Wheel nuts too wide

[wouldbeowner]

Recently had a blue slip inspection and was pinged for the wheel nuts being too wide. They probably extend beyond the end of the stud by about 2mm. The car has wolf wheels. Is this unusual? Has anyone else bumped into this issue - how did you address it. I suppose I could take them to a mechanical workshop and get them ground down.

[JDNSW]

Interesting fault to get you on - all Series Landrovers up until the very last of those with 9/16 wheel studs (1948-1970) had the nut extend beyond the end of the stud by a couple of threads - I always assumed this was deliberate, to prevent damage to the thread of the stud.

The Wolf wheels are thicker than the standard wheels, so this is not unexpected.

John

[wrinklearthur]

Recently had a blue slip inspection and was pinged for the wheel nuts being too wide. They probably extend beyond the end of the stud by about 2mm. The car has wolf wheels. Is this unusual? Has anyone else bumped into this issue - how did you address it. I suppose I could take them to a mechanical workshop and get them ground down.

Hi wouldbeowner

A picture in this case would be worth a thousand and one words, as a little more info is required.

There is a large number of thread types and sizes used on Land rovers over the time, so there would be a nut size and type that would fix the problem. I think that grinding the nut to suit would be the wrong way to rectify the problem.

The early reversible nuts, were actually proud of the stud by about that much from the factory, therefore if that is the case with your vehicle, whoever inspected it would have egg on their face .

Cheers Arthur

[Scouse]

Even brand new Defenders with the bigger steel wheels have the same nut/stud appearance.
Would a picture of one help your cause?

[spudboy]

You can change your wheel studs to the longer ones (e.g. Britpart part No: FRC7577) by banging out the old ones and putting in longer ones. Apparently you can do this with the hubs still on the car.

Or, you could put on the standard rims to get through the blue slip, and then go back to the wolfs.....

Pretty bad luck to get pinged for that though :(

[87County]

sounds like the blueslipper tried hard to get you on something - AFAIK all 110s (& 109s ?) have wheel nuts that extend minimally beyond the stud as standard - as JD says it protects the threads

better see a competent blueslipper, preferably one who knows LRs

[spudboy]

Like this - I presume?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v384/western214h/IMG_0345.jpg


M16 Wheel Stud Applications -


Part Number Thread x Pitch x Length Model and Chassis Numbers

FRC7577 M16 x 1.5mm x 54mm Defender XD (Wolf), Armoured & Heavy Duty 110/130

FRC6137 M16 x 1.5mm x 39mm Defender to (V) KA930455 (Disc/Drum)

FRC5926 M16 x 1.5mm x 39mm Defender from (V) LA930456 to (V) 2A631135 (Disc/Disc) Discovery from (V) FA393361 to (V) WA799999 Range Rover Classic from (V) CA to (V) HA610293 Range Rover Classic from (V) JA610294

RUF000020 M16 x 1.5mm x 39mm Defender from (V) 2A631136 (Disc/Disc)

RUF500010 M16 x 1.5mm x 39mm Defender from (V) 7A000001 (Disc/Disc)


Note: FRC5926 has been superseded by RUF000020

[rar110]

I had the longer studs fitted after getting wolf rims. I think early 110 wheel studs might be a few mm longer than defender ones as thread was showing less on the county front axle compared to my defender disc brake rear axle.

[wouldbeowner]

Like this - I presume?


Yes, exactly like that. The Blueslipper pointed out that the wheel nutes probably were like that from new and he realised that it seemed harsh but, as he pointed out, the criteria he is reqd to test on are written and in this case the wheel nuts dont comply with the written reqts.
Is anyone who reads this familiar with Blue Slip inspections at a professional level?
If so, does the fact that an original, and at that stage legal, design feature is now proscribed by NSW RTA regulations mean that it is now failed in an inspection?

[dullbird]

I dont think they can fail it if the car was around before those regs were bought in...if that was the case anyone getting an early series blue slipped would fail for not having complaint seat belts..

I would also be calling him and asking him which section of the ADR's he has failed it under so you can look it up yourself

[wouldbeowner]

Based on all your replies I rang up an RTA technical inspector and asked about this. He said that the wording was very specific. It says that if "any part of the thread is not engaged" then the setup would not be compliant.
It does not make any mention of the wheel nut itself protruding - just that the thread is fully engaged. He suggested I go back to the examiner and discuss - sounds reasonable.
Based on that advice the wheelnuts in the picture posted by spudboy are 100% compliant as none of the thread is disengaged.
I will keep you posted.
Thanks
Tim

[vnx205]

It says that if "any part of the thread is not engaged" then the setup would not be compliant.

That would make it appear that the issue is not whether the nut is deeper than the thread, but whether all of the available thread is engaged.

In that case, the intent of the regulation makes sense. Imagine an extreme case where the nut has about ten threads, but nine of them sit outside the end of the stud. Using only one thread to hold the wheel when the manufacturer provided ten would obviously be unsafe.

Regulations preferably need to be written so that they are clear, unambiguous and not open to subjective judgement. A regulation that required the inspector to decide for himself if there was enough thread still holding the wheel on would not be a good idea.

However, I can see a way that someone who wanted to live dangerously could circumvent the intention of the regulation, yet still comply with the letter of the law. :)

[lambrover]

Put capped nuts on then you can't see the thread

[wouldbeowner]

Put capped nuts on then you can't see the thread
Can you get these for the defender?

[Utemad]

Using mag wheel nuts such as on a Disco1 would work for the capped wheel nut idea as they can be used on steel wheels too.

[Tusker]

Seem to recall Ford being embarrassed with just this issue, on the release of the XD Falcon. New design, got knocked back for rego at press release time.

Protruding nuts just like this - something to do with the tension not being even all along the nut threads.

Regards
Max P

[frantic]

I had this as a fail when I did a blue slip on my old SIII 88in about 10 years ago so all we did was gring the top off the wheel nuts so they where about 5mm shorter, stupid rule but he insisted on following it.
I also stated the same to him that how can you tell if a capped nut is fully engaged which stumped him.
You could use the wheel nuts of a newer defender extreme with the boost alloys as they are all capped , get it past rego and then put back on the steel wheel nuts. I think you can get them from evilbay or LRA in Vic.

[isuzurover]

Alternately there are longer studs available (late 130 I believe).

However, I have had multiple landies through the RWC process in multiple states (my 110 lived in NSW from 1987-2000). The wheel nut issue was commented on once by one inspector in QLD (saying technically the issue was a fail), however it has never been knocked back on that.

[Scouse]

Alternately there are longer studs available (late 130 I believe).

All the current Defenders with the 6.5" steel wheels have the same appearance.

[isuzurover]

All the current Defenders with the 6.5" steel wheels have the same appearance.

Thanks.

The extended studs are FRC7577. Seems they were only OEM on military models.

But at ~$5GBP each + shipping = an expensive way to appease the RWC guy.

[PaulMc0308]

All Defender Wheel Studs, with the exception of FRC7577, are all the same length.

Even the 'Wolf' HS (XD) vehicle has the standard length Wheel Studs fitted.

The effective length of the Stud, i.e. the amount of thread that goes through the Nave Plate of the Wheel Rim and the Wheel Nut, is slightly longer on later hubs fitted to Disc/Disc vehicles onwards, because the hub flange that they are pressed into is slightly thinner than the hub flange on earlier Disc/Drum vehicles.

Have a look at these threads on LR4x4 -

Wheel stud replacement - LR4x4 - The Land Rover Forum (http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php'showtopic=29959)

Longer studs - LR4x4 - The Land Rover Forum (http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php'showtopic=19338)

New wheels too thick - LR4x4 - The Land Rover Forum (http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php'showtopic=34407)

Probably a Stupid Question - LR4x4 - The Land Rover Forum (http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php'showtopic=64832)


The British Army has retro-fitted Tubeless 'Wolf' Rims to all of it's Defender (and pre-Defender 90/110) fleet.

In doing this, they have not fitted longer Wheel Studs to Disc/Drum vehicles.

What they have done, in consultation with Land Rover, is to revise the Torque Settings for the Wheel Nuts.

This quote is from the British Army 'KiT!' Magazine -

"The wheel studs do not protrude through the wheel nuts when the wolf wheels are fitted - this is due to the heavier construction of the rim. Perfectly legal, this modification has been authorised by Land Rover and was fitted to the original SNATCH vehicles in exactly the same manner."

Full article, on P.27, here -

http://www2.armynet.mod.uk/linkedfilesANOpen/armysafety/kit68_lo_res.pdf


There's also an article on the correct torquing sequence, on P.26, here -

http://www2.armynet.mod.uk/linkedfilesANOpen/armysafety/kit69.pdf



If you're interested, 'KiT!' Magazines ("The quarterly guide to equipment care in bite size chunks") dating back to 2005 can be downloaded from here -

KiT! Magazine (http://www2.armynet.mod.uk/armysafety/kit_mag.htm)


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