The Ashcroft Locker

[isuzutoo-eh]

Hi guys,
Lucky 8 just posted this video on youtube, of Ashcroft's new airlocker.
YouTube - Ashcroft New Air Locking Differential
Ashcroft's diff locker page is:
Ashcroft Transmissions (http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/index.php?act=viewCat&catId=87)

The price is cheaper than ARB 'Airleakers', $798US from Lucky 8s or £475 sterling from Ashcrofts themselves. Significantly cheaper than Maxi Drive.

Any thoughts on the design of these lockers compared to other selectable lockers on the market?

[BigJon]

Pretty good pricing and I would assume the quality is there. Ashcroft have a good reputation.

[VladTepes]

Looks like a copy of the ARB to me ?

AT least you can get bits for ARB lockers easily here - that would be diffferent.

[rick130]

Ian or Dave will probably be along shortly to announce it and answer any Q's.

The Ashcrofts are pretty good like that, and it's good PR :D

[Psimpson7]

Why would it be different Vlad? Postage is quick, and it probably wont need much in the way of repairs!

I know where my money will now go for lockers and it wont be ARB any more.

I reckon they will have a huge impact on the rover locker market!

[Hendrik]

I really like it, the "cage" locking mechanism looks really strong. I would buy one without the slightest hesitation, especially after seeing that price.

[101RRS]

Ian or Dave will probably be along shortly to announce it and answer any Q's.

The Ashcrofts are pretty good like that, and it's good PR :D

See here

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/marketplace-alerts/124177-new-ashcroft-air-locker.html

[ashtrans]

Hi,

the main difference between this and the older RD56 type ARB is the air feed,

the ARB can leak due to relying on a rotational air seal, ours does not, the piston is not spinning in the cylinder, it moves across when air is applied and the static piston pushes the rotation thrust ring which is fixed to the cage,

[ashtrans]

I really like it, the "cage" locking mechanism looks really strong. I would buy one without the slightest hesitation, especially after seeing that price.

thanks, and this price includes new OEM bearings fitted !

[wagoo]

Another nicely engineered product Dave, Ian. Are you going to do a Salisbury version?
Wagoo.

This really should be in general tech, not in these obscure Modified or Extreme Zones that hardly anyone reads!

[Presto]

Wish I'd have known you were developing this - would have waited for these instead of the ARB's I just fitted! :eek:

[isuzutoo-eh]

Mr Ashcroft, if you will:
Could these be (inexpensively/easily for a layman) set up to be vacuum operated instead of using compressed air?
What is the advised operating pressure?

I don't have onboard air but do have a plentiful supply of vacuum!

[ashtrans]

Mr Ashcroft, if you will:
Could these be (inexpensively/easily for a layman) set up to be vacuum operated instead of using compressed air?
What is the advised operating pressure?

I don't have onboard air but do have a plentiful supply of vacuum!

sorry no, compressed air only but due to having the non rotating seal we should have near zero air leaks so the 'compact' ARB air compressor should be adequate,

Dave

[wagoo]

Mr Ashcroft, if you will:
Could these be (inexpensively/easily for a layman) set up to be vacuum operated instead of using compressed air?
What is the advised operating pressure?

I don't have onboard air but do have a plentiful supply of vacuum!

I wouldn't think the piston area would be sufficient to operate the unit on engine vacuum. Besides, an on board air supply either belt driven or electric is a useful commodity to have for many reasons. You can't pump your tyres up with vacuum.
Wagoo.

[isuzurover]

Dave - this is fantastic news!!!

As Bill posted (but you may have missed) - Salisbury Version??? (preferably with a 1.5" 35-spline side gear option - there will be a HUGE market for these in the US!).

[isuzutoo-eh]

I wouldn't think the piston area would be sufficient to operate the unit on engine vacuum. Besides, an on board air supply either belt driven or electric is a useful commodity to have for many reasons. You can't pump your tyres up with vacuum.
Wagoo.

Hi Bill,
I do agree about on board air being useful, its just that I use an electric compressor that I don't want to permanently mount as I move it between vehicles.
Still, The Ashcroft locker has talked me out of the Detroit route, as long as a Sals version is made available.

Dave, thanks for the prompt reply.

[wagoo]

Hi Bill,
I do agree about on board air being useful, its just that I use an electric compressor that I don't want to permanently mount as I move it between vehicles.
Still, The Ashcroft locker has talked me out of the Detroit route, as long as a Sals version is made available.

Dave, thanks for the prompt reply.

I would have done my best to talk you out of the Detroit option myself given the chance Mark. Been there done that, hate the bloody things.
Wagoo.

[wagoo]

Dave - this is fantastic news!!!

- Salisbury Version??? (preferably with a 1.5" 35-spline side gear option - there will be a HUGE market for these in the US!).

That would of course require larger spindles(stub axles) bored out hubs,larger wheel bearings, new drive flanges and halfshafts too. Do the Yanks have money again? I certainly don't:(
Wagoo.

[isuzurover]

That would of course require larger spindles(stub axles) bored out hubs,larger wheel bearings, new drive flanges and halfshafts too. Do the Yanks have money again? I certainly don't:(
Wagoo.

Both McNamara and Rovertracks sell all the bits needed to convert to 35-spline. You can also go to 1.3" 30-spline (15% stronger than 1.24" rover) without any machining (IME some stub axles need boring, but thanks to Land Rover's wonderful tolerances some don't). Both of these splines were standard D60 sizes.

[Chilly]

Site shows them to be out of stock!

[Slunnie]

Hi,

the main difference between this and the older RD56 type ARB is the air feed,

the ARB can leak due to relying on a rotational air seal, ours does not, the piston is not spinning in the cylinder, it moves across when air is applied and the static piston pushes the rotation thrust ring which is fixed to the cage,

But to be fair, how does this compare to the current ARB locker which was an update to the old one? I was under the impression (perhaps incorrectly) that amongst other changes, the new ARB locker had a different activation system.

[ashtrans]

But to be fair, how does this compare to the current ARB locker which was an update to the old one? I was under the impression (perhaps incorrectly) that amongst other changes, the new ARB locker had a different activation system.

Hi Slunnie,

I compared our locker to the older RD56 as it's much more similar to this design than the later RD128, yes the RD128 does have a totally different locking mechanism, better in one way in that it has done away with the fragile plastic cage used in the RD56 but worse in 2 ways, the main problem is the reduced engagement of the newer locking collar, the RD56 had 6mm, the RD128 has 2.5mm, this can allow it to kick out when locked with a big bang, another disadvantage is the air feed pipe has to run over the crown wheel which is fiddly and can cause it to catch on the ring gear if not fitted correctly, both designs suffer from the main housing failing and of course air leaks,

[wagoo]

Hi Slunnie,

I compared our locker to the older RD56 as it's much more similar to this design than the later RD128, yes the RD128 does have a totally different locking mechanism, better in one way in that it has done away with the fragile plastic cage used in the RD56 but worse in 2 ways, the main problem is the reduced engagement of the newer locking collar, the RD56 had 6mm, the RD128 has 2.5mm, this can allow it to kick out when locked with a big bang, another disadvantage is the air feed pipe has to run over the crown wheel which is fiddly and can cause it to catch on the ring gear if not fitted correctly, both designs suffer from the main housing failing and of course air leaks,

Dave, the main housing failing ? Do you mean the crownwheel bolt flange breaking off the carrier? That has always been a concern i've had with both ARB and JacMac carriers. I use liberal quantities of locktite on both the interface and the crownwheel spigot diameter in the hope that it will releive some of the drive loads from the flange.
Wagoo.

[LowRanger]

Dave, the main housing failing ? Do you mean the crownwheel bolt flange breaking off the carrier? That has always been a concern i've had with both ARB and JacMac carriers. I use liberal quantities of locktite on both the interface and the crownwheel spigot diameter in the hope that it will releive some of the drive loads from the flange.
Wagoo.

Bill
Have you heard of any JacMacs failing in this area?I was unable to find any reports of any failures,which was a major contributing reason for me going for the JacMac in the first place.

Dave
When I saw your new locker,I thought it looked similar in operation to the JacMac and liked how it also engages the locking collar a lot more than some of the others!Which they will swear is perfectly adequate.But I like a bit of over engineering,rather than under engineering,but maybe I am just a bit anal in the engineering of things.

Wayne

[Slunnie]

Hi Slunnie,

I compared our locker to the older RD56 as it's much more similar to this design than the later RD128, yes the RD128 does have a totally different locking mechanism, better in one way in that it has done away with the fragile plastic cage used in the RD56 but worse in 2 ways, the main problem is the reduced engagement of the newer locking collar, the RD56 had 6mm, the RD128 has 2.5mm, this can allow it to kick out when locked with a big bang, another disadvantage is the air feed pipe has to run over the crown wheel which is fiddly and can cause it to catch on the ring gear if not fitted correctly, both designs suffer from the main housing failing and of course air leaks,
Thanks for this Ashtrans, the 2.5mm dog certainly sounds like a backwards step. It looks like you've done a development on the JacMac locker which I always considered to be the benchmark.... shame he is so difficult to deal with. Why is your hemisphere stonger than ARB's? Well done and congratulations on the new air locker!

[VladTepes]

So is anyone selling these in Australia, and for how much ?

[wagoo]

Bill
Have you heard of any JacMacs failing in this area?I was unable to find any reports of any failures,which was a major contributing reason for me going for the JacMac in the first place.

Dave
When I saw your new locker,I thought it looked similar in operation to the JacMac and liked how it also engages the locking collar a lot more than some of the others!Which they will swear is perfectly adequate.But I like a bit of over engineering,rather than under engineering,but maybe I am just a bit anal in the engineering of things.

Wayne
Wayne. I have heard about 2 LandCruiser versions that have broken in that area.I got the loctite idea when I read about Renault using it instead of bolts to fasten the crownwheel to the carrier on one of their models.
My JacMacs have now been in for over 8 years of mainly high torque very low gear work and haven't given any problems, touch wood.
Wagoo.

[LowRanger]

Wayne. I have heard about 2 LandCruiser versions that have broken in that area.I got the loctite idea when I read about Renault using it instead of bolts to fasten the crownwheel to the carrier on one of their models.
My JacMacs have now been in for over 8 years of mainly high torque very low gear work and haven't given any problems, touch wood.
Wagoo.


Bill
Well I hope that mine lasts a while with all the power that my 200Tdi develops:D,But now I am tossing up between reduction gears or an Ashcroft Underdrive to go with my 4.11's and 35's,I know it isn't anywhere near the same reduction that you have.But I know my luck,and I don't like to push it too far:eek:

Wayne

[ashtrans]

Why is your hemisphere stonger than ARB's?

the ARB is quite thin walled and cast iron or similar material, ours is thicker and made from billet UK spec EN24T,

Dave

[ashtrans]

So is anyone selling these in Australia, and for how much ?

no one is stocking them as yet, we have found in the past that the traders we have delt with want huge discounts then sell at double or even triple our retail price, resulting in low sales, we are just selling direct from the UK to the australian market, carriage isn't that bad,

Dave

[101RRS]

no one is stocking them as yet, we have found in the past that the traders we have delt with want huge discounts then sell at double or even triple our retail price, resulting in low sales, we are just selling direct from the UK to the australian market, carriage isn't that bad,

Dave

And Australian retailers wonder why we are not supporting them and buying from overseas.

[biggin]

...................................... carriage isn't that bad,

Dave

Hi Dave,
How bad is "not bad"?:angel:

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Hi Dave,
How bad is "not bad"?:angel:

My Ashcroft Locker was ordered Monday (or Tuesday night) from Sydney and was delivered to my door the following Friday pm. £101.00 delivery.

For what its worth, the locker's bloody good too!!

Thanks Dave.

Jon

[wagoo]

And Australian retailers wonder why we are not supporting them and buying from overseas.

Well it was rogues and scoundrels that built this fine country in the first place. It's in the DNA. Why would you expect things to improve after only 230 odd years.:wasntme:

[ashtrans]

My Ashcroft Locker was ordered Monday (or Tuesday night) from Sydney and was delivered to my door the following Friday pm. £101.00 delivery.

For what its worth, the locker's bloody good too!!

Thanks Dave.

Jon

OK, thanks,

thats more than I thought, I thought it was nearer £ 70-80, we just charge it out at what TNT charge us, it's actually about 3KG heavier than other diff centres due to it's construction,

glad you like it,

Dave

[wagoo]

Dave, the main housing failing ? Do you mean the crownwheel bolt flange breaking off the carrier? That has always been a concern i've had with both ARB and JacMac carriers. I use liberal quantities of locktite on both the interface and the crownwheel spigot diameter in the hope that it will releive some of the drive loads from the flange.
Wagoo.

I just checked the lr4x4.com forums and as I suspected, failure of ARB Airleakers in the area suggested above is quite common.
Wagoo.

[uninformed]

thanks for all th info Dave,

hows the solution comming for the ford 9 inch arb?? that should be a big hit for you over in the USA.

Where is the force9 at?

any work on the soloution for the p38 diff interanl mod and replacement you were eluding to in another thread?

cheers,
Serg

[isuzurover]

And will there be a salisbury version??? (preferably including a 35 spline option...)

[VladTepes]

no one is stocking them as yet, we have found in the past that the traders we have delt with want huge discounts then sell at double or even triple our retail price, resulting in low sales, we are just selling direct from the UK to the australian market, carriage isn't that bad,

Dave

OK thanks , so what is the cost of one in AUD ?

Are they actuated at the same pressures etc as the ARB lockers? I ask because I already have a rear air locker and therefore the ARB compressor in my Defender. Is it just a plug and play proposition same as if I was to fit an air locker to the front diff, or would I need other mods ?;

[isuzurover]

OK thanks , so what is the cost of one in AUD ?

Are they actuated at the same pressures etc as the ARB lockers? I ask because I already have a rear air locker and therefore the ARB compressor in my Defender. Is it just a plug and play proposition same as if I was to fit an air locker to the front diff, or would I need other mods ?;

Vlad - it is simple to calculate the (approximate) price using the prices on Ashcroft's website, the postage price above, and a currency converter like xe. The exact conversion will change on a daily basis by a few $$$.

Fitting would be no different to an airlocker.

[c.h.i.e.f]

Would definitely consider a sals 35spline one :) isuzurover have you converted yours to 35 spline? Only one I have seen is cal415's which I must say is a beautiful piece of artwork !

[Yorkshire_Jon]

OK, thanks,

thats more than I thought, I thought it was nearer £ 70-80, we just charge it out at what TNT charge us, it's actually about 3KG heavier than other diff centres due to it's construction,

glad you like it,

Dave

Does that mean I can have a £20-30 credit Dave?!?!?!?:D:D

[Yorkshire_Jon]

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Are they actuated at the same pressures etc as the ARB lockers? I ask because I already have a rear air locker and therefore the ARB compressor in my Defender. Is it just a plug and play proposition same as if I was to fit an air locker to the front diff, or would I need other mods ?;

Yes, actuated by same pressures - small ARB compressor and ARB 70 - 100psi solenoid (from memory) is fine.

[Capstan]

Fitted one on the weekend to my 85 Rangie, put some 24 spline axles in at the same time. Very nice machining. Took it for a play and seems to work (well didn't get stuck)

Thanks Dave.

[Didge]

errgh? does the lack of response mean there is no sals version available? Or did I miss it?
cheers Gerald

[isuzurover]

errgh? does the lack of response mean there is no sals version available? Or did I miss it?
cheers Gerald

There is no sals version. Dave/Ian have not mentioned if they plan to make one or not.

[ashtrans]

Fitted one on the weekend to my 85 Rangie, put some 24 spline axles in at the same time. Very nice machining. Took it for a play and seems to work (well didn't get stuck)

Thanks Dave.

Hi,

glad you are pleased with it,

Dave

[ashtrans]

errgh? does the lack of response mean there is no sals version available? Or did I miss it?
cheers Gerald

Hi,

sorry, No salisbury version,

not a big demand for them, we are also very busy on other development projects such as :

P38 / 110 rear air locker, development done
late 110 rear axle replacement diff, with HD shafts, air locker, hypoid, design done, about to order prototypes,
fitting the 6 speed puma MT82 into the Defender TD5, just started

Dave

[rick130]

Hi,

[snip]

fitting the 6 speed puma MT82 into the Defender TD5, just started

Dave

Is the Getrag any stronger than the R380 Suffix L Dave ?

Or are you doing it as it has better ratios ?

[stig0000]

iv got acsess to a 6speed box, iv thort hard about swaping it into the fender td5??? all i can see is a new bellhousing and clutch set up,

the extention housing to the transfer box is bolt on so that part shouldent be a problem??

send us a PM if you need a aus tester, im keen to give it ago;);)

[wagoo]

iv got acsess to a 6speed box, iv thort hard about swaping it into the fender td5??? all i can see is a new bellhousing and clutch set up,

the extention housing to the transfer box is bolt on so that part shouldent be a problem??

send us a PM if you need a aus tester, im keen to give it ago;);)

Isn't the 6 speed bellhousing and gearbox casing cast together as a single unit?
Wagoo.

[uninformed]

Im sure Dave had responded to some Q's here, but now its gone :confused:

bloody forum is playing up atm....been a bugger to get on etc

[rick130]

Inc lost everything from the weekend, he had to upload a backup copy that was a few days old ;)

[uninformed]

not good enough!!!! I like to think Im still quite young and with that I expect everything instantly......sent from twitter, which was sent via facebook, which inturn was sent from my iphone, which was sent from china

[rick130]

and you just hit 1000 posts !

I love Andrew/Lovemyrangie's sig

"sent from my teepee with smoke signals" :D

[justinc]

Is the Getrag any stronger than the R380 Suffix L Dave ?

Or are you doing it as it has better ratios ?

Rick, what I find interesting is that the Puma 110 etc have a 6spd box AND a 1.222:1 transfer high range!

Would be easy to underdrive it a little using the 1.4:1 high range then run 35's and with its super low first ratio and antistall....:twisted: Good on and off road.


JC

[rick130]

Rick, what I find interesting is that the Puma 110 etc have a 6spd box AND a 1.222:1 transfer high range!

Would be easy to underdrive it a little using the 1.4:1 high range then run 35's and with its super low first ratio and antistall....:twisted: Good on and off road.


JC

Hmm.....options.....




My thoughts were is it strong enough to throw behind an Isuzu ?

I don't really like most of the ratio spreads on the Isuzu boxes I've seen, and the six speed alloy case ones will need to be adapted anyway, although that'd be easier than the getrag.

OK, I'm a sucker for a slick shifting gearbox.

I think at one stage Quaiffe did a 'dog box version of the R380 ?

Once you've driven a good dog box you hate synchros forever (except when you get tired :D )

[wagoo]

Once you've driven a good dog box you hate synchros forever (except when you get tired :D )

I drove a dog box when I did some volunteer work for Animal Aid a while back.
There was nothing good about it what with the noise and the smell:)
Wagoo.

[rick130]

I drove a dog box when I did some volunteer work for Animal Aid a while back.
There was nothing good about it what with the noise and the smell:)
Wagoo.

:lol2:

[Tank]

I think the biggest problem with buying overseas is the frieght costs, I just bought a set of timing tools from the USA, size 250mm x 250mm x 100mm, weight 1 kilo, cost ranged from USD $91 to $134, tools actual cost USD$ 205, delivery in a week.
Also a Magnetti Marelli Alternator (300TDi) cost AUD$158, great, freight AUD$150 from Paddocks in UK.
So a Freight bill around 100 quid for a diff seems very cheap, but still knocks the gloss off Ashcrofts price, too bad you couldn't set up a retailer out here that could import Ashcroft diffs $ bits and knock the ridiculous frieght costs on the head, Regards Frank.

[uninformed]

I think at one stage Quaiffe did a 'dog box version of the R380 ?

Once you've driven a good dog box you hate synchros forever (except when you get tired :D )

I think at one stage they also offered a 6 speed conversion for it....not 100% though. This puma box is sounding good though. but Im guessing to much $$$ for me :(

[wagoo]

Hi,

sorry, No salisbury version,not a big demand for them,

Dave

Maybe not Dave.But there is, or at least was before the GFC, a sizeable US market for the dimensionally identical Dana 60 diffs.Your skills have become well known and respected on Pirate over there, due in main to your fix for the STAK 3 spd t/case issues and ARB 9'' Ford airlocker improvements.IMO an alternative to the D60 ARB Airleaker, offered by Ashcrofts would be well received, and you could cover the smaller demand for a Salisbury locker for little to no extra tooling costs.
Freight would be a bugger for a Sals locker though. They are heavy beasts.
Wagoo.

[Psimpson7]

So a Freight bill around 100 quid for a diff seems very cheap, but still knocks the gloss off Ashcrofts price, too bad you couldn't set up a retailer out here that could import Ashcroft diffs $ bits and knock the ridiculous frieght costs on the head, Regards Frank.

I think you must have missed the fact that if they do that, the parts will cost more. Dave has already commented on this. (post 30 or 31 I think)

Personally I would much prefer to go direct.

[isuzurover]

Maybe not Dave.But their is, or at least was before the GFC, a sizeable US market for the dimensionally identical Dana 60 diffs.Your skills have become well known and respected on Pirate over there, due in main to your fix for the STAK 3 spd t/case issues and ARB 9'' Ford airlocker improvements.IMO an alternative to the D60 ARB Airleaker offered by Ashcrofts would be well received, and you could cover the smaller demand for a Salisbury locker for little to no extra tooling costs.
Freight would be a bugger for a Sals locker though. They are heavy beasts.
Wagoo.

I agree!

[Tank]

I think you must have missed the fact that if they do that, the parts will cost more. Dave has already commented on this. (post 30 or 31 I think)

Personally I would much prefer to go direct.
No P.......7 I didn't miss Daves post, when freight costs add 1/2 to 1/3 of the purchase price to the total cost it isn't viable to buy from overseas ( on some parts), eg. the MM alternator was cheaper to buy in Australia at $303 local (del. to door) to $308 from Paddocks UK.
My point being that if Ashcrofts could appoint a distributor to sell their fantastic products here, then larger volume of sales and bulk transport costs would mean cheaper in OZ parts. But then again there may not be a big enough market in Australia for this to be viable, Regards Frank.

[isuzurover]

No P.......7 I didn't miss Daves post, when freight costs add 1/2 to 1/3 of the purchase price to the total cost it isn't viable to buy from overseas ( on some parts), eg. the MM alternator was cheaper to buy in Australia at $303 local (del. to door) to $308 from Paddocks UK.
My point being that if Ashcrofts could appoint a distributor to sell their fantastic products here, then larger volume of sales and bulk transport costs would mean cheaper in OZ parts. But then again there may not be a big enough market in Australia for this to be viable, Regards Frank.

Price your mm/denso 300Tdi alternator again. I did yesterday. $495+P from JC, $550 from my regular auto sparky, $700 from Rovacraft, GBP112.50+P from Paddocks (EDIT works out at AU$275 at my door sent 2-day TNT express - most expensive). I asked Rovacraft - didn't you sell them for $300 a while back? Was told "we don't have any of those anymore".

Dave's lockers (landed at your door) are cheaper than any manual locker for a rover you can buy in OZ. I am sure if Dave sold through a dealer in OZ, they would want to pay 50% of Dave's retail, buy them one or two at a time, and sell them for $50 less than the RRP of an ARB locker.

[Tank]

Price your mm/denso 300Tdi alternator again. I did yesterday. $495+P from JC, $550 from my regular auto sparky, $700 from Rovacraft, GBP112.50+P from Paddocks (EDIT works out at AU$275 at my door sent 2-day TNT express - most expensive). I asked Rovacraft - didn't you sell them for $300 a while back? Was told "we don't have any of those anymore".

Dave's lockers (landed at your door) are cheaper than any manual locker for a rover you can buy in OZ. I am sure if Dave sold through a dealer in OZ, they would want to pay 50% of Dave's retail, buy them one or two at a time, and sell them for $50 less than the RRP of an ARB locker.
So Rovacraft have more than doubled their price and Paddocks have dropped over GBP46 from their price of GBP158, it's amazing what a floating AUD does to prices, here and overseas, Regards Frank.

[PAT303]

I bought a Ford Transit alternator for my Tdi for $280 18months back from an auto sparky at Kalgoorlie. Pat

[isuzurover]

I bought a Ford Transit alternator for my Tdi for $280 18months back from an auto sparky at Kalgoorlie. Pat

Part number and amperage? (However yours is a defender isn't it? - I have heard they are different to a disco).

[rick130]

Part number and amperage? (However yours is a defender isn't it? - I have heard they are different to a disco).

Still bolt up the same, it's just that LR fitted a 65amp alt to the Defender and a 100amp one to the Disco.

[uninformed]

Still bolt up the same, it's just that LR fitted a 65amp alt to the Defender and a 100amp one to the Disco.

makes sense as the Def can only do about 95km/h loaded so the headlights dont have to shine that far in front

now back to the lockers..........

Dave, have you crunched the numbers on doing a Sals version with the ability for it to suit the D60 USA market?

[rick130]

Link to 300Tdi alt. part #'s and critical dimensions.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/106447-bosch-alternator-tdi-300-a.html#post1265893

Now back to your usual programming :D

[wagoo]

[QUOTE=uninformed;1526563 Dave, have you crunched the numbers on doing a Sals version with the ability for it to suit the D60 USA market?[/QUOTE]

Don't be confused by the electrical content that has crept into this thread Dave. Most of us would probably still prefer pneumatics.;)
Wagoo

[wrinklearthur]

Don't be confused by the electrical content that has crept into this thread Dave. Most of us would probably still prefer pneumatics.;)
Wagoo
My computer runs on electricity, does yours run on puff power???

Cheers Arthur

[wagoo]

My computer runs on electricity, does yours run on puff power???

Cheers Arthur

I was referring to difflocks Arthur, but my computer is that old and slow to get going that I suspect it is probably steam powered, which is much more closely related to pneumatics than electrics.;)
Wagoo.

[ashtrans]

Hi,

I will cost up 100 Salisbury lockers, I would guess they would come out about £ 100-150 more then the rover ones, but lets see, I think we could sell 2 a week, not loads but it shouldn't be a big problem making them,

Les Richmond will be stocking our lockers very soon but the reduced carriage (not as reduced as you would think) when ordered in bulk is offset by the GST tax thats added for companys so I would guess they will still come out about the same if bought direct from us with the carriage, the only advantage being you will have local backup for install or any warranty problems (of which we have had none so far, fingers crossed)

todays problem with the 6 speed MT82 into the TD5 defender is the TD5 has 13mm of clutch release bearing movement and the puma hydraulic CRB which we want to use only has 8mm stroke, need to find a very short hydraulic CRB with 13mm stroke,

Dave

[Rimmer]

I'll have one.

99 to go!

[isuzutoo-eh]

Hi,

I will cost up 100 Salisbury lockers, I would guess they would come out about £ 100-150 more then the rover ones, but lets see, I think we could sell 2 a week, not loads but it shouldn't be a big problem making them,


Dave

I will buy one as well :cool: Hope my tax return gets here quickly!

[uninformed]

Excellent stuff Dave, I hope it will be compatable with the D60 30/35 spline guys in the USA. Regarding the 6 speed, how does it compare in length to the R380?

[ashtrans]

Excellent stuff Dave, I hope it will be compatable with the D60 30/35 spline guys in the USA. Regarding the 6 speed, how does it compare in length to the R380?

we are trying to get it the same as the TD5 R 380, to make the install less hassle,

Dave

[uninformed]

we are trying to get it the same as the TD5 R 380, to make the install less hassle,

Dave

how does that compare to a 300tdi? Are you only shooting for the Td5 market?

[wagoo]

Excellent stuff Dave, I hope it will be compatable with the D60 30/35 spline guys in the USA.

Just brooch out the side gears, drill out the ring gear bolt holes, job's done.
offset on 3.54:1 Sals carrier is same as D60 at least up to 4.1:1 ratio.
4.7:1 offset should cater for the lower D60 ratios.
Wagoo.

[isuzurover]

Hi,

I will cost up 100 Salisbury lockers, I would guess they would come out about £ 100-150 more then the rover ones, but lets see, I think we could sell 2 a week, not loads but it shouldn't be a big problem making them,

...

Dave

Great news Dave!

If you make them to suit a 4.7:1 ring gear with 35 spline Dana 60 side gears then I will buy 2!

[ashtrans]

how does that compare to a 300tdi? Are you only shooting for the Td5 market?

ultimatly we would like to have a kit for the TD5, V8 and TDi but as the length is a major issue we thought we would start with the longest setup ie the TD5, even in the TD5 it's very tight to get it the same as the 380, for the V8 and TDi it looks like we will need to shorten the rear end, if we do this it will make the TD5 much easier as we may be able to use the stock TD5 clutch bearing and slave,

will do more measuring tomorrow,

[uninformed]

keep the updates coming Dave,

does the getrag 6 speed have an oil pump like the R380 so a cooler can be added?

what are your thoughts of the internal designs of gears, shafts bearings etc?

Regarding your quaife 5 speed gear set of straight cut close ratio gears for R380, it states on your website they are made from 300M...is this 4340 300M or 300 Marageing?

cheers,
Serg

[jakeslouw]

There are a huge amount of Salisbury-axle Defenders floating around Southern Africa as well if Ashcroft needs more convincing about a market............

[ashtrans]

keep the updates coming Dave,

does the getrag 6 speed have an oil pump like the R380 so a cooler can be added?

what are your thoughts of the internal designs of gears, shafts bearings etc?

Regarding your quaife 5 speed gear set of straight cut close ratio gears for R380, it states on your website they are made from 300M...is this 4340 300M or 300 Marageing?

cheers,
Serg

Hi Serg,

no oil pump, no shims, no filter in the MT82,

internals look strong and simple, 82mm centres, no taper roller bearings, just large cylindrical roller bearings, gears are big and have fine teeth and look ground like the LT230 Q gears, selector forks are steel fabricated with plastic feet, these feet look like a weak point, would like to fit bronze feet,

the quaife kit is 300M not Maraging,

the 6 speed into the TD5 is coming on,

had to remove the rear housing and fit and make a shorter one :

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/09/941.jpg

make a short output shaft :

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/09/942.jpg

extend the pinion, prototype is just welded :

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/09/943.jpg

cut and shut the TD5 bellhousing and add a plate with the puma bolt pattern :

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/09/944.jpg

just sorting the shifter today which is about 160mm out, should be ready to put in a car next week hopefully,

Dave

[rick130]

Dave, are the Quaife internals dog or synchro engagement ?

[ashtrans]

Dave, are the Quaife internals dog or synchro engagement ?

we decided to stick with the syncros, the dogs are only OK on a sequential, not easy to drive on a H pattern

Dave

[bitdist]

Hi,

I will cost up 100 Salisbury lockers, I would guess they would come out about £ 100-150 more then the rover ones, but lets see, I think we could sell 2 a week, not loads but it shouldn't be a big problem making them,

Les Richmond will be stocking our lockers very soon but the reduced carriage (not as reduced as you would think) when ordered in bulk is offset by the GST tax thats added for companys so I would guess they will still come out about the same if bought direct from us with the carriage, the only advantage being you will have local backup for install or any warranty problems (of which we have had none so far, fingers crossed)

todays problem with the 6 speed MT82 into the TD5 defender is the TD5 has 13mm of clutch release bearing movement and the puma hydraulic CRB which we want to use only has 8mm stroke, need to find a very short hydraulic CRB with 13mm stroke,

Dave !

I will get one as well!

[popemobile]

There are a huge amount of Salisbury-axle Defenders floating around Southern Africa as well if Ashcroft needs more convincing about a market............


And after a lot of work I have TWO in mine :) does that help.

Put me down for at least one in the rear.....hmmm that sounds mildly inapropriate ;):D

[flagg]

And after a lot of work I have TWO in mine :) does that help.

Put me down for at least one in the rear.....hmmm that sounds mildly inapropriate ;):D

sounds right considering your forum name ;)

:rofl:

[wagoo]

There is obviously something I'm not seeing here.:confused:
The 6 speed gearbox conversion does sound like a lot of work. And if the bellhousing is cast integral with the gearcase it would be difficult to offer a conversion kit. Cost wise, how would it compare with a Rocky Mountain overdrive on a regular R380/LT230 combination? or for those requiring lower gearing,compare with lower t/case gearing, or even an Ashcroft crawler box?
Wagoo.

[rick130]

we decided to stick with the syncros, the dogs are only OK on a sequential, not easy to drive on a H pattern

Dave

Shame, I never had a problem with an H pattern dog box, could shift as fast as you could move the lever. (Hewland)

Those straight cut teeth must howl :D

[rick130]

H
[snip]
selector forks are steel fabricated with plastic feet, these feet look like a weak point, would like to fit bronze feet,

[snip]

Dave

Just bumping this.

This is the part that is giving trouble in the Mustangs, I'll dig up some links, I think there's aftermarket kits to address the shift mechanism failings already.

[wagoo]

As per my previous post#93. If there are so many modifications involved and the conversion is unable to be supplied in kit form due to integrally cast bell housing, I don't understand the interest.
Wagoo.

[85 county]

stuf the gear box,

what about a sals locker

[bitdist]

stuf the gear box,

what about a sals locker

I think they would sell a heap of the sals compared to a gearbox!
Any timeline yet??
I would much rather an ashcroft rear locker than something else

[85 county]

I think they would sell a heap of the sals compared to a gearbox!
Any timeline yet??
I would much rather an ashcroft rear locker than something else

agreed, what is there minim order?

[uninformed]

hi Dave and Ian,

just wondering if you have any updates on the Sals Ashcroft locker and the p38/110 rear diff mods/upgrades?

cheers,
Serg

[wagoo]

hi Dave and Ian,

just wondering if you have any updates on the Sals Ashcroft locker and the p38/110 rear diff mods/upgrades?

cheers,
Serg
Don't know how large a company Ashcroft are,but they currently have so many projects on the go that the sals locker is probably a long way off still.

The Sals doesn't appear to be a popular fitment among serious offroaders in the UK their bread and butter market.(read low priority development)
Bill.

[uninformed]

yeah I figured that to Bill, But if they could get sales going into the USA via the D60....well maybe that little company would become a little bigger ;)

[isuzurover]

Don't know how large a company Ashcroft are,but they currently have so many projects on the go that the sals locker is probably a long way off still.

The Sals doesn't appear to be a popular fitment among serious offroaders in the UK their bread and butter market.(read low priority development)
Bill.

AFAIK they are selling plenty of axles and CVs to the USA. In the US there are very few still running rover stuff.

As I have posted on here before, if Ashcroft ever offer a 35-spline Salisbury locker [for a reasonable price] then I will buy the first 2.

[wagoo]

AFAIK they are selling plenty of axles and CVs to the USA. In the US there are very few still running rover stuff.

As I have posted on here before, if Ashcroft ever offer a 35-spline Salisbury locker [for a reasonable price] then I will buy the first 2.

If they don't come to the party Ben you could always make your own.I'll give you the design to my Slug Locker for a carton of home made ginger beer.;)
Trouble is, that I have to remember how I did it, as my original protype was knocked off along with tons of other stuff years ago.:mad:
Bill.

[isuzurover]

If they don't come to the party Ben you could always make your own.I'll give you the design to my Slug Locker for a carton of home made ginger beer.;)
Trouble is, that I have to remember how I did it, as my original protype was knocked off along with tons of other stuff years ago.:mad:
Bill.

Better yet Bill, how about you PM me a quote to make a couple up for me??? :D

[wagoo]

Better yet Bill, how about you PM me a quote to make a couple up for me??? :D
Unfortunately Ben, all my former friends/ contacts re splining , brooching and machining have retired or died. And on a personal level, living here in the sticks off the grid, I barely have enough electrical power to run a 4'' angle grinder, let alone the equipment I used to have in my more productive years.
Bill.

[isuzutoo-eh]

I don't make very good ginger beer but have a friend with a moderate tool shop...

[uninformed]

Ben, Barry might be up for it...and would have no problems doing the axles of coarse....

[isuzurover]

Ben, Barry might be up for it...and would have no problems doing the axles of coarse....

I spoke to Mal about larger diameter axles. He said it should be possible to manage a 1.3" 30spl, but there was no way he could manage a 1.5" 35spl with the MD locker design.

[wagoo]

I don't make very good ginger beer but have a friend with a moderate tool shop...

I'll see if I can borrow a Salisbury carrier sometime to measure and make a drawing of the conversion. But maybe a reasonably detailed description will suffice and save me the trouble? To make sense of the following description it would be easier to have a dismantled Salisbury carrier to refer to.

The most intricate part to make was the pneumatic hollow piston cylinder that fitted inside the axle tube, concentric with the half shaft.

For 24 spline axles a McNamara splined cross shaft was used.For 101 pattern or 35 spline axles the existing cross shaft was annealed, brooched and rehardened.
One halfshaft (any side)was shortened half an inch, to allow for a short splined stub shaft that rides inside the splined cross shaft to be pushed into the side gear, thereby locking the gear to the carrier. The other end of the splined stub shaft is drilled and tapped, so that a large hardened washer is fastened to it with a countersunk unbrako bolt.This washer pushes against 2 coil return springs(series LR gearbox detent springs) that sit inside pockets drilled into the cross shaft junction.These springs unlock the diff once air pressure is released.
The opposite sidegear has 3 holes drilled through it, concentic to the axle splines, into which 3 hardened pushrods(Ramset nails) are fitted.The pushrods bear against the washer on the splined stubshaft. A thin walled flanged sleeve that is a sliding fit inside the carrier bearing journal bears against the pushrods.When fitted up,the end of another thin walled sleeve, a 6mm length of which rests inside the end of the carrier bearing journal, transmits the thrust from the concentric pneumatic piston.
The cavity behind the side gear spigot in the carrier needs to be cleaned up and clearanced to make space for the pushrod sleeve to do its job, and the return spring side of the crosshaft junction needs to be narrowed, and the inner side of the sidegear faced back enough so that the thrust washer can move the half inch required to fully engage the difflock.
The cross sectional area of all the splines x half inch long exceeds the cross sectional area of the shaft, so stripping the splines is unlikely and never happened on the handfull of 101s that were converted way back then.
The pneumatic cylinder was a neat push fit inside the axle tube and was simply held in position by the brass airline fitting through a hole drilled into the axle tube concentric with one of the diff spreader tool locating holes.
Bill.

[uninformed]

I spoke to Mal about larger diameter axles. He said it should be possible to manage a 1.3" 30spl, but there was no way he could manage a 1.5" 35spl with the MD locker design.

i didnt mean for a MD type locker, but for some/the custom work for Bills design.....At least Barry is familiar with rover stuff and has the machine and skill set to do it.

[SSmith]

i have a 200tdi defender 110 sitting in the back yard (tomakazi's) awaiting a re-birth. how long do you need the salisbury for?

[wagoo]

i have a 200tdi defender 110 sitting in the back yard (tomakazi's) awaiting a re-birth. how long do you need the salisbury for?
Thanks. Hopefully if they are interested and get Barry (MR Engineering) to have a look at my post, he might be able to work it out without any further input from myself. If not then I would need a Salsbury carrier for a couple of days.
Bill.

[fender95vnt]

Bill I can leave my county at your place for as long as you would need. At present it is the just sitting around and being driven only to keep things turning.

[wagoo]

Bill I can leave my county at your place for as long as you would need. At present it is the just sitting around and being driven only to keep things turning.
Thanks, I might take you up on that, but I know someone who started making up a difflock of the above design, and then got lazy and bought an ARB unit. If he has still got it I might be able to photograph the bits that make up the conversion and/or make a dimensional drawing .
Unfortunately,before I can do much in that regard I've got a bit of portal refurbishing, some panel bashing and an engine change to do.
It never ends!:o
Bill.

[fender95vnt]

sounds like we wont be able to have a play for a while if yours is out of action :(

[lr90freak]

Rovacraft now have ashcroft air lockers in stock, and at at a resonable price.

Pm for details.

[wagoo]

sounds like we wont be able to have a play for a while if yours is out of action :(
You're welcome to come and play anytime.
Fixed the portal yesterday. Beat the left mudguard back into some sort of shape. While the guard was off i thought I'd take advantage of the accesibility to relocate the alternator and air compressor to make space for a power steering pump, Should be mobile again in a couple of days.Might leave the engine change until after we do Ellis Track near Gladysdale in 2 weeks time. have to tidy up the ol girls appearance a bit before then though.;)
Bill.

[newhue]

Hi

has anyone had experience with the Ashcroft HD Ring and Pinion. They make an 8 tooth pinion as an option to the standard 13.
Ashcroft suggest if set up correctly the extra noise the fewer gears make is minimal.
I'm having trouble trying to draw a line for my p38 diff, it's a in puma, and I have the locka, axles, and flanges waiting to be installed. I want to make it bomb proof but only the once as I have to pay to have the job done.
Some posts, not many, have me pondering on recent failures of OE ring and pinion gears.
My OE diff appears to be set up correctly and has 40K on it now, but I just don't know to go with the standard ring and pinion with the locka, or up grade to an Ashcroft 13 or 8 tooth variant.

those with mechanical knowledge, please come forward

thanks

[uninformed]

Hi

has anyone had experience with the Ashcroft HD Ring and Pinion. They make an 8 tooth pinion as an option to the standard 13.
Ashcroft suggest if set up correctly the extra noise the fewer gears make is minimal.
I'm having trouble trying to draw a line for my p38 diff, it's a in puma, and I have the locka, axles, and flanges waiting to be installed. I want to make it bomb proof but only the once as I have to pay to have the job done.
Some posts, not many, have me pondering on recent failures of OE ring and pinion gears.
My OE diff appears to be set up correctly and has 40K on it now, but I just don't know to go with the standard ring and pinion with the locka, or up grade to an Ashcroft 13 or 8 tooth variant.

those with mechanical knowledge, please come forward

thanks

Newhue, I dont think the Ashcroft HD R+P are for the P38 type diff. I believe they are only for the Rover type diff. On their website, all they offer for a P38 type diff is a stock 3.54 and a 4.11 aftermarket. I could not see whether the 4.11 was stronger or different tooth count?

There is a thread in the 90,110,130 section about puma rear diffs. Ashcroft have chimed in there.

What tyres do you run? How hard do you drive? A new carrier (ie Ashcroft locker) new axles and drive flanges may be all you need. Yes the pinion and Ring gear are the weak point, but if set up properly may be ok for your needs...

Other than that, as Ashcroft havent yet actually made their P38 diff HD upgrade, swapping in a Sals may be an option.

[grover7488]

Hi Newhue

what Uniformed said is correct. I have been speaking recently with Dave Ashcroft about that exact matter. They may make some HD CWP in the future but dont hold your breath. Now i have to decide whether to go with the ARB or Ashcroft lockers :confused:
cheers

[Presto]

I'm running ARB lockers & Ashcroft 4.12 CW&P's (tooth count 33/8) front and rear in my D1 and had no issues so far. If I had to do it again, I'd probably go with Ashcroft Lockers, which have been released since my build, just on the back of their excellent reputation.

Edit: Actually just realised I may be running the old style CW&P's - when were the new 8 tooth released?
Mine are definitely 4.12, not 4.11, so does that mean they are the new HD version?

[uninformed]

I'm running ARB lockers & Ashcroft 4.12 CW&P's (tooth count 33/8) front and rear in my D1 and had no issues so far. If I had to do it again, I'd probably go with Ashcroft Lockers, which have been released since my build, just on the back of their excellent reputation.

Edit: Actually just realised I may be running the old style CW&P's - when were the new 8 tooth released?
Mine are definitely 4.12, not 4.11, so does that mean they are the new HD version?

The diffs in the front and rear of your D1 are Rover type. Not the same as the P38/late 110 rear. Depending on how old your R+P are, there has been some design changes, but Im pretty certain they would still be stronger than factory.

GBR or Great Basin Rovers also do some vert HD R+P for the Rover type diff.

The Ashcroft locker looks to be a better option than the ARB going off what has been talked about on here.

[newhue]

Newhue, I dont think the Ashcroft HD R+P are for the P38 type diff. I believe they are only for the Rover type diff. On their website, all they offer for a P38 type diff is a stock 3.54 and a 4.11 aftermarket. I could not see whether the 4.11 was stronger or different tooth count?

There is a thread in the 90,110,130 section about puma rear diffs. Ashcroft have chimed in there.

What tyres do you run? How hard do you drive? A new carrier (ie Ashcroft locker) new axles and drive flanges may be all you need. Yes the pinion and Ring gear are the weak point, but if set up properly may be ok for your needs...

Other than that, as Ashcroft havent yet actually made their P38 diff HD upgrade, swapping in a Sals may be an option.

thanks, for some reason I though a puma had a P38, but must be the the trusty old rover diff.

I will be running 33's and I don't drive it fast, but happy to plod up steep hills, or will give most things a go.
I'm guessing the HD R & P for rover diffs is more for competition, and I'd assume Ashcrofts standard rover and P38 R & P would be an upgrade from LR specifications, not just a replacement.

[uninformed]

thanks, for some reason I though a puma had a P38, but must be the the trusty old rover diff.

I will be running 33's and I don't drive it fast, but happy to plod up steep hills, or will give most things a go.
I'm guessing the HD R & P for rover diffs is more for competition, and I'd assume Ashcrofts standard rover and P38 R & P would be an upgrade from LR specifications, not just a replacement.

Im not 100% sure but I think it is a case of the 90's having Rover type diffs front and rear, Rover type front in the 110's and 130's but have the P38 type diff in the rear only. This diff started to appear in 1999 or so in the defender range. The term "Puma" is causing some missinformation. It is the name given to the engine project. The problem with these particular diffs is being compounded by poor set up from the factory, which has gotten worse in last couple of years.

If you are upgrading a rover diff, no reason you wouldnt go for a HD R+P even if you dont compete, especially if doing a ratio change. Myself, I have a Sals rear and rover front. As I didnt change ratios and installed a MD I just kept the OEM, but I mostly do road miles on 32's

The Ashcroft 3.54 P38 R+P set I believe is just a OEM replacement. Not sure about the details on the 4.11 for same diff from them, but it isnt to the spec of there other HD sets.

EDIT: Newhue, I see in your sig you have a 130Tdci. Im pretty sure these are the P38 type rear (only). If you have a locker, axles and flanges, My advice would be just get them fitted, run the hub bearings in oil and make sure the diff is set up properly (specialist) Unless you want a ratio change, your not going to get a better R+P set anywhere. Set up is the biggest problem (outside of design) with these diffs.Unfortunately you have no option for this diff to improve the R+P or other design problems. But my guess is with the new gear and set up properly, good oil and changes you will be fine

[Stumpy1]

wrong post

[Didge]

Nothing Stumpy1, you're just like a young bloke who's discovered sex; ya wanna try everything :)

[Stumpy1]

might be on to something there:p

[wagoo]

Nothing Stumpy1, you're just like a young bloke who's discovered sex; ya wanna try everything :)
You don't necessarily have to be all that young. I'm 62 and I'm still suffering from that affliction:)
Bill.

[Didge]

You don't necessarily have to be all that young. I'm 62 and I'm still suffering from that affliction:)
Bill.
hahaa - me too and I'm 53 :)
I remember before I got married I foolishly said I won't get married until I stop looking around! ???????? the married guys fell off their chairs with laughter.