Best diesel conversion for a Series 3

[Jimmy]

So I was wondering what would be the best desiel engine to put in a series 3, or better still what engines even fit. Obviously there are the landrover engines, and my thoughts are that the best optino is a 200tdi, with 5 speed box mated to a series transfer case and perhaps disco diff centres. But perhaps there are nissan diesels, or toyotas:o or some other brand that can easily slip in to provide a good option. Woudl a TD5 fit? maybe to tall and crazy.

I assume that almost anythign is possible, but some will just be serious cost. Ideally I would want the diesel to slip in without impact on the external/interior look of the car. My 6cly landy dreams of being a diesel.

Would the running gear from disco swap straight in (with lots of work)? would the atuo trans fit?

cheers
Jim

[Blknight.aus]

almost anythings doable with the most common repower from other landies being first and foremost a detuned tdi 200 and then retrofitting the tdiX00 with its matching box and tcase then getting the front axles modded to take CVs most people try for a stage one front end.

[JDNSW]

As Dave says, almost anything is possible. However, some of the factors to take into account-

1. While the Series transfer case is likely to withstand most engines, the same cannot be said about the gearbox, but any change to a different gearbox tends to get quite expensive to mate it to the transfer case, and is likely to mean moving the transfer case position, with changes to prop shafts, chassis cross members and possibly bodywork. And if it is a swb, then there is not a lot of room to move the box back before the rear prop shaft gets too short. To fit gearbox plus transfer case from a newer Landrover has the added problem that they are all full time four wheel drive, so you need to fit CV joints in the front, and the whole exercise becomes a whole lot more than just a new engine. This strongly suggests that unless you want to spend a lot of time and money, then you need to restrict yourself to a modest increase in power.

2. The advantage of the 200Tdi is that the engine is a development of the four cylinder Landrover engine, and hence is pretty much a drop in replacement, very similar bell housing, engine mount positions etc. Hence this is by far the easiest. Any other small enough diesel can be fitted more or less with just a bell housing adapter, but the range of engine rpm may mean you have to change the overall gearing either by overdrive, high ratio box or diffs.

John

[kaa45]

Have a look at this Expedition Land Rover site (http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/)
It's an American site, but lots of info and ideas and a section on engine conversion for series landies

[kaa45]

or this Message - AULRO Classifieds (http://www.aulro.com/apc/showproduct.php/product/4524/cat/12)

[kaa45]

or this one Message - AULRO Classifieds (http://www.aulro.com/apc/showproduct.php/product/4321/cat/12)

[llandro]

Some years ago we called into a garage in Rolleston, Qld.

The proprietor had quite a business in rebuilding series L/R's, strip completely, hot dip gal chassis and repower. On c/chassis models he built custom camping backs.
He was installing Daihatsu 2.8 t/charged engines complete with g/box and I think retaining the L/R transfer box.
He had 3 or so in part completion, he called them "Frazer Island Specials" due to the anti corrosion precautions.

Looked a very neat conversion and I imagine would be reliable.
llandro

[Bigbjorn]

What about getting one of the 5 bearing LR diesels from the UK? These were not sold here.

[isuzutoo-eh]

My Dad had a Daihatsu diesel powered Series 3 109 HT prior to 1982, he thought very highly of it at the time, though the engine replaced a tired 4 cylinder diesel. He doesn't remember what vehicle it came from...but it wasn't a 'big' engine, maybe ~3 litres, not more. The conversion was done in SYdney so not the 'Fraser Island Special' llandro spoke of.

[wagoo]

For a cheap reliable, economical, low cost conversion that won't break the bank, as a 200 or 300 TDI engine would when it needs a new turbo or cylinder head, I would look for a rusty Toyota BJ40 LandCruiser and transplant the 3 litre engine gearbox and transfercase complete into your LandRover.Forget trying to retain any of the series 3 transmission.Even the transfercase is strong enough only if you retain standard ratio diffs. You could even swap the better Toyota front and rear diff assemblies in as well for relaxed cruising speed , and which would give you a better turning circle and the option of easy and cheap disc brake conversion.
I bought a suitable bJ40 donor vehicle for $1300 at a 4wd swap meet a couple of years ago.
Wagoo.

[Dougal]

For a cheap reliable, economical, low cost conversion that won't break the bank, as a 200 or 300 TDI engine would when it needs a new turbo or cylinder head, I would look for a rusty Toyota BJ40 LandCruiser and transplant the 3 litre engine gearbox and transfercase complete into your LandRover.Forget trying to retain any of the series 3 transmission.Even the transfercase is strong enough only if you retain standard ratio diffs. You could even swap the better Toyota front and rear diff assemblies in as well for relaxed cruising speed , and which would give you a better turning circle and the option of easy and cheap disc brake conversion.
I bought a suitable bJ40 donor vehicle for $1300 at a 4wd swap meet a couple of years ago.
Wagoo.

The 3 litre would be the "B" engine which seems to be a dead-end for parts now. The 3B is the best for parts supply (3.4 litre) but it's down on power and up on fuel consumption compared to the landrover tdi's. The cylinder head story isn't better than a tdi they suffer head cracks and drop pre-combustion chambers occasionally.

[wagoo]

The 3 litre would be the "B" engine which seems to be a dead-end for parts now. The 3B is the best for parts supply (3.4 litre) but it's down on power and up on fuel consumption compared to the landrover tdi's. The cylinder head story isn't better than a tdi they suffer head cracks and drop pre-combustion chambers occasionally.

For the 3 months I drove the BJ before removing the engine/trans I reckon it had much better torque down low where it counts than any of the LandRover offerings bar the Isuzu 4bdI, and fuel economy was more than double that of my 2.25ltr petrol SWB.You reckon a 6cyl engined series 3 owner would think the 3B down on power?
Parts and rebuild kits are still available from a few of firms over here, and the previous owner of the vehicle I bought who ''refreshed'' the engine at a cost of $1600 after 425,000kms would disagree with your other observations.:)
Wagoo.

[isuzurover]

For the 3 months I drove the BJ before removing the engine/trans I reckon it had much better torque down low where it counts than any of the LandRover offerings bar the Isuzu 4bdI, and fuel economy was more than double that of my 2.25ltr petrol SWB.You reckon a 6cyl engined series 3 owner would think the 3B down on power?
Parts and rebuild kits are still available from a few of firms over here, and the previous owner of the vehicle I bought who ''refreshed'' the engine at a cost of $1600 after 425,000kms would disagree with your other observations.:)
Wagoo.

I must say I agree with Bill. I saw a couple of 3B and 3BT powered 101's in canada - complete with toyota 5-speeds and t-cases. The owners were very happy with the performance compared to the 3.5V8. And that was in a vehicle with the aerodynamics of a 2 story house.

However the 13BT or 15BT is a superior engine if you are going down the toyota path...

But as for "best" engine conversion options, it really depends. I have been looking for a 4JB1T (rodeo/jackaroo 2.8TD) for my IIA for a while now, but even very rusty holden 4x4s with them fitted sell for silly money. I have now somehow ended up with a 300Tdi disco, and while I am not a fan of those engines - tweaking the disco and whacking it in will by far be the most cost effective option... The isuzu can always follow if and when the 300 dies...

The easiest engine to fit to a series is undoubtedly the 2.25D, followed by the 200 Tdi, Isuzu C22, 300Tdi, and anything that comes with an off the shelf adaptor plate (in that order).

[Dougal]

I know the owner of a "mint condition" BJ40 with the 3 litre B engine. He's started stockpiling rebuild parts due to fears about the dwindling supply.

Power and fuel consumption is indeed relative. I have the before/after dyno plots here for a couple of 3B's, one being fitted with a turbo, before is 45-55hp to the ground, after close to 70hp. There were no factory 3BT's, only the 13BT, 14BT and 15BT.

[rovercare]

I know the owner of a "mint condition" BJ40 with the 3 litre B engine. He's started stockpiling rebuild parts due to fears about the dwindling supply.

Power and fuel consumption is indeed relative.

Like riding a kangaroo, spent years driving a BJ42 when I was a kid

I'd also agree with Bill and Ben, yea, run too cool and they kill the heads, but they still keep going and going and most outlast the rustbuckets they come in

I'd be aiming for a 3B though, the B's are gutless

3B's certainly aren't down on power in comparison to a rover tdi;)

[Dougal]

I had to tow the dead ski-club truck back from the mountains a few years back now. It was a daihatsu delta with the 3B. A precombustion cup had cracked and dropped into the cylinder - munch munch.

It was a stark reminder of how quickly an idi engine can die. It's not something you can easily check either.

[series3]

For the 3 months I drove the BJ before removing the engine/trans I reckon it had much better torque down low where it counts than any of the LandRover offerings bar the Isuzu 4bdI, and fuel economy was more than double that of my 2.25ltr petrol SWB.You reckon a 6cyl engined series 3 owner would think the 3B down on power?


Hi Wagoo,

Do you mean the Toyota used twice and much or half the amount of the Land Rover?

Sam

[wagoo]

Hi Wagoo,

Do you mean the Toyota used twice and much or half the amount of the Land Rover?

Sam

Now Sam, I wouldn't be suggesting the 3B deisel if it consumed twice as much fuel as a 2 1/4 litre petrol engine.:) That would mean I got about 7 MPG instead of the 28-30 mpg in a 50/50 mix of country and outer suburban Melbourne peak hour traffic operation.
Wagoo.

[Jimmy]

Are the crusier diffs wider than series though? I want to keep it as original looking as possible. Surely series(ex-army) diffs with disco centres must be good? Equally I look at the 200tdi conversion with defender box mated to series transfer sounds like the gear levers would be inthe same spot as original?

Just need to find cheap parts...

[Jimmy]

almost anythings doable with the most common repower from other landies being first and foremost a detuned tdi 200 and then retrofitting the tdiX00 with its matching box and tcase then getting the front axles modded to take CVs most people try for a stage one front end.

So what exactly does nodding the duffs to take cv joints involve? I assume it becomes full time 4wd, but what changes? Can disco or defender diffsjust be swapped in or are they to wide? Cheers

[isuzurover]

So what exactly does nodding the duffs to take cv joints involve? I assume it becomes full time 4wd, but what changes? Can disco or defender diffsjust be swapped in or are they to wide? Cheers

Series 3 Stage 1 axles already have CVs - I just fitted one of them.

Have a read here about fitting a coiller axle:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/124764-series-axle-conversion.html

However, plenty of jeeps were constant 4x4 and had UJs in the front axle. In a series you would notice a bit of feedback in the steering at full lock but that is all.

[wagoo]

Are the crusier diffs wider than series though? I want to keep it as original looking as possible. Surely series(ex-army) diffs with disco centres must be good? Equally I look at the 200tdi conversion with defender box mated to series transfer sounds like the gear levers would be inthe same spot as original?

Just need to find cheap parts...

Dim memory recalls that standard 2a wheel track is 51.5'' vs 53.5'' for the 40 series Toyotas vs 58.5'' for coil sprung LandRover axles
Wagoo.

[Jimmy]

Soooo...If I got a Stage one front axle and 200tdi engine, gearbox and transfer case from a defender it could all be put together reasonably easily? (reasonably being the key word).

OR, would it be better to keep teh defender transfer case? If so what are the implicatiosn for gear levers etc and where they pop up, and mounting parts?

Cheers
Jim

[isuzurover]

Dim memory recalls that standard 2a wheel track is 51.5'' vs 53.5'' for the 40 series Toyotas vs 58.5'' for coil sprung LandRover axles
Wagoo.

MWS-WMS (or drum/disc to drum/disc) is a better measure. IRC series axles are 55", and coilers are 61". I believe Hiluxes are about the same WMS measurement as series landies.

[wagoo]

MWS-WMS (or drum/disc to drum/disc) is a better measure. IRC series axles are 55", and coilers are 61". I believe Hiluxes are about the same WMS measurement as series landies.

That's the US Pirate way of measuring axles Ben, but doesn't take into account designed scrub radius, king pin inclination etc.I doubt you'd get away with WMS comparisons when attempting to get an axle swap engineered, if the engineer knew his stuff. A 4wd truck front axle that was designed for half dualls has a significantly larger WMS than actual track width for example.Fit regular single wheels from a 1300 Inter pickup to a duall wheel 1300 and the scrub radius and wheel bearing loads would be excessive. The Series spec sheet listed the track width on 5'' wide rims and 6.00x16s as 51.5''.They incorrectly gave the same for LWB and 2A FCs despite wider rims with greater offset. Maybe add 1'' to the track measurement for LWB 5.5'' rims. The RRC on 6'' Rostyle rims and 205x16s was 58.5''. May be wrong about the 40 series but was either 53.5" or 55.5''. Been a few years since I had a spec sheet on them.
Wagoo.

[simon.perigo]

JImmy
I have just transplanted a Nissan SD33T in series 3 LWB. From all accounts a very good cheap conversion if you can do it yourself. I have used the Nissan 5 speed box and transfer as well. Bit of a squeeze but easy with a chassis up build. Have not had it on the road yet but all the figures add up. The Nissan diff is a 4.6 and Landrover is 4.7 so good road speed is expected. The 6 cylinder is a very smooth engine and rated @ 110hp at somewhere around 3500-4000.
Very reliable drive train that can be run with no electronics as long as the engine is running or you have a long hill to roll start. Make sure it is a 12 volt system... My project was driven by designing a simple,reliable touring machine with the classic look.

[bemm52]

JImm

My project was driven by designing a simple,reliable touring machine with the classic look.
would like to see some pics of your touring machine
Cheers Paul