D3/RRS Servicing Costs

[101RRS]

My RRS is just coming up to 47,000km so went down to the local dealer to find out the cost of the 48,000km service and to book in.

I understand the service is a basic service covering oils and lubricants and the fuel and pollen filters are changed as well as the coolant. The quote is $805 and the service will take 2.5 hours.

Seems a lot for a basic service - what have others paid for a 48,000km service?

This will be the first time my car will have seen a dealer since it was sold new so I assume that various software updates have not been done (I had all recalls done in December). So I asked about the cost of doing software updates for the gearbox - just to connect to the computer is $150 before anything is updated - then the clock starts ticking - not sure what theb hourly rate is to be connected to the computer.

While I do not need to get the oil changed in the gearbox at this time - they charge $1700 for this including parts:(. I asked if this included a mega flush but the guy did not know what that was - the price is just a oil change and replace the plastic sump etc. When it is time I think I will have to look at alternative service providers.

Can someone please confirm that the main advantage in replacing the plastic sump on the gearbox with a metal one from a Territory is so that future oil changes/flushes can be done without removing the sump???

Thanks

Garry

[sniegy]

Garry,
48K is the first major service of its life.
12K Minor, 24K Inter, 36K Minor, 48K Major, 60K Minor, 72K Inter (incl brake fluid flush as is 3yrs old) 84K Minor, 96K Major & so on.
Get your hands on a service schedule.
48K includes:-
Change Engine oil & Filter.
Pollen Filter.
Fuel Filter.
This is what the vehicle is due for.
Remember that a lot of the fluids in the vehicle are long lasting.

Gearbox schedule service is 240K Km's
Unfortunately this is not true for Australia, we find that the fluid is best changed around the 84K mark (while doing a minor service).
We charge just under $1000.00 for the gearbox service, which includes the new sump (steel) filter & oil.
The main reason you sort of have correct is that when servicing in future, the sump still needs to come off, but is far easier (read time saving, more money in your pocket) as you dont have to remove an engine mount, remove chassis brace/cross memeber & then jack the engine up!

HTH Cheers

[Neil P]

My RRS is just coming up to 47,000km so went down to the local dealer to find out the cost of the 48,000km service and to book in.

Are you on a CM programme or paying for all this out of net income ?
If it's the former , then who cares about the cost , but if it's the
latter then just change the engine oil/filter at an Indy and forget the rest
of the scam ............

[Mike_S]

At those prices I think I might be packing a few service spares in the boot of mine if I bring it over :o Mind you, the UK service intervals are much longer than yours, different operating conditions though I guess.

Mine's just had a gearbox oil change, not a flush though. It's made a noticeable difference to the gear selection, so it's certainly something I'll be doing again in the future. I'm not so convinced on the 'flushing' idea though, especially considering the price of the oil, it must be made of unicorn spit to be that costly.

Sniegy, where in Melbourne do you work ? Might be useful for me to know....:D

[petera]

:othank the Almighty i got the corporate deal!

[101RRS]

Get your hands on a service schedule.
48K includes:-
Change Engine oil & Filter.
Pollen Filter.
Fuel Filter.
This is what the vehicle is due for.


HTH Cheers

Where can I get this - from the Topix site (is not working at the moment)

As the service is only 2.5hours ($350 in labour) - just under $500 for oil, filters and coolant seems a bit excessive.

I might try for other quotes.

Thanks

Garry

[101RRS]

At those prices I think I might be packing a few service spares in the boot of mine if I bring it over :o

Don't fall into the currency conversion trap - at the moment $1 is buying about 60p with the high aussie dollar - the natural conversion is about $1 to 40p so that is more realistic conversion rate to work on for the long term. Great for us buying stuff in the UK. The AUD will come back down before too long and start moving back to its natural rate.

By the way the rate has not been so good for us since the the aussie was deregulated in the early 80s when I was in the UK - was able to pick up a 10yo V12 Etype for $7000 (still got it in bits) back then.

[p38arover]

Where can I get this - from the Topix site (is not working at the moment)

'Tis now, I'm logged on.

[101RRS]

'Tis now, I'm logged on.

Still not working for me with either Firefox or IE.

[p38arover]

Still OK for me with IE.

PM your year, model, and VIN and what you want and I'll download it.

[p38arover]

Garry, has your subscription expired?

[p38arover]

Garry, is this what you need?

[dangermousehouse]

Garrycol,

I use this schedule, downloaded from the Disco3 website.

[p38arover]

Garrycol,

I use this schedule, downloaded from the Disco3 website.

I note that's in miles not km.

Neither of them show the transmission interval change suggested by Sniegy:



Gearbox schedule service is 240K Km's
Unfortunately this is not true for Australia, we find that the fluid is best changed around the 84K mark (while doing a minor service).


I should go back in to Topix to see if I can find a sheet that is Aust specific.

[p38arover]

This is the one shown for Australia but it still shows 240,000km for the trans.

[Wilbur]

This is the one shown for Australia but it still shows 240,000km for the trans.

Hmm, very interesting.......

When I ordered my D4 I asked the dealer about servicing. He claimed that the 'minor' (12,000K, 36,000K, 60,000K) services were an "inspection only" service and were optional as far as warranty went.

Could the D4 be so different to the D3 or is this another case of dealer BS?

Cheers all,
Paul

[101RRS]

Thanks to Ron and Dangermouse for your efforts. What I was after.

I was going to log on to Topix and pay to download the lot but I cannot still get onto the site even if I google it and try to go in that way - I will try my other computer later and see what happens. The laptop I use does from time to time lock me out of sites but googling them normally works.

As far as a subscription - I do not have one at the moment but am a registered user - even if you are not a registered user it should let you to get to the home page to either log in or register.

Thanks

Garry

[sniegy]

I note that's in miles not km.
Neither of them show the transmission interval change suggested by Sniegy:
I should go back in to Topix to see if I can find a sheet that is Aust specific.
Ron the PDF that you have is the correct one, I think we have a misunderstanding in that the service schedule IS 240,000km's for the auto service, but we "recommend" that it be done sooner.

Hope this clears this up. ;)

Cheers

[sniegy]

Sniegy, where in Melbourne do you work ? Might be useful for me to know....:D

Melbourne City Land Rover:p
Now you know, you might not visit..
If ever in Melbourne feel free to drop in, & thats everyone.

[101RRS]

Pricing for the service seems awfully high given the parts used. So looking at options. I am very mechanically minded and normally service my own vehicles but the RRS is new to me.

Is there anything special about changing



the oil filter?



the fuel filter?
the pollen filter?

The service schedule also indicates the brake fluid should be changed every three years - same as any other car or is there something special.

The service schedule also indicates the coolant is to be changed only every 10 years - seems a bit long - I thought long life fluid was every 5 years.

Also it has the air filter about every 110,000km - I would have every 40,000km for town type usage.

I will download the workshop manual when I get my download back. Resetting my modem allowed me to log onto Topix.

Thanks

Garry

[Jamo]

Oil filter's easy. Pull off the plastic cover over the engine and it's there on top at the centre rear. Unscrew the housing and remove the filter. Sometimes you need to use a screwdriver or similar just to lever out the filter.

When putting in the new one put the filter onto the base first making sure the little spigot goes in the hole; and then put on the housing - 25Nm.

Pollen filter is above/behind the glovebox and is also relatively easy to replace, although can be stubborn to get out.

Don't know about the fuel filter as I didn't ever do it myself.

[Mike_S]

For what they cost (£17 from LR here) and how quickly they can be changed, I used to change the air filter at every service. I've replaced it with a K&N panel filter now, cost the same as 2 filters from LR so made sense.

Oil filter on mine (4.4 V8) is a royal pain in the arse to get at, the mantec guard has to be removed to access it. It's been left unchanged twice now by main dealer's because of that, much to my annoyance.

Can't help with the brake & coolant changes sorry. Can't see the coolant being a huge problem to change, I'm wary of changing brake fluid though, I'd much rather have that done properly.

[101RRS]

Seems there is nothing I cannot do myself for this 48,000km service - though Ultra Tune can do it for $450 which is not bad - if they do the right job.

The car does not seem to have to go on the computer as there are no fault lights showing BUT the service indicator will have to be reset. I assume this means it does have to be done my the computer and neither myself or Ultra tune (I assume) cannot do this. If I am wrong - how can it be reset via the onboard systems? Also if not reset what annoying indicator/gong am I going to get?

Also I am going to download the manual from Topix - I assume I need to select 'All Documents" - single model etc - how long a subscription do I need to buy to download the manual? 1 day or 1 week?? I have ADSL2+ that runs about half speed.

Garry

[Neil P]

... the Mantec guard has to be removed to access it. It's been left unchanged twice now by main dealer's because of that, much to my annoyance.

..

That Dealer's a scumbag . My guy removes the Mantec in a flash , but I
go to a real LandRover 'shop . I'd have found another place without
******* , Mike

[Neil P]

- how can it be reset via the onboard systems? Also if not reset what annoying indicator/gong am I going to get?



Forget the indicator , it's just a day-clock !
It only shows at start-up , and then it's gone .......
You cab buy a resetter from BBS , but why bother.
I love watching how "past the date" these indicators
can be on Taxis. LMAO !

[101RRS]

You cab buy a resetter from BBS , but why bother.


BBS ??

Thanks for the information.

Garry

[Neil P]

Blackbox Solutions Ltd. -- Products Page (http://www.blackbox-solutions.com/products.html)

50 Euros plus DHL

[TDV6]

Already supplied by previous post.

Ryall

[dangermousehouse]

Garrycol,

I took mine to a main dealer for a basic service, pretty much as I wanted to keep the fully stamped book up to date.

I was quoted $450 ish (which wasn't much more than the Indy garage) plus it included free use of the courtesy car. So in she went.....

When I picked it up the bill was $750!! This included a wheel alignment and a fault diagnosis. Bloody hell!

Now, I know dealerships need to make money, but charging $120 for reading a fault is taking the p*** in my opinion.

I'm pretty handy on the spanners, too, and will now service it meself in future. (Had I done this in the first place, I would have had change left over for a fault mate).

Anyways, service it yourself. You'll feel more confident that you know what is going on with the vehicle, too.

It can't be any harder than my Series 3 diesel, which is a real pain in the testicles!

[dangermousehouse]

Forgot to add this link which'll help you, too.

Maintenance - DISCO3.CO.UK Knowledge Base (http://www.disco3.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Maintenance)

[ivery819]

G'Day Garry
Just a few observations:
# If you log into topix with your VIN you will get a list of what upgrades/mods your particular vehicle still requires. Obviously this is dependent on the dealer service records.
#The local Canberra dealer has changed my gearbox oil which transformed the performance of the gearbox ! They used (Landrover approved ) Castrol oil at about $100 for the fill rather than the 'book' oil which was $750 and hard to get.
#There is only ONE oil available for the transfer case and it's about $165 for 1.5 litres. It is essential to change this regularly if you are operating off road, especially in muddy water because the output shaft seals allow debris to enter the housing.
# For 60k Km. I've had the vehicle serviced in Canberra according to the 'Off road use" schedule. I have never paid more than $700-00 for any standard service (and yes, I have checked that the work has been done )

[dangermousehouse]

Ivery819,

Slightly off topic, but do you know the part no. for the Landrover approved Castrol oil?

I thought there was only one type (the $750 per fill type) and anything else was asking for trouble???

[101RRS]

G'Day Garry
Just a few observations:
# If you log into topix with your VIN you will get a list of what upgrades/mods your particular vehicle still requires. Obviously this is dependent on the dealer service records.
Familiar with TOPix and mine is all up to date.

#The local Canberra dealer has changed my gearbox oil which transformed the performance of the gearbox ! They used (Landrover approved ) Castrol oil at about $100 for the fill rather than the 'book' oil which was $750 and hard to get.
The Canberra dealer has no idea about the gearboxes - they have never heard of mega flushes nor replacing the plastic sump with a metal one. If you just change the oil as they do half the old oil stays in the gearbox/torque converter - also they quoted me $1500 to change the gearbox oil - thankfully I do not need it yet but when it is due the car will not be going to this dealer.

#There is only ONE oil available for the transfer case and it's about $165 for 1.5 litres. It is essential to change this regularly if you are operating off road, especially in muddy water because the output shaft seals allow debris to enter the housing.
Thanks for that good information.

# For 60k Km. I've had the vehicle serviced in Canberra according to the 'Off road use" schedule. I have never paid more than $700-00 for any standard service (and yes, I have checked that the work has been done )
Well they have quoted me over $800 for a 48,000km service and that does not include the required brake fluid change - I have costed labour and parts and they are charging about $300 more than the components. I do not mind paying to get services done but when there is unreasonable profit taking - no thanks.


Thanks for that information - my comments are in red.

Clearly you have a different experience to mine. I was in Newcastle last week and asked similar questions of the dealer there. They are $150 cheaper on the service and charge $80 to put the car on the computer where the Canberra one wants $150.

Unless in an emergency - the local dealer will not be seeing my car.

Cheers

Garry

[Neil P]

I took mine to a main dealer for a basic service, pretty much as I wanted to keep the fully stamped book up to date.

I was quoted $450 ish (which wasn't much more than the Indy garage) plus it included free use of the courtesy car. So in she went.....

When I picked it up the bill was $750!! This included a wheel alignment and a fault diagnosis. Bloody hell!

Now, I know dealerships need to make money, but charging $120 for reading a fault is taking the p*** in my opinion.


Very "free use" of the courtesy car :mad:
Try British Off Road. The diagnostic IS the service WTF !
As for alignment , Small Claims Court ...............

[Neil P]

#The local Canberra dealer has changed my gearbox oil which transformed the performance of the gearbox ! They used (Landrover approved ) Castrol oil at about $100 for the fill rather than the 'book' oil which was $750 and hard to get.


Which oil is that ? This is news to ZF box owners ................

[ivery819]

The story went like this:
We ended up with the gearbox oil empty (don't ask ! ). When trying to find the refill oil we were made aware of the cost and even better still that none was available in Canberra, Sydney and Melbourne. The dealer service manager made the observation that this is the same box used in various other ( none Land rover) vehicles and that there is a Castrol oil used. At my instance he rang Land Rover and confirmed, in my presence,(speaker phones are marvellous) that use of this oil (invoiced to me as Castrol Transmax R ) would not void the factory warranty. I would suggest that you make your own inquiries before taking this path !
As far as the transfer case oil is concerned it is a Shell product that only Land Rover imports. It comes in one litre containers, boxed as Land Rover parts. Shell Australia denied any knowledge of it and I couldn't find any other local oil manufacturer that was prepared to offer a substitute.

[Ean Austral]

The ZF gearbox oil is also made by shell, but you will find the same answer.

We have ZF gearbox in our trawler and I spoke to the ZF dealer and in conversation mentioned the ZF oil for L/R gearbox, This he told me is a Shell oil re-packaged into ZF containers, I am hoping to bribe him with some prawns next time in town to find out the shell part #.

I must say that I am not surprised there is another brand of oil, and if the gearbox is the same as the Ford Territory/Falcon does anyone know what oil they use.

Cheers Ean

[Ean Austral]

G'Day Garry
Just a few observations:
# If you log into topix with your VIN you will get a list of what upgrades/mods your particular vehicle still requires. Obviously this is dependent on the dealer service records.
#The local Canberra dealer has changed my gearbox oil which transformed the performance of the gearbox ! They used (Landrover approved ) Castrol oil at about $100 for the fill rather than the 'book' oil which was $750 and hard to get.
#There is only ONE oil available for the transfer case and it's about $165 for 1.5 litres. It is essential to change this regularly if you are operating off road, especially in muddy water because the output shaft seals allow debris to enter the housing.
# For 60k Km. I've had the vehicle serviced in Canberra according to the 'Off road use" schedule. I have never paid more than $700-00 for any standard service (and yes, I have checked that the work has been done )

Bloody Landrover, cant get over that they have the audacity to charge over $100 a ltr for transfer case oil, that only they can supply..thats got to be criminal, whats in it ****ing Gold.

The D3 aint that good where they can charge that sort of robbery.:mad::mad:

Cheers Ean

[outbacktourer]

At the risk of opening a can of worms, a few minutes of internet research reveals that the spec of oil ZF recommends for the ZF 6HP28 is TE ML 11. Castrol data sheet for Castrol Transmax M claims it meets standard ZF TE ML 11.

http://www.zf.com/na/content/media/united_states/corporate_replacement_parts_1/service_portfolio/passenger_cars/6HP26-28_Catalog.pdf

http://www.tds.castrol.com.au/pdf/9591_Transmax%20M.pdf

Am I missing something?

OBT

[Ean Austral]

At the risk of opening a can of worms, a few minutes of internet research reveals that the spec of oil ZF recommends for the ZF 6HP28 is TE ML 11. Castrol data sheet for Castrol Transmax M claims it meets standard ZF TE ML 11.

http://www.zf.com/na/content/media/united_states/corporate_replacement_parts_1/service_portfolio/passenger_cars/6HP26-28_Catalog.pdf

http://www.tds.castrol.com.au/pdf/9591_Transmax%20M.pdf

Am I missing something?

OBT

Yep , that we've been getting conned the whole time.Now just fine a substatute for the transfer case oil.

Cheers Ean

[Neil P]

That Castrol M trans oil is a Dextron II class ........:confused:May your God be with you . We've been down this road before on many , many other
threads ........... The last lot to make cheap ZF oil , pulled the recommendation after box failures.

[norto]

Mine had a $7000 repair after using another brand of oil.
The repairer said that he had to repair another one at his own cost after not using the LR recommended oil.

[bbyer]

At the risk of opening a can of worms, a few minutes of internet research reveals that the spec of oil ZF recommends for the ZF 6HP28 is TE ML 11. Castrol data sheet for Castrol Transmax M claims it meets standard ZF TE ML 11.

http://www.zf.com/na/content/media/united_states/corporate_replacement_parts_1/service_portfolio/passenger_cars/6HP26-28_Catalog.pdf

http://www.tds.castrol.com.au/pdf/9591_Transmax%20M.pdf

Am I missing something?

OBT

I am certain that the Castrol Oil meets and perhaps in some ways even exceeds TE ML 11. I note that the Castrol pdf clearly says Transmax M is "fully approved to the General Motors Dextron IID specification". I take this to mean that GM allows their dealers to purchase and fill GM transmissions with Transmax M and still honours any warranty concerns.

I also see the words Ford, and Allsion, but no approval words, just "meets the requirements", kind of words. To me, what is more significant is what is not said. Missing are words such as Audi, BMW, Jaguar and one other manufacturer of significance to us. That concerns me as I think that I am being warned.

I recall a few years back a fuss in the shops when GM came out with their new transmissions and imposed what were considered to be restrictive oil specs on the trannys. That fuss has died down as the restrictions are considered normal now and the shops have learned how to profit from the rules so all involved are happy, well, except the car owner.

The very real problem we face with Land Rover is that it is not a normal vehicle. Yes, it can be a mommy mobile and grocery hauler, but not many "cars" can also balance on one wheel, swim, race, camp, crawl, haul, and are commonly seen on TV conveying kings, queens, princes, and princesses, politicians, dictators, despots, slaves, conflict journalists, (and even Aussies), and still get you to work on time. Options include various grades of armour and in your choice of colour.

As such, this is not a normal transportation module and it would not surprise me that the OEM Land Rover tranny oil meeting TE ML 11 also contained a secret star dust additive - it is priced like it so....

It is said the engine is a Jaguar derived engine, and yes it is, but not the Jag engine one finds in a Jaguar. The engine is modified to accept unusual angles, hot and cold, high and low, race speeds, parade crawls, and yet, still act and sound like nothing special.

We all drive something very unique; this kind of flexibility may just require special products and attention.

[101RRS]

Back to the original post - the local Ultratune will do the service for $307 including fluids with me providing the filters - about $120. As my car is over 3years old and has not had the brake fluid changed - this will be $79 with fluid.

He indicated that he has one other RRS as a regular client and seemed knowledgeable enough on what the requirements were. He knew what cheaper wipers and holders were required - part of the service.

I am weary of using someone like UltraTune but these guys seem knowlegeable of the service requirements so they will get a run and I will see what happens. About $500 for the entire job is much better than the dealers $900 - $1000 but there are risks.

He could not recall whether his computer equipment could reset the service indicator but did say he has used it on the RRS before to read and clear some codes but would not guarantee it can do all. So no promises there.

The car goes in next week.

Garry

[Mike_S]

I take it the main dealers aren't prepared to negotiate on price ? I've yet to have to use an indy to service mine, the main dealers here can usually be negotiated down to a level that makes them worth using when presented with the comparison costs. Last one mine had, 4 main dealers quoted £600+, indy wanted £350. Told my usual main dealer this, they came back with £399 all in so they got the job.

I'm assuming you've done this anyway, just wondered if the main dealers are in any way flexible.

[Neil P]

I 4 main dealers quoted £600+, indy wanted £350. Told my usual main dealer this, they came back with £399 all in so they got the job.

I'm assuming you've done this anyway, just wondered if the main dealers are in any way flexible. You'll have fun with that view here.
Oz is the last bastion of no competition. I've had retailers tell me to
F.O. , rather than take a cut . That's right across the consumer/service
line in this place. Find an Indy . I save over 50% !

[Disco4SE]

My advice is to use a reputable LR service agent / dealership. I have always had my vehicles serviced from the dealership that I brought them from.
I figure that if you can afford $90K or there abouts for a new set of wheels, you can afford the slight premium paid every 3 - 6 months for a piece of mind service.
Cheers, Craig

[Wilbur]

My advice is to use a reputable LR service agent / dealership. I have always had my vehicles serviced from the dealership that I brought them from.
I figure that if you can afford $90K or there abouts for a new set of wheels, you can afford the slight premium paid every 3 - 6 months for a piece of mind service.
Cheers, Craig

Sometimes I wonder about the quality of dealer service. Although I have never used dealers myself, I have twice bought Discos with full dealer service history, and in both cases there were numerous signs of "inexpert" or slack quality work. I have seen a cross-threaded bolt on a disc caliper, water in diff oil and practically non-existent brake pads on a vehicle newly returned from a service.

I have always used the one-man-band specialist private Land Rover mechanics. That way one avoids the risk of having the apprentice do the routine work on your vehicle while the head wrench does the more interesting work.

However, I am still undecided what to do when I get my new Disco 4 - my first ever new car. It seems there are regular factory updates for software etc and I presume the private mechanics will not necessarily have all that available.

Coupled to that is the issue of warranty work. How enthusiastic would a dealers workshop be to do warranty work if they have not been given the routine (high profit) regular servicing? Any thoughts anyone?

Cheers all,

Paul

[bbyer]

I am quite fortunate here in that my dealer has a good crew of competent service people. I do not particularly enjoy the flat rate billing, or by the hour, whichever is more, the full priced parts, the various shop charges that appear extra to all, however my 3 continues to run quite well - starts in the -40C and seems to stay on the road and has not had to be hauled in yet - limped in on the stops, yes, but not yet towed in.

Their shop area has about 6 service bays with lifts and a wash bay; the showroom has space for one Jaguar and one Land Rover; the other 15 new ones park outside along with 20 or so used cars parked on the lawn, all either LR or Jag.

All in all, I suppose I am happy given that fixing them for the first time appears be a real challenge, and with a D4, everything will be for the first time as LR can at times create more problems than the ones they solve. Also it seems it they get something working, they the factory decide to "improve" it.

For the most part, Land Rover products are so technically ahead of the curve that everything is slightly different than a normal vehicle - just consider the tangles we get into here over battery charging or type of oil - nothing is straight forward.

I spent Friday watching the wedding of the century - yes, I saw a beautiful girl in a very nice wedding dress, but of greater interest was what followed the Queen, or the girl in the Rolls, or the parents in the Jag. In every procession, it was just a single Range Rover, either a Sport or the FFRR and a motor cycle leading. That was it, a single RR after every Roller. Maybe there is something special about the Land Rovers we drive and perhaps they do require special ongoing care by people with at least some practice.

After looking at the number of Rollers and horse drawn carriages coming out of the Royal Mews, that has got to be quite a shop - wonder what the flat rate is there? Also the guy and girl in the DB5 looked like they were enjoying the drive - but yes, I think unless you are fortunate to have access to an independent with the skills set of the Royal Mews, that maybe it is wise to keep the local dealer happy if he is good. You just may keep your rolling investment rolling.

The link is a Google view of my local LR dealer - certainly not a Mega Store.

17404 103 Avenue Edmonton, AB - Google Maps (http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=17404+103+Avenue+Edmonton,+AB&sll=53.547052,-113.48156&sspn=0.006438,0.015407&ie=UTF8&view=map)

[101RRS]

My advice is to use a reputable LR service agent / dealership. I have always had my vehicles serviced from the dealership that I brought them from.
I figure that if you can afford $90K or there abouts for a new set of wheels, you can afford the slight premium paid every 3 - 6 months for a piece of mind service.
Cheers, Craig

Well my car is not $90K and as I am retired I do have to watch my pennies. I have costed the service out using $150 per hour labour and the actual cost of parts etc and the dealer wants a couple of hundred $$$ more. Whats more, as highlighted by Wilbur - my discussions with the dealer has not given me a high level of confidence that are on top of the knowledge curve - the Ultra Tune guy seemed to know more about the car than the dealer did.

This service is basically just an oil change so there is not a lot to go wrong - I may consider someone else if I am unhappy with this provider, particularly where the service is more complex or the car needs to go onto a computer. Eg - in about 40,000km time when I want the gearbox oil change I will go to a ZF transmission agent rather than a landrover specialist.

Unfortunately the local Landrover service agents do not have a good reputation so there are not a lot of options for genuine service agents.

Garry

[bbyer]

This service is basically just an oil change so there is not a lot to go wrong. Garry

It sounds like in your case, the independent is more qualified than the local dealer, very possible, and given your dealer reality, you are fortunate.

Re the oil change, the oil pan on the engine of my 4.4L V8 petrol is plastic, as is the tranny oil pan.

In the case of my engine, a new oil drain plug, (part number 1013938), is recommended for every oil change and I get charged for such.

That annoys me however I gather the reason is that the oil seal between the metal plug and the plastic engine oil pan is not the threads, but a small rubber O ring per below. I do not know what the diesel oil pan is made of but that is the story re the petrol and why one of those quick change places would not work for me here and for an independent, I would have to bring in an oil drain plug with me.

The tranny is even a bigger story, but for that, I did go to the local ZF independent as they were the guys who for the most part, do the tranny service for my dealer.

[Neil P]

have costed the service out using $150 per hour labour and the actual cost of parts etc and the dealer wants a couple of hundred $$$ more. .......... in about 40,000km time when I want the gearbox oil change I will go to a ZF transmission agent rather than a landrover specialist.



The 30 month service ( some time ago , now ) at the LR Dealer
was about $250 p/h plus GST . That's when I spat the dummy
and started with an Indy , now at $98 p/h plus GST.
Change the tranny oil yourself . 4 litre out , and then 4 in. You'll
notice a difference with just that alone . The extra flush will
only take it to 6.5ish new oil ......... Save a packet and avoid
the 'Shop.

[Mike_S]

Looks like I'll be hunting around for a decent Indy then, or going back 10 years and doing some of the work myself ! Not an issue, I've already replaced all the brakes and can see me getting more involved !

To be fair, I like to keep myself informed on the issues & how to fix them with my own car, in 2 cases this year I've found myself more informed than the main dealer and they've taken my solutions onboard and successfully implemented them (whilst it was still covered by the extended warranty). Now that warranty has expired I'll be using my favoured indy, even though he has limited experience of the car he's prepared to sit with me and work through problems so we can both learn about it. He has direct links into LR Technical so if we do get stuck, even late at night he can make a call for advice. He has all the software and as an ex-LR tech he knows how to use it ! He'd make a fortune in Oz by the sounds of things.

Part of the problem I have is that my car spec isn't common here in the UK, mine is only the 2nd 4.4 V8 petrol my dealer had ever seen / worked on.

[101RRS]

In the case of my engine, a new oil drain plug, (part number 1013938), is recommended for every oil change and I get charged for such.



I have checked the TDV6 workshop manual and it indicates that just the washer needs to be replaced.

Garry

[bbyer]

I have checked the TDV6 workshop manual and it indicates that just the washer needs to be replaced. Garry Replacing the washer makes more sense than what I do, or my dealer does - well for him, selling parts makes more sense I guess. All you have to do is purchase a dozen or so washers then and you effectively have a few years supply for oil changes - much smarter I must say. I would have to give Land Rover Australia a gold star for making sense for once.

One question however, can you still buy the washers?

I looked up parts number from UK sources related to the gasket, LR part number 1005593, and see that it is now superseded by LR part number 1013938, which is the complete drain plug, the treaded metal bit plus the O ring per my jpg in an above post. I was also trying to find out if the oil sump for the TDV6 was metal or some sort of plastic material? I could not figure that out but somehow I think these plastic sumps and complete new drain plugs requirement are somehow related. It is probably something with wanting to start out each time with fresh clean threads so as not to overstress the treads in the oil pan. That was sort of the story my dealer gave me, but I thought the overstress bit was the drain plug, (yes, sounds silly, I know), but now I think he meant overstressing the oil pan threads, probably not so silly, and an expensive replacement.

[101RRS]

The washer thing has nothing to do with Landrover Aust - it is listed in the Workshop Manual that is the universal document.

I do not know if the washer has been replaced with something else - certainly not reflected in the manual - but surely an aftermarket washer of the correct size and material (copper crush, felt or o-ring) will do for this job of a OEM bit is not available.

Garry

[Neil P]

Pink tape ;)

[Jamo]

The very early iteration of the workshop manual required the entire drain plug to be replaced. At some stage (several years ago) they changed it to just the o-ring seal. (I had a copy of the early procedure but ditched it when i sold the D3)

[101RRS]

The car goes in for service tomorrow but it clicked over 48,000km today. On start there is no message that the service is due - so what prompts the message??? Every 12,000km or is it 12,000km from the last reset (mine was reset at about 38,500 when the last service was done), or is it something else?

Thanks

Garry

[Neil P]

They can be set to different alerts , but the standard here is 6 months ,
and at 30 days before , it starts to count down.

[Mike_S]

I was told it's mileage based the last time it was serviced. Mine's well out of kilter with the mileage schedule as the first 2 or 3 were done on time, rather than miles.

[ivery819]

Garry
Mine counts down either 6 months (in days) or 12.000 Km from the last dealer reset.
At 30 days due it shows remaining days at startup on the display. I've never clocked up enough Km's to see the distance countdown.

[Neil P]

It can even be switched off ........

[101RRS]

It can even be switched off ........

Please explain.

[Neil P]

BBS Ltd have a device ( plug-in ) to select your params from
the Canbus choice . A Dealer etc. can do the same.


The CAN-Mate SRT allows you to reset the Service Interval Indicator in your vehicle. This is a requirement on the Land Rover service check sheet that needs to be completed on every service, if your Warranty/Service History is to be kept current.

When you have finished servicing your vehicle, without the CAN-Mate SRT you will still have to go a Main Dealer or an independent specialist who has equipment like our Faultmate MSV-2 to have them reset the Service Interval Indicator for you. Of course, they will want some of your money that you have saved by doing your own service.

Alternately, you may be a person who prefers not to get their hands dirty but also doesn�t want to pay exorbitant Main Dealer prices. This is especially true when you have a small garage down the road that is more than capable of doing basic servicing, but doesn�t have access to full diagnostic equipment needed to reset the Service Interval Indicator. Therefore you can hand him your CAN-Mate SRT to allow him to complete your service to full Land Rover Specifications.

The CAN-Mate is a tool that is required for the following vehicles only:
- Discovery 3/LR3
- Range Rover Sport
- Freelander 2
- Range Rover L322 - up to MY2009 (Jaguar engine fitted only, not required for BMW)

To reset your service interval, select one the sixteen possible service intervals on the CAN-Mate SRT - a table is in the User Guide. Then simply plug it into the OBD Connector and it resets the Service Interval Indicator for you. No fuss, no palaver and more importantly, no garage fees just for two minutes work.

With intelligent use of a high intensity flashing LED, the CAN-Mate SRT will inform the user that the Service Interval reminder has been reset, or if there has been a communication error - in which case it will then also tell you the cause of that error.

When you use the CAN-Mate SRT for the first time on your vehicle, it will lock itself to your Vehicle�s VIN. This will actually help you in two ways. It is a theft deterrent as there is no point in stealing your CAN-Mate SRT.




I did have a copy of the dozen or so settings , but can't find it now .............. sorry .

[bbyer]

The car goes in for service tomorrow but it clicked over 48,000km today. On start there is no message that the service is due - so what prompts the message??? Every 12,000km or is it 12,000km from the last reset (mine was reset at about 38,500 when the last service was done), or is it something else?Thanks garry

Below is the best detailed explanation of the setting of the Service Interval Indicator. It is taken from the Faultmate /BBS link below. My experience is that the setting of such is not fully understood by some dealer service people, (for good reason), and when odd messages show, the explanation is that the reset "did not take". As explained in an above post, with the Faultmate, you can do it yourself. Also it seems not all vehicles have all the features mentioned below, depending upon how the CCF is set up.

About all I seem to have is the +and - days to service required. Also I change oil about every 6,000 km so the indicator only tends to show up when the reset "did not take".

From the link below, choose Coverage Lists and then Discovery 3 - LR3 and then click on the link line that appears at the bottom of the text box.

Blackbox Solutions Ltd. Downloads Page (http://www.blackbox-solutions.com/download/index.html)


Service Interval Indicator Settings
The Instrument Pack performs a function called the Service Interval Indicator (SII) which can be used to remind the vehicle owner / driver when the vehicle requires a service or inspection. To accomplish this, The instrument Pack holds a count of days elapsed, distance travelled and fuel used, when the vehicle had its "Last Service Reset", It then keeps a "since last service reset" count on all three of these values and should any of them exceed their allowed values, it will issue a service due reminder. This reminder can also be triggered to occur early.
A service reset event consists of taking the three "since last service reset" values, which are then be zeroed at the same time as adding their values onto the stored "last Service Reset" values. For convenience we have separated the page into sections based on Time, Distance, Fuel usage and General. The Section for Distance is based on Km which is the unit the system uses but for convenience we have also provided and additional set of Miles values which is totally derived from it's identical Km counterpart values in the previous set. All manipulation of values must be done in the KM values, and so all miles values are read only. For reference, to convert Miles to Km the Miles figure needs to be divided by.6214 and for Km to Miles, the Km figure multiplied by .6214.
Reset service interval can be done by manipulating the data in the settings page, or by selecting the function in Other. This function will use the default values and automatically calculate the days and mileage.<.br>


Settings For Service Interval Indicator Related to Time in Days

Total Current Day Count: This is the number of days that have elapsed in total from a fixed start reference point (Like the Odometer, but for days). This value cannot be edited because it is produced from adding together the Day Count at Last Service Reset and the Elapsed Days Since Last Service Reset Values.
Day Count at Last Service Reset: This is the number of days from a fixed start reference point (Like the Odometer, but for days) that had elapsed when the SII was last reset. It is used as a starting point for all calculations of the next interval reminder based on an elapsed number of days. On a service reset this value is set to a new value made up from adding it's currently shown value to the Elapsed Days Since Last Service Reset, which will be zeroed at the same time.
Days Allowed Before Next Service Due Reminder: This is the amount of days that can pass before the next service required warning is triggered due to time passed. The warning may trigger earlier by the amount of Days set in Early Reminder Days. This value is usually set to a fixed number of days, for example 365 days. If the period is exceeded without a reset of the SII values, this value will start to increment, simply adding the additional days on.
Elapsed Days Since Last Service Reset: This is a count of the amount of days that have elapsed since the last service reset. To perform a service reset, this value is reset to zero at the same time as it is added onto the Day Count at Last Service Reset Value.
Days Remaining Before Next Service Due Reminder: This is the number of days that remain before a service would be due based on the Days Allowed Before Next Service Due Reminder having elapsed since the last service reset. It cannot be edited here because it is based on the Elapsed Days Since Last Service Reset value being deducted from Days Allowed Before Next Service Due Reminder value.
Early Reminder Days: The number of days before a time elapsed based service reminder event occurs that the driver will be given an early reminder for. An early reminder event will only occur if the Early Warnings, setting is enabled. This value is typically always set to 30.
Days Remaining Before Early Service Due Reminder: This is the number of days that remain before a time elapsed based service reminder event will occur. An early reminder event will only occur if the Early Warnings, setting is enabled. This setting cannot be edited as it is calculated from deducting the Early Reminder Days from the Days Remaining Before Next Service Due Reminder.

Settings For Service Interval Indicator Related to Distance in Km.
Total Current Odometer Value: This is the current odometer value stored in the Instrument pack which is actually stored in Kilometre increments, even if it is displayed in miles. This value may vary slightly from the value shown on the Instrument Packs own display due to the odometer offset value. (the bit the dealers can hide on delivery). This value is read only and so cannot be altered
Odometer Count at Last Service Reset: The odometer value when the last service reset was performed. It is used as a starting point for all calculations of the next interval reminder based on distance travelled. On a reset this value will need to be set to match the Total Current Odometer Value. The stored value is actually divided by 100 Km which is re padded with "00" on read and display, so any amount entered below that will be lost.
Distance Allowed Before Next Service Due Reminder: This value is taken directly from the Instrument Packs CCF file which can only be altered using the CCF edit feature.
Distance Travelled Since Last Service Reset: This is a count of the distance travelled since the last service reset.
Distance Remaining Before Next Service Due Reminder: This is the distance remaining before a service would be due based on the Distance Allowed Before Next Service Due Reminder having been exceeded since the last service reset. It cannot be edited here because it is based on the Distance Travelled Since Last Service Reset value being deducted from Distance Allowed Before Next Service Due Reminder value.
Early Reminder Distance: The distance before a distance based service reminder event occurs that the driver will be given an early reminder for. An early reminder event will only occur if the Early Warnings, setting is enabled. This value is typically always set to 40.
Distance Remaining Before Early Service Due Reminder: This is the distance that remains before a distance based service reminder event will occur. An early reminder event will only occur if the Early Warnings, setting is enabled. This setting cannot be edited as it is calculated from deducting the Early Reminder Distance from the Distance Remaining Before Next Service Due Reminder.

Settings For Service Interval Indicator Related to Fuel Consumption in litres.
Last Service Reset Fuel Consumption: The Total Litre count when the last service reset was performed. It is used as a starting point for all calculations of the next interval reminder based on Fuel usage. On a reset this value would typically need to be set to its current value plus the Fuel consumed Since Last Service Reset which will be zeroed at the same time. It has been noted however that this value seems to be kept at zero, which may be indicative of it not being used as a "from the very start" type reference.
Fuel Usage Allowed Before Next Service Reset Due Reminder: This is the total amount of litres of fuel that can be consumed before the next service due reminder event is triggered due to over limit for fuel usage. It is only relevant when the fuel usage feature of the SII is used. This value is taken directly from the Instrument Packs CCF file which can only be altered using the CCF edit feature.
Fuel Consumed Since Last Service Reset: This is a count value showing the amount of litres of fuel that have been used since last service reset was performed. To perform a service reset, this value is reset to zero at the same time as it is added onto the Last Service Reset Fuel Consumption Value.
General Settings For Service Interval Indicator.
Last service type: Shows if the last service type was an Oil Change, Inspection or Periodic.
Early Warnings: Indicates if the service interval early warning function is enabled or disabled.
Periodic inspection display: Indicates if the periodic inspection display Driver alert function is enabled or disabled. When enabled the Driver will briefly be reminded of the day values leading towards a service reminder alert at every ign on.
Remaining distance display: Indicates if the remaining distance display Driver alert function is enabled or disabled. When enabled the Driver will briefly be reminded of the distance values leading towards a service reminder alert at every ign on.

[gasman]

Interesting read. I have just bought a D3s with 205ks and apparently does not show when service is due. Is this correct? and while on the subject, where can I find what needs servicing at what intervals.
One more thing, I have a shuddering when mildly accelerating uphill for instance out of a round a bout. Any clues? Had recon auto 50ks ago but may need a service?
Thanks

[Neil P]

Was you trans reoiled or repaired 50k ago ?

[gasman]

Fully rebuilt at a cost of 7k by Trivott

[bbyer]

Interesting read. I have just bought a D3s with 205ks and apparently does not show when service is due. Is this correct? and while on the subject, where can I find what needs servicing at what intervals.
One more thing, I have a shuddering when mildly accelerating uphill for instance out of a round a bout. Any clues? Had recon auto 50ks ago but may need a service? Thanks It is actually difficult to say for certain if and when you will get any service reminders as these can be set by the dealer to about any number, 30 days ahead is typical, but it could be set not to show anything. I do not know what my 3 is set at but for me, I have the dealer change oil every 6,000 km which is effectively every 3 to 4 months and have him put one of those transparent stickers up in the top corner of the windscreen as a reminder.

Re shuddering going up a hill, fortunately I have no experience with that on the 3, however with my 1992 Buick Roadmaster, (5.7L V8, gas, rear wheel drive), eventually suffered from a shudder going up certain hills. I needed a new torque converter, the jet engine like turbine round fan thing in the front of the automatic, and it was not cheap either.

Attached is a jpg of the cut away of the Ford 6R60 tranny, which is I think a licence built version of the ZF 6HP26 in our 3's. More cutaway views of the tranny, plus a whole 2005 LR3 are available in the link below. Note that there is a enlarge picture button to the bottom right of the site pictures.

The pictures can enlarge bigger than most screens so one has to scroll; as such, detail is pretty good. Ford Genuine Parts 6R60E Six Speed Automatic Transmission - Cutaway Creations (http://www.cutawaycreations.com/cutaways.php?project=ford-6r60e-six-speed-automatic-transmission-cutaway#/IMAGES/ford-6r60e-six-speed-automatic-transmission-cutaway/images/image1.jpg)

[Neil P]

Fully rebuilt at a cost of 7k by Trivott
I wouldn't have touched it . I don't buy any rebuilt anything whatsoever....... Factory fresh or to Hell with it. My 2c

[Wilbur]

I wouldn't have touched it . I don't buy any rebuilt anything whatsoever....... Factory fresh or to Hell with it. My 2c

I will second that. Too many experiences of dud work. Factory fresh can usually be trusted.

[bbyer]

I will second that. Too many experiences of dud work. Factory fresh can usually be trusted. Yes, but there is often the question of what is the norm.

It is not clear to me that the replacement OEM alternator that the Land Rover dealer sells is not actually what most would call "rebuilt". Land Rover calls it a replacement part, gives it a part number different from the original, and remains silent with respect to lineage. Jet engines are only new once, then parts keep getting replaced on some sort of timed life cycle basis and sometimes they get the new parts wrong as per the recent Rolls Royce engine concerns. The replacement parts get installed and that is the norm.

Regarding automatic transmissions, factory rebuilt is also a norm. Sometimes the factory is the shop around the corner that has some special OEM certification and hence the OEM assumes some responsibility for the work the shop does. In other cases, it comes down to luck, the reputation of the shop and the people actually doing the rebuild. Sometimes the rebuild is even better than brand new if again, you were really lucky and had good people involved.

When I was driving American vehicles, I was fortunate in that I had access to a repair shop that was good. For me, it was either factory OEM replacement parts, (whatever that meant), or rebuilt in their shop by their people. That I liked best as I felt I knew what I was getting. It is harder with Land Rover as one has to first have a source of repair parts or rebuild kits and that is not as easy as with USA vehicles. Even Toyota is I expect a problem with regards to rebuild kit parts.

[gasman]

I have to agree with BByer as that is the "norm" when it come to ZFs apparently. No new, just re-manufactured is the term.

Anyone know of a good ZF mech who can have a look at it?

[gasman]

I gotta agree with Sniegy, it would seem prudent to have the auto service performed at this time (84K), as mine will be in soon I hope, for another rebuild. Current 206k, but box was recoed at 156k. :mad: Mmmm

Transmission Physican at Hornsby who performs Graham Davis's work, said it was 7.5K to replace. He works on the box on the bench in house and replaces modulaters while he's at it. Seems to know what he's on about.

So the moral to the story is: Service, service, service, unless you have loads of the stuff !