucky to be paired up with people who were respectful, willing to show/teach, and let me get me stuck into jobs. I never got treated like **** once during my time, and he'll defo receive every bit of courtesy and respect at all times, just like I had. Having the opportunity to impart as much knowledge as possible is awesome, so I want to keep the young fella interested and keen to stick with it! :D

Interesting, your comments about the quality operation run by your current employer. I do know this, from owning a Volvo, that you never go near a Volvo dealer for parts unless they can't be obtained from wreckers, or after-market non-genuine (willfits as we used to call these in the truck business), or pirate importer. Volvo dealership parts prices are way past grossly excessive. One example I remember was a master cylinder, $640 from the Volvo dealer, $186 for the exact same item from an importer.