Its LS1 time!

[rovercare]

Hey P38 people, well its time to suck it and see, I'm going to start an LS1 and 4L60e conversion on a P38

Spent a good part of today measuring one up and as expected it should be a nice fit, looking factory like

So....now its time for a donor vehicle, looking for a neat HSE, any year preferably cheap with a crook 4.6, but still want the vehicle running, some issues fine, but generally a sound car is desired and Vic location

From my research its possible to overcome the BeCM aspect of this, with some expensive software and alot of hard work

The intent is to succesfully complete one for myself, fully engineered and everything working as it should, leaving the ability for diagnostics at any Holden equipped dealer/specialist for the engine ECU, this is easy, I've done plenty of these in other vehicles, then I'll be offering drive in, drive out converisons only, no kits just yet

Basically I'm on a call for help for a donor vehicle, suitably price...oh wish me luck over the next yearish it'll take to complete along with new house, new kid and all the rest:D

[Mick_Marsh]

Sounds good. I'll be watching this thread with interest.

[LOVEMYRANGIE]

Hmmm might watch this too. RRC and an LS1 would be nice and a lot less complicated electronically.


I am not a moderator, I am a human being!!!

[rovercare]

Hmmm might watch this too. RRC and an LS1 would be nice and a lot less complicated electronically.


I am not a moderator, I am a human being!!!

Yea, but done that, once the adaptors become a viable and tested thing, they'll be offered as a conversion, Andrew from Hiline4wd is in the midst of this now

Watch this years cliffhanger, look for a bright yellow LS1 powered Discovery and a Magenta LS1 powered RRC;)

[Hoges]

Are you proposing to use the transfer case in the 4wd Holden Crewman or have you in mind some adaption of the BW 2 speed viscous coupling unit?

The later 5 or even 6 sp Alison autos would be even better!

Once you get the integration software sorted, the "EFLive" product is excellent for remapping the LS1 engine. The original OS for the LS1 as per VX Series 1 /II was fairly primitive. there are some excellent tunes now available which improve economy/power and general efficiency. The EFLive enables you to drive around and record the performance then change the database as required to tweak the settings where actuals vary from target...

I await the results with much anticipation!!

Mind you, a 3L straight 6 turbocharged BMW common rail diesel would be a REAL delight!!

[mike 90 RR]

.... Reading with interest ... :)

[SuperchargedSport]

hmmm ls1 in sarah's LSE RRC.... hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
hmmmmm

hmmmm
hmmmmmm

hmmmmmm

ls2 is better lol

[rovercare]

Are you proposing to use the transfer case in the 4wd Holden Crewman or have you in mind some adaption of the BW 2 speed viscous coupling unit?

The later 5 or even 6 sp Alison autos would be even better!

Once you get the integration software sorted, the "EFLive" product is excellent for remapping the LS1 engine. The original OS for the LS1 as per VX Series 1 /II was fairly primitive. there are some excellent tunes now available which improve economy/power and general efficiency. The EFLive enables you to drive around and record the performance then change the database as required to tweak the settings where actuals vary from target...

I await the results with much anticipation!!

Mind you, a 3L straight 6 turbocharged BMW common rail diesel would be a REAL delight!!

The Borg warner of course

Yes, I've fitted/wired heaps of LS1's, this is the easy easy bit:D

If I succesfully manage this conversion, the conversion options will be endless

[Psimpson7]

Good luck Matt! Will be very interested to watch your progress! :)

[Keithy P38]

Doors are opening... Good luck mate! If you can fit an LS1, you can fit an LS2... even an LS7 :-)

Cheers
Keithy

[isuzurover]

even an LS7 :-)


You would need ashcroft's Ford 9" diff conversion for that one though...

[RoverHse]

I've been day dreaming about this conversion. The Rover V8 does have a GM heritage, so it makes sense. I am looking forward yo your posts.

Good luck.

[DT-P38]

This sounds sen-bloody-sational!!!

I know it's VERY early days, but a few general interest type questions.

1. What would the kw output of the LS1 being used (standard DI-DO conversion)?

2. Would there also be an hi-po (DI-DO) version in mind? And what kw's?

3. How long would a DI-DO realistically take (once the conversion process is known and sorted efficiently)?

4. AND The big one... what sort of $'s we talking for DI-DO?

I know they are all probably "how long's a piece of string" stuff at the moment, but even if it's only what your aiming for I can sort of get an idea about the budget I need to start saving for!!!

[rovercare]

This sounds sen-bloody-sational!!!

I know it's VERY early days, but a few general interest type questions.

1. What would the kw output of the LS1 being used (standard DI-DO conversion)?

2. Would there also be an hi-po (DI-DO) version in mind? And what kw's?

3. How long would a DI-DO realistically take (once the conversion process is known and sorted efficiently)?

4. AND The big one... what sort of $'s we talking for DI-DO?

I know they are all probably "how long's a piece of string" stuff at the moment, but even if it's only what your aiming for I can sort of get an idea about the budget I need to start saving for!!!

1. The first I'll be doing will likely be a 225KW medium kay engine and trans, stock is it comes, as its the initial trial, so costs stay to a minimum until its sorted

2. Upon completing the first, it will then be open slather fitting anything from the LS engine family, I''l likely be trying to fit brand new 6L jobbies with new trans, which will leave with a brand new engine and transmission, untouched, from GMH, which should be trouble free for...well, as long as a new commodore

3. The drive in drive out process will be a difficult one to say as yet, it depends on the parts I find available as bolt in fitment, ie. exhaust headers, or whether they become custom jobs, the idea is to utelise as much factory componetry as possible, which serves multiple purposes, it makes the change over more time efficient, the whole job is neater and of a factory standard and any failed parts can easily be replaced

4. I'd be expecting 15-20k, drive in-out, once sorted 20K should see you with a brand new 6L, brand new 4L60e, fitted, vic engineered

Essentially the conversion is easy, its overcoming the issues with the BeCM, if I can sort these....at great expense mind you! I hope to see a few GMH engined P38's around

In all seriousness, would this gauge your interest? just there is a good chance number 2 conversion will get a substantial discount, merely just to get a few out there:)

[Hoges]

The "LS1 Power" blokes in the UK ...website now u/s ...used the LS1 with a redesigned bell housing whic they had to get specially cast and machined to mate the orig. ZF auto box to the standard LS1. They modified the LS1 to utilise all sensors from the Rover 4.6L (GEMS as I recall) ... which sort of defeats the purpose... but I guess it's cheaper.

BTW the LS1 has found a lot of application in kit planes in the USA and has been approved for use "as is" ...says a lot about its reliability.


Question: how are you proposing to accommodate the BW transfer casing to the GM automatic gearbox?

[rovercare]

The "LS1 Power" blokes in the UK ...website now u/s ...used the LS1 with a redesigned bell housing whic they had to get specially cast and machined to mate the orig. ZF auto box to the standard LS1. They modified the LS1 to utilise all sensors from the Rover 4.6L (GEMS as I recall) ... which sort of defeats the purpose... but I guess it's cheaper.

BTW the LS1 has found a lot of application in kit planes in the USA and has been approved for use "as is" ...says a lot about its reliability.


Question: how are you proposing to accommodate the BW transfer casing to the GM automatic gearbox?

They need the bellhousing a the LS_s come with the large ring gear GM use only

I know all this info Hoges, its in a few threads about the place we've both posted, I've been looking at doing this for a few years

They'll be mated together by machining up adaptors and shafts, this is the simple part of the process

[DT-P38]

In all seriousness, would this gauge your interest? just there is a good chance number 2 conversion will get a substantial discount, merely just to get a few out there:)

No offence intended, but I don't think I'd be ready to jump on board at $20K but from what you said thats for an ALL NEW 6.0 & trans. I'd be happier with something like the 'alpha' model your suggesting... 2nd hand (or perhaps reco) base/225kw unit. Surely that as a 'beta' would still help out with finetuning the process and product.

Assuming all that went well, and it brought 'the pretty pig' up to as solid and reliable a product as the Mrs 100 series, I could probably then get her to entertain the thought of flogging off her toyota and building a P38 'premium' truck...

Actually, hang on now... I know these guys who have some pretty cool accessories and upgrades for P38's (;) HRA) and one of them is regularly pulling P38's to bits and talking of flaring guards and sticking 44's under one... hell, maybe we should all just start talking up an extremely tough LS1 P38 comp truck :cool:

[RR P38]

Here it is already done.

Caraholics : Overfinch 630R, 6.3 chevy V8, with exclusivity (http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2226335.htm)

[isuzurover]

Here it is already done.

Caraholics : Overfinch 630R, 6.3 chevy V8, with exclusivity (http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2226335.htm)

Sure, but how much???

a cost of 52500 pounds = AU$81500 at current exchange rates.

[agrojnr]

There was a LS1 and auto on flea bay the other day for 1500 bucks

Adam

[mike 90 RR]

I wouldn't get hung up on the price .... It's quite reasonable for what's been described :)

If you can find ways to cheapen it up, then good on ya ...





I'm more interested in the build + can appreciate the effort, time and research on how to do it ... :D :thumbsup:


Cheers
Mike

[wanglemoose]

I was looking at doing a similar conversion, using a vt 5ltr and t700 but it was waay over my budget. just to get the adapter made for the auto to transfer was going to be about 3g plus a spud shaft. have you considered using the diffs and t box from a d2. by switching over it would allow you to use the lt230t which there are already heaps of adapters for. also we were looking at having to piggy back both the engine ecu and the auto ecu.
the conversion is very do able but i think 20g is going to be a bit conservative. good luck
mick

[RR P38]

Sure, but how much???
= AU$81500 at current exchange rates.

That was 10k Pounds that car.
52kPounds spent on it Ouch.

I looked at importing this afternoon cant do unless it has been in your ownership/used in UK/OS for 12 months.

[rovercare]

No offence intended, but I don't think I'd be ready to jump on board at $20K but from what you said thats for an ALL NEW 6.0 & trans. I'd be happier with something like the 'alpha' model your suggesting... 2nd hand (or perhaps reco) base/225kw unit. Surely that as a 'beta' would still help out with finetuning the process and product.

Assuming all that went well, and it brought 'the pretty pig' up to as solid and reliable a product as the Mrs 100 series, I could probably then get her to entertain the thought of flogging off her toyota and building a P38 'premium' truck...

Actually, hang on now... I know these guys who have some pretty cool accessories and upgrades for P38's (;) HRA) and one of them is regularly pulling P38's to bits and talking of flaring guards and sticking 44's under one... hell, maybe we should all just start talking up an extremely tough LS1 P38 comp truck :cool:

No offence taken:)

Yes it will be out of alot of people budget, but alas, the clientele I'll be after will be those who wish to drop their car off, return back and pick up the finished product and be on there merry way with what will hopefully be an excellent product

For once I won't be catering for those who wish to DIY this conversion, its to build up an in house, feasible, viable choise for those who love the P38 and wish to keep it for many more years to come

The conversion cost will be the same, whether one chooses a high kay engine trans or brand new crate job, the variable expense will be the purchasing of the drivetrain, the conversion work is still the same regardless, which can vary from a $1500 econd hand LS1 and auto to 8K everything brand new in a crate

[rovercare]

I was looking at doing a similar conversion, using a vt 5ltr and t700 but it was waay over my budget. just to get the adapter made for the auto to transfer was going to be about 3g plus a spud shaft. have you considered using the diffs and t box from a d2. by switching over it would allow you to use the lt230t which there are already heaps of adapters for. also we were looking at having to piggy back both the engine ecu and the auto ecu.
the conversion is very do able but i think 20g is going to be a bit conservative. good luck
mick

Welcome to the world of engine conversions:D

No, as the P38 runs left hand drop, which actually turns out better for front propshaft clearance, to change to LT230, you may aswell buy a D2 and convert that

Overcoming the ECU's in the P38 are the huge hurdle, aside from engineering, the conversion itself will be fine, such as the HEVAC system communicates with the engine ECU and the BeCM, so as to have the climate control operate without fault, as per factory, lots of majic has to happen and that's just one VERY small example, I'll be drawing up and outsourcing the adaptors, everything will be supplied from various suppliers in bulk, so as they can't be easily reproduced

There is alot to it, I believe I have all the right sources, which are many:eek: to sort this out, time will tell:D

[Hoges]

There are a couple of options here...

Re. the BECM, it may be feasible to salvage the BECM from a Commodore and use that with a full LS1/Allison 5 sp transmission package and associated ECUs. The Commodore ...since 1993 at least, has also had a far better (digital)cruise control which uses a stepper motor rather than the crappy vacuum system in the P38.

If the various interface voltages and source code(s) could be obtained, any self respecting software integration engineer could write the bridging software to link it all together... do we have any Defence industry engineers amongst the LR faithful on this site? they do this sort of stuff all the time...or someone who "knows" someone who dabbles in race car telemetry ...thinking super V8s.

Thoughts?

[rovercare]

There are a couple of options here...

Re. the BECM, it may be feasible to salvage the BECM from a Commodore and use that with a full LS1/Allison 5 sp transmission package and associated ECUs. The Commodore ...since 1993 at least, has also had a far better (digital)cruise control which uses a stepper motor rather than the crappy vacuum system in the P38.

If the various interface voltages and source code(s) could be obtained, any self respecting software integration engineer could write the bridging software to link it all together... do we have any Defence industry engineers amongst the LR faithful on this site? they do this sort of stuff all the time...or someone who "knows" someone who dabbles in race car telemetry ...thinking super V8s.

Thoughts?

Thoughts? your thinking to much:D

My idea is to make a stand alone engine/transmission combination, which is reliable, so incorporating an extra body control module is not something I wan't to do

[Vern]

so will you be a vendor offering aulro discounts:p

[cal415]

Sounds good, look forward to seeing some pics of one bolted in :)

20k for new motor/box, installed with all the little bits and pieces done sounds like an absolute bargain to me, i know roughly how much i have spent on my LS1 conversion but more importantly how many hours i have put into it....

[Hoges]

Actually I was wondering about the feasibility of swapping out the LR BECM and replacing it with the body control module from the Holden... thus there'd be a lot less "mission critical" stuff to integrate...

PS my son arrived this afternoon from out west in the VX commodore which has been passed on in the family. It's 10 yrs old and only has 114k km on the clock. I drove it to deliver him to his 'social engagement' and again marvelled at the ease with which the LS1 goes about its business. He has a 70km apprx round trip commute each day and the engine is showing the benefits of the regular long run...smooth as! He calibrated the "fuel used" option on the trip computer then let it accumulate over the last 2200km of mixed driving...average fuel use is 10.4L/100km ..not bad for 5.7L .

[glenhendry]

If the various interface voltages and source code(s) could be obtained, any self respecting software integration engineer could write the bridging software to link it all together... do we have any Defence industry engineers amongst the LR faithful on this site? they do this sort of stuff all the time...or someone who "knows" someone who dabbles in race car telemetry ...thinking super V8s.


I am one of these. I work for the mob who makes 747s and so on, but we do defence stuff here in Oz. I no longer code day to day, but given the right interface data I think I can code whatever we need. I would be glad to be involved with a project to make other/better engines readily available for P38s, but with three kids under 8, time will be my biggest problem.

[Hoges]

PM sent!
cheers