Starter Problems

[reubsrover]

Some time back I was driving along when smoke started pouring out from under the seats. When the disaster was over and the landy hadn't burnt to the ground she wouldn't start, all that could be heard was a clicking sound. Several months and a rebuilt gearbox later the problem still isn't fixed. The screwdriver start technique however isn't the best especially when one stalls the vehicle at traffic lights facing uphill with no hand brake. Anyway the hand brake should be a realativly easy fix, the starter has proved not to be after three hours learning about electrics and relays.

So the problem is a loud clicking sound can be heard eminating from what I thought was the starter. After installing a relay and still experiencing the same problem I've narrowed it down to a strange looking object which I need help identifying. I don't have a camera however so hoepfully someone is familar with this (I assume is came with the holden engine and wasn't stock).

It seems to be some kind of relay or switch. There are three wires going into it, one from the ignition, one to the distributor, and one to the starter solenoid. The writing on it is "Ingram 9557 12 Volt" as well as the company name Ingram Lmt or something similar.

The clues I've gleaned as to what it does are not that helpful but I can start the car by shorting the unidentified object (Ingram) but then it will run with very bad timing unless I pull the wire from 'Ingram' to the dizzy off, at which point the car idles away happliy. If I try to start the car without this wire to the dizzy on however nothing will happen.

The easiest option would be to take it to an auto sparky but I'm learning and enjoying the challange...can anyone identify the said object as clearly the starter is fine and it would be getting enough power (i.e. a relay isn't the easy fix) if this Ingram thing was working.

Thanks

[reubsrover]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/03/602.jpg
Ok so what I'm talking about seems to be a solenoid (mine looks like the one on the left). Does this mean that I have two solenoids in the starter circuit (I have a standard 186 starter motor) and if so any tips on rewiring so the landy gets enough power to the starter.

[Blknight.aus]

youve got yourself a handfull of faults there.

1. the part you are looking at is a starting solenoid or auxilary start relay.

its dead, which is why you have to short it out to get it to start.
the wire from the solenoid to the coil is the ballast resistor bypass which means the coil gets full voltage while the engine is cranking, this probably means that you have the wrong coil on the vehicle the coil is a 12v coil or an internally ballasted coil and while your cranking it without the wire from the coil to the solenoid in place its only seeing about 9v and therefore not throwing a good enough spark to light up the fuel air mix.

without looking as to exactly how its wired in I cant tell you how to simply remove it but it wont take much to do so with a couple of pics or a diagram showing exactly which leads go where from it and a trace of the wiring for the starter motor to the battery (which should have another decent sized relay in it if its not part of the one youve already described)

[reubsrover]

Thanks Dave,

Are they a specialist product or are thay widly available in any auto elects shop.

[Blknight.aus]

if its the same as the ones in the picture you can get them from any semi decent auto shop, yes that means super cheap.

be carefull though they exist in a few different configurations.

some earth the wiring for the solenoid through the body, some earth the wiring on a dedicated stud and some provide power from one of the main lugs and you need to earth the small stud to complete the circuit.

I suggest getting the one with the 2 small terminals to for the solenoid as this allows you to wire up a dead man switch that you can hide somewhere to isolate the solenoid as a primitive anti theft/anti-start (for when you need to work on the electrics live)

[Wolfman_TWP]

If your running a Holden motor, it's starter motor has the solenoid built in, so the other one isn't needed. One LR I bought (LWB 1975), was setup the same way, and I too had starting problems. So I by-pasted the 'LR' solenoid, and connected the battery wire directly to the Holden starter motor, and it starts first go now.

With all the extra crud, causes, earth problems, connection problems etc. So the less that's in between the better.

If that doesn't work, then a new starter motor is in order.. I just bought a brand new one for my new LWB (1974) for $140 on FleaBay. Popped it in, starts first go..

I'll see if I can find the proper starter wiring diagram (The Holden one).. Having a wire from the solenoid to the dissy doesn't sound right.

Wolf

[reubsrover]

"If your running a Holden motor, it's starter motor has the solenoid built in, so the other one isn't needed."

Yeah that's what I thought. So I wasn't sure what this thing giving me problems actually was as I din't think two solenoids were needed. My starter's definitly fine, so I would have got rid of this unworking solenoid and tried to by simply shorting it out however there was no start. Shorting the non working solenoid out and leaving the wirt to the dizzy connected allows the engine to start but it will run very rough until this wire is disconnected.

So should I just buy a new solenoid or is there a more efficient and easier way of wirining things up?

Sorry about the horrible diagram but it gives a rough idea of what's happening.

[Blknight.aus]

that makes no sense.... I can see why they were trying to do but the big question is why?

the normal wiring for your setup should be one big wire from the battery to the starter solenoid and one small wire from the key to the small tab on the solenoid. one wire would also run directly from the starter to the coil and another from the coil via a ballast resistor to the aux or ignition circuit switch.

[Wolfman_TWP]

I made up a diagram, of how it should be (Sorry, this is a moded LR diagram). The wires that I bridged in the diagram (In Red) should go straight to the Holden starter motor (As Blknight.aus said), and the wire where I have the blue X, should goto the solenoid tab on the Holden starter motor. (The white/red one.. White with Red Stripe)

Note that all the 'N' wires (Brown ones) need to be connected directly to the battery, else other stuff will not work.. (Such as battery charging etc).

Hope this helps..

Wolf

[Wolfman_TWP]

Please delete this one... Thanks

[reubsrover]

Thanks to Dave, great info enough to get the problem cleared, and thanks Wolf, you confirmed that my wiring is according to how things should be. The Landy starts with the key again and only one solenoid is in use. ;)