Seriously considering getting a P38A [Archive] - Australian Land Rover Owners

Ranga

20th March 2011, 07:37 PM

I've been on the lookout for a replacement for the wife's Suzuki Vitara for a while now. I can't convince her to keep my second Defender, so it's gotta go :(

I originally thought a Disco TDi or TD5 would be the best option, and have been looking ever since. Yet to find one I'd pay what they're asking.

Anyway, due to recent threads here about the good value to be had in P38A models, I've been dong a bit of looking and thinking, and it does seem you can get a lot of car for the money.

Now, being fairly new to Landies (onto my second Defender after about 18 months), I don't have much of an eye for them, nor do I have any mechanical skills worth mentioning. Similarly, I don't have the biggest budget in the world.

Given this, I'm worried about the reliability and fuel econonmy as the 2 biggest issues.

The fuel economy I've almost come to terms with. In all honesty, the little Vitara is lucky to get 10-11L/km, so if P38As max out at about 16L, and can be driven to about 12-13L, I can live with that. Combined with the beautiful ride and interior, I think I'd be happy.

Ultimately, the biggest concern is reliability and repair costs. All cars have problems, and all cars cost money. However, I'm after opinions about service and repair costs. I'm lucky to live 5 minutes from MR, so am comfortable with the quality of repairs, I just don't know about the costs.

So, I thought I'd start with you lot, biased as you may be :p

Any suggestions/recommendations/opinions/random thoughts or otherwise would be most appreciated.

bee utey

20th March 2011, 07:44 PM

You're a loonie!:lol2::lol2::lol2:

ozscott

20th March 2011, 08:14 PM

...

Anyway, due to recent threads here about the good value to be had in P38A models, I've been dong a bit of looking and thinking, and it does seem you can get a lot of car for the money.

... nor do I have any mechanical skills worth mentioning. Similarly, I don't have the biggest budget in the world.

...
Ultimately, the biggest concern is reliability and repair costs... I'm lucky to live 5 minutes from MR, so am comfortable with the quality of repairs, I just don't know about the costs.

....

You are indeed mad mate. All I can say is that you are very well placed being so close to MR.

If you would like a great drive, and a hell of a lot less to go wrong and a more resolved vehicle, go and buy a V8 Disco II, with leather interior.

P38A's are, as a general rule, for those who are happy to spend the dosh on running them (repairs - contunuing niggles usually) because they love them (the look, feel and poshness say) and those who are mechanically minded and its not their primary drive car.

Cheers

Cheers

Ranga

20th March 2011, 08:25 PM

hmmm... glad I asked here first! :eek:

Think I'll just keep looking for a diesel Disco ;)

RR P38

20th March 2011, 08:39 PM

Reliability has not ever been an issue in 10 years for my P38.
The only time it has stopped/didnt go was when the Mrs left the lights on and killed the battery.
Yes things do wear out and you must stay on top of it or things get out of hand.
Parts are expensive for sure.
Fuel economy if you can get an early P38 under 20L/100km round town tell me how PLS.
Country driving they are good at 12.5-13.5L/100km for me no matter what im doing with it.
If you cant afford to spend at least $1000 a year on it maintenance wise stay away from them.
But if you have one you will love it i assure you.
I bought a TD5 with leather ACE and all the fruit and i sold it after 3 months and kept the P38.
I do like the new diesel RR and the TDV6 though and will possibly move onto one of these soon.:D

wayneg

20th March 2011, 09:03 PM

Reliability is not an issue, maintenance is. Unless you can afford for someone else to do the work or DIY look elsewhere. Parts are reasonably cheap from the UK for any PLANNED jobs. Buy one that has not been looked after and you will regret it unless you plan for the overdue repair bills
12 to 13 litres per 100k is only achievable on a run, look more at 15 to 16

My next car, another P38.
Best leave them to the enthusiasts unless you want to become one

Keithy P38

21st March 2011, 06:26 AM

I'm with the P38 lads (being one myself)! I've been a very satisfied P38 owner for nearly 2yrs now. I even lend mine to the old's when i'm out at work! I have a faultmate and when purchased I cleared my fault codes and have had none since.

Change the oil, plugs, filters and give it a wash like any other car - it's just the same! I have not come across any job that i'm not willing to tackle so far (except auto tranny fluid change - I hate doing them). I've flushed the radiator twice, replaced a water pump and got a nice set of muddies - exact same as any other car on the road! No extra expense!

I hope you get one, they are really great to drive and very capable off road in standard form. Mine's currently getting decked out to do Cape York, and i've done heaps of long remote trips in mine so far! Don't believe the comments about poor reliability, keep it serviced and you'll be rewarded.

Cheers
Keithy

RR P38

21st March 2011, 07:15 AM

P38s seem to be like old Jaguars. They are one of the most abused cars on the road (by people that dont/cant be bothered maintaining them).
Sure stuff goes wrong around the car but when you look at how complex they are and the level of spec you would expect stuff to go wrong with them window motors, sunroof, EAS, blend motors, central locking etc. None of these things will stop it though.
Yes i agree off road they seem pretty good i have only been bogged one time in 10yrs.
Hey Keithy i see you are in Townsville a trip to the cape is a walk up the rd for you.
I drove up to Cooktown ish in June from Sydney via Emergen crk and home 10 days not a bad run and the P38 lapped it up.

Keithy P38

21st March 2011, 02:41 PM

That's a good drive - mine recently did melbourne to townsville in 5 days also!! I didnt have the codes for my faultmate on me so i winged it and the only drama I had was alternator brushes died in Canberra (could have happened to anyone, just happened to me)!!

33chinacars

21st March 2011, 03:29 PM

Hi Ranga Get A R.R. P38 You wont be disappointed. After 12 months ownership Love mine only a few minor issues with air suspension. Beautiful drive, Ample power [except for a power freek like me] lots of room.

Don't be put off by all the naysayers

Althou after driving a L322 I may be in the market for one of those.

Gary

PeterAllen

21st March 2011, 04:06 PM

Hi Ranga,
For the money you outlay for a used P38 I believe its good value.
I bought mine for less than $7K and although it had done 200,000Klm, I have had it for two years now and added 60,000 Klms and have only a few minor things needed to be attended to.
I also have a RR classic which I have had for twenty years and although I will never part with it must say I never miss the chance to hop in the p38.
They are a great ride and if you get a well looked after one for the right money you will be laughing......well most the time.

glenhendry

24th March 2011, 04:41 PM

Totally agree. My next car: P38A.

Buy one for a pittance, and keep a few dollars away for parts that are a little more than those for a commodore (ok, a fair bit more).

But you must be willing to pay for labour for fixes, or open the bonnet yourself. I have had much pleasure maintaining mine and learning about it, and I have already converted many of my friends from jap 4wds. They can spend twice as much and get half the comfort and half the capability.

RR P38

24th March 2011, 06:16 PM

Not a bad rig this one;

2001 Land Rover Range Rover HSE Black 4sp A Wagon (eBay item 350449316798 end time 20-Apr-11 19:53:21 AEST) : Cars, Bikes, Boats (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/2001-Land-Rover-Range-Rover-HSE-Black-4sp-Wagon-/350449316798?pt=AU_Cars&hash=item51986833be)

I had a drive of it.
Seems to have good history.

Scouse

24th March 2011, 07:51 PM

Ranga

24th March 2011, 10:17 PM

Does duel fuel for these mean the LPG tank sits in the cargo area, or under the car?

33chinacars

24th March 2011, 11:49 PM

When LPG is fitted to a P38 a dounut tanks is usually fitted where the spare wheel goes. You then have work out what to do with spare wheel. Some have mounted then standing up in cargo area, others have fitted a carrier to rear bumper bar. Or you can just carry a can of goo if your game.

Search this forum for pictures of alternatives

Gary

bee utey

25th March 2011, 07:21 AM

RR P38

25th March 2011, 10:41 AM

Yes the thought of the donut in the spare tyre slot puts me off.
I quiet like storing a shovel and some tools recovery gear etc in there.

That RR had gas injection fitted in 08, it has a pretty impressive bunch of receipts for all the work done on it since it was new.

A spare in the cargo are takes up a lot of room.

redandy3575

25th March 2011, 11:50 AM

Donut tank is the main way of doing the P38, then you should have (as a minimum) a bracket fixed under the hatch to screw your tyre to for travelling about.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

Instead of a donut you can cut/tub the spare wheel well to take a cylinder tank but this is more work for little gain over a large (72 lt) donut tank.

However you need to budget $4K for an injection system otherwise you will be entering backfire territory.

Where did you get the cargo barrier?? i want one.....

I'm still trying to convince myself about going LPG. But with the fact that finding another spot for the spare, let alone how gooda job the LPG Mechanics will do in installing the system is whats concerning me. Also, i'm in 2 minds about the seperate ECU system to fool the vehicle into thinking it's still running on petrol that makes it sound a bit tacky.. Has anyone had issues with LPG at all???

bee utey

25th March 2011, 01:52 PM

Where did you get the cargo barrier?? i want one.....

Sorry Milfords used to make them but aren't interested in doing any more. Tried that, no success.

klappers

31st March 2011, 04:19 PM

So is there actually anything that really goes wrong with these cars or is it more a case of servicing?

RR P38

31st March 2011, 07:28 PM

I was just waiting for this question.....
Yep stuff goes wrong all the time.
The P38 is a very complex bit of kit.It has electric everything.
Electronics go wrong, especially on Land Rovers.

But take a look at all the problems on this site relating to say TD5s terrific engine, but a disaster is all ways just around the corner in my opinion.
There aint much room in a Disco.

I have never had a concern about the drive line in my P38 and in 10 yrs and 180k km of ownership nothing has ever stopped my RR.
What have i replaced? all discs twice, just rebuilt the brake modulator, just replaced the radiator, just replaced the brake booster pump.
5 yrs ago replaced the blend motors.
Replaced all EAS air bags.
I replaced the all the bearings in the rear diff 2yrs ago.
Head liner is sagging. sunroof is broke. Remote central locking is bung.

I love this thing, just did a trip to the Zigzag trck on the week end never got stuck any place (had the TC singing)
These things are like a dog get them wet and dirty and they shake them selves clean and get you home in comfort.
They are not powerfull use a lot of fuel but are a well rounded rig.

If i was sensible,boring and bland i would buy a Tojo!

parasnoop67

31st March 2011, 07:56 PM

I've had mine 4 years and 80000k's and I've always got there and back without too many problems. When first bought (163000k's ) it needed air bags , tyres,disc pads and I also fitted a manual air recovery system from the Air Bag Man which I would consider almost compolsory on a p38. The top radiator tank had a small leaky crack and the temp guage tended to climb on long hills. A new top tank and a good clean out fixed both issues.
Later the water pump bearing failed and caused a blown head gasget, luckily in the driveway. Since that was repaired, it hasnt missed a beat. Has had disc pads again recently and now have two sets of wheels both with newish tyres with 245 #75 good year wrangler mtr's for bush use.
Had minor niggles with air suspension, largely caused by an out of wack height sensor. Pump and valve block have been gone through. Haven't had any faults in the last 6 months and now I just get in and enjoy.
Oil and filters get changed at 5000k's and every thing is checked regularely.
Just a matter of learning how to fix a few things and do your own service to have a good run. Particular attention to the whole cooling system as some motors have failed due to overheating. Also no water crossings more than about 900mm.(without raised air intake) as some have drowned.

Keithy P38

31st March 2011, 08:28 PM

Also no water crossings more than about 900mm.(without raised air intake) as some have drowned.

I'll second that!!

klappers

4th April 2011, 02:31 PM

I'll second that!!

a little bit better then most i WOULD say:wasntme:

klappers

4th April 2011, 02:37 PM

Okay so next question is:

Is the THOR motor worth an extra 6 grand?????

BOSCH seems to be the go, but did that alone make the cars much more reliable??

Keithy P38

4th April 2011, 05:39 PM

Thats a big question! I've never driven a GEMS P38, I have owned 2 Thor ones...

I picked them both up for 15k (each), both in excellent condition, but funnily enough the "better" one was newer, with much less k's and from a dealer... You can knock a dealer down on price much easier by picking on the bad points of the car. Both are HSE's and lovely cream leather!

The difference between Thor and GEMS is very debateable... Look at all the late Classic's getting around with them, and early Disco's. They are most still going, so I wouldn't imagine GEMS would be nasty, merely considered "less reliable".

If it came down to the cheaper one, i'd be buying a GEMS. Same if I had an engine conversion in mind!

Cheers
Keithy

rovercare

4th April 2011, 05:56 PM

The difference between Thor and GEMS is very debateable... Look at all the late Classic's getting around with them, and early Disco's. They are most still going, so I wouldn't imagine GEMS would be nasty, merely considered "less reliable".
Cheers
Keithy

GEMS was only on the P38, RR classic and Disco used 14CUX, far more primitive without ignition control and knock retard

rovercare

4th April 2011, 06:00 PM

Hoges

4th April 2011, 08:19 PM

Okay so next question is:

Is the THOR motor worth an extra 6 grand?????

BOSCH seems to be the go, but did that alone make the cars much more reliable??

The Bosch upgrade was far more than just the top end of the engine...the crankshaft sensor is a very different design from the GEMS and got rid of the problem of the sensor bits being caught in the ring gear. The number of ignition coils reduced from 4 to 2 (also much cheaper). The transmission was upgraded to the HP24 (takes up to 400hp). The ABS modulator likewise was upgraded and the front diff was improved (4 pin). Traction control extended to all 4 wheels (previously 2)...

There are probably other bits and pieces I've missed out on...but they seem to be the main ones.
Get the latest model you can afford...

klappers

4th April 2011, 08:19 PM

I've only ever owned a GEMS P38, a 95 4L SE, which a borrowed the other day of the current owner, to take measurements for an LS1 conversion, 379K and still going strong, well the headgaskets are leaking, but have been for the past 30K and it'll just get driven till death then a reco long fitted

I'll post a pic of proof when I get my laptop back from the puta aids doctor:D

so what is the advantage of the thor? Bosch gear with a new, better manifold... Seems to be that the thor stuff has about a 5-6k expense put on it for one year... the 4L suffers from slipped liners though yeah?

Hoges

4th April 2011, 08:39 PM

Hi Klappers, seems we both posted at 9.19pm... you may have missed my comments on Pge 3 FWIW :angel:

klappers

5th April 2011, 12:05 PM

Hi Klappers, seems we both posted at 9.19pm... you may have missed my comments on Pge 3 FWIW :angel:

Cheers for that mate. That was more the information that I was looking for!!! Thank you very much. I knew that there had to be more to it than a simple change over of manifold and injection...

4 pin diff sounds great... That would make it MUCH stronger and what @$@*()$@^ Land Rover should have done in the first place with all of their diffs!

Keithy P38

5th April 2011, 05:57 PM

My bad on the GEMS stuff in the Classic and Disco - was under the impression they were too!

The Bosch equipped P38's also have leather armrests (compared to plastic), updated stereo system too! May have been a minor change to the seat stitching too but i'm not that clued up!

Cheers
Keithy

glenhendry

6th April 2011, 06:09 AM

Sounds like we need a sticky on this. The changes during BMW ownership when THORs arrived appear more than just the new donk. Perhaps I can make a start here and you cleverer chaps can add to the list and a moderator can consider it as a sticky?

If moderators dont agree that it would be useful for a sticky here, then please update my mistakes anyway (and add to it) and I will weld it into Wikipedia.

Changes for post-99 P38As:
- THOR engine with Bosch electrics (change from Lucas)
- BMW 7 series wiring harnesses
- 4 pin front diff (up from 2)
- Front traction control (up from only rear)
- Leather armrests? (up from plastic)
- 7 seam stitched seat bases
- ECU moves to aft of EAS compressor rather than aft of main battery
- Clear turn signals
- Upgraded sound system (300w, 12 speakers)?
- Removal of transmission dipstick
- Leather door arm rests

Differences in Australian P38As to other countries???:
- Single exhaust systems, not dual

Scouse

6th April 2011, 07:25 AM

- Clear turn signals
They came with the 2000 model, not the 1999.

p38arover

6th April 2011, 08:10 AM

When did the blacked out headlights arrive? With the clear turn signals?

Scouse

6th April 2011, 08:13 AM

Yes, same time (from YA430702 to be exact).

Scouse

6th April 2011, 08:16 AM

The tailgate release button also changed to the chrome type with the 2000MY.

p38arover

6th April 2011, 08:18 AM

Interior door releases also chromed on Thor - maybe from the VIN you quoted, Scouse.

Scouse

6th April 2011, 08:43 AM

No, I thought the same but they appear to have come in mid 1998MY.

The parts list doesn't say they changed to chrome but they did change at WA392896 & ran through to the end with no further changes.

wayneg

6th April 2011, 03:44 PM

DT-P38

6th April 2011, 08:07 PM

This is as great idea, but there is little hope anyone could easily find it in the future buried within the title "seriously considering..."

Scouse

7th April 2011, 10:34 AM

The lights in the bumper also changed. Not sure if this was a customer choice or region. The fog lamps could now be driving / spot lamps. Strangely I have a fog on the N/S and a driving on the O/S. Have been on the lookout for a Spot lens for the N/SAll Australian cars (and ROW as fas as I know) had fog lights only.

Later cars had a clearer lens but they're still fog lights.