Tyre dealers find a inventive way to stuff things up

[rmp]

Well I thought I'd seen every way a tyre dealer could screw things up from ordering the wrong tyres, giving people incorrect advice, mounting directionals backwards and not knowing road regs. But today the industry amazed me yet again.

Five new KM2s arrived, which was something of a minor miracle. I checked the tyres were indeed to spec before they were mounted - quite often they turn out to be 16s instead of 17s or ATs instead of muds, guess as long as it's black and round who cares - and all appeared to go well, including the alignment. I asked to see the alignment report which was duly handed over.t.

It looked suss. The rear hadn't been adjusted but was out of limits, the front toe had been markedly changed and camber was apparently meant to be zero. So I asked questions.

"What alignment specs did you use?"
"Well, a Discovery like yours, but our machine didn't have a 2008 model."
"So you used?"
"A 2002 spec. Should be close enough mate".

And these people sell and fit tyres. My god. While not expecting him to be up on Disco model years anyone should know that often vehicles change quite dramatically and a six-year gap should be cause for concern. So I explained the '02 models are live axle and the D3s are full-indie for starters, let alone other differences. Did not grasp the concept or the implication. They are both Discoverys therefore what is the problem?

Oh and the rear toe was left as-is....because the fitter reckoned there were no adjustment bolts. I reckoned different and after a brief search we located them ("oh dear, missed that"). Anyway the '02 Discos were live axles so rear toe never came into it so why would a D3 need it!

They then attempted to mollify me by saying that as long as I rotated the reguarly tyres a misalignment would be fine as uneven patterns would even out. Honestly, you can't make this stuff up.

We got into an argument which involved various alignment terms. I'm not a expert in the area, only understand what I view as the basics, but I recognise those that are, and these guys were not.

Leaving aside the poor tyre wear on new muddies I mentioned the handling would be affected. Didn't seem to ring a bell and on the basis that the fitter had conducted a 5 minute roadtest and "it drove fine mate" that was as far as they wanted to take it. This from the pro that used the '02 specs and didn't know how to adjust rear toe.

The manager slunk off at this point but I'm not leaving it there. I am appalled, again, by this industry that consistenly gets things wrong. If they aren't telling people unroadworthy tyres are roadworthy they're ignoring load ratings, not understanding offset vs rim width telling people they need a 8.5" rim when the correct answer may be 7-8" and 8.5 is an average. If they want to compete with the overseas sellers they have a long to go for service and knowledge let alone price.

Oh yes and I didn't specify the pressures I wanted, just out of morbid curiosity to see what they'd do. I wanted to see if they'd beat the record of 50psi all round. Well nearly, 48psi all round, very consistent. Thanks boys, remind me how you worked that one out again? And yes, I did want the white lettering on the inside, thanks for asking.

Rant over, so be warned do not expect your tyre 'professional' to be professional. Watch them like a hawk all the way through. I think all the chains are the same, there's a few good shops around but I didn't have the luxury of using one this time.

[Blknight.aus]

Thats why I dont pay for the rubber till its fitted and the alignments done to my satisfaction.

"sorry mate, rip em off put my old rubber back on and put the alignment back where it was."

[Neil P]

.."sorry mate, rip em off put my old rubber back on ...."
I've done that twice in the last 6 years . 1st occasion wrong tyres &
tried to get me to buy 'em for $20 off 4 ( Tossers ! ) and the 2nd
was fitted someone elses,which were sitting next to my set
( unfortunate for the guy ..... ). Got the D3 set-up for free with
the new warranty diffs last Sept . Very little adjustment required.
One of the big complaints is no balancing on glued-on weights
( Honda Civic was one of ours ) . They just screw-drivered them
off , and that was as good as it got . Nothin' said . Let's be totally
honest here ; most of these places are staffed by unskilled kids
and adult ******* . It's the same the world over from my experience ....

[NomadicD3]

Ok Robert, ahh not much to add other than OM*G, that rant is almost beyond comprehension and well and truly justified. I'm still trying to decide if i should be stunned or LM*AO:D. On the bight side at least it's comforting to know that east coasters occasionally have the type of service which is considered about standard on the west :cool:.

[rmp]

Another one I remember was fitting steel rims to my Defender, the offset turned out to be something like 30mm off from where it should be. The dealer tried to argue it was no big problem. So I grabbed his copy of the Tire and Rim Manual, found the section where it talks about offset and read it to him, asked if he'd like me to photocopy my own book and send it with his comments to head office as clearly he knew something about vehicle setup that nobody else in the world was privy to.

What makes me angry is that I can usually pick up these issues but there are people out there who, quite reasonably, trust these guys and are driving around with the wrong kit, wrongly set up.

[brad72]

As an engineer this amazes me. What happened to pride in your workmanship and the attitude of you never stop learning. If built machinery that wasn't up to scratch it would cost me a fortune, not not to mention being dangerous and unfit for purpose .

I feel most sorry for the customer that may not be mechanically minded and relies on reputable franchise doing the right thing.

[clubagreenie]

Pride in workmanship went out with national service. And the whole country's been going down the toilet since. Unfortunately there'sa not enough hours left in my life to "educate" all those who need it.

[Discophil]

I had my last set of tyres (coopers HT Plus) fitted at Graeme Cooper (Syd) and they did a great job. Not only did they actually fit what i asked, they carried out a balance that finally got rid a a steering wheel wobble at 80km/hr that 3 other tyre dealers could not fix.

Thanks guys!:clap2:

[trobbo]

about the only thing I'm surprised about Robert is that you let a tyre dealer do the wheel alignment on your car. :angel:

I thought the car had to be put into a special mode/height to allow the wheel alignment to be completed, and for me that is enough to say that only an LR specialist will ever do the wheel alignment on my D3

[Neil P]

...What happened to pride in your workmanship and the attitude of you never stop learning.
I'm fifty odd , and in the 35 years I've employed/hired people , I've
not been impressed with 90+ % of any cross section of job classification
employee/contractor that's passed my way . The average person is
a waste of space , and many are fit for cannon fodder . I'm surprised that
you expect better , because you won't get it from most people.

[roverrescue]

This here is your problem:
'Rant over, so be warned do not expect your tyre 'professional' to be professional.'

Nothing at all to do with the tyre shop - just your expectations ;)

S

[land864]

Can I ask in which areaof Mlbourne it was RMP?

[brad72]

I'm fifty odd , and in the 35 years I've employed/hired people , I've
not been impressed with 90+ % of any cross section of job classification
employee/contractor that's passed my way . The average person is
a waste of space , and many are fit for cannon fodder . I'm surprised that
you expect better , because you won't get it from most people.


I sadly have to agree. It is really hard to find good tradesman these days. I have to pay well above award wages to stop the good ones going off to the mines. Maybe that's why i do so much myself so I know it's done right the 1st time.

[discojools]

What is most worrying is the tyre pressure thing. Most people would not check the pressures after having tyres fitted by a dealer and would happily drive round with pressures in the high 40s and therefore a lot less grip. I think its bloody dangerous and to me may explain why there are so many accidents here. All the tyre dealers and some servicers I have dealt with here in Aus have consistently given the car back to me with much higher pressures than recommended.. When I lived in the UK (where there a third less fatalities and speeds are much higher ) I never had this problem.. It seems to be a unique Aussie thing.

[jonesfam]

This may be wrong but a tyre fitter once told me that when most fitters pump up a new tyre to seat the bead they don't bother to bleed the tyre back to the correct pressure?
I also think some of them do it so you think you are getting fantastic fuel consumption out of the U beaut new tyres.
Pity about the ride & handling.
Jonesfam

[austastar]

Hi,
I had 5 new tyres fitted to my Camper by a large tyre company before I went to WA in 2004.
I was changing tyre size to get radials instead of the LT tyres that were now getting very worn, and the radials were about 10% smaller.
Was very pleased with the handling, and the lower ratio made the truck handle very well.
I was one pleased puppy.
Leave Hobart for Burnie on Friday to Catch the ferry on Saturday night after staying 1 night night in Burnie.
Wake up Sat am, one tyre flat - damn!
Must have a nail or something, off with the wheel and run it in to Burnie in time for it to be fixed on the Saturday morning.
Pick the wheel up just before closing time, only to be told "No nail, the tube was over size and had creased and rubbed a hole"
The turkeys had put the old tube back in!
Grrrr!
Ok, lets buy 4 new tubes in case of trouble.
Nope! No more of that size in stock.
So the situation is that I have possibly 4 tyres with the wrong size tubes in them on the truck, all potential trouble, and one spare that is now ok, and now everything is shut and I catch the Ferry to Melbourne in a few hours to arrive in Melbourne on a Sunday morning.
Ok, can we reach Ballarat with out trouble?
No way do I want to be in Melbourne with tyre problems.
Made it ok, and next morning went to another large tyre dealer in Ballarat and explained my problem.
i.e. Not sure of the tubes, but they could all be the wrong size, or they could all be ok.
"No problems".
They would check them all and charge $28 for fitting a new tube for each one that was faulty.
I thought that was very good value from Beaurepairs in Ballarat, no way would I pull four truck tyres off and on for just over $100, let-alone fit new tubes as well.

Yes, all four tubes were original, oversize for the new tyres and creasing.

You would think that after asking advice about five new radial tyres to replace the old ones, specifically for a long mainland trip that new tubes would have been fitted.

cheers

[Bushwanderer]

TBH, I think that your radials are likely to be tubeless tyres, which means fitting ANY tube will be problematic.

Best of Luck,
Peter

[Owl]

TBH, I think that your radials are likely to be tubeless tyres, which means fitting ANY tube will be problematic.

Best of Luck,
Peter

But probably on split rims - so little choice!

[rmp]

Various responses:

I won't name the chain or the area. In my experience, which includes helping many others with this, all chains and areas are the same with occasional bright spots which are due to invidual talent and intelligence on behalf of the store manager or staff, not corporate strategy.

Refer to the FAQ - D3s can be aligned without being put into the alignment mode. I went over this with Land Rover themselves.

Tyres fitters and pressures - I wouldn't attempt to ascribe to logic what can be explained by plain ignorance.

Tyre pressures - if I had to choose between a certain amount too high or too low I'd go too high. The manufacturers recommended is too low for the average touring 4WD which runs tougher tyres and more weight, therefore needs a few more psi. But some people run on the principle that if a little is good, a lot must be better so you end up with crazy pressures. I'm going to experiment with these muds, but I suspect 38 will be fine around town increasing to 40 for high-speed, max-GVM runs. 48...can't ever see the need for that! But tyre pressures are a much-misunderstood art.

[Jesse B]

Interesting discussion re tyre pressures - when I had the new wheels fitted this morning the shop manager commented that it looked like I'd been running the old 19" Pirelli's a bit low on pressure. I'd had them around 33-34 on the front and 36 or so on the back most of the time, measured cold on my own (expensive) Michelin gauge - but he pointed out that most of them were wearing on the outer portion of the tread, both inside and out. Bit of a surprise, given that I was running pretty much slap on what LR suggests on the sticker. I do recall someone a few months or a year ago suggesting that I should run them a bit higher - but cannot recall who. Seems they may have been right.

[rmp]

Interesting discussion re tyre pressures - when I had the new wheels fitted this morning the shop manager commented that it looked like I'd been running the old 19" Pirelli's a bit low on pressure. I'd had them around 33-34 on the front and 36 or so on the back most of the time, measured cold on my own (expensive) Michelin gauge - but he pointed out that most of them were wearing on the outer portion of the tread, both inside and out. Bit of a surprise, given that I was running pretty much slap on what LR suggests on the sticker. I do recall someone a few months or a year ago suggesting that I should run them a bit higher - but cannot recall who. Seems they may have been right.

I concur with the manager, sounds like under-inflation. As I said mfr pressures are a bit low especially for offroad tyres which are less able to dissapiate heat and need a couple more psi. And with touring weight as well.

To check pressures draw all over your tyre with chalk and go for a drive. The chalk should wear evenly across the tyre. Avoid full-lock turns however as the camber changes at lock, just drive normally. Waiting till you see uneven wear is a bit late.

[Bushwanderer]

But probably on split rims - so little choice!

Hi Owl,
I agree, actually NO choice but to not run tubeless tyres.

Best Wishes,
Peter

[austastar]

Hi,
yep, split rims- thus the LT tyres as original I suppose.
cheers

[scarry]

I'm fifty odd , and in the 35 years I've employed/hired people , I've
not been impressed with 90+ % of any cross section of job classification
employee/contractor that's passed my way . The average person is
a waste of space , and many are fit for cannon fodder . I'm surprised that
you expect better , because you won't get it from most people.

I can't agree more.:mad:

After 20yrs of employing staff in my own business,i have finally given up.The best staff i ever had were my own son's,& i believe this was because they were trained correctly & also have the correct work ethic.

I must say,though,over the years i had some pretty good subcontracters,but they were all smaller owner operaters.

As for staff,well, i won't go there.:mad::mad:

As for tyre shops,i recently went to one & the guy tried to tell me the Hiace is front wheel drive,that's why they wear out the front tyres quickly:eek::(

[rmp]

As for tyre shops,i recently went to one & the guy tried to tell me the Hiace is front wheel drive,that's why they wear out the front tyres quickly:eek::(

Interesting perspective guys, I didn't realise all that. Goes a way to explaining things I think. Why do you think this is?

Personally I'm not seeing a real burning curiosity to figure out how something works these days, more a case of 'whatever the minimum is to flick the job and move on'. There's also a bit of lack of pride, you know the 50% extra effort to do the 10% extra on the job to make it really good.

Another example - I've lost count of the times people with FW hubs have told me they need to be unlocked every time they drive even a short period on bitumen, because their mechanic told them it was so.

[clubagreenie]

Same people who can't think that (if they were fitted a/m) that there was no option previously, they were always "engaged".

Today it's minimum cost (of parts and labour) for whatever the maximum we can sell it for. If it comes back well the overcharging we did on all our work covers the shoddy rework we'll do and hopefully if it comes back again it's out of the wty period.

[abaddonxi]

Been shopping for tyres this week. Not fun tyres, just something new for the Caravelle. So not exactly the way I wanted to spend my day. Had three shops tell me that this tyre would do the job. '100T load and speed?' I say. 'Absolutely' is the reply.

Seems I've become cynical, so I double check over the internet, which sometimes also means working out what the real name of the tyre is.

Of course not.

Wonder if I'd ever have worked it out if I'd just gone in and said, 'tyres please'?