200Tdi vs 300Tdi bellhousing bolt pattern?

[isuzurover]

How different are the bolt patterns?

I know the 200 has the same bolt pattern as the 2.25 and 2.5P/D engines (+/- 1 bolt).

I have read the 300tdi has basically the same bolt pattern as the V8 - is that correct??? Does anyone have the measurements (PCD and bolt spacing)?

I have also read that you can bolt the engine bellhousing from a 200Tdi onto a 300Tdi - any truth to that???

[isuzurover]

Hmm - maybe I can answer my own questions:

This is a 200Tdi bellhousing prepped to fit a series Gearbox (one stud needs to be removed):
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/03/611.jpg

This is a 300Tdi bellhousing:
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs780.ash1/167055_191992110829273_100000554553892_666911_4515 764_n.jpg
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs780.ash1/167023_191992190829265_100000554553892_666912_8107 966_n.jpg

And this is the same bellhousing prepped to mate to a series gearbox:
http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/181622_196228627072288_100000554553892_695124_2952 322_n.jpg
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/182910_196228660405618_100000554553892_695125_1189 754_n.jpg

I am not sure why the wings at the bottom need to be cut off???

So, it seems that the PCD of 200Tdi and 300Tdi and Series are the same, only the stud spacing differs. It also seems like a 200Tdi engine bellhousing would fit a 300 if you cut the same hole in the middle???

Anyone know what the wings are for on the 300 housing?

[roverrescue]

The wings have bolts which then extend back towards braces off the R380, bracing supports for the enormous torque I guess.
'edit: hang on a minutes maybe they go forward to the engine mount brackets, cant remebr right now - but thinking engine mounts ATMO'

Does this also mean that a 300 bell housing with some poke jiggery in the studs could be mated to a series gear case??? Flywheel clutch may need some finessing but if PCD are the same?

S

[isuzurover]

Does this also mean that a 300 bell housing with some poke jiggery in the studs could be mated to a series gear case???

S

Yes it certainly can - have a read here: 300TDI flywheel housing mods - before and after photos (http://www.series2club.info/forum/index.php'topic=41825.0)

And here: http://www.lro.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=27236&start=10

(Though I personally would redrill the series bellhousing so I could use at least 12 of the 300Tdi bolts - not use only 9 like this guy did).

It seems that 300's are just as easy to fit to a series as a 200.

[rick130]

The wings have bolts which then extend back towards braces off the R380, bracing supports for the enormous torque I guess.
'edit: hang on a minutes maybe they go forward to the engine mount brackets, cant remebr right now - but thinking engine mounts ATMO'

[snip]
S

:lol2:

and they go forward :D

[isuzurover]

:lol2:

and they go forward :D

Any pics of these braces rick? So they run from the engine bellhousing to the engine mounts?

[rick130]

Any pics of these braces rick? So they run from the engine bellhousing to the engine mounts?

IIRC they go back to the block Ben.

I can get some piccies tomorrow.

[roverrescue]

If they are incorporated into the ingin mounts, I have a set of 300 mounts on the shed floor at the mo and could take some pics and dimensions if needed Ben?

Thanks for linkies on bolting a 300 to a series box. I am part owner/caretaker of a IIa wagon with some real australian history, it has been converted to a holden 6 (whichi s probably not a major problem ... but???) Soon Ill have an old flogged and dusted 300 taking up shed space which may indeed be a good match, sans hair dryer for a series!

S

[roverrescue]

Ben,
I just ducked out and had a squiz.
The 'wings' do indeed bolt to the engine mounts.
The mount which is bolted to the 300block incorporates some 5 ish mm plate which extends back to a bracket which picks up bolts through the flywheel housing wings. This steel engine mount then bolts to the rubber mount then to chassis.

As I mentioned above I have a set of these steel engine mounts seperated on the shed floor. I guess if you are bolting in a 300 you would get these mounts from the donor though? Unless you had a bare block donor engine?

I still think it is to stabilise and control the enormous torque pulses of the 300!

S

[isuzurover]

Ben,
I just ducked out and had a squiz.
The 'wings' do indeed bolt to the engine mounts.
The mount which is bolted to the 300block incorporates some 5 ish mm plate which extends back to a bracket which picks up bolts through the flywheel housing wings. This steel engine mount then bolts to the rubber mount then to chassis.

As I mentioned above I have a set of these steel engine mounts seperated on the shed floor. I guess if you are bolting in a 300 you would get these mounts from the donor though? Unless you had a bare block donor engine?

I still think it is to stabilise and control the enormous torque pulses of the 300!

S

Thanks!

I now (for better or worse?) own a 300Tdi disco. So I assume it will have the same setup, and I can use the disco mounts and "torque pulse bracing :D "???

Since I basically have a free engine, and 4JB1Ts are worth silly money still, the plans have changed to bolt the 300Tdi+stumpy200Tdi bellhousing (thanks Ashcroft) + R380 + MR 50% lower LT230 into my IIA.

Of course if someone in WA has a good 200Tdi they want to swap for a good 300Tdi...

Your old, worn 300 sounds like a good candidate for de-T-ing. However given your oil analysis results I would throw a new set of bearings in it (if you haven't already).

[roverrescue]

The worn 300 is still plugging along in the fender at the moment (drinking oil)
The rebuild is going slowlllllly due to parts stuck in cairns and me with no desire to drive down and get em!

I guess the only issue with the 300 into a series without a turbo is having to make an exhaust manifold - not end of the world but hassle. A 300 with appropriate timing case components and well sorted head and gasket shouldnt pose any reliability issues compared with a 200. Why not go crazy and convert the timing case to chain drive splash lubricated from crank seal? Couldnt be too hard for someone of your engineering capabilities!

S

[isuzurover]

The worn 300 is still plugging along in the fender at the moment (drinking oil)
The rebuild is going slowlllllly due to parts stuck in cairns and me with no desire to drive down and get em!

I guess the only issue with the 300 into a series without a turbo is having to make an exhaust manifold - not end of the world but hassle. A 300 with appropriate timing case components and well sorted head and gasket shouldnt pose any reliability issues compared with a 200. Why not go crazy and convert the timing case to chain drive splash lubricated from crank seal? Couldnt be too hard for someone of your engineering capabilities!

S

Don't the 2.5D (na) manifolds fit?

In the case of a 200/300Tdi into a series with series gearbox, I personally, would just turn down the boost a bit, instead of removing the turbo. If you turn the boost down to ~7psi or so an intercooler is practically useless, so you can remove all that, but still have some benefit from the turbo, at levels which hopefully won't kill the box.

A conversion to a timing chain would be tempting, but probably too much effort, unless I can make it a project for a final year mech eng student...

[roverrescue]

Final year project, then talk with the business school an get one of their final years to market it and voila - Aussie Made solution!

It surely would be cheaper than stinkin noisy gear sets that detonate.

What is it, Three sprockets of two different sizes, a double row chain, a chain guide bolted in the idler position and a tensioning guide to the tensioner bolts holes.

With the available 'slop' in the IP shaft bracketry, the cam and crank design you could almost make the chain correct length, slide all three units directly onto shafts and then you would just need chain guides and no tensioning?

Its obviously not that simple otherwise someone would have done it by now - but everytime I look inside a timing case double row chains go round and round inside my head!!!

Nice idea on deboosting the hairdryer and losing the IC.