Members Opinion - Leaks in my new 110

[Phoenix12]

Well I know that the old ones leak ;), but should I accept it in a BRAND NEW 110 ?!

My old 110 leaked and I accepted it, but theres just something not right about seeing a brand new one leak. (down onto the left front floor matt) I can even trace the water lines....

Sure it was a pretty big storm, and no sign of water on the right side...... but should I go to the dealer for a warranty Inspection or do I just suck it up.........

Thoughts chaps...........

[one_iota]

Fixing leaks is a warranty item. I had one and it was fixed. No leaks since (2 years).

Add it to your hopefully short list.:)

[kenleyfred]

Good luck. I'm getting to the end of warranty and am nervous. Mine still leaks like a sieve. What's worse is it's the SVX so I have wet carpets to contend with. All door seals have been replaced twice.
I actually think it leaks more standing still. After a heavy rain the footwell are full of water, and that's just eked in the driveway.

[Iain_B]

I've parked mine outside in the rain as much as possible to see if it leaks - so far nothing. In regards your question, I would be taking it back under warranty again and again until they fix all the leaks - and asking for an extension to the warranty if they did not fix it in the first place. After there was nothing in Owners Manual that says that you can't go out in the rain.

[87County]

there's a whole document about it here:

Links and Downloads Manager - Australian Land Rover Owners (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=3&id=81)

might help a do-it-yourselfer :), or take it with you - the dealer might not have seen it.....

[BilboBoggles]

My puma has been in 7-8 times and been completely disassembled from the bulkhead upwards twice now. (Each time it's been off the road for 3-4 weeks.) Each time it's come back with exactly the same leaks, and gobs more black sealant spread over everything. IT leaks through the bulkhead to windscreen seal, the bolts that hold the hinge onto the wind screen and through the drivers side roof. I switched dealers after the first 2 years to see if another dealer would be better, it's in for it's third strip down now...

I'm mostly concerned about the bulkhead rusting. It's started leaking puddles of rusty water onto the floor mats...

[BilboBoggles]

For all those who say their PUMA's don't leak, are you sure? If you lift the rubber floor matting and look at the bulkhead under the mat, is it wet? I bet it will be, all of the ones I've seen have been. I reckon their leaking silently through behind the matting, rotting out your bulkhead.

[newhue]

Mine initially had water falls on both side of the footwells. LR had a look under warranty and have stopped it on the passenger side, and slowed it significantly on the drivers. However after reasonably good rain I get the odd drop on either foot depending on which way I'm cornering.
If I run my hands under some of the mounding under the dash I find sodded sound or heat proofing. Which worries me a bit, having wet material against steel is a sure headache in the future.

I take photos and keep some notes to help LR find the source hopefully.

[jc109]

I've got a sure-fix for you: move to Perth. Not much chance of any leaks over here.

[one_iota]

For all those who say their PUMA's don't leak, are you sure? If you lift the rubber floor matting and look at the bulkhead under the mat, is it wet? I bet it will be, all of the ones I've seen have been. I reckon their leaking silently through behind the matting, rotting out your bulkhead.

Lifting the mats is the first thing I do after heavy rain...dry as.

So maybe mine is the only one that doesn't leak. :p

Worth pointing out that although the mechanicals are different in the Puma the housing is the same as it ever was...swiss cheese.

[BilboBoggles]

Agreed the shell is very similar to previous 110's but I'd argue that there were some cost cutting done on the PUMA, for example my TD5 has large amounts of seam sealer applied to the seams throughout the body, including the seat box. This sealer is under the paint so was done as part of the manufacture process.

The PUMA has none at all. And daylight visible in places through the seams.

The TD5 has black underseal applied underneath the body, PUMA has none.

Congratulations on the leak free Defender - just goes to show there is hope!

[one_iota]

Agreed the shell is very similar to previous 110's but I'd argue that there were some cost cutting done on the PUMA, for example my TD5 has large amounts of seam sealer applied to the seams throughout the body, including the seat box. This sealer is under the paint so was done as part of the manufacture process.

The PUMA has none at all. And daylight visible in places through the seams.

The TD5 has black underseal applied underneath the body, PUMA has none.

Congratulations on the leak free Defender - just goes to show there is hope!

I don't mean to be oppositional however my Puma has plenty of seam sealer so much so that there is a big blob of it on the seatbox where the skilled factory worker dropped a dollop...it was then sprayed over by an equally caring worker in the paint section. :p;)

You are right about the underseal.

[BilboBoggles]

That's very interesting - what year is your's? Mine is a MY09 made in aug 2008, I'd heard they improved the sealing on the later ones, so perhaps they reinstated the seam sealing guy on the production line. (Or perhaps he was taking a smoko when they did mine!)

[one_iota]

Mine's MY09 built just before yours (May).

Maybe that dollop in mine was the seam sealer meant for yours. They ration it: a bit like loktite.

[firsttimedefender]

I've had mine looked at twice from new over two services. Dealer thinks is bulkhead bolts but is most definitely the 'spongey' seal between windscreen and bulkhead. Worst is the soft drizzly rain over a period, it soaks in as its drips off the windscreen channel. Lucky I have the ruber floor mats and I collect them and throw the water out; concerns over rusting behind the dash though.
Dealer tests by blasting with a high-pressure hose and says no leak found, but this test is useless as it doesn't replicate sitting in the rain. The 'seal' has gaps and seems to absorb the water. I am going in this service armed with photos and demand a fix. I am convinced the material used for the seal is wrong - should be some kind of silicon or solid rubber. What do you think?

[alittlebitconcerned]

Just got mine back after being off the road for about three weeks (again) for water ingress problems fixed under warranty. One week later after rain I find I now have more leaks than it had before it went in. Not only did it come back with more leaks, it came back with a scratched roof, paint drip lines on the roof from overspray, lumpy paint caused by spraying over excess putty that was not removed, the feet of my roof rack embedded into the roof gutter putty (caused by putting the rack back on before the putty could dry), a rear seat that no longer locks into upright seating position, a cargo barrier that was reinstalled with only one loosely fastened bolt, a quick release fire blanket torn from the cargo barrier (now useless), and a torn rear cargo mat. In total there has been about 7 or 8 stabs at getting the water ingress problem right since I have owned this car.

With hope fading that I have spent my hard earned money wisely, I remain astounded and disappointed with my LR experience.

[BilboBoggles]

I think the secret to happy and dry Defender ownership, is either pure luck that you get one that does not leak, or to invest in a car port to keep it out of the rain.

[aew849]

I have had a new TDi 110, a new Td5 110 and a once owned Td5 130....all have leaked or still leak like a governments promise.

The only Land Rover I have owned, that was dry as a bone (handy as I was in UK), was a 1981 Series III SWB, after I had fitted a canvas roof kit. No condensation either! Even helped with sound proofing...a bit.

So the solution is there, go canvas!! :D:D

aew849

[The ho har's]

I have had a new TDi 110, a new Td5 110 and a once owned Td5 130....all have leaked or still leak like a governments promise.

The only Land Rover I have owned, that was dry as a bone (handy as I was in UK), was a 1981 Series III SWB, after I had fitted a canvas roof kit. No condensation either! Even helped with sound proofing...a bit.

So the solution is there, go canvas!! :D:D

aew849

No disagree here my '78 SIII leaks all over my foot when in heavy rain, it has a canvas roof, roof doesn't leak though;) as does our 130 Td5, something with the right hand side windscreen I suspect :)


Orrr perhaps it is just a series/defender thing that will never be fixed:confused::o

Mrs hh:angel:

[Phoenix12]

Well the 110 is in tomorrow for a leak test......... I live in Newcastle - The rain hasnt been torrential of late but it still finds its way in........ I must say it doesnt let a lot of water in, (like some others are saying :eek:), but still. Its 3000km old and surely its now or never !!

Thanks to all for the input

[BilboBoggles]

Well, I got my Fender back today. Over the last couple of days i'd planned to sell it, and had started putting together the advert. BUT I've finally found a committed and interested dealer, who has exceeded my expectations, and actually got the vehicle fixed properly. In fact they fond and fixed things I'd not even noticed. WOooHooo!... The drive home was enough to convince me .. Sod it I'll keep it.

[ozscott]

Its these sort of things that are such a disappointment to my mind in Puma. I love my D2 but its getting some higher k's on it and I am a sucker for trucks. I love the idea of a Deefer, but just cant justify a Puma given that they have really gone south with drivetrain strength, leaks and finish. There is no excuse at all for these problems.

I would go a TD5 110, but the lack of rear head rests is enough to stop me with 3 kids.

I was hoping that with the newer ones they would fix diffs once and for all, fix clutch weakness once and for all, fix leaks etc etc etc, but alas it appears not or at best VERY hit and miss as to whether you get a 'good' one - and 'good' one will still have niggles exceeding what I have had with my 95 D1 and 02 D2 - both of which I still have because they are quite trouble free.

When will LR realise that their Icon vehicle is loosing its Icon status even with people who love them?

Cheers

[rumman43]

Its these sort of things that are such a disappointment to my mind in Puma. I love my D2 but its getting some higher k's on it and I am a sucker for trucks. I love the idea of a Deefer, but just cant justify a Puma given that they have really gone south with drivetrain strength, leaks and finish. There is no excuse at all for these problems.

I would go a TD5 110, but the lack of rear head rests is enough to stop me with 3 kids.

I was hoping that with the newer ones they would fix diffs once and for all, fix clutch weakness once and for all, fix leaks etc etc etc, but alas it appears not or at best VERY hit and miss as to whether you get a 'good' one - and 'good' one will still have niggles exceeding what I have had with my 95 D1 and 02 D2 - both of which I still have because they are quite trouble free.

When will LR realise that their Icon vehicle is loosing its Icon status even with people who love them?

Cheers


hear hear..
i agree..everytime i think of spending my hard earned cash on one. you see another post of stuff going wrong..stuff that should, if built properly never get mentioned..

[TimNZ]

Oops - wrong thread :)

Cheers

[86mud]

My truck is not new - 1998 130, but ever since I bought it off the previous owner 2 years ago I have been chasing a water leak on the drivers' side. It only seem to get water in whilst driving and turning left hand corners....it pours onto my right foot!. I have downloaded the Water Ingress document and have been slowly placing silicone into suspect areas, but have yet to find the source.

It is annoying to say the least....I will find it one day...

Andrew

[Ziphajl]

My truck is not new - 1998 130, but ever since I bought it off the previous owner 2 years ago I have been chasing a water leak on the drivers' side. It only seem to get water in whilst driving and turning left hand corners....it pours onto my right foot!. I have downloaded the Water Ingress document and have been slowly placing silicone into suspect areas, but have yet to find the source.

It is annoying to say the least....I will find it one day...

Andrew

Try to put some isolation on the roof from inside, in my case condensation was the problem. Solved by glueing 10mm foam under roof metal

[PAT303]

hear hear..
i agree..everytime i think of spending my hard earned cash on one. you see another post of stuff going wrong..stuff that should, if built properly never get mentioned..

Unfortunatly it's true of most new vehicles.Manufacturers seem to spend money on flashy crap that we don't need instead of fixing things we do.Leaks,oil burning engines,failing drive shafts,grenading engines shouldn't happen today but they do everyday.I still can't wait for my X-Tech though. Pat

[Michael2]

I've had mine looked at twice from new over two services. Dealer thinks is bulkhead bolts but is most definitely the 'spongey' seal between windscreen and bulkhead. Worst is the soft drizzly rain over a period, it soaks in as its drips off the windscreen channel. Lucky I have the ruber floor mats and I collect them and throw the water out; concerns over rusting behind the dash though....

I found that the 2 bolts that hold each 'clamp' on the firewall to the windscreen were too long. As a result, they bottomed out before they clamped up, and water leaked in under the 'clamp', ran along the bolts and then down the inside of the firewall.

I removed them and noticed that the ends of the threads were damaged because of their being too long.

I placed new sealant under the 'clamps' and then bolted them up using a washer and spring washer to space the bolt back enough for it not to bottom out. Since then no water has entered from there.

[Phoenix12]

Well the 110 went in for its testing and two weeks later I had it back.

After taking my whole dash off, the panel shop found multiple entry points which required resealing. :o

I waited 2 weeks for seals to arrive from the UK but Hunter Land Rover organised a loaner vehicle for the period.:)

I had to wait for a week before the rain came once I got it back, but it has come in a vengeance !:eek: And guess what................NO LEAKS !!:D

So, so far so good. A big thanks to the guys at Hunter Land Rover for their efforts....... and hopefully the leaks stay away for good.

[Drover]

Good for you.

Alto's had had mine for 5 weeks chasing water leaks. I got it back on the tuesday before the the long weekend.

Took it camping, rain came and guess what.....:( filled up again.

[stig0000]

i think it depends how the guy puting the body together was feeling that day,,, since there still hand poprivated to gether, :D

mine only leaks some times and only standing and in light shower,, if it smashes down no leaks :eek: but oh well,,, live with it,,, never gona stop it :angel:

[slovenia]

I have 3 Land Rover S2B, td5 td4 and, in the last 25 years I have had many other models, I believe that the main reason for the leakage of water between the fire wall of glass and frame seals the wrong material, which acts like a sponge. Properly seal it in the form of a hollow rubber tube, which does not drink water. When I save my water so I cuts the sponge from the outside, adding silicone SIKA 11th FC:BigThumb:

[matthew2]

Its these sort of things that are such a disappointment to my mind in Puma. I love my D2 but its getting some higher k's on it and I am a sucker for trucks. I love the idea of a Deefer, but just cant justify a Puma given that they have really gone south with drivetrain strength, leaks and finish. There is no excuse at all for these problems.

I would go a TD5 110, but the lack of rear head rests is enough to stop me with 3 kids.

I was hoping that with the newer ones they would fix diffs once and for all, fix clutch weakness once and for all, fix leaks etc etc etc, but alas it appears not or at best VERY hit and miss as to whether you get a 'good' one - and 'good' one will still have niggles exceeding what I have had with my 95 D1 and 02 D2 - both of which I still have because they are quite trouble free.

When will LR realise that their Icon vehicle is loosing its Icon status even with people who love them?

Cheers
I agree with what you are saying ! The Defer could be the best 4WD ever made but for some reason the Landrover company are to stupid or to thick to fix these silly problems . I have a 2001 110 TD5 and its time to change her I have got 3 kids and the back seat makes me worried plus no safety features whats so ever .For the price of a new defer at about 55K I can get a new Nissan Patrol ! I should use my head and not my heart when spending that sort of money .

[Drover]

Well,

Got the PUMA back today, after another 2 weeks at the stealers. (11 weeks in total now) chasing water leaks.

As luck would have it......it has started to rain.

I have parked it out on the drive way, so by the morning I will know if this attempt was successful.

Cheers

[Drover]

Doh !

Still leaking, back to the stealers.........again............. :mad:

[kenleyfred]

Mine leaks so badly, I've removed the front carpets completely and removed all the connecting studs on the other carpets to ease removing them to dry properly after a rain. Nothing worse than a week or so after a rain and you check under the rubber mats and the carpets are soaked.
My UHF has stopped transmitting, probably from the number of dunkings it got from water pouring through the (closed) sunroof.

[Drover]

My service consultant has been excellent.

He has replaced all the seals on the air-con/vent unit to fire wall, sealed the pedal box, replaced wind screen rubber seal and numerous seals along the way.

Water ingress is now minimal, only small amount now entering after long periods of rain and now only in the front foot wells.

I have also spent many hours under neath the SVX from rear to front with a tube of sika-flex sealing everything I can find - with great success. :D

During the rain this time I found a water trail, when looking through the fuse panel, running from behind the green box, behind the dash on the firewall. The water runs down the fire wall, tracks along and then drips off the brake pedal. The passengers side is a similar story.

This puts the water leak above the bonnet line, so this is why the dealer has not been successful as he has been targeting below the bonnet.

So, now armed with this new information, we might have more success.

The quest continues..................

[Phoenix12]

Doh !

Still leaking, back to the stealers.........again............. :mad:

My 110 was out of action for 2 and a bit weeks as they had to get the new seals from the UK. The dealer I went to (Hunter Landrover) had a look (I showed them the spots I had found), and they decided to pull the whole dash off......Then replace the seals and repress the panels together at the body shop......They said the panels were not pressed properly in the factory which was allowing water to seep through the seals.

At the same time both the dealer and Landrover Australia gave me a car to drive whilst it was being fixed as well. So I was more than happy ! Although it was a jeep renegade:eek: Still, beggars cant be chosers.....

We have had some bloody good downpours here in Newcastle since the work was done and I have not had a leak since..... (That I can actually see, anyway !!).

Could the dealer / would the dealer take the dash off and have a look ? Of course they may have done that already........

I am more than happy with the dealers efforts, so Kudos to Hunter Landrover for that one anyway.......

Hope this helps :)

[Drover]

Hey Phoenix,

Yes dash has been out twice, seals replaced....

When you talk about "repressing" the panels togather, what panels are you refreing to ?

Where was your water coming from or ending up ? Mine is both front foot wells - so I am thinking it the same cause on both sides.

I think I will suggest that my Service Consultant talk to Hunter LR.

The Stealers are providing a loan car - it is a new FreeLander 2.

Cheers

[Phoenix12]

I was getting water on my rubber matts (both sides) it wasnt a lot but and when I took a good look I noticed a rusty residue where the steel bracket holds the speaker and the dash together (its beside the door hinge where it goes into the side of the dash), I also noticed water marks running down the side of the dash where the door sits against as it closes.

When I saw the rusty watery stuff - well thats when I had originally started this post..........

As for pressing the panels - all I was told was that the panels were not pressed together well in the factory, thus making the seals a bit redundent. I am not sure about what panels either but I was told it was worse on the left than the right, and I was certainly getting more water in on the left........

Give Hunter Land Rover a call on 02 4974 4222 and chat to Lee or Geoff, tell them Danny with the new Red 110 told you to call, they will know what your talking about.........

[Ziphajl]

I have found undocumented leaking place. No more leaking in footwels.
I changed windshield seal, seal between glass frame and firewall, seal under roof, ac to firewall seal and it was steel leaking.
Finally i found two leaking points, each on one side of the window frame, where alu frame sides are welded to the lower straight part, there on connection in the rain gutter there is some micro movement happening and there is where water enters and flows along firewall behind the dash and fill the footwels. Just applied some Sika 221, and for 7 months (and during harsh wint) there is no leaking. Def is finally dry ;)
If you cannot solve your leaks, you can look at this place, maybe you have the same problem.
Wish you all dry cars ;)