worn bearing noise on TD5 idle

[mattg]

Hi all.

Got out tonight while Barry was still running and he has a nasty bearing type rattle seems to be louder at the front under the car then front the top of the engine with the bonnet open.

Ideler pully is only 25,000km old. I think it sounds to low to be the power steering pump. would be handy though, I have a new one of those.

any Ideas appreciated.

not sure where to start with this one.

Cheers

Matt

[strangy]

How is the harmonic balancer?

Engine bearing noises dont normally present just at idle. Rattles at start up, are often indicators of mains wear and rattles under load and mid rev ranges are usually big ends. This is by no means definitive, but a good place to begin.

cheers

[mattg]

:eek: wow that not what I wanted to hear.

I am looking at a head gasket as well, if it is the big ends, i might be better off getting another donk.

I have a bit of blowby, I thought that would be rings, not big ends.

hmmm

[alien]

What idler pulley did you change?
Mine has no ACE so I have 3 bearings to think about.
1 on the adjuster.
1 on the idler(where the ACE pump would be fitted).
1 for the fan, mounted into the timing case.

I've found if you need 1 you probibly need another.

Happy hunting;)

[mattg]

noise has gone today. Bit weird..

I am going out now to check the harmonic balancer bolt.

I replaced the adjuster/tensioner.

I'll let you know.

Cheers

matt

[mattg]

What idler pulley did you change?
Mine has no ACE so I have 3 bearings to think about.
1 on the adjuster.
1 on the idler(where the ACE pump would be fitted).
1 for the fan, mounted into the timing case.

I've found if you need 1 you probibly need another.

Happy hunting;)

Just when to check that Harmonic balancer and sure enough the pully on the Fan has a wabble. Looks like it is the one on the timing Cover.

what do I do to fix that. Rave is not much help.

Cheers

Matt

[alien]

Just when to check that Harmonic balancer and sure enough the pully on the Fan has a wabble. Looks like it is the one on the timing Cover.

what do I do to fix that. Rave is not much help.

Cheers

Matt

Have a read of this excellent how to...
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/discovery-2/116271-how-replace-td5-viscous-fan-bearing.html?highlight=bearing :D

I use a narrow head 12 inch shifter to remove the fan instead of the tool mentioned.

[BIG O]

That's an expensive bearing too. I bought a cheap one last year from a bearing bloke in my local area, haven't used it though as I haven't had to change yet but it looks the same?. How many Km's has your vehicle done Matt?.

[mattg]

That's an expensive bearing too. I bought a cheap one last year from a bearing bloke in my local area, haven't used it though as I haven't had to change yet but it looks the same?. How many Km's has your vehicle done Matt?.

Barry has "only" done 354,000km.

Do you have a part number still? I might be able to get one tomorrow.. never know your luck.

Cheers

Matt

[mattg]

Have a read of this excellent how to...
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/discovery-2/116271-how-replace-td5-viscous-fan-bearing.html?highlight=bearing :D

I use a narrow head 12 inch shifter to remove the fan instead of the tool mentioned.

Thanks Kyle. That is very handy.

Cheers
Matt

[BIG O]

Good miles I'll bet.
Sorry I couldn't find the bloody thing. Now I have, I'm not that confident it's the right one for the job. I haven't seen the real thing yet.
Anyway what I got was a YSB (Never heard of it before, but was next to nothing to buy at the time) 6306-2RS.
Measured up at:
Outside dia= 72mm
Inside dia = 30mm
Width = 19mm this I think is too narrow but I'm not sure.
It might be right, but I like to compare it to the genuine item..

BIG O
03 D2 TD5 AUTO
99 D2 TD5 AUTO ACE
94 D1 TDI 3 DOOR (GONE)

[mattg]

Good miles I'll bet.


Some one else did them. I got him at 325 and have been briging him back to life.
CHeers

Matt

[BIG O]

Matt, I gave you a bum steer, actually I was sold the wrong bearing, it was cheap any way and will dropped in the bin.

The actual bearing you want is a SKF or other brand 3206 A-2RS Double row angular contact bearing. The bearing I mentioned previously a 6306-2RS will not fit in both outside dia and width, suggesting it's not double row angular. Sorry if this has caused any confusion. Landrover part number is ERR5285 and Rimmer Bros in UK have them for $99.92 Aus.

BIG O
03 D2 TD5 AUTO
99 D2 TD5 AUTO ACE
94 D1 TDI 3 DOOR (GONE)

[mattg]

Thanks BigO.
Everyone is shut so I can't get one anyway, I'll try for the SKF on Wednesday.

might ditch the fan all together.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/discovery-2/127475-thermo-fan-viscous-fan-bearing-bypass.html

Cheers

Matt

[mattg]

well the bearing pretty much fell out once I got the circlip out. there was alot of grease everywhere but after cleaning things up a little there wasn't any movement in the bearing itself. and there was NO grease in the bearing once I prised out the little plastic bearing cap. I have regreased it and put it back in with 2 grubsrews now holding it very firmly along with copious amounts of loctitie.

I have found a replacement for about $50 so I might get that and ditch the thermo fan idea. still nervous about throwing the belt if it isn't sitting streight. I think there is life in this bearing yet.

I have taken photos of the fitting process I have used I will post them tomorrow.

Cheers

Matt

[BIG O]

Matt, have you seen the cooling fan kit on MM 4X4 Landrovers website. $170, looks pretty good and might be your solution..

[mattg]

Just got back from the trip to Gold Coast. We were flat out at a Church Conference and barry got us there well. the Fan itself is wobbly and noisy but the bearing is holding up.

At $290 for the viscouse fan I am going to the wreckers tomorrow to see if I can find a AU fan to fit. any tips on how to activate the fan? how to get it to turn on and off and isolate it to turn it off manually for a water crossing?

Cheers

Matt

[fester]

Matt I have looked into this in the past as I was going to change my 80 Series Toyota to electric fan (this is the same car I am now looking at selling to fund me into a D2 so please don't shoot me. Should have not bought it in the first place but got scared off the D2 but that is another story) From my investigations the EF-EL fans are actually the highest flowing, even more so than the later AU etc. The AU etc are still good but for some reason the earlier ones actually flow even better.

Anyway this is a write up I found so hopefully it will paste OK as I can;t remember where I found it. Due to size I broke it up into seperate pages but it seems only the last page was really big so I ended up deleting some non necessary pictures. I have just installed a newer version of Word which is also making life harder so if someone wants it tidied better suggest away..

This is how to trigger it so that it mimics the original set up in the Fords. For me the trigger points of the suggested sender were not really right and at this stage I have not progressed as I was waiting till I built a new alloy radiator. I was simply going to weld a bung into my outlet off the head (hot side not thermostat side) and drill and tap for a suitable sender. I fyou search Tridons web site there are a multitude of senders with different voltages and I was also going to look at using 2 seperate ones for the right trigger points if they matched but there is no real need I suppose for the seperate triggers unless you want stepped cooling. Also the likes of Jaycar do a couple of temp controllers but I only looked at them briefly as I haven't gone further. As far as turning off you could add a master switch with another master relay and I'm sure someone smarter in the world of auto electrics could tell you which style of relay suits, maybe a changeover relay. I think yoou would still need to add another relay, even though it looks to add complexity a master switch would not carry the current safely. A changeover relay instead of being powered up all the time and switched off as needed could probably be wired to just trigger a switch off situation but ask an expert.

[mattg]

Fester, that is sooo good. and just what I needed. like it says, installing the fans is the easy bit. wiring them in is the tricky bit. What is the point though of a 2 speed fan. if the donk is hot enough for a Fan shouldn't it go flat out to cool it as quick as possible?

I'll be on the lookout for an EL fan.

Cheers

Matt

[mattg]

Can someone tell me at what water temp the Disco TD5 clutch fan cuts in and out?
thanks

Matt

[fester]

Fester, that is sooo good. and just what I needed. like it says, installing the fans is the easy bit. wiring them in is the tricky bit. What is the point though of a 2 speed fan. if the donk is hot enough for a Fan shouldn't it go flat out to cool it as quick as possible?

I'll be on the lookout for an EL fan.

Cheers

Matt

I think their idea was to mimic the original Ford set up as that fan from memory was put into an older Ford model. I'm along the lines of your thinking that it is simplier and easier to just run them both together. In that scenario it is one sender and one relay (ignoring the ability to override for water crossing). If you want cheap and simple for water crossing you could simply have the wiring somewhere handy and unplug.

The idea of staged fans has merit as I guess as the temp just creeps over normal running temp the early stage can hopefully control and keep it about there, however if temps start to rise again then the second fan or full power can kick in and reduce temps. The crux of the instal either way would be getting a trigger device that can trigger exactly where you want. I guess the lower setting uses less electrical power and also maybe stops the temp from wildly peaking and troughing. I'm not sure if this would happen in practice but you don't want to trigger say just a bit higgher than normal operating temp to then have full fan power drop temps a good bit lower than normal shut off then temps climb again. Whereas the staged setup might have a better control in keeping the cycling temps much closer normal operating temp. For the cruiser example there was no double trigger sender that would operate close to the thermostat setting so I hadn't looked any further at this stage. The electronic sender units from Jaycar are cheap and would allow the exact setup one wanted.

Again however in real life I don't know how important all this is for the gains or otherwise. Simply setting up the full power way first would be the way to go and test from there. I don't use the Engine Watchdog temp gauge so don;t know if it has the capability but I have a digital temp gauge (and pyro) from the States that incorporates a settable alarm point and this has a trigger circuit than can be used for external switching so I could use this as a simple fan trigger circuit to test initially.

[robbotd5]

Mate, your best bet is to replace all 3 bearings and be done with it. Throw a new belt on while your at it.
Regards
Robbo

[gatesy]

Matt, I gave you a bum steer, actually I was sold the wrong bearing, it was cheap any way and will dropped in the bin.

The actual bearing you want is a SKF or other brand 3206 A-2RS Double row angular contact bearing. The bearing I mentioned previously a 6306-2RS will not fit in both outside dia and width, suggesting it's not double row angular. Sorry if this has caused any confusion. Landrover part number is ERR5285 and Rimmer Bros in UK have them for $99.92 Aus.

BIG O
03 D2 TD5 AUTO
99 D2 TD5 AUTO ACE
94 D1 TDI 3 DOOR (GONE)


I have been looking a replacing the bearing in mine, I have found one on the net for $18. http://www.bearingsdirect.com/store/index.php?l=product_detail&p=584

Does this look right?

[p38arover]

I pressed the bearing out of a D2 Td5 idler (the ribbed one) yesterday. It might have been the pulley, ancillary drive. It was a 6303 - I can't remember the three letters after the no. but I can check later.

[BIG O]

GATESY,
It would have to measure up the same as the original. The one you are looking at measures 23. 8 width. IS THIS TOO wide. The SKF is listed at 23mm. You would have to have them side by side and measure but it sounds great for the price.
If you google Rimmer Bros UK they have a picture of the actual bearing SKF 3206 A-2RS Double row angular contact bearing in the Landrover box. I've looked around and found a few possible alternatives, they have different angles on the bearings and some measure a bees dick different dimensions, but the common thing is they all cost a fair bit, meaning they are meant to last a long time. The cheapest I found was a JAF 5206-2RS at $55. The closest match to the SKF was a INA 3206-2RS $90 with a slightly different bearing angle.

I think if Rimmer Bros UK can only do the actual bearing for $99 and then you pay shipping, and I can get the right one through MR Automotive for $90 thats the way I will go. I want to be sure it will last another ten years at least.

Both fan support bearings on our TD5's have a grumble in them when you turn them by hand without the fan and belt. They both spin really easy. I have asked around and most mechanics say just to keep an eye on it. I guess if you can hear it over the motor noise you have to get it out fast.

My old TDI fan support bearing could easily be heard over the engine, but it kept going no problems.

BIG O
03 D2 TD5 AUTO
99 D2 TD5 AUTO ACE
94 D1 TDI 3 DOOR (GONE)

[gatesy]

I dont need a new bearing. Turned out all my noises were comming from the uni joint on the front prop shaft. It was mangled and just about ready to fall apart. removed front prop shaft, and not more noises. So now off to get new uni joint.

[BIG O]

For those interested in changing your fan support bearing. You may have to if you are up around 200,000km. If that bearing seizes and spins in the housing you have bit of work to do to get on the road again.

I Have now changed both our TD5 Fan support bearings and I ended up using two different bearings.. 3206 (Euro) & 5206 (Japan).

I have been given quotes by indi LR repairers. One bearing for $160 :o, one for $130:o. The original is a SKF 3206 A 2RS about $100 bought from the UK.

I ended up buying one bearing from MR Auto for $90. This turned out to be a KSM 5206 RS (Japan). I now know that I could buy the same bearing for $35 from CBC BEARINGS. :mad:

I bought my 2nd bearing from CBC for $50 a FAG 3206B 2SR (Italy) because they didn't have the KSM in stock. :)

The bearing just has to be double row angular contact with seals both ends to do the job. These bearings are built to last and it's said they have 10000 hour life span,, all I know is my originals were very low on grease, it ends up in the housing and were starting to rumble a bit when spun by hand.

So save yourself some money on a bearing and at least 2 hours labour at $200. Following the instructions in the forum makes it an easy job to do and peace of mind for at least another 200000kms.

Cheers
BIG O
03 D2 TD5 AUTO
99 D2 TD5 AUTO ACE
94 D1 TDI 3 DOOR (GONE)

[Dazza67]

So save yourself some money on a bearing and at least 2 hours labour at $200. Following the instructions in the forum makes it an easy job to do and peace of mind for at least another 200000kms.


I think I have a bearing noise when cold in my D2 TD5, might have to investigate it, what was the symptoms ???

Mine best I can describe has a sort of air blowing noise like someone blowing softly over a coke bottle or a low supercharger growl but disappears when warm, I have checked the manifold all studs and bolts accounted for but this is coming from the front of the engine.

And it has 285K on it.

Dazza

[mattg]

I think I have a bearing noise when cold in my D2 TD5, might have to investigate it, what was the symptoms ???

Mine best I can describe has a sort of air blowing noise like someone blowing softly over a coke bottle or a low supercharger growl but disappears when warm, I have checked the manifold all studs and bolts accounted for but this is coming from the front of the engine.

And it has 285K on it.

Dazza

Hi Dazza

My noise was louder from under the front of the disco. I could tell my bearing was stuffed and moving in the housing as I could wobble the fan back and forth once I had taken the pressure off the belt.

Mine did 355km

Matt