D3 up in flames

[LGM]

I have been debating whether to post this info as I have not been personaly involved but in the end I thought this worth sharing.

Last week I was made aware of an issue with a D3 whilst towing a boat in the mid northern region of WA. Please note the information and pictures have been made available to me by a work mate and partner of the vehicle driver who has kindly allowed me to share:

D3 travelling normally then a sudden loss of power followed by white smoke and then burning from beneath the vehicle. The people travelling in the D3 were able to detach the boat and move it away as the fire took hold. I understand that the people had very little time to gather other items and became bystanders to a spectacular fire that destroyed the D3.

The vehicle had approx 46000k on the clock, was under warranty and had been serviced as per schedule by a LR dealer in Perth.

I now watch with great interest to see how LR handle the process of investigating the incident and their follow up to the people involved.

My exploration of the Recall notices on the Govt web site indicates that some D3's had a fuel pump issue that could possibly cause a fire. No doubt this would be a point that the investigation would look at!

[klappers]

Well bugger me!

[Brick]

LGM,

Any idea if it was a diesel or petrol engine?

Cheers

[Ferret]

:eek: Spontaneous combustion of D3's have been reported before in WA - d3-boom (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/wa-aulroians-group/60581-d3-boom.html)

[pathfinder]

hmmmmmmmmmmnnn, curious indeed.......

LGM, do you know if the vehicle had been travelling through grass or spinifex ??

the heat of modern exhaust systems (catalytic converter) on dry fuel (grass, spinfex build-up caught in suspension components) is 'enough' to cause ignition.

I witnessed a similar case with a new Holden ute back in the late 80's driving across wheat stubble and leaving a trail of burning debris. Fortunately the cocky had a decent sized extinguisher and the vehicle was saved.:ohyes:

says something for 'being prepared' ??

[kentkal]

I have a brother in law who had the same problem with his. The story was that the fuel filter was installed backwards (I have no knowlage of the fuel system, only hear say). Diesel engine and same result.

[Blknight.aus]

loss of drive is the key, they blew off an auto cooler line.

[lpj]

That 1st photo looks interesting. There appears to be a pile of burning debris next to the car. What is that?

[Graeme]

Liquid all over the ground from behind the front wheel?

[roamer]

He may have been better off getting the fire extingwisher out of the boat and using that instead of the camera

[Disco_owner]

Looking at the oil spill on the ground it is apparent that may have been the catalyst.

[TerryO]

In the first photo there are two black lumps on fire away from the vehicle that the fluid has not yet reached, that looks a little bit unusual.

On grass fires caused by vehicles, several years ago in the middle of summer I was driving from Sydney to Newcastle when I saw a bloke stopped on the side of the freeway near Mount White yacking on his mobile.
He had stopped on what looked like recently mowed grass, while he was yacking his exhaust had started quite a decent sized grass fire under his car and he was totally oblivious to it. I often wondered how long he sat there with his car on fire before he realised what was going on.

Thankfully this summer apart from being wet it hasn't been that hot so the grass has not dried out here in Goulburn as otherwise we wouldn't be able to drive around the farm we live on. Right now for the first time in many years the grass is that long that it is up over the bonnet of the D1.

If a fire got started in it on a hot windy day there would be massive damage to propertys and live stock with so much fuel around.

cheers,
Terry

[bbyer]

Seeing any vehicle burn, regardless of manufacturer, is not a pleasant site.

I did however, Goggle for burning Land Cruisers and Land Rovers. I suppose that there are more Toyotas out there then Land Rovers so the fact U Tube shows more Cruisers on fire than Rovers, I should not be surprised.

I might add that the Toyota's were not all "conflict vehicles". I also ran across a particularly entertaining video of a Land Cruiser pickup cresting a dune and doing the lawn dart thing. It was particularly noteworthy for the individual who was previously standing in the box and holding on to the to headache rack, Beau Geste style. The sand about 50 feet in front seemed fairly soft though, and it was a downslope.

[XSiV]

This is a good reminder of why it is a good idea to carry a fire extinguisher or two.

[big guy]

That will not buff out either!!!

Sorry to hear about the demise though.

[klappers]

Seeing any vehicle burn, regardless of manufacturer, is not a pleasant site.

I did however, Goggle for burning Land Cruisers and Land Rovers. I suppose that there are more Toyotas out there then Land Rovers so the fact U Tube shows more Cruisers on fire than Rovers, I should not be surprised.

I might add that the Toyota's were not all "conflict vehicles". I also ran across a particularly entertaining video of a Land Cruiser pickup cresting a dune and doing the lawn dart thing. It was particularly noteworthy for the individual who was previously standing in the box and holding on to the to headache rack, Beau Geste style. The sand about 50 feet in front seemed fairly soft though, and it was a downslope.


One of my all time favorite youtube videos...


Anyways, we digress. Loss of drive and then catching on fire.. It would appear that most of this sort of thing is happening towing something. Perhaps this could be the "key". More load = more pressure so it makes me wonder if there is some problems there with the associated pipework on all of the coolers on these beasts?

[oldsalt]

Did they actually have an extinguisher ?
I know it's easy to secondguess a situation from afar but the situation looks "saveable" in the first picture (I may be wrong) so it's a good lesson in being "prepared" and having an extinguisher (or two) handy at all times.....I'm very sorry for their loss of course but it does raise some interesting questions.
I'll be very interested in any further developments.

[isuzurover]

Did they actually have an extinguisher ?
I know it's easy to secondguess a situation from afar but the situation looks "saveable" in the first picture (I may be wrong) so it's a good lesson in being "prepared" and having an extinguisher (or two) handy at all times.....I'm very sorry for their loss of course but it does raise some interesting questions.
I'll be very interested in any further developments.

Regardless of whether they did of not, the vehicle would (or should) be a writeoff either way. DCP extinguishers are extremely corrosive, so even if the fire was extinguished early and any fire damaged parts replaced, who knows what electrical gremlins would be waiting down the track.

Relatives who work in IT have told me that if the DCP extinguishers in computer labs ever go off, all the computers need to be replaced. Whether fire damaged or not.

[roamer]

[QUOTE=oldsalt;1454255]Did they actually have an extinguisher ?


Mandatory in boats, (QLD anyway), with a name like oldsalt you should be on to that.

[mowog]

Personally I wouldn't like a car back if it had been on fire.

The other side of this is fighting fires like this can be complex and the available extinguisher may not be the right one to use.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

<snip>Relatives who work in IT have told me that if the DCP extinguishers in computer labs ever go off, all the computers need to be replaced. Whether fire damaged or not.That is the unfortunate consequence of switching from BCF or CO2 extinguisher systems. :(

After a BCF or CO2 dump there was no damage to the electrical systems, other than actually caused by the fire or original fault. Who cares if they were toxic to humans or the Ozone layer! ;)

[oldsalt]

[QUOTE=oldsalt;1454255]Did they actually have an extinguisher ?


Mandatory in boats, (QLD anyway), with a name like oldsalt you should be on to that.

Oh yes...the mandatory fire extinguisher/life vests/flares...usually stored in a locked cupboard, under a bunk, in the darkest/furthest corner of the boat, on a lower deck...or in the back of their car in the car park - which they usually remember when their boat begins to sink....
sorry for the rant but I spent a good deal of my earlier life off the coast of NSW searching for "sailors" (so called) who had just gone out for "a little pootle about in their runabout" - yeh like 20 miles offshore late in the day - NO weather reports, NO mandatory equipment, and NO idea about safety or navigation - then I get called out of my nice warm bed to fly around in circles looking for them - then when you do save their sorry lives they complain that they have to leave their boat to the elements....you really can't please some people - and most of them didn't even say thanks!!!!
Rant over.

[roamer]

THANKS OLDSALT:)











Go on smile
Cheers Ken

[ozscott]

Ohh..I dont know...insured...maybe he thought...LET IT BURN!

Or maybe the poor bugger was shocked and maybe he didnt want to get too close. Who knows whether it could have been put out. What is so flammable down there that it destroyed the whole vehicle - presumably fluid getting squirted all over the shop and catching the tyres was part of it.

Cheers

[Jamo]

The purpose of a fire extinguisher on a car/boat is not necessarily to save the vehicle/vessel from being written off. It is to save the occupants.

[Busman]

The old fire in the hole trick.
Older Rangie V8's are well known for catching fire around the oil cooler, trans lines.
Located near the exhaust pipe.:angel::mad:
It happened to a mate of mine last year going up Cunninghams Gap, with the camp trailer.
The car was up in temp towing up the range, and the hose blew off under pressure.
Luckily another Rangie owner travelling with him, had a fire extinguisher and saved the car, but only just.
He had kids on board, and first and formost was to get all occupants out of the car, then attempt to safely extinguish the fire.
The other guy who had the extingisher also had lost his Rangie for the exact reason a couple of years ago, with no extinguisher to try and put the fire out.
Taking a photo of the car burning, well probably not what l would be doing at the time???
For the price of a extinguisher, all my cars have one fitted.
Including my boat, located next to the driving position.

Certainly a bad situation for the gentleman, but at least he is safe and well.
The car can be replaced, but not his life.

[Nomad9]

Hi Forumites,
Yeap mine went up in smoke, suspected electrical fire, neighbour said the fire seemed to start in the front left quadrant under the bonnet. She called the fire brigade by the time they got to the house the car was gone. Still took them a further three hours to put the fire out the magnesium in the gearbox kept on igniting and because the suspension had melted and collapsed they couldn't get the hose underneath to put the fire out.
The bonnet completely melted and left a rather artistic metal puddle on the floor. I can make a bit of fun about this now but I was distraught at the time. I got a full insurance payout so I bought another one. No problems with this one.
I'd been out in the car, smelt something funny so I bought it back home and took my P38 with the intention of investigating further when I got home. Came home to two fire trucks and a destroyed fence where the fire hoses had landed.

[LGM]

Cameron,

It was diesel D3. Both persons travelling were also Diesel Mechanics by trade!

Lindsay

[rovercare]

He may have been better off getting the fire extingwisher out of the boat and using that instead of the camera

Ever tried to extinguish a oil fire with a 9kg extinguisher?

I think the camera was the best option:D

[isuzurover]

Ever tried to extinguish a oil fire with a 9kg extinguisher?

I think the camera was the best option:D

I think you mean 0.9 kg??? (but I agree)

[rovercare]

I think you mean 0.9 kg??? (but I agree)

A few buttons have been altered by a 2yo on wifeys laptop so work not so good:D

[LGM]

Hi All,

Seems a burning D3 is a generator for some questions. As I stated in my original post I was not involved in person but do have some further information which I can add.

Cameron; The vehicle was a diesel D3.
Pathfinder; Sorry but I dont know if they went 'off road'
Graeme; I am told that the fluid flowing from underneath the vehicle was diesel fuel.
Old Salt & Ozscott; Sorry but I don't know if they had an extinguisher handy. Suffice to say the comments were 'it happend very quickly'. No doubt it took some effort to get the boat detached and pushed out of harms way.

Big Guy; Yep, I l concur with you and reckon it won't buff out!

From what I have been advised subsequently the vehicle is being brought to Perth for investigation and determination re the cause of the fire.

I feel sorry for the people involved. I am told they were more than happy with the vehicle up until that little event.

Lindsay (LGM)

[Jamo]

I had a leak from the HP fuel pump on my D3 due to a failed seal. I was lucky as mine was a weeping leak.

At the time the LR dealer said it was nothing to worry about as the fuel was diesel!!!!!

That statement was absolute rubbish! (and was indicative of the responses I generally received from them!)

If the seal were to perish in a different manner, causing the fuel to come out as an atomised spray (it is a High Pressure fuel pump) as actually happened in a few cases, it would easily ignite on the turbo housing which is nearby.

Mine was a 2005 D3 and I'm assuming the newer models have a modified part. My HP pump was replaced my a different model number to the original.

I carried a fire extinguisher, but if my D3 had caught fire, I'd have got my family out and moved to safety rather than risk trying to extinguish it. I too think the camera was the best option.

[bbyer]

I carried a fire extinguisher, but if my D3 had caught fire, I'd have got my family out and moved to safety rather than risk trying to extinguish it. I too think the camera was the best option.

I tend to agree. The problem with opening the bonnet, assuming do you do not burn your hands just attempting that, is if it is an engine fire, there can be a big flareup when all that new fresh air and the vertical air circulation path is provided. If you are in a City, sometimes the fire department will show up quickly and can control the fire while it is still smoldering, assuming the hood is not opened. It is kind of a judgement thing.

As to the fire extinguisher, yes fortunately only once have I had a small fire in a truck engine compartment. I used a 20 pound dry chemical fire extinguisher, but that is not the size of extinguisher that easily fits into a 3. (about 8" OD and 22" high). The fire was caused by a broken gas line and it did occur to me after the fact, that it may have gone out itself once the engine was turned off.

[oldsalt]

Yep - you certainly don't open the bonnet "all the way" as this causes a big flare up and it's all over pretty quick after that... however if you can safely "pop" the bonnet catch onto the "stops" and then stick the nozzle of the extinguisher into the gap and empty the contents into the engine bay it can sometimes - and I stress sometimes - achieve the desired result for you.
Fires can be very hard to fight and sometimes "discretion is the better part of valour" as they say....cars etc can be replaced - people can't.
I hope my comments about the extinguisher didn't offend anybody as that was not my intention - however I do feel quite strongly that correct fire extinguisher use should be taught as part of any 4WD course - plus some basic first aid, after all the life you save could be your own !!!
cheers

[petera]

Yep - you certainly don't open the bonnet "all the way" as this causes a big flare up and it's all over pretty quick after that... however if you can safely "pop" the bonnet catch onto the "stops" and then stick the nozzle of the extinguisher into the gap and empty the contents into the engine bay it can sometimes - and I stress sometimes - achieve the desired result for you.
Fires can be very hard to fight and sometimes "discretion is the better part of valour" as they say....cars etc can be replaced - people can't.
I hope my comments about the extinguisher didn't offend anybody as that was not my intention - however I do feel quite strongly that correct fire extinguisher use should be taught as part of any 4WD course - plus some basic first aid, after all the life you save could be your own !!!
cheers
I did a few fire fighting courses when i was in the Navy, and i reckon that unless it was very small, i would get everyone out and watch it burn from a safe distance. Not sure if there is much magnesium in a Discovery, but from memory putting water on a magnesium fire accelerates it.
CHeers,
Peter

[Homestar]

Older Rangie V8's are well known for catching fire....

....For the price of a extinguisher, all my cars have one fitted.

I carry 2 in the old Rangie. 1 behind the centre console that I can grab as I exit the car, and one in the back I can use as well if the first one runs out.

Pulled up behind an old VW once that had just pulled over, and was starting to burn - by the time the owner had got out and grabbed his own extinguisher, it was all too late - as mentioned, a .9Kg unit won't go far. I would imagine you would need to catch it very early to have a decent chance.

Bad news all around when this sort of thing happens...

[bbyer]

Not sure if there is much magnesium in a Discovery, but from memory putting water on a magnesium fire accelerates it. Cheers,Peter

For some reason, I think the transmission case of the ZF 6HP26 is magnesium - if so, at least that would explain why it costs so much relative to the Ford 6R60/80 sort of equivalent. I may be wrong but ...

[Busman]

Seems that you would have buckleys chance of saving the car.
Good to hear the comments by everyone, as it brings to all of our attention, what symptoms and relative action, if this similar unfortunate situation arises.

[PAT303]

My misses knows the owners and has travelled in that very D3 quite a few times.From what she told me they were headed back from Coral Bay and without warning smoke billowed out from behind the car and they had enough time to get out before it burnt out.The vehicle had been faultless until then and well looked after. Pat

[big guy]

Relatively speaking, more ferraris have caught fire than any other vehicle brand. especially the new 458 model. They are 6 down and are only making 500. Not good statistics there.

[jonesy63]

So it was a diesel and by the wheels, it was at least a MY07. So the follow-on question would be - did they have the LATEST recall work performed on the HPFP? Yes - the previous recall was updated late last year.
Land Rover?2007 to 2009MY Discovery 3 & Ranger Rover Sport - High pressure fuel injector pump (extension of PRA2009/10962) (http://www.recalls.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/997270)

I've had so many HPFPs replaced, luckily only one involved diesel leaking directly onto the extremely hot turbo - and it didn't catch fire. :eek:

[Teto]

Hi all,
I am (was ) the owner of the D3, Firstly I would like to thank Lindsay for raising this well know issue with the D3 TDV6. Now to set the record straight with the actual events. We left Coral Bay at 04:30 heading back to Perth, some 12hr drive after a 3 day fishing trip & towing a 6.5mtr boat. We stopped at Carnarvon for fuel with no fault with the vehicle, some 150klm south of Carnarvon I over took a slower vehicle which then I did notice a slight difference in the performance of the vehicle and at the time put it down to the 15-20klm head wind. Approximately 5klm after overtaking I glanced in the side mirror to see how the boat was tracking & noticed white smoke coming from the rear of the vehicle & said to the mates that we have a problem.
We were lucky (if you call it that) enough to have a parking bay right there, Myself & the other occupants got out & checked underneath the vehicle to find that there was a fluid gushing from the front left hand side just behind the front wheel, at this point I said to my mate what was the fluid & his response was that it appears to be diesel but that is least of your worries as it is on fire. S**T. At that point I raced to the boat to get the fire extinguisher to find that it was missing, hence I grabbed all the water we had in the boat approx. 4 - 5ltrs. Went back to the vehicle & popped the bonnet & noticed that there was a glow up in under the dash & thought to myself this is not good, once the bonnet was up I found that the fire was well established deep down at the rear of the engine with the sound suppressing material burning quite quickly, I attempted to extinguish the fire with no success, now what, shut the bonnet & try to fight the fire from underneath, hence in one of the photo’s you can see the sound suppressing material that we pulled out, which was diesel soaked. I would also mention that the three of us all work in the underground mining industry & are all trained to fight fires. Now to make the call to save as much as we could out of a really bad situation, get what possessions we could out of the car & get the boat off before we had more dramas on our hands as the boat was carrying 120ltrs of petrol in a 300ltr tank. I will let your imagination run with that thought of the boat burning , not good. I must admit that I have never felt so useless, not being able to do thing but watch the vehicle burn, a situation that I would not wish upon anyone.
I would also like thank the guys that pulled up and gave us a hand to get the boat off, he also was towing a boat and unhitched his boat & took my boat to the nearest roadhouse (90klm round trip) & another big thank you to the two old guys heading back to Perth from their fishing trip at Quobba which gave me a lift to the roadhouse & Des the road train driver that gave me a lift back to Carnarvon to the get a hire car.
The most disappointing part of this ordeal is that LR now about this fault and choose to have these vehicles still on the road, if this happened on a mine site all of that particular model would be parked up and an investigation carried out, the fault repaired and not until then would they return to work. Maybe these car manufactures need to have a good hard look at themselves before there is a fatality.
Lastly I would like to mention that I was very happy with the D3 but must have admit that it will be the first & last Land Rover I will own, once bitten twice shy.
Thanks
John

[Teto]

Jonesy63,
The vehicle was serviced 3 weeks prior to the trip, we contacted the dealer after the event and asked if the HPFP needed to be replaced, their response was that it was not part of the recall. Then we told them maybe they would like to replace it to the burnt out wreck.

[jonesy63]

Jonesy63,
The vehicle was serviced 3 weeks prior to the trip, we contacted the dealer after the event and asked if the HPFP needed to be replaced, their response was that it was not part of the recall. Then we told them maybe they would like to replace it to the burnt out wreck.
Sorry for your loss. :(

My D3 was in for service in early November and to my dismay, they had to hold it over for a couple of days as there were no replacement HPFPs in Sydney. That was for that P021 action I pasted above. If you haven't had the HPFP replaced since November, it was either out of the range (not MY07-MY09) - or the dealer stuffed up. :wasntme:

[Nomad9]

Hi Teto,
Bloody good response, good to get the story straight from the horses mouth so to speak. All the assumptions really taint the truth. I'm not sure but you might of read I lost my D3 as well to fire, I wasn't at home so I didn't see if there was any fluid gushing out.
I'm also sorry that you ended up giving away the marque, I came back for more and I've bought a 2006 TDV6 SE, it's great and I don't regret going back. I did get a full payment from the insurance company which made things a bit easier. I believe my fault was electrical not the fuel pump.
I'm glad know one was hurt and you responded the way you did together with the others you mention, a good outcome to a bad situation, know one was hurt.
Good luck with what ever you decide to go with next.

[CaverD3]

Does sound like the HPFP. Low pressure part of the fuel system is on the RH side.

That is why sales in Russia were stopped.:angel: until LR had a fix.

[big guy]

Thanks for the update andsorry for the loss.
As for 1st and last I totally understand.
Your car could be parked next to all the Cruisers and Patrol that also catch fire at times. Don't feel too special, it has happened to many makes and models, its just one of thoses things and from what I read has been sorted soa new one will probably trouble free.

Just a thought.

[LGM]

Hi John,

I was originally a bit concerned about reporting something which I had not been involved in. In this circumstance I'm now glad I did.

You have experienced an event that could have had far more serious consequences for you and your fellow traveller. What is terrific is you both were not injured.

Whilst none of us can alter your circumstance I am sure most of us are watching and reading with keen interest to see how the subsequent events involving the investigation, the insurer, the dealer and Land Rover Australia pan out for you.

If you are willing to share, those are the things that I now most want to know.

Sorry to hear that you have been 'put off' the LR brand. I personally have had a good run from 2 Disco's over the last 13 years and am looking to upgrade. I have been reading and watching the posts on this and other forums to gather info to assist me in choosing my next vehicle so the way you are treated certainly influences my decision making.

Lindsay

[Signal1]

On a lighter note; if there can be such a thing, when viewing the third photo of the vehicle (shell) I thought gees you blokes have big tractors over there using the D3 as comparison...then realised it must be on the back of a truck. :oops2: