Oil for Bulldog tractor/crawler.

[Sly]

A question for the vintage tractor / motor buffs amounst us.
Is there a old style mineral oil avalable off the shelf , that is suitable for use in a single cyl Bulldog.

[Bearman]

It's been a while, but I am pretty sure my dad used to use Shell Rotella in his Field Marshall.

[rick130]

Any idea what Lanz specified originally ?

I'm guessing it would have been a straight SAE grade engine oil ?

Basically as long as you meet the original viscosity specs you could use any modern oil.

eg my old Fiat 550 specified a 20W-40 in engine, gearbox, hydraulics and air cleaner so I just use a modern 15W-40 CI-4+ oil.
It works well.

[edit] the Bulldog is technically a two stroke, isn't it ?
If so, maybe a Detroit two stroke diesel oil is most suitable ?
I tried finding the specs on the Castrol Datacheck site but no luck.

[edit 2 @ 7:07 EDT) Thinking further (dangerous ATM, I'm on my second huge glass of shiraz) I'd reckon a DD specific oil would be ideal. They are a super low ash formulation to reduce piston and exhaust deposits and have a high detergency.
Something like Castrol Tection Monograde 30 (or 40 if that SAE weight is required ?)

[justinc]

IIRC it was a SAE30?

The 'bunker' oil used to run them on though....:eek: What an environmental nightmare:twisted:

JC

[rick130]

IIRC it was a SAE30?

The 'bunker' oil used to run them on though....:eek: What an environmental nightmare:twisted:

JC

They were basically designed to run anything that would burn, weren't they ?
Basically, if a farmer could pour it, they would burn it.

Might come back into vogue in the next ten or so years the way the world is currently heading :(

[wagoo]

IIRC it was a SAE30?

The 'bunker' oil used to run them on though....:eek: What an environmental nightmare:twisted:

JC
I don't think environmentalism or even humanism mattered too much to German authorities back in the earlier Lanz tractor heydays.
I used to work for a bloke that was a keen collector of old Lanz Bulldog tractors.
Apparently they were designed to run on any liquid that would burn, including mineral,vegetable oils,soap,animal fats and sadly, during Germanys darkest days during WW2, human fats too:(
Wagoo.

[JDNSW]

If my memory is correct, they have a drip feed lubrication system. While designed for straight mineral oil (there was nothing else in the 1920s), the requirements are not critical, and I would expect that any lubricating oil would be satisfactory, as long as it was liquid at operating and starting temperatures.

John

[Blknight.aus]

yep, the lanz will run on anything that has a pour point that sort of resembles a proper liquid. I bet but, probably wouldnt try, that it would run on 80/90 diff oil once it was started.

as for the lube oil I was once shown by an old bloke a drip tester, basically a 1/2inch wide tube with an X size hole in the bottom of it, any oil that poured out or dripped better than about 2 drips a second was good to go for lube oil.

[rick130]

From Wiki (pedia, not leaks :D)

Two-stroke engines

The cycle starts with the piston at the bottom of its stroke. As it rises, it draws air into the crankcase through the Inlet Port. At the same time fuel is sprayed into the vapouriser. The charge of air on top of the piston is compressed into the vapouriser where it is mixed with the atomised fuel and ignites. The piston is driven down the cylinder. As it descends the piston first uncovers the Exhaust Port. The pressurised exhaust gases flow out of the cylinder. A fraction after the Exhaust Port is uncovered, the descending piston uncovers the Transfer Port. The piston is now pressurising the air in the crankcase, which is forced through the Transfer Port and into the space above the piston. Part of the incoming air charge is lost out of the still-open Exhaust Port to ensure all the exhaust gases are cleared from the cylinder (a process known as 'scavenging'). The piston then reaches the bottom of its stroke and begins to rise again, drawing a fresh charge of air into the crankcase and completing the cycle. Induction and Compression are carried out on the upward stroke and Power and Exhaust on the downward stroke.
A supply of lubricating oil must be fed to the crankcase to supply the crankshaft. This means that a two-stroke hot-bulb engine will gradually burn its supply of lubricating oil – a design known as a 'total loss' lubricating system. There were also designs that employed a scavenge pump or similar to remove oil from the crankcase and return it to the lubricating oil reservoir. Lanz hot-bulb tractors and their many imitators had this feature. This reduces oil consumption considerably.
In addition, if excess crankcase oil is present on start up, there is a danger of the engine starting and accelerating uncontrollably to well past the RPM limits of the rotating and reciprocating components. This can result in destruction of the engine. There is normally a bung or stopcock that allows draining of the crankcase before starting.
The lack of valves and the doubled-up working cycle also means that a two-stroke hot bulb engine can run equally well in both directions. A common starting technique for smaller two-stroke engines is to turn the engine over against the normal direction of rotation. The piston will 'bounce' off the compression phase with sufficient force to spin the engine the correct way and start it. This bi-directional running was an advantage in marine applications as the engine could, like the steam engine. The direction could be reversed either by stopping the engine and starting it again in the other direction or, with sufficient skill and timing on the part of the operator, slowing the engine until it carried just enough momentum to bounce against its own compression and run the other way. This was an undesirable quality in hot-bulb powered tractors equipped with gearboxes. At very low engine speeds the engine could reverse itself almost without any change in sound or running quality and without the driver noticing until the tractor drove in the opposite direction to that intended. Lanz Bulldog tractors featured a dial, mechanically driven by the engine, that showed a spinning arrow. The arrow pointed in the direction of normal engine rotation – if the dial spun the other way the engine had reversed itself.

Hot bulb engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:T%C3%A4ndkulemotor.png" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ec/T%C3%A4ndkulemotor.png/200px-T%C3%A4ndkulemotor.png"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/e/ec/T%C3%A4ndkulemotor.png/200px-T%C3%A4ndkulemotor.png

[Bigbjorn]

Lanz Bulldogs would run on anything that would vaporise in the hot bulb. They were a fair bastard to start on a cold morning. We had a yard crane out at Winton built on one. An apprentice job was to start the thing. If we knew we were going to use it again that day, it would often be turned down to low idle, about 120 rpm and left running. Cold starting involved use of the workshop oxy-acetylene trolley. Cockies often lit fires of gidgee under the hot bulb and took a blow torch to the oil reservoir.

[wrinklearthur]

yep, the lanz will run on anything that has a pour point that sort of resembles a proper liquid. I bet but, probably wouldnt try, that it would run on 80/90 diff oil once it was started.

as for the lube oil I was once shown by an old bloke a drip tester, basically a 1/2inch wide tube with an X size hole in the bottom of it, any oil that poured out or dripped better than about 2 drips a second was good to go for lube oil.

Hi All

This is wierd! [bigsmile1] Yesterday I caught up to my first cousin who had just picked up a KL bulldog and was on the way home with his treasure.

The old bloke who originally brought the tractor, was our grandfather (don't worry folks! he also owned a Fergie FE35 :D)

Now, dont used any EP oils in any engine, as serious damage can occur in the bore very quickly from the accumulating Aluminium oxide.:thumbsdown:

The family was proud of the bulldogs, (yes they had two), and used to say the bulldogs would run all day on a pad of butter! :cool:

They found by experience that you shouldn't leave the bulldog slowly popping away in a sandy paddock while you went off to have lunch.
When you came back, the tractor would have buried itself down to the diff housing ! :o

Starting a Bulldog was always a treat, the dozens of cousins, would gather around to watch the blow tourch be filled up with a mixture called benzine, the hot bulb at the front of the motor would then have a firey wakeup.
At a mysterious moment when the old uncle, ( although He was probably half of what my age is now, :wheelchair:) would say "its ready", He would then reach over and pull the steering wheel and its column out of a clamp, proceeding to place the steering wheel column into the side of the tractor through a little plate on the flywheel cover.
Then heaving on the steering wheel, rocking the flywheel, a sudden bang and cloud of smoke would shoot up into the boughs of the pine tree. were there where about the half a dozen chooks perched up in the tree, set there by the dogs, the sudden explosion would blow those chooks right out into the yard, to run for their lives with the dogs flatout after them. :wasntme:
Some times the engine would run backwards, so uncle would slow the tractor engine right down until it bounced on the compression, spinning the flywheel back the other way and then open the throttle up, us kids were made, the noise was glorious!! :arms::arms::ehigh5::ehigh5:

Cheers Arthur

[Jojo]

Owner's manual for Lanz Bulldog (http://www.lanzbulldog.de/Dokumente/Betriebsanleitung_LANZ_HR5+HR6.pdf) in German, of course :cool:.
As for the oil it states (on page 12) what specs are required.

Some more links that might be of interest:
Lanz Bulldog Forum (http://www.lanzbulldog.de/forum/) (German/English/French)
Lanz Bulldog Homepage (http://www.lanz-bulldog-homepage.de/index.html) (in German)

Great stuff!

[Bearman]

yep, the lanz will run on anything that has a pour point that sort of resembles a proper liquid. I bet but, probably wouldnt try, that it would run on 80/90 diff oil once it was started.

as for the lube oil I was once shown by an old bloke a drip tester, basically a 1/2inch wide tube with an X size hole in the bottom of it, any oil that poured out or dripped better than about 2 drips a second was good to go for lube oil.

I remember when I was a youngster the bloke who farmed the land next to where Dad grew wheat/barley near Dalby had a Bulldog. He never bought fuel for it. Used to go to Hastings and all the servos and car dealerships and garages and get all their old sump oil and kero/cleaning fluid, filter it and run the old Bulldog on it. It used to look like a steam train on the horizon the amount of smoke it belched out. The Field Marshall would also run on this mixture. I remember the old man starting it with the roll up paper that screwed into the front of the cylinder and the shotgun shell in winter time. If you started it up in a shed you couldn't see for about 5 minutes. Let it idle in soft country and it would bury itself.

[wagoo]

Nice story Wrinkly:)
Wagoo.

[wrinklearthur]

Nice story Wrinkly:)
Wagoo.
Hi All

Spoke to the cousin this morning and he might post some pictures of the Bulldogs, keep your fingers crossed, but dont hold your breath, as he wont be able to post for a couple of days, I would like you conscious, although your fingers maybe cramped :angel:.

Cheers Arthur

[rick130]

Arthur, that would be :cool:

A mate is an old tractor fancier, buys the old tractor magazines, etc. and has just bought himself another Fordson and he actually uses them for work. ATM he's contract fencing.
He often speaks of the Bulldogs, old Pommy stuff that I cant remember ATM, etc.

He keeps making googoo eyes at my Fiat 550 but i just tell him to bugger off. Anyway, it's too young for him, it's a '69 or '70 model :D

He isn't very 'net savvy but I'll try and point him in this direction if photos eventuate.

[Bigbjorn]

Lots of makes of tractors were hard starters. I remember rellies using sticks with fuel soaked rags tied on and set alight to be held over the air intakes of their tandem Oliver crawlers on a cold Darling Downs morning. The engines would stutter and pop and run on varying numbers of cylinders and blow smoke rings until warmed up.

The advent of push button cold start tractors consigned all these mongrel things to the scrap heap.

[wrinklearthur]

Hi All

Spoke to the cousin this morning and he might post some pictures of the Bulldogs, keep your fingers crossed, but dont hold your breath, as he wont be able to post for a couple of days, I would like you conscious, although your fingers maybe cramped :angel:.

Cheers Arthur

Hi All

Well for those who did hold their breath, you can now start breathing now.
But, only if you can help me with retrieving the photo's from a email, Joe has just sent me.
Maybe if someone that can post picture easily on this forum, could pm with their email address then I could in turn, forward the email to them.
By the way, included is a scaned copy of a Shell lubrication chart.

Cheers Arthur

[Blknight.aus]

In this thread. (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/124267-kl-bulldog-pics-wrinkleauthor-18fullsizepics.html#post1440468)