R380 Layshaft failure

[Psimpson7]

How common is it for these to fail? Mine broke yesterday, just cruising along at 100kmh on the road (on the way home from a weekend of wheeling)

Luckily it didnt break a couple of hours earlier as it would have been a nightmare.

Have lost 5th and Reverse.

Its a 01 and has done around 124k km

Are there any upgraded shafts available?

I am assuming anything non-genuine will be junk, or am I wrong?

If there are no upgraded options, what would be the best off the shelf option?

Thanks
Pete

[isuzurover]

This thread may be of interest:
Lost 5th & Reverse R380 Discovery 300TDi Gearbox (http://forum.landrovernet.com/showthread.php/144440-Lost-5th-amp-Reverse-R380-Discovery-300TDi-Gearbox)

Out of interest, what suffix R380?

[strangy]

Working on the assumption that your gears and mainshaft have survived and that the the bearings have been subjected to debris and you can/want to do it yourself.

Ashcroft in UK can provide a rebuild kit and shaft for around $500 AU

cheers

[justinc]

This thread may be of interest:
Lost 5th & Reverse R380 Discovery 300TDi Gearbox (http://forum.landrovernet.com/showthread.php/144440-Lost-5th-amp-Reverse-R380-Discovery-300TDi-Gearbox)

Out of interest, what suffix R380?

If its in Petes 90",it'd be a sufffix L. Strongest factory box:(

JC

[Psimpson7]

Hey JC, yes it was the 90, and I think it is a Suffix L Ben.

I will double check in a minute when I build up enough enthusiasm to go and have a look at it

[justinc]

Hey JC, yes it was the 90, and I think it is a Suffix L Ben.

I will double check in a minute when I build up enough enthusiasm to go and have a look at it

Sad news Pete, glad it happened in a better place by the sounds of it:(

Unusual problem for a suffix L, BUT the torque multiplication of a torquey engine, big grippy tyres, low range and low gears (1,2,3) will put a fair bit of strain/ deflection on the layshaft.

These are the box favoured by some with 4BD1T conversions,
If you need me to help source bits Pete, give me a call.

JC

[shaunp]

It happens, they shear the back bit off the shaft, It will need just that and a freshen up, the rest will fine as 5th is in the extention housing.. Most 5 speeds blow 5th gear sooner or later, particularly if you labour them in 5th, or tow hard in 5th. Patrols do them all the time they tear the spline off the shaft.

[Psimpson7]

Thanks Justin, That's very kind.

Once I Have it out and an idea of what is broken I will give you a call.

I think it may be a bit of a mess as there was a large pool of oil under it when I went out a minte ago.

I can confirm it is a Suffix L

I have just removed both the props, Exhaust, gearbox crossmember, and handbrake drum. Will carry on tomorow evening.

Cheers for the comments all. I will update this as I find whats happened.

Rgds
Pete

[rick130]

It happens, they shear the back bit off the shaft, It will need just that and a freshen up, the rest will fine as 5th is in the extention housing.. Most 5 speeds blow 5th gear sooner or later, particularly if you labour them in 5th, or tow hard in 5th. Patrols do them all the time they tear the spline off the shaft.


Nice to see you back posting Shaun, been a while ;)

[rick130]

[snip]
I think it may be a bit of a mess as there was a large pool of oil under it when I went out a minte ago.

[snip]

Ouch :(

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Nice to see you back posting Shaun, been a while ;)

X2:D

[isuzurover]

Hey Pete, I think you should get Sam to drive all the hard tracks in future - she is much gentler on the drivetrain ;)

Let me know if you need a hand pulling the box out.

[Psimpson7]

Ok I got this out and on the bench by Wednesday evening.

Grimace has just given me a hand to strip it down and it doesn't look good.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/03/476.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/03/477.jpg

Casing damage :(

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/03/478.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/03/479.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/03/480.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/03/481.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/03/83.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/02/689.jpg

[uninformed]

were there any signs leading up to the failure.....I can only assume it will happen to mine sooner than later....98 110 with 2.8tgv and tow 1.8t 5 days a week......

[rick130]

This suffix J did unfortunately have a couple of design flaws which gave the R 380 some bad press, they were prone to the mainshaft shearing across the oil feed holes, the layshaft also sheared at a stress concentration behind the sandwich plate causing loss of 5th and reverse also early ones still suffered from mainshaft wear until the cross drilled transfer case gears became fitted as standard on the suffix G transfer cases.
In 1999 the suffix K was used very briefly for a few months then came the suffix L. The K and L are virtually identical, the only difference I have found is the L outer main casing has an additional strengthening rib, internals are the same. The J and K/L are very different, 2 of the bearings were substantially uprated and pinion and layshaft teeth were widened again, this results in a much stronger unit.From Ashcrofts.



It's sheared as the earlier 'J' boxes did.


Looking at it I'm guessing an insufficient radius or a step or some other form of stress raiser where the shaft sections from the bearing to the gear ?

[edit] Should someone PM Dave and ask his opinion ?

[Psimpson7]

Would be interesting to see what his opinion is.

I am assuming the rear housing is scrap because of the damage around where the oil pump goes.

Serg, there was no warning what-so ever. My girlfriend was driving, doing a steady 100k on a light throttle opening in 5th when it let go.

Its a shame that there don't seem to be any upgrade options for them.

I may start looking into an Auto conversion.

[ashtrans]

Hi,

it need'nt cost that much to fix, an auto conversion will be much more :

layshaft £ 85
2 x support bearings £ 32
pump £ 34 (includes ali housing)
5th main if required £ 38
5th lay if required £ 38
layshaft nut £ 3
rear seal £ 3

Dave

[Psimpson7]

Thanks Dave,

Thats good news. Will give you guys a shout during the week to order some bits!

Rgds
Pete

[Psimpson7]

Quick update on this one.

I ordered a load of bits on Thursday night at about 9pm from Dave, and they arrived at 10am this morning! :)

Very impressive. Have since discovered I needed a few more bits, so emailed Dave and they will be shipped today.

This is what I ordered in the first order:

layshaft , genuine
2 x support bearings - rear of extension housing, lay and main shaft.
Oil pump and o'ring.
layshaft nut
rear main shaft oil seal
Oil seal collar
ring oil feed
Oil filter
2 x Oil bypass Orings
main shaft circlip (Fitted to main shaft within extension housing)
front cover oil seal

The extra bits are the front and centre layshaft support bearings (TZZ100200 and FTC2385), the reverse idler bearing, and the steel ring that sits in the front of the oil feed ring.

I've already fitted the oil pump, seal and bearings in the extension housing.

[Psimpson7]

Question for anyone who has worked on an R380.

Why does the manual only specify 1 roll pin in this hole, when it goes all the way through.

What is confusing me even more is that I dont think there was one atall when I stripped the box.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/882.jpg


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/883.jpg