What to buy? (I know this might open a can of worms)

[Dougie81]

Hi all.

Ok I've made my mind up - I want a dual cab defender.

So the big question is what year do you all recommend (and what year should I avoid!) and why?

I won't even put price into the debate.

- And yes, I am ready for 20000 different answers! :D

Cheers everyone.

[Phoenix12]

Thats easy................Brand New !!

Build it up the way you want it, iron out all the "glitches", and then add to it and add to it and add to it - you get the idea.......

[isuzutoo-eh]

Dual cab as in 130 with tray or high cap tub, or dual cab as in 110 styleside ute?
The factory 110 dual cabs have only been available in the last 2 years or so.

[Dougie81]

Sorry I should have been more specific; 130 dual cab with tub.

[abaddonxi]

I worked out that if you bought one at the runout price - $40k a while back - and then compared it to buying a well maintained late 300tdi (96-98 say) or early Td5. At the end of three years you would have spent about the same money and you'll have a vehicle with a greater resale value than the second hand purchase.

Reckoning that you can't get a decent 130 for less than $14k and spending a minimum of $2500, optimistic, per year maintenance.

[weeds]

budget??

[Offender90]

I suspect you will know best what is the most suitable for you. To help tease out your preferences, ask yourself the following questions

1.) What is the intended purpose of the vehicle
- how much weight do you envisage the vehicle to carry (typical and maximum)?
- how much on-road vs off road travel do you anticipate?
- is it going to be your primary mode of transport or work/touring/weekend use vehicle?
- is it just for you, you and your better half, or for the whole family?

2.) How handy are you with a spanner or conversely, how handy do you want to be with a spanner
- do you envisage maintaining the truck yourself, or will you get it done at a garage (are you a tinkerer)?
- how much do you value your time?
- how much garage space do you have?
- how understanding is your better half?

3.) What is your timeframe for buying a vehicle and what price did you have in mind?
- If / when the bug bites, you will undoubtedly want to customise /accessorise the truck. You may want to work out what (you think) you want and factor that in when comparing prices
- If you're buying new, you will likely be paying full price for the accessories you want. Buying 2nd hand on the other hand, you will get any fitted accessories at a (sometimes significant) discount. The downside is that finding the right combination of what you want is a time consuming process, and you usually have to compromise. You may also have to do some maintenance /repairs, which can get costly if you're not doing it yourself.

4.) How long do you intend to keep it for?

To illustrate with an example, both my 4WD's are secondary vehicles, so I can afford not to have them running all the time.

I have a 120 that I'm setting up for touring, potentially in remote areas, so the emphasis is on a rugged setup that is reliable, versatile and easy to fix / maintain. Comfort is secondary to functionality. Doing all the work myslef means I get to know the car, learn about car mechanics and save some money. If/when something breaks down, it means I know what to look for and how to fix it. On the downside, I do sink a lot of time into it. If I had a young family, I would value my spare time a lot more, and that would not be an option.

I also have a 90 that is a weekend / tinker toy. Over the last 3 years that I have owned both of them, on average I've had at least one on the road for about 2 years. If they were my primary mode of transport, that would not be an option.

Because I intend to keep them forever, I'm not that fussed about resale value. If I was to sell them however, I'd likely recoup all the money I've sunk into them (not valuing my time at all).

Nehow, that's something to get you thinking - let us know what your preferences are.

Cheers

Bojan

[Dougie81]

Hey Bojan thanks for the info mate -

This might make you laugh but I have (pratically) no mechanic capabilties at all. The main reason I am thinking Defender is me and the missus are starting a family (so I need a dual cab for our trips) and I'm a chippy (so I need a ute).

I have a cruiser at the moment, but as I'm sure you know - no dual cab option other than a custom setup and all the other dual cabs (hilux, triton etc) are just not my cup of tea.

Going by your information (about spare time) and a previous reply that the average maintenance costs are around $2500 per year (guessing if that's doing the work yourself) it's starting to seem like a Defender may not be a great option if my time is taken up with a new bub and I don't know a great deal about mechanics?

[incisor]

like all 4wd's, if you cant do much in the way of mechanical work on it yourself then you need a proportionally bigger wallet :p

they all break and they can all cost a bomb to repair at times...

[Michael2]

Hi Dougie,

also factor in, that if you're a chippy, the 130 will b 100% Tax deductible for fuel, maintenance and accessories. Factor in that it's a work vehicle, a family car, a hobby and a family holiday, then it's not such an expensive exercise.

Have a look at one, and you'll see that there's not much in them, so there's not a lot to learn to fix. Preventative maintenance, such as regular servicing, good suspension etc will save a lot of hassle. For the mechanically simple, I'd look at a 300Tdi. That way you get the car, the accessories and the tools you need, for the price of a later car.

[Offender90]

Hey Bojan thanks for the info mate -

This might make you laugh but I have (pratically) no mechanic capabilties at all. The main reason I am thinking Defender is me and the missus are starting a family (so I need a dual cab for our trips) and I'm a chippy (so I need a ute).

I have a cruiser at the moment, but as I'm sure you know - no dual cab option other than a custom setup and all the other dual cabs (hilux, triton etc) are just not my cup of tea.

Going by your information (about spare time) and a previous reply that the average maintenance costs are around $2500 per year (guessing if that's doing the work yourself) it's starting to seem like a Defender may not be a great option if my time is taken up with a new bub and I don't know a great deal about mechanics?

Neither did I - AULRO and AULROians have been a great source of information. Most of what I know I've learned alongside others, more often than not fixing my truck(s)!

Thanks Ben! ;)

Given it's primary purpose will be business, I'd probably go brand new - you get most tax breaks with new vehicles and you have 3 years waranty to sort out any niggling issues (of which there can be a few I understand). I would ask what happens if/when your truck has to go back to the dealer. If they won't / cant provide a replacement, I'd look for a well sorted Td5, which would have most issues ironed out, and likely offer trouble free motoring for years to come.

Having never owned a TD5 or a Puma, I can't speak of maintenance costs, however $2500 a year seems a touch high (unless it also incluides insurance / rego and other such costs). Well looked after, it generally only requires maintenance - and $2500 buys a hell of a lot of oil. I'm sure you'll get plenty of other (experience based) advice on maintenance costs.

In any case, I don't see it being any more or less costly than maintaining a Cruiser.

Best of luck with your decision.

[big guy]

There is a bargain 130 on Carsales for $77k.

I suggest you have a drive in a couple before you commit as they are a very different beast and do not suit every body.

I tried to go down that path but could not live with the seating, cooling or lack there of and the turning circle.

I still love them but just not right for me

[gconran]

There is a bargain 130 on Carsales for $77k.

I suggest you have a drive in a couple before you commit as they are a very different beast and do not suit every body.

I tried to go down that path but could not live with the seating, cooling or lack there of and the turning circle.

I still love them but just not right for me

I saw that! Flipping classic! I know there is a lot of work done on it... but $77K?!?!?!?!?

[akelly]

I have a 99 130 TD5, if I was to go again (and I will) I would look for an 02 TD5 with the salisbury diff. Mainly so I could flash the ECU and fit cruise control!

Dont worry about servicing costs too much - if you have the servicing done per the intervals in the book you will be fine (if you start with a good one). I used to be a mechanic but really the only stuff I do on my 130 and disco (both TD5) is a bit of preventative maintenance, brake pads and stuff like that - nothing technical. If they need proper fixing I take them to get fixed - as a tradie (and a new Dad) you would know that its just not worth your time to do it yourself.

A brand-newie would be nice if you had the cash to spend.

Cheers,

Adam

[newhue]

Dougie,

Lease one. It's around $900 per month, and you have a few choices with 2 or 3 year terms, and retainers. BMW do the fiance and its quite competitive. You get that 3yr/100 000klm warranty as well so that good. But wait there more, air con that works, and a car that gets along quite well.
Unfortunately if it doesn't work the replacement is usually a Freelander, still with the back seats down it's amazing how much stuff you can jamb into a loaner.

As a work truck if you put stuff on the roof they can be quite high, bit of a bugger to tie down but no more than a cruiser. If you work tight streets they take a bit, well a lot of tooing and frowing to get in and out.

I ended up with new because my mechanical knowledge is limited, along with space and time. And having a young family I just could not re build a older rig, though liked the idea, the reality was different.

[Chucaro]

My dream will be rebuilding a 130 twin cab and instal an Isuzu 3.9 on it. :cool:

[newhue]

My dream will be rebuilding a 130 twin cab and instal an Isuzu 3.9 on it. :cool:

yes yes yes
turboed

[abaddonxi]

<snip>

Going by your information (about spare time) and a previous reply that the average maintenance costs are around $2500 per year (guessing if that's doing the work yourself) it's starting to seem like a Defender may not be a great option if my time is taken up with a new bub and I don't know a great deal about mechanics?

Just having a thinking about $2500 per year. That figure is based on a very generous division of m receipts for five years of owning a 1996 Defender 130, and something I read in an NRMA mag a while back.

Starting with a ten year old vehicle in good condition but not serviced by a specialist Land Rover mechanic.

In three years of ownership I'd reckon that you spend something like this-
$1250+ At least one set of tyres
$1000 Front and Rear brake pads and rotors
$300 Front and Rear brake pads
$1000 Radiator and hoses replaced
$300 Clutch Master and Slave cylinder
$1100 Timing Belt and Bearing replaced
$3000 2 Services per year - oil, filters, etc.
$1200 Front end - wheel bearings, swivel pins, maybe a CV joint
$400 Replace axle drive member/flanges front and rear
$150 Fuel lift pump
$1200 Clutch

Total
$10,900

On top of that I'd reckon in that time you'd have one major component failure - steering box, fuel injection pump, air con, gearbox, transfer case, head gasket, etc. setting you back anything from $1000-$4500

The above are a combination of actual costs and numbers pulled out of the air from having bought the parts and done it myself. The prices would be for getting it done rather than doing it yourself.

I'm sure that the more experienced will have a better idea of actual components and costs, but I don't think I'm too far off. It'll be interesting to see comments.:D

[Michael2]

Just having a thinking about $2500 per year. That figure is based on a very generous division of m receipts for five years of owning a 1996 Defender 130, and something I read in an NRMA mag a while back.

Starting with a ten year old vehicle in good condition but not serviced by a specialist Land Rover mechanic.

In three years of ownership I'd reckon that you spend something like this-
$1250+ At least one set of tyres
$1000 Front and Rear brake pads and rotors
$300 Front and Rear brake pads
$1000 Radiator and hoses replaced
$300 Clutch Master and Slave cylinder
$1100 Timing Belt and Bearing replaced
$3000 2 Services per year - oil, filters, etc.
$1200 Front end - wheel bearings, swivel pins, maybe a CV joint
$400 Replace axle drive member/flanges front and rear
$150 Fuel lift pump
$1200 Clutch

Total
$10,900

On top of that I'd reckon in that time you'd have one major component failure - steering box, fuel injection pump, air con, gearbox, transfer case, head gasket, etc. setting you back anything from $1000-$4500

The above are a combination of actual costs and numbers pulled out of the air from having bought the parts and done it myself. The prices would be for getting it done rather than doing it yourself.

I'm sure that the more experienced will have a better idea of actual components and costs, but I don't think I'm too far off. It'll be interesting to see comments.:D

[ouch!!

Here are some actual cost for doing the work yourself. Buying oil in bulk (20 litre drums from Penrite wholesale outlet). And buying some parts locally & others from the UK.

$700 set of tyres (I shopped around for Maxxis 751s locally, but you can pay less by importing tyres from the US now)
$140 Front and Rear brake pads (less if you import)
$120 Clutch Master and Slave cylinder (local retail prices)
$300 Timing Belt and Bearing replaced (I bought a spare timing belt kit - Dayco - ex UK for about $60AUD. The timing cover bearing may be more expensive if you buy a new timing cover with it - which I did last time)
$400 4 Services per year - oil, filters, etc. [Filter Kits (Oil, Air, Fuel) work out at about $30AUD per kit, including frieght if you order from UK]
$70 Fuel lift pump (local retail price)
$150-$350 Clutch (I did my clutch - bought locally a couple of years ago for $350. I just bought a H/Duty Defender clutch kit & fork for a 300Tdi for a mates Disco 1 from the UK for under $150 delivered.

I've got a couple of friends with Defenders, so major jobs like clutch & timing belt, or pressing out suspension bushes, are done as a team effort, otherwise all the small stuff you can do on your own.