1418 prefix engines

[Lotz-A-Landies]

We are seeking information on 1418 prefix engines (1958 Series II). Most particularly whether you have one and what capacity it is.

We suspect that we will find both 2 litre and 2 1/4 litre.

If you have one could you post an image, hopefully showing the engine number.

Diana

[bobslandies]

Chassis numbers 143 (CKD RHD Export 88") 8 (year) xxxxx (serial number) should have petrol motors with numbers beginning 1418xxx01. In the Grenville records Chassis number 143800001 has engine number 141800070 and is referred to as Small Motor once the larger motor was introduced.

The first 2.25 litre motor in the NSW Grenville records is in chassis number 143900019 (CKD RHD Export assembly - has engine 151901575) - sold 24.6.59. It is listed as 88 Std 2 1/4 Big Motor. Officially that makes it a 1959 model. Parts Catalogue (Series II and IIA Part No 605957 Dec 1968) state that Chassis numbers starting 1419, 1429, 1439, 1449 and 1459 in 88" vehicles as the changeover. Have not listed the 109 chassis numbers.

It will be interesting to see if there are any vehicles that one expects to see one type of motor having the other type fitted.

Bob

[ellard]

Hi there Diana

I will check when I get homem, but I think both Fire enignes have those prefexes.

They are both 1959 models.

PS - flying out later today, and heading to Blinman on the weekend for the Jamboree

Enjoy

Wayne

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Thanks Bob

The issue is all about the Command recon SIIs issued to the Army, there is a furphy (which may or may not be true) that some CR were fitted with the 2 litre engines. So far we have no evidence of any Army CR having a 2 litre and as all CR are 1959 and have engines in the 109" sequence* we are assuming all were 2 1/4 litre.

Even ARN 107-671 which was the 1958 trials 88" (chassis # 142800001) was fitted with an engine (151800031) in the 109" engine number sequence.

What we are interested in is to check that the "knowns" about the 1418 sequence engines being 2 litre is true in the real world.

Diana

* From 1951 up to 1959 Series II engines within a RHD wheelbase/model irrespective of assembly location were fitted with a engine stamped in the RHD Home Market sequence of the same model (until all serials in that sequence were used up then they went to the next sequence -> Export -> CKD etc. )

[B.S.F.]

2L Spread Bore 1418041(20?) The last 2digits are very hard to make out and don't show up at all in the picture.

http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee508/bsfnut/009.jpg

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Hi there Diana
I will check when I get home, but I think both Fire enignes have those prefexes.
They are both 1959 models.
PS - flying out later today, and heading to Blinman on the weekend for the Jamboree
Enjoy
WayneThanks Wayne

The numbers we are looking for should be 1958 short wheelbase vehicles (the 4th digit 8 = year) but who is to say where the engines are fitted these days.

Enjoy Blinman, talk to them about our LR 65th Anniversary ideas!

Diana

[stevep]

Hi Diana,

Can't really help but I have a 1958 SWB chassis no. 142800417 but has a holden engine :(. I don't even know what engine it is supposed to have but I assume a 2L but I dont see any sign of where the electric fuel pump should have been bolted on the bulkhead. bell housing bolts are to suit a 2L. A guy in NZ has some photos on the Series 2 UK site of a 2L can't remember the engine number but it's a 1418

regards
Steve

[bobslandies]

Thanks Bob

The issue is all about the Command recon SIIs issued to the Army, there is a furphy (which may or may not be true) that some CR were fitted with the 2 litre engines. So far we have no evidence of any Army CR having a 2 litre and as all CR are 1959 and have engines in the 109" sequence* we are assuming all were 2 1/4 litre.

Even ARN 107-671 which was the 1958 trials 88" (chassis # 142800001) was fitted with an engine (151800031) in the 109" engine number sequence.

Parts Catalogue (Series II and IIA Part No 605957 Dec 1968) state that Chassis numbers starting 1419, 1429, 1439, 1449 and 1459 in 88" vehicles as the changeover. Have not listed the 109 chassis numbers.

All 1958 109" engine numbers from 15180001 onwards should be 2 1/4 engine as that was when it was introduced - according to the Parts Catalogue above.


What we are interested in is to check that the "knowns" about the 1418 sequence engines being 2 litre is true in the real world.

Diana

* From 1951 up to 1959 Series II engines within a RHD wheelbase/model irrespective of assembly location were fitted with a engine stamped in the RHD Home Market sequence of the same model (until all serials in that sequence were used up then they went to the next sequence -> Export -> CKD etc. )

Diana,

It will be interesting to sort this out if there are some obviously original 2 litre engines but I think you are right in that it is a "Furphy"

Wayne - have a good weekend! We will have to try and get over to Blinman if you do have a 65th Anniversary.

Bob

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Thanks Steve

That's an interesting chassis number, SII RHD Export. Do you know any of it's history?

I can tell you that it originally had engine 141801829 a spread bore 2 litre by our reckoning.

Have you ever wondered about the remnants of red colouring?

Don't let Ellard hear about it, because it was oraginally a fire engine with a truck cab. Given it's date I would guess an orignal Rover factory FE.

It was first owned by the Research School Physical ???? delivered 25/7/1958

[Lotz-A-Landies]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/609.jpg

A thread has been created for discussion of Steve's vehicle in the SII SIIa section.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/series-2-2a/127248-steveps-sii-88-fire-engine.html


Please continue discussion on the vehicle in that thread. :)

[Shonky]

...so, about those 1418 engine numbers hey! ;)

[Lotz-A-Landies]

...so, about those 1418 chassis numbers hey! ;):confused:
Shonky

I don't think we have been discussing 1418 chassis numbers? 1418 engine numbers yes but not 1958 Home Market RHD SII Petrol models no! :D ;)

Diana

BTW the newly identified Fire Engine http://www.aulro.com/afvb/series-2-2a/127248-steveps-sii-88-fire-engine.html was a 1428 chassis.

PPS isn't Gus a 1498 chassis now? 1958 CKD RHD SII Holden engine model

[Shonky]

:confused:
Shonky

I don't think we have been discussing 1418 chassis numbers? 1418 engine numbers yes but not 1958 Home Market RHD SII Petrol models no! :D ;)

PPS isn't Gus a 1498 chassis now? 1958 CKD RHD SII Holden engine model

Stirrer. I know you know I knew what I was talking about. :p

Re PPS: No! He's 2.25 powered now! The mighty 186-S is powering the floor of the shed in decapitated form.

[Seriestwo]

I dont know my engine number but my landy's chassis number is 143800622 and it still has the 2L engine.

[Rainer]

Hi,

Well here comes a mistery :D My engine has number 141801188 and is a 2.25L engine. All ordered spare parts so far did fit without a problem.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/10/1321.jpg

and here a full image of it

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/09/1277.jpg

You can see there in Stencil the number 66. According to the history of my Land Rover many spare parts where bought in Belice (former British Honduras) as my Land Rover was being driven in Sout Mexico in the peninsula of Yucatan.
According to my papers my Land Rover is a 1961 model :wheelchair:

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Ranier

Is yours is a LHD NAS export vehicle or a standard LHD export?

Diana

[Rainer]

Ranier

Is yours is a LHD NAS export vehicle or a standard LHD export?

Diana

Hi Diana,

Sorry but I have absolutely no clue and you know why ? because according to the papers I have, it was a CKD LHD exported to Mexico and assembled here in Mexico, but another story from people who know this Land Rover from where it was driven originally they told me a Guy from Canada came down to Mexico and when he left he did not want to take the Land Rover back to Canada so he sold it here and somebody got some papers in order to nationalize it :wasntme: My papers state chassis # 155100012 and motor # 151110382. As you can see here in the original invoice

http://astroforo.net/LandRover1961/Seguro/LandRover1961Factura001.pdf

and below the card you got in those times declaring it as a Mexican vehicle

http://astroforo.net/LandRover1961/Seguro/LandRover1961Tarjeton003.pdf

So as written, it is a mistery Land Rover. By the way, the chassis number is also a strange one as you can see below :D Looks like a replacement one.

I have not yet checked the axle numbers as I do not want to take off the paint of them as they look quite good as they are in the moment. If I would exactly where to look for I would scratch of the paint on that position.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/09/1181.jpg

regards Rainer

[sanderm2]

Just about to purchase my first series 2 and it has E/N 141801949 and
C/N 143800300 .It is a 2ltr motor and looks to have been ex Army. Once I pick it up on Wednesday I'll post a picture.:)

[bulletproof]

Just about to purchase my first series 2 and it has E/N 141801949 and
C/N 143800300 .It is a 2ltr motor and looks to have been ex Army. Once I pick it up on Wednesday I'll post a picture.:)

I will be very interested to see the pictures because it must be quite an early 58. They are quite rare now with the original 2 litre

Cheers Richard

[Shonky]

Just about to purchase my first series 2 and it has E/N 141801949 and
C/N 143800300 .It is a 2ltr motor and looks to have been ex Army. Once I pick it up on Wednesday I'll post a picture.:)

Nice! :D

It isn't ex-Army though. It predates the initial supply of LRs to the Army. (the earliest are '59 models with 1439 chassis numbers)

[sanderm2]

I wonder what it was used for then , it has black numbers stenciled on the wheel arch next to the drivers door . Will have to get the pictures up tomorrow and then start a build thread :)

[fc110]

Nice! :D

It isn't ex-Army though. It predates the initial supply of LRs to the Army. (the earliest are '59 models with 1439 chassis numbers)

The early history of ex-army LRs is still to be written. I had acquaintences years ago of early LR distributor employees. They told me that when the Series 2 came out, the army didn't want that new fangled 2 1/4L motor & insisted for some time to have the OLD 2L, that they knew. I had a 1956 86" that was ex-army. The army sold a large quantity of surplus spares in Darwin in the 1950's, for 80s. I hope I still have some of the tags that were attached to these parts, because they've got unit no.'s on them. As an aside, when they tested the Rolls B40 in the 80s, they appear to have also tested a Holden powered one. How many of the early Aussie LRs were in Korea & Malaya & not in Australia is an interesting topic.

The early history of ex-army 80s & Series 1's is I think muddied by the likelyhood that they were absolutley standard with little if any mods & markings. In the list of early mil LRs recorded, 2 at least that are described as S2s are actually 1958 Series 1 88".

From a National Library search, heaps of as yet undigitized stuff,
"Test Instruction No 1515 - durability trials under Australian hot wet and hot dry weather conditions of: 1. B40 Rolls Royce engine: 2. Holden engine: 3. Fordson truck with Martin Harper conversion: 4. Cvt 4 x 4 3 ton WD truck for comparison [supplementary keywords: Chevrolet, Landrover, Land Rover]" 1951
"Atomic Weapons Research Establishment Report No T79/54 - Operation Totem - Effects on a Landrover (Car 5cwt 4x4) and Generating Sets - E R Drake Seager, Captain R F C Butler REME [Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers] - August 1956, Copy 47"
"Holden Engine fitted to Land Rover [contains 13 photographs]" 1951.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Are you sure these were Army 80"?

So far from the ARN book only two 80" are recorded, while plenty of records exist for GPW and Austin Champs. The two 80" have known provenance and photographic evidence.

There were many 80" held by the Navy, we have the records of those delivered in Sydney and have subsequently identified existant vehicles including one with RAN in paint evidence. The RAN parts supplies would have been sold through the same Dept. of Supply auction system as Army parts were disposed of.

The ceremonial S1 now held by the Army, were once used for ceremonial events of Betty Windsor and the Governors General subsequently transferred to the Army. The Army S1 used by Australian Troops in the Malay Emergency and Korea were from British Army fleet and even carried Brit Army "Tag" numbers.

BTW: I am the person who identified and accessed the Holden Test Instruction from the National Archives and which is now held by REMLR.

Diana

[101RRS]

Other than the trials series 1s, I expect that any ex mil series 1s were ex Brit series 1s that were used here and stayed as it was not cost effective to repatriate them to the UK.

As Diana mentioned the Navy certainly had 80" - I have seen a short vid of HMAS Tobruk at sea off Korea in the Korean War which has an 80" stored on the main deck - mid ships. Unfortunately the quality of the vid is not real good and the vehicles colour cannot be determined. I put a link to the vid on AULRO a few years back if anyone wants to search for it.

Garry

Edit - here it is http://www.gunplot.net/korea/korea4.html

[sanderm2]

Picked it up today , very , very exited !
I have put the photos online ,you can see the set here Series II LandRover - a set on Flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/66862214@N03/sets/72157627770593710/)
There seems to have been some writing on the front guard , someone may recognize it . Also there was a round tag sitting in there if anyone knows what it is please let me know.
Thanks
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[bulletproof]

Picked it up today , very , very exited !
I have put the photos online ,you can see the set here Series II LandRover - a set on Flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/66862214@N03/sets/72157627770593710/)
There seems to have been some writing on the front guard , someone may recognize it . Also there was a round tag sitting in there if anyone knows what it is please let me know.
Thanks
http://www.flickr.com/photos/66862214@N03/6190821313/
Very good Photos. Well worth restoring because those 58s are as rare as hens teeth now.

I notice it has the clutch Reservor with 2 pipes out of the bottom. Only the first 1000 or so had these before it was modified with one out the side and the other out of the bottom. Very rare.

I would be very interested in some of the dates on the parts. Above the dynamo on the block is the casting date for the engine like 3 58. The first number being the month. Nearly every Landrover unit has a date on it.

I can see the one on the distributor is 3 58 so that is march 58 which is very early.

Cheers Richard

[fc110]

Have been digging around my (limited) records, & found one of my S2 2l had engine no. 141804085 when I put in eng 170610176 ('56 2 l). This seems an extremely high no, any one know how many were produced. I have a couple of radiators lying around & 1 is a serck with tag 6M 58. I was always too smart on most of my rego's & didn't report chassis no's in case I ever wanted to change one :D, so don't have chassis no's for the 2 I had registered at different times. The other 1 had a holden in it so that's not much use.

[Shonky]

The early history of ex-army LRs is still to be written. I had acquaintences years ago of early LR distributor employees. They told me that when the Series 2 came out, the army didn't want that new fangled 2 1/4L motor & insisted for some time to have the OLD 2L, that they knew. I had a 1956 86" that was ex-army. The army sold a large quantity of surplus spares in Darwin in the 1950's, for 80s. I hope I still have some of the tags that were attached to these parts, because they've got unit no.'s on them. As an aside, when they tested the Rolls B40 in the 80s, they appear to have also tested a Holden powered one. How many of the early Aussie LRs were in Korea & Malaya & not in Australia is an interesting topic.

The early history of ex-army 80s & Series 1's is I think muddied by the likelyhood that they were absolutley standard with little if any mods & markings. In the list of early mil LRs recorded, 2 at least that are described as S2s are actually 1958 Series 1 88".

From a National Library search, heaps of as yet undigitized stuff,
"Test Instruction No 1515 - durability trials under Australian hot wet and hot dry weather conditions of: 1. B40 Rolls Royce engine: 2. Holden engine: 3. Fordson truck with Martin Harper conversion: 4. Cvt 4 x 4 3 ton WD truck for comparison [supplementary keywords: Chevrolet, Landrover, Land Rover]" 1951
"Atomic Weapons Research Establishment Report No T79/54 - Operation Totem - Effects on a Landrover (Car 5cwt 4x4) and Generating Sets - E R Drake Seager, Captain R F C Butler REME [Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers] - August 1956, Copy 47"
"Holden Engine fitted to Land Rover [contains 13 photographs]" 1951.

Yes, but this is a Series II, not a series I. Total number of 1958 Series II Land Rovers (with 1438 chassis numbers) known to be procured by the Australian Army? 0.
(talking Army here, not Navy or Air Force)

Surely you have to agree that this Series II Land Rover that predates the Army supply contract is far more likely to be one of the hundreds of civilian ones of it's type, rather than a mystery one off that nobody knows about or has any records of.

I don't doubt that it looks ex-Army... it's a Land Rover. They all look ex-Army!

(surely that was a lot of effort to make a moot point...?)

[sanderm2]

Very good Photos. Well worth restoring because those 58s are as rare as hens teeth now.

I notice it has the clutch Reservor with 2 pipes out of the bottom. Only the first 1000 or so had these before it was modified with one out the side and the other out of the bottom. Very rare.

I would be very interested in some of the dates on the parts. Above the dynamo on the block is the casting date for the engine like 3 58. The first number being the month. Nearly every Landrover unit has a date on it.

I can see the one on the distributor is 3 58 so that is march 58 which is very early.

Cheers Richard

Hi Richard this is the date on the wiper motor .....
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=39708&stc=1&d=1317601866

Thanks

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Have been digging around my (limited) records, & found one of my S2 2l had engine no. 141804085 when I put in eng 170610176 ('56 2 l). This seems an extremely high no, any one know how many were produced.
<snip>Remember the 1418 sequence was worldwide for all 88" 2L engines, the highest number in the Grenville records is engine 141806995

[bulletproof]

Remember the 1418 sequence was worldwide for all 88" 2L engines, the highest number in the Grenville records is engine 141806995

Hi Diana
That number is getting well toward the end of the 2 litre

From the Grenville records. What is the Lowest 1418... engine number you have.

I understand 143800001 had engine 141800070. Because of a block order going to Australia in Feb 58 there should be a block of very low numbers.

The only 2 I know of at the moment is my 141800023 and I know 142800015 had 141800025

The first UK one that has just been found in bad condition 141800001 has engine 141800517. This was dispatched on April 14 1958

Thanks Richard

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Richard

The first CKD set included
143800001 has engine 141800070
143800006 has engine 141800066

the other 4 had engines one hundred later
143800002 had engine 141800169
143800003 had engine 141800170
143800004 had engine 141800164
143800005 had engine 141800167

The next two CKD sets had engines at aprox 400 and 600

Diana

[bulletproof]

Richard

The first CKD set included
143800001 has engine 141800070
143800006 has engine 141800066

the other 4 had engines one hundred later
143800002 had engine 141800169
143800003 had engine 141800170
143800004 had engine 141800164
143800005 had engine 141800167

The next two CKD sets had engines at aprox 400 and 600

Diana
Hi Diana
Thanks for that info. Some in the UK Series 2 club believe about a 100 CKDs were sent to Australia in Feb 1958.

Those Figures would indicate only 1 set of 6 was sent in Feb and then the next two sets in Mar-April.

Thanks Again

Richard

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Richard

I think you are misreading the information, the Gaydon dispatch books will be more accurate in the date information when the kits were sent.

You will no doubt be aware that a CKD kit was a number of large crates which contained sufficient assemblies and parts to build 6 vehicles. The first set was shipped on the "Geelong Star" and the next two kits arrived on the "Westmeath" which may be the February and March you speak of. It took about 11 weeks of bobing up and down on the ocean waves for the crates to arrive at Port Jackson, they were then freighted out to Enfield in what was Western Sydney, probably a days delay including unnloading the ship, loading the freight car, the train journey and final unloading at PMC, where they were placed in storage ready to build. The earliest they would have arrived at the PMC factory was May or June 1958 at which time they were still building and selling Series 1 Land Rovers.

The order in which the crates were unpacked seems random, particularly for the component assemblies and probably depended upon the way they were stored. i.e last crate in first crate out as chassis #13, #14, #17, #18 have engines in the 370 range while chassis #7, #8, #9, #10, #11 and #12 had engines in the high 600s or low 700s. In fact #91, #94, #95 and #96 have lower engine numbers than chassis #7 - #12 (Eng #467, #463, #474, #466)

The Grenville Motors boks are essentially sales records not production records, as a vehicle likely remained in a storage yard before being sold or shipped to a final dealer at which time the date is entered.
Hi Diana
Thanks for that info. Some in the UK Series 2 club believe about a 100 CKDs were sent to Australia in Feb 1958.

Those Figures would indicate only 1 set of 6 was sent in Feb and then the next two sets in Mar-April.

Thanks Again

RichardOn your February dates, I thought it was mentioned that Rover was building about 100 Land Rover vehicles a week, locally. that would mean that 400 engines would be used in the Solihull factory in February.

CKD Kit 1 had engines from the first two weeks of February, CKD kit 3 CKD Kit 13 & CKD kit 16 had engines from the end of February and begining of March and CKD Kit 2 & CKD Kit 12 had engines from the middle of March "58 and CKD kit 14 & CKD kit 15 had engines from the end of March.

If however the engines were assembled at more than 100 per week we have to revise the calculation.

Remember these records are only for vehicles sold or distributed in NSW which is not all of PMC's production.

[bulletproof]

Richard

I think you are misreading the information, the Gaydon dispatch books will be more accurate in the date information when the kits were sent.

You will no doubt be aware that a CKD kit was a number of large crates which contained sufficient assemblies and parts to build 6 vehicles. The first set was shipped on the "Geelong Star" and the next two kits arrived on the "Westmeath" which may be the February and March you speak of. It took about 11 weeks of bobing up and down on the ocean waves for the crates to arrive at Port Jackson, they were then freighted out to Enfield in what was Western Sydney, probably a days delay including unnloading the ship, loading the freight car, the train journey and final unloading at PMC, where they were placed in storage ready to build. The earliest they would have arrived at the PMC factory was May or June 1958 at which time they were still building and selling Series 1 Land Rovers.


Hi Diana
This is very useful information. No one has ever given me anything specific regarding dispatch dates to Australia. All they say is we are led to believe...
So I have now given them this info and asked them to be specific.

I am only going on the 1418 engine numbers. Rover at this time were doing over 100 engines a day but most of these were going into series 1s as 1118....s until Mar 24.

All I know for sure is that my one has 141800023 and was dispatched 3 Mar and the first UK ones were around the beginning of April with engines around 14180500+ so the 600-700 range in your figures would have been after that.

By what you have said , there was definately only one kit sent very early on the "Geelong Star" and the engine numbers back that up

Very interesting and I will await a response From the Series 2 club

Thanks again

Richard

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Ship - - - - - - Chassis No - Engine No
1 -- Geelong Star 143800006 - 141800066
2 -- Geelong Star 143800001 - 141800070
3 -- Geelong Star 143800004 - 141800164
4 -- Geelong Star 143800005 - 141800167
5 -- Geelong Star 143800002 - 141800169
6 -- Geelong Star 143800003 - 141800170
7 -- Westmeath - 143800017 - 141800366
8 -- Westmeath - 143800013 - 141800370
9 -- Westmeath - 143800014 - 141800371
10 - Westmeath-143800018 - 141800375
11 - Rhe?cenor- 143800094 - 141800463
12 - Qld Star - - 143800075 - 141800465
13 - Rhe?cenor- 143800096 - 141800466
14 - Rhe?cenor- 143800091 - 141800467
15 - Woric ------ 143800353 - 141800473
16 - Rhe?cenor- 143800095 - 141800474
17 - Qld Star - - 143800071 - 141800478
18 - Qld Star - - 143800073 - 141800492
19 - Qld Star - - 143800074 - 141800495
20 - Westmeath-143800016 - 141800496
21 - Qld Star - - 143800077 - 141800497
22 - Aust. Star - 143800262 - 141800501
23 - Qld Star - - 143800076 - 141800502
24 - Qld Star - - 143800072 - 141800552
25 - Westmeath-143800015 - 141800556
26 - Westmeath-143800010 - 141800557
27 - Woric ------ 143800352 - 141800562
28 - Qld Star - - 143800068 - 141800650
29 - Westmeath-143800008 - 141800652
30 - Westmeath-143800012 - 141800653
31 - Westmeath-143800007 - 141800654
32 - Qld Star - - 143800078 - 141800658
33 - Qld Star - - 143800067 - 141800660
34 - Qld Star - - 143800070 - 141800661
35 - Westmeath-143800011 - 141800662
36 - Qld Star - - 143800069 - 141800664
37 - Westmeath-143800009 - 141800665
38 - Aust. Star - 143800256 - 141800723
39 - Port Nelson 143800250 - 141800724
40 - Qld Star - - 143800081 - 141800823
41 - Qld Star - - 143800084 - 141800824
42 - Qld Star - - 143800087 - 141800825
43 - Aust. Star - 143800253 - 141800861
44 - Aust. Star - 143800260 - 141800883
45 - Aust. Star - 143800255 - 141800903
46 - Qld Star - - 143800089 - 141800907
47 - Qld Star - - 143800086 - 141800908
48 - Qld Star - - 143800080 - 141800909
49 - Qld Star - - 143800088 - 141800910
50 - Qld Star - - 143800085 - 141800911
51 - Qld Star - - 143800090 - 141800912
52 - Aust. Star - 143800304 - 141800914
53 - Qld Star - - 143800079 - 141800917
54 - Polydorus - 143800516 - 141800920
55 - Aust. Star - 143800258 - 141800923
56 - Aust. Star - 143800254 - 141800936
57 - Rhe?cenor - 143800093 - 141800970
58 - Rhe?cenor - 143800092 - 141800976
59 - Woric ------ 143800351 - 141801028
60 - Woric ------ 143800349 - 141801035
61 - Ajana ------ 143800423 - 141801089
62 - Ajana ------ 143800424 - 141801091
63 - Ajana ------ 143800425 - 141801092
64 - Ajana ------ 143800422 - 141801093
65 - Aust. Star - 143800083 - 141801101
64 - Aust. Star - 143800082 - 141801102
65 - Port Sydney 143800420 - 141801180
66 - Ajana ------ 143800426 - 141801182
67 - Polydorus - 143800512 - 141801196
68 - Ajana ------ 143800421 - 141801198

P.S. This is a list of engine numbers less than #1200, remember the ship is an indication of the kit that the chassis/car number arrived on, it does not represent which ship any other assembly may have arrived on. i.e. the PMC factory would have opened a crate of engines that may not have arrived on the same ship as the vehicle that is being assembled at the time.

P.P.S. Other CKD kit batches would have arrived in Sydney, assembled by PMC and have been distributed by another state's master distributor, hence engines from other kits not distributed in NSW may have ended up in NSW vehicles.

P.P.P.S. AFAIK at the time there were assembly plants in Sydney, South Africa, India and possibly Iran.

[bulletproof]

Richard

I think you are misreading the information, the Gaydon dispatch books will be more accurate in the date information when the kits were sent.


Hi Diana
We are at last making progress and your numbers tied in nicely with the Gaydon historical records

Here is a reply from the UK by 58Paul who keeps the records and does research at the museum

Quote
Hi Richard, it was I who noted the dates down when looking through the records a few years back for the 100 or so Feb 58 ckd's.

Looks like I was wrong? and this is off LRFAQ website, though I do know this isnt always acurate either but it does tie in with your findings.

Vehicle
Serial # In Out Colour Dispatched To
143800001 28 Feb 1958 28 Feb 1958 Batch #1 To Grenville Motors Ltd., Syndey For Pressed Metals Corp. Ltd., Sydney
143800002 28 Feb 1958 28 Feb 1958 Batch #1 To Grenville Motors Ltd., Syndey For Pressed Metals Corp. Ltd., Sydney
143800003 28 Feb 1958 28 Feb 1958 Batch #1 To Grenville Motors Ltd., Syndey For Pressed Metals Corp. Ltd., Sydney
143800004 28 Feb 1958 28 Feb 1958 Batch #1 To Grenville Motors Ltd., Syndey For Pressed Metals Corp. Ltd., Sydney
143800005 28 Feb 1958 28 Feb 1958 Batch #1 To Grenville Motors Ltd., Syndey For Pressed Metals Corp. Ltd., Sydney
143800006 28 Feb 1958 28 Feb 1958 Batch #1 To Grenville Motors Ltd., Syndey For Pressed Metals Corp. Ltd., Sydney
143800007 14 Mar 1958 14 Mar 1958 Batch #2 To Grenville Motors Ltd., Syndey For Pressed Metals Corp. Ltd., Sydney
143800008 14 Mar 1958 14 Mar 1958 Batch #2 To Grenville Motors Ltd., Syndey For Pressed Metals Corp. Ltd., Sydney
143800009 14 Mar 1958 14 Mar 1958 Batch #2 To Grenville Motors Ltd., Syndey For Pressed Metals Corp. Ltd., Sydney
143800010 14 Mar 1958 14 Mar 1958 Batch #2 To Grenville Motors Ltd., Syndey For Pressed Metals Corp. Ltd., Sydney
143800011 14 Mar 1958 14 Mar 1958 Batch #2 To Grenville Motors Ltd., Syndey For Pressed Metals Corp. Ltd., Sydney
143800012 14 Mar 1958 14 Mar 1958 Batch #2 To Grenville Motors Ltd., Syndey For Pressed Metals Corp. Ltd., Sydney

Next time I'm at Gaydon I will double check the 1438's in the dispatch book there.


Cheers Richard

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Hi Diana
We are at last making progress and your numbers tied in nicely with the Gaydon historical records

Here is a reply from the UK by 58Paul who keeps the records and does research at the museum

<snip> Grenville Motors Ltd., Syndey For Pressed Metals Corp. Ltd., Sydney

Next time I'm at Gaydon I will double check the 1438's in the dispatch book there.

Cheers RichardI wonder if LRFAQ is related to Juan-Antonio Samaranch

and the winner is... Sid en ee


I dont know my engine number but my landy's chassis number is 143800622 and it still has the 2L engine.Have you checked to see if the engine number is still 141805081? I have a partial record as it was a part of a swap for hard tops with Regent Motors.


Just about to purchase my first series 2 and it has E/N 141801949 and
C/N 143800300 .It is a 2ltr motor and looks to have been ex Army. Once I pick it up on Wednesday I'll post a picture.:)We have no record of that vehicle in the NSW books, however the engine and chassis numbers are in the correct associations for it to be the original engine.

Unfortunately it is highly unlikely that the vehicle is ex-Army as the first command recon were all 1959 serial numbers with 2 1/4 litre engines and no records have yet been uncovered for any 1958 88" 1418 sequence (2 litre) engines.


Hi,

Well here comes a mistery :D My engine has number 141801188 and is a 2.25L engine. All ordered spare parts so far did fit without a problem.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/10/1321.jpg

and here a full image of it

snip>Reviewing the numbers on this post, the numbers appear raised, which would be an indication of a casting number and not a stamped engine number.

Is the number above the same as indicated by the red arrow?

The exhaust manifold is a much later possibly SIII manifold and the vehicle behind seems to actually be an SIII.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[Rainer]

Hi,

Sorry to answer so late.

NO the numbers are not raised, just an optical ilusion from the image (that happens somtimes), you may believe me, they are stamped, and yes the number is stamped to where you are pointing with the red arrow (difficult to see that red arrow :D)

About the exhaust manifold I exchanged it 8-9 years ago as the one it had had a crack as well as the inlet manifold. Got the spares in Germany complete with a new Gearbox, springs, etc.

Here http://www.astroforo.net/LandRover1961/Seguro/LandRover1961Factura001.pdf you can see the invoice travelling with this vehicle. If you make a search it will reveal Year 1961 LHD and CKD shipped to Mexico. As I said, Big Mistery :D

Yes, that vehicle is a Bastard :D as it has a Museum of different parts due to the difficulty of getting spare parts to Mexico. So the PO's did not care to keep it original but more they cared about having it going :D

:wasntme: !

Next problem is already around the corner. This engine looks like it will not make much more time :( and now I am searching for a replacement :confused:

[dane h]

Hi all,

Assuming from the price a few others have seen this. Looks earlier than all the other s2 numbers so far. chassis 14380092 and 2 litre still in place.

eBay Australia: Buy new & used fashion, electronics & home d (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/250928931592'ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_500wt_1275)

Cheers,

Dane

[bulletproof]

The worlds second oldest known 2 litre petrol engine out of a Series two 141800211 turned up at my place yesterday fitted in a 1954 107.

There were 6 older ones sent to Australia on Feb 28 1958 if anyone can find them. up to number 170

It was cast on the 9th Feb 1958 over two months before the release of the Series 2 at the Amsterdam Motor Show on April 16 1958

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/01/364.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/11/141.jpg

It is fitted to this 1954 107 as a replacement

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/11/142.jpg

Cheers Richard

[bulletproof]

With the introduction of the 2 Litre 1418.... engines in Series 2s of 1958. There were a couple of changes to the oil Pump so they were not completely identical to the 2 Litre 1118..s in the series 1

1 The "oil pump body assembly" 501253

2 The "Drive shaft for the distributor" 267829

These parts had not been used on any previous model

Here is a photo from my original Jan 58 series 2 parts book TP199/A

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/11/2.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/11/3.jpg

Cheers Richard

[123rover50]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/09/506.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/09/507.jpg

Keith

[wrinklearthur]

No don't . :o
.

[papadad]

Hello,

Its very interesting to read your searching results for early Land Rovers.

I have engine 141800169 which I'm thinking of rebuilding to put into a
1953 80", its original engine is well worn out and will be expensive to overhaul.
Can you tell me what size bore this engine had originally, I'm having difficulty finding any details about it.

Thank you, Lyle

[bobslandies]

Hello,

Its very interesting to read your searching results for early Land Rovers.

I have engine 141800169 which I'm thinking of rebuilding to put into a
1953 80", its original engine is well worn out and will be expensive to overhaul.
Can you tell me what size bore this engine had originally, I'm having difficulty finding any details about it.

Thank you, Lyle

Hi Lyle,

The first batch of 6 Series 2 88 Standard (softtop) vehicles (143800001-06)arrived in Sydney on 22 August 1958 on the Geelong Star. Engine 141800169 was fitted to vehicle 143800002 with ign key 683 and supplied by Grenville Motors to Permewan Wright Ltd on 22.9.58.

Do you know where the vehicle is?

Bob

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Wasnt the ANU fire engine 142800417 originally fitted with a 2 litre 1418 engine and now the owner is looking for an appropriate replacement for the holden engine?

Lyle: the 1418 engines are exactly the same specifications as the spread bore 1997 cc engines fitted to the late Series 1s. Your '53 80" and the '54 86" & 107" should have a siamese bore 1997 cc engine. The bore and stroke are the same on both 1997 engines but the bearings are different and the spread bore is a full flow oil filter system while the siamese bore in the '53s is still bypass the same as the other 80".

Depending how pedantic you want to be, the spread bore are more reliable, but are easy to detect because of the different location of the oil filter.


The worlds second oldest known 2 litre petrol engine out of a Series two 141800211 turned up at my place yesterday fitted in a 1954 107.

There were 6 older ones sent to Australia on Feb 28 1958 if anyone can find them. up to number 170...I guess Lyle now gets the Mantle of "World's second oldest known 1418 engine", Sorry Bulletproof. :BigCry:

[stevep]

Wasnt the ANU fire engine 142800417 originally fitted with a 2 litre 1418 engine and now the owner is looking for an appropriate replacement for the holden engine?



yes it did have 2L (eng no.141801829)(started production on the 19th May 1958, and was completed on the 23rd May 1958, delivered in Aust 25.7.58) but it now has a 2.25L engine - I am still working on it every week end. done the motor , gearbox, all the running gear. Just getting to radiator, exhaust & painting.

regards
Steve

[Proneon1964]

I just found engine No.141800467 in my 1950 series 1 06114727 , can anyone let me know what this is out of and what size it could be?

Thanks Peter.

[bobslandies]

I just found engine No.141800467 in my 1950 series 1 06114727 , can anyone let me know what this is out of and what size it could be?

Thanks Peter.

Hi Peter,

This engine was fitted to a 1958 Series 2 88" soft-top vehicle Chassis/Vehicle no. 143800091 supplied 25.9.58 to Midway Service Station, a local Land Rover agent, by Grenville Motors. It would be a 2 litre motor.

Your vehicle R06114727 was fitted with engine 06115126, key 586, supplied 26.10.50 to Cumberland Motors.

Bob

[Proneon1964]

Thanks Bob, only just found time to have a closer look found casting date on block at the rear of motor it looks like 9 11 57.

[Seriestwo]

I wonder if LRFAQ is related to Juan-Antonio Samaranch

and the winner is... Sid en ee

Have you checked to see if the engine number is still 141805081? I have a partial record as it was a part of a swap for hard tops with Regent Motors.

We have no record of that vehicle in the NSW books, however the engine and chassis numbers are in the correct associations for it to be the original engine.

Unfortunately it is highly unlikely that the vehicle is ex-Army as the first command recon were all 1959 serial numbers with 2 1/4 litre engines and no records have yet been uncovered for any 1958 88" 1418 sequence (2 litre) engines.

Reviewing the numbers on this post, the numbers appear raised, which would be an indication of a casting number and not a stamped engine number.

Is the number above the same as indicated by the red arrow?

The exhaust manifold is a much later possibly SIII manifold and the vehicle behind seems to actually be an SIII.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=39785&d=1317712240

Hi Dianna,

I only just read this sorry. The engine number in 143800622 is 141805081. I can also confirm that that the engine number in 143800068 is 141800650, as I purchased this vehicle on the weekend.

Chris

[cactipus]

Another contribution. Purchased this week from Bathurst

1958 88"
Chassis no . 113800205
Engine no. 111801032
CKD, RHD, I think it's meant to have semi floating rear axle but I have one of each. LH, semi, RH floating.
Does anyone know what "Produced by pressed metal corp Sydney" means?
Did they assemble it?

[JDNSW]

As far as I know fully floating axles, while optional, were in fact only fitted to 109s. But can be retrofitted to any Series 1. (but half axles are shorter than Series 2/3)

Pressed Metal Corporation was the company that assembled Landrovers in Australia - more details in the Landrover history thread.

John

[wrinklearthur]

Fully floating axles were fitted to most of the last of the 88" and 109" series one's and also here in Tasmania we know of a couple of 1958 88" series 2's that had the narrow series one axle assemblies from new ( that year had a screw air vent control with the Bakelite knob and small intermediate shaft in the transfer box).
I have seen a picture of a new series 2 with semi floating axles (a UK picture).
.

[JDNSW]

Fully floating axles were fitted to most of the last of the 88" and 109" series one's and also here in Tasmania we know of a couple of 1958 88" series 2's that had the narrow series one axle assemblies from new ( that year had a screw air vent control with the Bakelite knob and small intermediate shaft in the transfer box).
I have seen a picture of a new series 2 with semi floating axles (a UK picture).
.

Were they Australian assembled? Both the Australian assemblers and Rover themselves were never above making use of any parts on hand if there were a shortage of the "right" parts, and these never make their way into the parts books unless they involved large numbers of vehicles, in which case they are usually just listed as "alternatives".

John

[cactipus]

Were they Australian assembled? Both the Australian assemblers and Rover themselves were never above making use of any parts on hand if there were a shortage of the "right" parts, and these never make their way into the parts books unless they involved large numbers of vehicles, in which case they are usually just listed as "alternatives".

John

Thanks John and Arthur, very interesting.

[S3ute]

Hello from Brisbane.

As Arthur has suggested in a few posts above the fully floating axles were fitted to the last of the locally assembled Series 1 short wheelbase vehicles.

My cousin still has one of the last of the Series 1 trucks that came fitted with these axles from new.

Cheers

[Loubrey]

Just adding my little 88" to the list...

VIN: 143800452
Engine: 141802335

Cheers,

Loubrey

[rfurzer]

I have (another) series one project. This time a 109. James Taylor's book says the chassis is 1957 but it has a 1418 prefix 2 litre.

[Old58]

Hi I have just bought an old 1958 swb diesel. Chassis number 148800028. It has a later engine 27105611 which I believe is a 2.25 diesel. Does anyone know where I could find a 2L of that year so I can restore my landrover back to original? My number is 0428769335.

[sheepman]

I have just bought an Australian import to here in UK which is a 107" '56 engine number 141801695 I believe this may not be original but it is a 2 litre spread bore which would have been fitted into a S2.

Chassis number 277601079 if anyone can supply more info that would be great!

[russellrovers]

Hi I have just bought an old 1958 swb diesel. Chassis number 148800028. It has a later engine 27105611 which I believe is a 2.25 diesel. Does anyone know where I could find a 2L of that year so I can restore my landrover back to original? My number is 0428769335.yes i have engines here and all parts jim