D2 TD5 timing chain alignment ?

[Rosscoe68]

finally put the head back on and lined up the timing chain 2 dark links with the tdc marker in the camshaft. turned engine over by hand and when it came back to tdc, the dark chains arent lined up anymore. my question is when the head is off and the timing chain and cam gear are sitting in the guides. can the chain slip on the bottom gear a link or 2 ? thus what i though was tdc on the bottom gear was actually out when i took up all the slack turning it over by hand.

i am about to pull the sump to check the oil pump bolt while it is all in a state of not going anyhow. will check it all then. but i am hoping it is as simple as this.

[awabbit6]

I wondered about that too when I reconditioned my head.
You'll see when the sump is off that the timing cover has a guide cast in it that prevents the chain from dropping off the bottom sprocket.

[mattg]

HI Rosscoe

Sorry can't help with the TD5 but my experience with other petrol timing pelts and chains is that it can take a few turns of the engine for the marks to line up with the chain and timing marks. I havn't done a TD5 but are there marks on the cam wheel the you can line up and the check the bottom mark on the crank shaft to make sure it is all lined up, ignoring the marks on the chain as they have now been rotated off the exact mark.

Just a thought. and I stand to be corrected on this.

I remember on the Datsun 1600 we used to make a wooden block to jam the in place to hold the chain on the crank end of the show.

How long did it take you to put take the head off and on again?

I may have missed it else where but why did you take it off in the fist place?

[awabbit6]

I remember on the Datsun 1600 we used to make a wooden block to jam the in place to hold the chain on the crank end of the show.



The block of wood that is wedged between the chain guides on a Datto OHC engine isn't needed on the Td5. That is what had me concerned when I pulled my Td5 head off.

I still use the same block of wood that I made 20 years ago when I pull my Datto head ... :)

[Rosscoe68]

yeah, turned it over a few times by hand as i thought the same thing, might take a few to line up, but no it keeps not lining up the same amount of links out each turn. i too thought there was a guide down below to prevent this from happening, i just can't see how it can be out.
checked the crank was lined up before i timed the head when it was put back on. head had a dowel in the cam to stop it in the correct spot. the chain had the 2 dark links lined up with the line in the gear and the tdc dowel in the cam. all good
turned it over by hand and its out :(
all not good

[woko]

If you keep turning it will eventually line up. It takes heaps of revolutions. If you can fit the crank and cam timing pins at the same time, it will be timed correctly.

[strangy]

Remeber camshaft sprocket is different size to crankshaft sprocket. Crankshaft has to turn 720 degrees for camshaft 360 degrees. 2 to 1

Contrary to other posts the chain can move on the crankshaft sprocket.
The dark links are your maintenance guide not mandatory for engine function.
IF you have correctly locked and aligned the crankshaft and camshaft the timing will be right regardless of the chain links. Though having the guide links in the correct place may make it easier for future mechanics if not you.

cheers

[alien]

If you keep turning it will eventually line up. It takes heaps of revolutions. If you can fit the crank and cam timing pins at the same time, it will be timed correctly.


Remeber camshaft sprocket is different size to crankshaft sprocket. Crankshaft has to turn 720 degrees for camshaft 360 degrees. 2 to 1

Contrary to other posts the chain can move on the crankshaft sprocket.
The dark links are your maintenance guide not mandatory for engine function.
IF you have correctly locked and aligned the crankshaft and camshaft the timing will be right regardless of the chain links. Though having the guide links in the correct place may make it easier for future mechanics if not you.

cheers

I agree with the above.
The crank locking pin goes in the bottom of the bell housing.
I use an air fitting drilled out to the right size.
Screw in and fitt the drill bit shank first.

I rotate the motor till the crank pin "falls" in and then check the one on the cam.
A lot of adjustment so worth the time to get right.
After tightening all 3 bolts undo 1 at a time to loctite.

[Rosscoe68]

so am i correct in assuming there is only 1 spot in the inspection hole for the crank locking pin to go into, so if the locking pin goes in and the can locking pin is lined up, even if the dark links aren't lined up i am ok ???

if so, i can move the chain when i drop the sump in the next step to check the oil pump bolt. but would like to get the car going first though so i can put it on the concrete to jack it up and drop the sump.

[alien]

so am i correct in assuming there is only 1 spot in the inspection hole for the crank locking pin to go into, so if the locking pin goes in and the can locking pin is lined up, even if the dark links aren't lined up i am ok ???

if so, i can move the chain when i drop the sump in the next step to check the oil pump bolt. but would like to get the car going first though so i can put it on the concrete to jack it up and drop the sump.

If the crank and cam pins go in when the motor is turn in direction of rotation all is good.
The single and double link are for the base set up to get things close(pre counted links).
I think there is only one slot for the crank pin but maybe check with JC or BN to confirm.

[Rosscoe68]

ok, the easiest option for me is to drop the cam gear and spin it in the chain to line up, rather than try and get the crank gear lined up again on the chain.

must be a fair amount of valve clearance, cos its quite a few teeth out at the camgear end, and still turns over by hand with nothing hitting.
i am used to twincam Fiat mtors, if you are out 2 or 3 teeth on a timing belt, which are a lot smaller teeth, you end up putting valve heads into the pistons.
thats probly why i am paranoid about turning it over by hand to make sure nothing binds before i try and run it up.

[alien]

ok, the easiest option for me is to drop the cam gear and spin it in the chain to line up, rather than try and get the crank gear lined up again on the chain.

must be a fair amount of valve clearance, cos its quite a few teeth out at the camgear end, and still turns over by hand with nothing hitting.
i am used to twincam Fiat mtors, if you are out 2 or 3 teeth on a timing belt, which are a lot smaller teeth, you end up putting valve heads into the pistons.
thats probly why i am paranoid about turning it over by hand to make sure nothing binds before i try and run it up.
So are your pins lining up or not?:confused:
Refer to post 7 by strangy.
The 2 links should only line up if the crank one is on the corect tooth.

[Rosscoe68]

so no, mine aren't lining up. when the crank pin is in the cam is about 20 degrees out.
so the 2 dark links are off and the pin lockout is also off.
my bet is due to the chain coming loose down below when i had the head off, therefore even though everything was pin locked in place, the chain was loose due to no tensioner and not correct.
will fix it in the morning and update.

anyone know what size the crank nut is. 22 or 23 mm ?
will get correct long ring spanner, instead of big and awkward shifter to turn engine over by hand until i am confident it is right tio crank by starter power.

[Rosscoe68]

please delete, double post

[Rosscoe68]

soooo
for those that are interested
20 crankshaft revolutions before the timing chain dark markers will line up again.
gues that makes sense as it is a 5cyl 4 stroke.
oh and it IS and WAS all lined up, i just wasn't patient enough turning it over by hand to double check it, didnt realise i needed to turn it that many times :)

oh, and the crank bolt is 24 mm

[alien]

Doubled on me too;)

[alien]

soooo
for those that are interested
20 crankshaft revolutions before the timing chain dark markers will line up again.
gues that makes sense as it is a 5cyl 4 stroke.
oh and it IS and WAS all lined up, i just wasn't patient enough turning it over by hand to double check it, didnt realise i needed to turn it that many times :)

oh, and the crank bolt is 24 mm
At least you know the chain didn't fall of the lower gear:)
And the crank and cam pins slip in still?
Is it still about 20deg. out?
Fair amount of adjustment on the 3 bolts;)

[Rosscoe68]

no, it all lined up perfectly, both pins slip in and the dark links are where they aught to be
:)
tomorrow will try and fire it up and hope it doesn't go bang :)

[Rosscoe68]

well it ran
but not for very long. noticed the fuel pump was running flat out. shut her down and checked the oil level and sure enough, was way above full and smells of diesel :(
pull cam cover off and start her and diesel ****ing out of no 3 injector.
pulled the injector out and the o-ring was on the second groove instead of the first, my bad. but at least i found it now instead of half way down the road when it would have started running on with so much diesel in the the sump. dropped the oil and was about 20 odd litres at least came out including oil and diesel.
lucky i used cheap oil to run it in on :)

[Rosscoe68]

so can anyone tell me if the fuel pump should be an audible high pitched whine constantly running ? my other TD5 only makes a sound like that when its out of fuel and the pump is sucking air, but its got a loud exhaust on it, so maybe i just don't hear the normal running of the pump over the exhaust on it.
don't recall it being like that before head replacement on this one with stock exhaust, however maybe i am now just a bit paranoid ?

[alien]

Good pick up on the injector.
Give the pump a chance to "blead"(for want of a better term;)) the system.
It pushs fuel from the tank to the filter-> motor->filter->motor so may be some air in the lines.

[Rosscoe68]

well took it for a decent run today, drove to work ( 15 mins down the perth hills) no probs, runs sweet. at work checked oil and coolant levels all good.
drove up this arvo and temp was good all the way up the hill sitting on 88-89 via nanocom.
but as i pulled into driveway, went up to 95 before i shut her down.
checked coolant and its still high in the tank, although the top radiator hose was rock hard.
do i need take the head off again :(
or maybe the thermostat. it is new, but was replaced before i worked out the head gasket was blown.

[strangy]

well took it for a decent run today, drove to work ( 15 mins down the perth hills) no probs, runs sweet. at work checked oil and coolant levels all good.
drove up this arvo and temp was good all the way up the hill sitting on 88-89 via nanocom.
but as i pulled into driveway, went up to 95 before i shut her down.
checked coolant and its still high in the tank, although the top radiator hose was rock hard.
do i need take the head off again :(
or maybe the thermostat. it is new, but was replaced before i worked out the head gasket was blown.


Those numbers are fine 95 isnt hot.
Without checking the RAVE manual the TD5 in the D2 has a cap pressure of 22 or 24 psi, so if you have filled the coolant level high you wont get to squeeze the hose much before you compress the small amount of air in the header and obviously will need to exceed the cap presure to vent it overboard. What other things a re leading you to think it has to come off again?

cheers

[Psimpson7]

drove up this arvo and temp was good all the way up the hill sitting on 88-89 via nanocom.
but as i pulled into driveway, went up to 95 before i shut her down.
checked coolant and its still high in the tank, although the top radiator hose was rock hard.
.

No! As Strangy has said above that should be fine. The temp will go up even more with heat soak once the car is off.

It's obviously going to go up when you stop, much reduced air flow, and slower water circulation will be two reasons.

The hose will be rock hard. Thats fine. If its not blowing coolant out stop worrying! Just use it! will be fine

Cheers
Pete

[Rosscoe68]

only concern is that i have2 D2 td5's and they run totally different temps (both have nanocoms for temp monitoring) is what worries me.
1 i have had for a few years runs hotter climbing the perth hills(92-94 sometimes even higher), but settles as soon as i get on the flat, and idles no higher than 90-91.
new one runs cooler up the hill 88-89 but get hotter at idle ( 95 )
will continue to drive it for a few more days and see how it goes.
want to drop the oil and pan and check oil pump bolt next so dont wnat to drive it too much, but dont want to do oil change with new good oil and find i need to dismantle it all again and waste $100 of oil

[Rosscoe68]

never even thought to consider the viscous fan.

[Rosscoe68]

oil pump bolt done today and wasnt very tight. so lucky i checked :)

[Blknight.aus]

viscous fans a good start but dont forger to check for build up between the condensor, the intercooler and the radiator.

The reason the chain takes so many turns to line up again is beacause its setup as "walking link" on both the cam and the crank gears. This helps to distribute the wear evenly on all the teeth and links, If it was "static link" the chain and gears would pattern wear into each other and then correct alignment and rotation would become a problem on reassembly after maintenance and the chain would "spot" wear faster.

yep some pumps are noisey and others arent, epsecially the after market ones but I would suggest pulling the noisey one and cleaning out its "swirl pot" and strainer.

[Rosscoe68]

fuel pump seems to have quietened down, must have been air bleeding through.
radiator has been removed and flushed, checked. intercooler also flushed. cleaned the auto cooler and aircon cooler out as much as i could while it was apart.