OEM Wrangler 19"ers - too many punctures

[Celtoid]

I haven't had a puncture in years and I've just had three in a week. I went out to Benarkin State Forest this weekend with my family and some friends. Nothing unusual about the load or the driving (as I've been there before). I got a nail through one of the rear tyres last weekend but thought nothing of it as it was a pretty long nail. However, this weekend, I punctured two tyres (the rear, worn ones) just driving on Forestry tracks.....both from sharp rocks going through between the tread.

Apart from the fact that it was a major pain in the ass unloading to change a tyre on the way home, the D4 had masked the fact that the tyre was going flat. I pulled over in Esk as the car had started feeling a bit wobbly and was horrified to see that the side-walls had been chewed away. If it had blown.....well you all know how ugly that could have been. Heavy car with wife and kids on board....not happy Jan! :mad:

So my take...unless you intend on never leaving the hard-top, you need to be aware of the tyre's shortcomings and I don't just mean off-road capability...it's a hell of a co-incidence that the new front tyres are unmarked. The last time I drove the D4 over the same terrain, the tyres were new and of course had no issue. But to sell a tyre for an expensive truck, that will punture in relatively mild conditions, just 'cause they have gone through close to half their tread, is dangerous and criminal.

Sorry for the ramble folks...but I now have two 'good' tyres on the front, two repaired tyres on the rear (that are worn) and no spare. I am going to buy a new set of tyres (albeit ahead of time) but from reading the threads on this site, that may take a week or so.

Regards,

Kev.

[NomadicD3]

However the real reason for the post is to suggest a tyre pressure monitoring system??? May give you a little peace of mind and as you are changing tyres anyway now would be a good time to fit the internal tyre set-up. Just a thought ;)
cheers
P.S. Yes i am sure you may have already thought of this:D

[Celtoid]

However the real reason for the post is to suggest a tyre pressure monitoring system??? May give you a little peace of mind and as you are changing tyres anyway now would be a good time to fit the internal tyre set-up. Just a thought ;)
cheers
P.S. Yes i am sure you may have already thought of this:D

LOL....yes....every paranoid moment on the drive home....hahaha.

My mate drove his D3 all round Australia and purchased a system due to the fact that he had trashed a brand new 18" Cooper, without realising it had gone flat.....I sat there wishing all the way home, that I had the same.

Cheers,

Kev.

[CaverD3]

The Wranglers are a pretty useless tire on dirt in any size.
Had a puncture every off road trip until I went to Cooper HT+s and now GGs.

[Celtoid]

The Wranglers are a pretty useless tire on dirt in any size.
Had a puncture every off road trip until I went to Cooper HT+s and now GGs.

Yup, gonna bite the bullet and have been looking at a new set...Not OEMs that's for sure! The range is really limited in this size but leaning towards Scorpion ATR. Apparently they are available in Brisbane.

Originally I was trying to get a couple of second hand Wranglers to give me time to buy the Pirellis from the US.....but think I'm just going to get them locally while they are available. That way I'll have the car back on the road by the end of the week.

Cheers.

Kev.

[bbyer]

I am posting this as good news. My 19" Wrangler HP's are finally worn out so I am in the process of choosing new 19" "summer" highway tyres.

Part of me wants the Good Year Silent Armor rubber, (actually the Kevlar), but there is nothing available in 19", at least here in Canada.

While I was at the local Good Year dealer, I mentioned that while I am in theory a Good Year fan, the Wrangler HP's were the worst tyre I have ever experienced. He agreed with me and said he pretty much had always refused to sell them except maybe a single to match up with an OEM.

Anyway, for 19" summer tyres, my choice seems to be between the Michelin Latitude Tour HP and the Pirelli Scorpion ATR. The Michelin's are maybe fifty dollars a tyre cheaper and probably have more highway miles in them; also perhaps a better ride and have Kevlar / Aramid wound into them. Also I note that here, that the Tour HP is standard on the FFRR.

For any off pavement use however, the ATR is the choice.

[Celtoid]

Thanks very much for the offers of help and the PMs (some posts have been deleted due to an oversight of my own).

I bit the bullet and booked the car in for Scorpion ATRs (fitted tomorrow).

Whilst doing it this way has hit me in the hip pocket, I'm travelling this weekend and going away at Easter, so I needed the peace of mind that my tyres would stay inflated.

And in response to your comment bbyer, it was funny, the guy doing my repair in Blackbutt was trying to be diplomatic when he mentioned the Wranglers. I anticipated his angst and stated "it's OK mate, I know they are crap"....he just laughed.

Regards,

Kev.

[petera]

I am posting this as good news. My 19" Wrangler HP's are finally worn out so I am in the process of choosing new 19" "summer" highway tyres.

Part of me wants the Good Year Silent Armor rubber, (actually the Kevlar), but there is nothing available in 19", at least here in Canada.

While I was at the local Good Year dealer, I mentioned that while I am in theory a Good Year fan, the Wrangler HP's were the worst tyre I have ever experienced. He agreed with me and said he pretty much had always refused to sell them except maybe a single to match up with an OEM.

Anyway, for 19" summer tyres, my choice seems to be between the Michelin Latitude Tour HP and the Pirelli Scorpion ATR. The Michelin's are maybe fifty dollars a tyre cheaper and probably have more highway miles in them; also perhaps a better ride and have Kevlar / Aramid wound into them. Also I note that here, that the Tour HP is standard on the FFRR.

For any off pavement use however, the ATR is the choice.
Hi BBYER,
i can thoroughly recommend the 18 in rims from gghaggis. I placed the silent arnours and aside from slicing the sidewall on one (not to the point of deflation) i am really happy with them.
Cheers,
Peter

[bbyer]

Hi BBYER,
i can thoroughly recommend the 18 in rims from gghaggis. I placed the silent armors and aside from slicing the sidewall on one (not to the point of deflation) i am really happy with them.
Cheers,
Peter

My best purchase on eBay a few years back was a set of four 18" rims from an SE for my winter tyres. I have six of the 19" HSE rims that I use for my "summer" highway wheels/spares. For summer use, 19" is OK as it does not matter much what one has on - that was how I tolerated the Wrangler HP's anyway. For winter, that is another matter.

Higher profile narrow rubber matters in the snow and therefore a selection of tyres, even more so. At least with 18", one has a pretty good choice. Myself, I think what makes the Silent Armor a good tyre is the Kevlar within. Any tyre I have had that has the Kevlar, (Aramid to Good Year) has been a good tyre in my experience.

[petera]

My best purchase on eBay a few years back was a set of four 18" rims from an SE for my winter tyres. I have six of the 19" HSE rims that I use for my "summer" highway wheels/spares. For summer use, 19" is OK as it does not matter much what one has on - that was how I tolerated the Wrangler HP's anyway. For winter, that is another matter.

Higher profile narrow rubber matters in the snow and therefore a selection of tyres, even more so. At least with 18", one has a pretty good choice. Myself, I think what makes the Silent Armor a good tyre is the Kevlar within. Any tyre I have had that has the Kevlar, (Aramid to Good Year) has been a good tyre in my experience.

Would you use the silent armours in the snow without chains?

[bbyer]

Would you use the silent armours in the snow without chains?

For the most part, we do not now ever use chains on our cars or pickups.

Chains are used mainly on the heavy hauler semi trailer tractor units, (Kenworth's), as they run "summer" tyres year around, so to speak - and that is only in the mountain passes / hills etc.

The use of chains on passenger vehicles is virtually unheard of now.

We are both lazy and much looser re laws and the like, but tyres with the snow flake symbol are getting more common for winter use. We have here what are called All Season tyres, and they are legal for use 12 months a year and that is what all OEM tyres are. The Wrangler HP's are All Season, and well .... - you get the idea.

The Wrangler Silent Armor tyre has the snowflake rating and more importantly, has a good deep blocky tread pattern and a rubber formulation that at least on the snowflake marked tyres is of a type that tends to remain soft in cold weather.

Also note that there is a big difference in design between the Good Year Fortura Silent Armor and the Wrangler Silent Armor, at least here in Canada. Our 3's should have the Wrangler Silent Armor installed, whereas a Jeep Grand Cherokee can run the Forturas.

We do not use studs in the tyres either as that was made illegal years back due to perceived pavement damage. Guys who ice race use studs however.

Probably the best snow tyres are made by Nokian out of Finland, but they do not really make a size that I feel fits my 18" rims. My idea of a real snow tyre is narrow, tall, knobby, (side walls as well), and a sticky rubber, which means it does not do too well re mileage.

The Wrangler Silent Armour is a good compromise, (all tyres are a compromise with something), between summer and winter, with the bias towards winter. If I could get them in 19", I would probably run them as my summer pavement tyres as well.

[p38arover]

Interesting. We can't enter the Alps when there is snow unless we fit chains.

[petera]

For the most part, we do not now ever use chains on our cars or pickups.

Chains are used mainly on the heavy hauler semi trailer tractor units, (Kenworth's), as they run "summer" tyres year around, so to speak - and that is only in the mountain passes / hills etc.

The use of chains on passenger vehicles is virtually unheard of now.

We are both lazy and much looser re laws and the like, but tyres with the snow flake symbol are getting more common for winter use. We have here what are called All Season tyres, and they are legal for use 12 months a year and that is what all OEM tyres are. The Wrangler HP's are All Season, and well .... - you get the idea.

The Wrangler Silent Armor tyre has the snowflake rating and more importantly, has a good deep blocky tread pattern and a rubber formulation that at least on the snowflake marked tyres is of a type that tends to remain soft in cold weather.

Also note that there is a big difference in design between the Good Year Fortura Silent Armor and the Wrangler Silent Armor, at least here in Canada. Our 3's should have the Wrangler Silent Armor installed, whereas a Jeep Grand Cherokee can run the Forturas.

We do not use studs in the tyres either as that was made illegal years back due to perceived pavement damage. Guys who ice race use studs however.

Probably the best snow tyres are made by Nokian out of Finland, but they do not really make a size that I feel fits my 18" rims. My idea of a real snow tyre is narrow, tall, knobby, (side walls as well), and a sticky rubber, which means it does not do too well re mileage.

The Wrangler Silent Armour is a good compromise, (all tyres are a compromise with something), between summer and winter, with the bias towards winter. If I could get them in 19", I would probably run them as my summer pavement tyres as well.

I just loked at my SA's and can't see the snow flake symbol; maybe they are a diifferent tyre for Aus vs Canada?

[bbyer]

I just looked at my SA's and can't see the snow flake symbol; maybe they are a different tyre for Aus vs Canada?

I can believe that it is very possible that the North American spec-ed Wrangler Silent Armor tyres are a different tread compound from the Australian Wrangler Silent Armour.

Country of origin is moulded into the sidewall rubber of most tyres so it would be interesting to see where your Silent Armor's are made. Our tyres show either USA or Canada, but even that does not tell you what the rubber compound is.

The links below are to both the Wrangler and Fortera versions of the Silent Armor tyres. Not only are the tread patterns very different, the Wrangler ones here have the SnowFlake / Mountain symbol, (there is a sub link describing and showing the symbol on the Wrangler link). I also note that the Fortera Silent Armor tyres here do not have the SnowFlake, but are rated as All Season, like my HP's.

I have had first hand experience with very different rubber compounds in tyres of the same naming. Back in the nineties, I had a Buick Roadmaster, a full sized rear wheel drive 4 door sedan. I was able to pickup at a good price from the local Good Year warehouse, their last, (only), set of Made in Luxembourg OEM spec-ed tyres for Bentley and/or Rolls Royce.

These were the best of tyres; they were the worst of tyres. Above 80 mph in the summer, once the tyre warmed up, they were fabulous; in the winter, well .... It was just a case that even though those tyres had the same brand markings, (an Eagle of some sort with Kevlar), as the Made in USA tyres, the Made in Luxembourg tyres were entirely different in nature.

It may be that your local Australian spec Wrangler Silent Armour tyres have a desert rubber compound whereas our same name tyres here have cold weather rubber instead.

Goodyear Wrangler SilentArmor (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp'tireMake=Goodyear&tireModel=Wrangler+SilentArmor)

Goodyear Fortera SilentArmor (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp'tireMake=Goodyear&tireModel=Fortera+SilentArmor)

[Graeme]

The LT225/75-16 Wrangler SAs that I had on my D2 had the snow-flake symbol and were made in USA.

As for Alpine areas, I was under the impression that 4WDs in NSW only had to carry chains rather than had to fit them. I recall there was talk of introducing legislation to allow that option only if the tyres had the snow-flake symbol because there were too many instances of 4wds getting into strife when they didn't have appropriate tyres.

[p38arover]

As for Alpine areas, I was under the impression that 4WDs in NSW only had to carry chains rather than had to fit them.

I think you are right and I was wrong. (Don't tell my wife!)

[Graeme]

The only reason that thought stuck in my mind is because I can do a day trip to alpine areas and the tyres I had just fitted to my D2 (Pirelli ATRs) did not have the snow-flake symbol yet my previous GY SAs did. That doesn't make it correct though.

[bbyer]

For what it is worth, the snowflake/mountain symbol was just introduced a few years ago, (about 2000), so not all suitable tyres have incorporated the symbol yet.

Some tyres have the letters M+S moulded into the sidewall instead, others just an S and there are arguments to say that these tyres are "other than summer tyres".

There are similar arguments for LT tyres as well as certain branded tyres sold as winter tyres but not having the appropriate symbols. As such, unless the local authorities are following a simple interpretation of what is a winter tyre, (snowflake or else!), the rule still seems to be that if it looks like a snow or mud tyre, (knobby etc), they it is OK.

Also there are getting to be arguments as to when a snowflake tyre is not a winter accepted tyre any longer. Some tyres are carrying two sets of wear bars now - the usual ones where the tyre is no longer safe in summer conditions and a second higher bar where the lack of tread depth means that its winter characteristics are no longer adequate. Also to confuse things, adequate snow traction is not the same as good ice traction so ....

Winter Tech - How to Confirm a Winter Performer (http://www.tirerack.com/winter/tech/techpage.jsp'techid=125)

[petera]

I can believe that it is very possible that the North American spec-ed Wrangler Silent Armor tyres are a different tread compound from the Australian Wrangler Silent Armour.

Country of origin is moulded into the sidewall rubber of most tyres so it would be interesting to see where your Silent Armor's are made. Our tyres show either USA or Canada, but even that does not tell you what the rubber compound is.

The links below are to both the Wrangler and Fortera versions of the Silent Armor tyres. Not only are the tread patterns very different, the Wrangler ones here have the SnowFlake / Mountain symbol, (there is a sub link describing and showing the symbol on the Wrangler link). I also note that the Fortera Silent Armor tyres here do not have the SnowFlake, but are rated as All Season, like my HP's.

I have had first hand experience with very different rubber compounds in tyres of the same naming. Back in the nineties, I had a Buick Roadmaster, a full sized rear wheel drive 4 door sedan. I was able to pickup at a good price from the local Good Year warehouse, their last, (only), set of Made in Luxembourg OEM spec-ed tyres for Bentley and/or Rolls Royce.

These were the best of tyres; they were the worst of tyres. Above 80 mph in the summer, once the tyre warmed up, they were fabulous; in the winter, well .... It was just a case that even though those tyres had the same brand markings, (an Eagle of some sort with Kevlar), as the Made in USA tyres, the Made in Luxembourg tyres were entirely different in nature.

It may be that your local Australian spec Wrangler Silent Armour tyres have a desert rubber compound whereas our same name tyres here have cold weather rubber instead.

Goodyear Wrangler SilentArmor (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp'tireMake=Goodyear&tireModel=Wrangler+SilentArmor)

Goodyear Fortera SilentArmor (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp'tireMake=Goodyear&tireModel=Fortera+SilentArmor)
I had to change the front left silent armor yesterday due to a puncture and a completely deflated tyre and whilst looking for the puncture, found the snow flake symbol.
My initial satisfaction with the SA is very rapidly evaporating. The puncture was through a lug on the main tread surface. There was no nail etc and the puncture was esentially invisible but could be found by the rapid jet of air escaping.

[bbyer]

The puncture was through a lug on the main tread surface. There was no nail etc and the puncture was essentially invisible but could be found by the rapid jet of air escaping.

I guess the hole has to be somewhere, but thru a lug suggests some sort of point standing up. I suppose it was a piece of sharp rock but the Kevlar belt is supposed to stop that. I hope the HP disease is not spreading throughout the Goodyear tyre line!

I recall one near instant flat I had as I drove over a standing up tack that had removed itself from the bottom of a wooden table leg. the 2" tack was very much still in the tread however so there was not much guessing.

Maybe we should be running the old LT bias 8 ply sidewall tyres with the zig zag tread pattern when new that was about an inch thick.

[pjvdl]

Well after the last week, I wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment that the OEM tyres are not good for punctures after some wear. We have just finished a trip to the Bendleby Ranges in the Southern Flinders ranges and punctured three of the OEM Goodyear Wranglers:

- 1 on bitumen with a 3" nail (this mysteriously appeared after we stopped in Clare for lunch and I noticed a few young locals hanging around the car :( ). I only noticed it when I lost the back-end of the car going around a sweeping corner at 110km/h towing a trailer. Luckily I caught it in time, so this one is repairable
- 1 on dirt road. Unfortunately, this was my fault. I was still running high-load, bitumen tyre pressures (42 PSI on rear) after going from bitumen to high speed dirt roads. This one wasn't repairable because I must have run on it for a while before noticing it. In fact, I must have been quite some time, as I only noticed it when the suspension went into limp mode - I little scary until I worked out what the problem was!
- 1 through the sidewall on a slow rough, rocky creek bed. Again, not repairable.

Thank goodness I has invested in a tyre repair kit and good compressor. What a great piece of kit! I used this kit to temporarily repair two of the tyres while still on the car! This was enough to get us home to Adelaide safely.

The tyres had 11k on them and were roughly 30 - 40% worn by my estimate. By way of comparison, we did this same trip last year on new tyres and didn't have any problems. Maybe we just got lucky last time, but they certainly don't seem to perform as well once they have a few kms on them.

Needless to say, I am in the process of following others' leads and replacing them with something else. I am also leaning towards the Pirelli Scorpion ATRs, as we do 95% road and only 5% offroad.

[petera]

[QUOTE=bbyer;1469013]I guess the hole has to be somewhere, but thru a lug suggests some sort of point standing up. I suppose it was a piece of sharp rock but the Kevlar belt is supposed to stop that. I hope the HP disease is not spreading throughout the Goodyear tyre line!
Not sure if the disease is spreading, but it appears kevlar is not a 100% immunisation!
I didn't have much luck with machines this Easter as I also managed to sink a Jetski:confused:

[Celtoid]

Well after the last week, I wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment that the OEM tyres are not good for punctures after some wear. We have just finished a trip to the Bendleby Ranges in the Southern Flinders ranges and punctured three of the OEM Goodyear Wranglers:

- 1 on bitumen with a 3" nail (this mysteriously appeared after we stopped in Clare for lunch and I noticed a few young locals hanging around the car :( ). I only noticed it when I lost the back-end of the car going around a sweeping corner at 110km/h towing a trailer. Luckily I caught it in time, so this one is repairable
- 1 on dirt road. Unfortunately, this was my fault. I was still running high-load, bitumen tyre pressures (42 PSI on rear) after going from bitumen to high speed dirt roads. This one wasn't repairable because I must have run on it for a while before noticing it. In fact, I must have been quite some time, as I only noticed it when the suspension went into limp mode - I little scary until I worked out what the problem was!
- 1 through the sidewall on a slow rough, rocky creek bed. Again, not repairable.

Thank goodness I has invested in a tyre repair kit and good compressor. What a great piece of kit! I used this kit to temporarily repair two of the tyres while still on the car! This was enough to get us home to Adelaide safely.

The tyres had 11k on them and were roughly 30 - 40% worn by my estimate. By way of comparison, we did this same trip last year on new tyres and didn't have any problems. Maybe we just got lucky last time, but they certainly don't seem to perform as well once they have a few kms on them.

Needless to say, I am in the process of following others' leads and replacing them with something else. I am also leaning towards the Pirelli Scorpion ATRs, as we do 95% road and only 5% offroad.

Mate I wouldn't be beating yourself up over the pressure, I think it's more about the tyre.

....on a previous trip (when the tyres were new) I drove all over the area where I recently got the puntures, with fully loaded placard pressures, with no issue at all.

This time round, I was operating at normal pressures, with varying loads. The newer tyres on the front were completely unmarked, the worn ones got the flats.

If you have the time, look at Tirerack....massive...and I mean massive saving!

Cheers,

Kev.

[Bushwanderer]

SNIP
I didn't have much luck with machines this Easter as I also managed to sink a Jetski:confused:

Thanks Pete. ;)