SteveP's SII 88 Fire Engine

[stevep]

Hi Diana,

Can't really help but I have a 1958 SWB chassis no. 142800417 but has a holden engine :(. I don't even know what engine it is supposed to have but I assume a 2L but I dont see any sign of where the electric fuel pump should have been bolted on the bulkhead. bell housing bolts are to suit a 2L. A guy in NZ has some photos on the Series 2 UK site of a 2L can't remember the engine number but it's a 1418

regards
Steve

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Thanks Steve

That's an interesting chassis number, SII RHD Export. Do you know any of it's history?

I can tell you that it originally had engine 141801829 a spread bore 2 litre by our reckoning.

Have you ever wondered about the remnants of red colouring?

Don't let Ellard hear about it, because it was oraginally a fire engine with a truck cab. Given it's date I would guess an original Rover factory FE.

It was first owned by the Research School Physical Sciences delivered 25/7/1958

[bobslandies]

Hi Diana,

Can't really help but I have a 1958 SWB chassis no. 142800417 but has a holden engine :(. I don't even know what engine it is supposed to have but I assume a 2L but I dont see any sign of where the electric fuel pump should have been bolted on the bulkhead. bell housing bolts are to suit a 2L. A guy in NZ has some photos on the Series 2 UK site of a 2L can't remember the engine number but it's a 1418

regards
Steve

Hi Steve,

142800417 should have eng 141801829 delivered 25.7.58 to Research School of Physical Sciences - was a Red Fire Engine - Metal Top Cab key looks like FP695.

Research School of Physical Sciences is part of the Australian National University. For some details see here:
http://heritage.anu.edu.au/site1/_includes/Files/430_RSPhysSE.pdf
Any chance of some pics?

There's a plus for Wayne too!!!!

Bob

[stevep]

I don't know if it makes sense but my gearbox number is a 1519 with chassis 1428. I just thought it had been replaced at sometime. So I could not figure out what was the original engine.

regards
Steve

[stevep]

Thanks Diana & Bob, for that info - Absolutely FANTASTIC :)

Rumour has it that it was owned by the NSW bush fire brigade at Cowra. Did have a PTO on originally but nothing else to say it's a fire engine except being red all over - even inside some rims. Only other thing was that the chain holders for the tail gate were never bolted to the tub only had pilot holes were they should go. On the weekend I picked up a 2.25 engine but its 252 series number - at least it's better than a holden. The key doesn't work & can't remember the number but will check again - any key works that fits into the keyway.

thanks again
regards
Steve

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members/stevep-albums-series+2+1958-picture1888t-dsc02134.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members/stevep-albums-series+2+1958-picture1888-dsc02134.html)http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members/stevep-albums-series+2+1958-picture2002t-dsc02219.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members/stevep-albums-series+2+1958-picture2002-dsc02219.html)http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members/stevep-albums-series+2+1958-picture2001t-dsc02218.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members/stevep-albums-series+2+1958-picture2001-dsc02218.html)http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members/stevep-albums-series+2+1958-picture1999t-dsc02215.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members/stevep-albums-series+2+1958-picture1999-dsc02215.html)http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members/stevep-albums-series+2+1958-picture2000t-dsc02213.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members/stevep-albums-series+2+1958-picture2000-dsc02213.html)http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members/stevep-albums-series+2+1958-picture1887t-dsc02129.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members/stevep-albums-series+2+1958-picture1887-dsc02129.html)http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members/stevep-albums-series+2+1958-picture1889t-dsc02139.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members/stevep-albums-series+2+1958-picture1889-dsc02139.html)

[bobslandies]

Steve,

That's the great thing about AULRO - see what research and contacts can tell about the history of our vehicles.

I added in the earlier post that the Research School of Physical Sciences is part of ANU so an enquiry there may get you some more history.

Bob

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I don't know if it makes sense but my gearbox number is a 1519 with chassis 1428. I just thought it had been replaced at sometime. So I could not figure out what was the original engine.

regards
SteveSteve

I think your guestimate is pretty spot on. The gearbox prefix 1519 comes from a 1959 long wheel base. However outside the bellhousing differences between the 2 litre petrol and 2 1/4 litre petrol there is no difference between the two boxes.

Diana

[ellard]

Hi there

Welcome to the forum, and always keen to know of more fire engines in Australia.

You had better watch out as when you find one many more will show up in the shed.

possibly http://landrover.vlothuizen.nl/images/brochures/7005/redwing-01.jpg

All the best

Wayne

[russellrovers]

Steve,

That the great thing about AULRO - see what research and contacts can tell about the history of our vehicles.

I added in the earlier post that the Research School of Physical Sciences is part of ANU so an enquiry there may get you some more history.

Bob
can you ring regards parts jim 0428732001

[Lotz-A-Landies]

So Wayne, I guess you'd have the first aid tank, a spare pump and the valve control unit for Steve to fit wouldn't you?

If he pops over to Blinman next weekend, you can throw it in his trailer!

Diana :D

[stevep]

Hi all,

I could do with a new pump & valves :D - & I don't mind driving to Blinman over easter. My wifes comes from Adelaide so we could do a round trip & see her 91 year old dad - who by the way worked at Woomera in the 50's and can remember 2 new land rovers arriving there.

Also looked at the key barrel & it is FP695. We were trying to reason why the ANU would have a fire engine & all we can think of is in 1958, Canberra probably only had 1 fire station at Forrest which is on the other side of what is now the lake and Black Mountain near the ANU was all bushland.

Its great to know where she came from & now I can do some research to find some photos.

Steve

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Steve

I would assume that the Physical Sciences at question were actually the atomic research labs and as such would need on site rapid response, before the metropolitan brigade could arrive.

ANU would be the first place to visit for photographic history, particularly look for the construction phase of the particle accelerator headed by Sir Marcus Oliphant (one of the many scientists on the Manhattan Project during WWII)!

Diana

[stevep]

Diana
yes, that would be correct - & makes more sense.

Steve

[wrinklearthur]

Hi All

I'm enjoying this mystery, it has everything, have you checked the Landy with a Geiger counter yet ? :wasntme:

thanks everyone.

Cheers Arthur

[digger]

Thanks Steve

That's an interesting chassis number, SII RHD Export. Do you know any of it's history?

I can tell you that it originally had engine 141801829 a spread bore 2 litre by our reckoning.

Have you ever wondered about the remnants of red colouring?

Don't let Ellard hear about it, because it was oraginally a fire engine with a truck cab. Given it's date I would guess an orignal Rover factory FE.

It was first owned by the Research School Physical ???? delivered 25/7/1958



Try this...
History
Sir Mark Oliphant was the founder of the School and its first Director from 1950 to 1963. The school was originally called the "Research School of Physical Sciences" with "Engineering" being added to its title in 1990 ...

high powered stuff.. likely to have needed Fire tender on site...


but also (from ANU site timeline....
1957: Mt Stromlo Observatory formally becomes part of the ANU through association with the Department of Astronomy in the Research School of Physical Sciences.

1960: The ANU amalgamates with Canberra University College. CUC becomes the School of General Studies at the ANU and undergraduates become part of ANU life for the first time.

In 1960 the ANU still had its four central research schools, the John Curtin School of Medical Research (JCSMR), the Research School of Physical Sciences (RSPhysS), the Research School of Social Sciences (RSSS) and the Research School of Pacific Studies (RSPaS), while the School of General Studies had Faculties of Arts, Economics, Law and Science.

maybe it was at Mount Stromlo??

page here for further info on the original stuff (wikipedia)...

Research School of Physics and Engineering - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Homopolar_anu-MJC.jpg" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/Homopolar_anu-MJC.jpg/250px-Homopolar_anu-MJC.jpg"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/a/a8/Homopolar_anu-MJC.jpg/250px-Homopolar_anu-MJC.jpg

here for ANU history...

ANU History - Information Services@ANU (http://information.anu.edu.au/daisy/infoservices/273.html)

hope thats helpful.
Digger

[digger]

O00pps! posted on other thread before I read this one.... thought I was a genius thinking of the 'sciences' MMM seems not!!

Anyway, as posted on that thread at about this time

(from ANU site timeline....)
1957: Mt Stromlo Observatory formally becomes part of the ANU through association with the Department of Astronomy in the Research School of Physical Sciences.

this may also have been its posting??

[Lotz-A-Landies]

It's all right Digger we understand, but I have fixed the posting! :)

[Lotz-A-Landies]

<snip>
maybe it was at Mount Stromlo??

<snip>
hope thats helpful.
DiggerCould have easily been at Mount Stromlo or even Siding Springs Observatory up near Coonawheelbarrabran.

[stevep]

Wayne, Diana, & Digger - thanks for the info:thumbsup:, i have lots to read through. Hopefully I can find a photo. maybe she was at Mt Stromlo because it was surrounded by bushland as well. I found out the city fire brigade only had 3 engines & a water tanker based at Forrest & that would take a while to get to Mt Stromlo.

Wayne - were all fire engines - redwing & they added the PTO pump & valves - or did landrover factory make it with pumps & valves etc???

regards
steve

[stevep]

found these photos on the National Achives web site - first one is in sydney, next one is KS airport look at the first car sticking it's nose out a L/R maybe? last one is the canberra fire engine Dennis F12 in 1958.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members/stevep-albums-series+2+1958-picture2224t-fire-engine-sydney.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members/stevep-albums-series+2+1958-picture2224-fire-engine-sydney.html)http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members/stevep-albums-series+2+1958-picture2225t-ks-airport-1958.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members/stevep-albums-series+2+1958-picture2225-ks-airport-1958.html)http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members/stevep-albums-series+2+1958-picture2226t-canberra-fire-engine-1958.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members/stevep-albums-series+2+1958-picture2226-canberra-fire-engine-1958.html)

[peterg1001]

First one looks like a Land Rover, the second looks like a Studebaker.

BTW - I saw two Dennis fire engines sitting in a yard in South Nowra last weekend. Wouldn't that be a challenge?

Peter

[stevep]

Shonky,

what do you have to change to get the 2.25 to fit? just the bell housing?

Steve

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Steve

If you were going from 2 litre to 2 1/4 litre there are a few things. But you are going Holden to 2 1/4 so the radiator is the correct way around and the accelerator is on the same side, But you will need the linkages from the firewall.

You will also find that your radiator support/grill panel has been shortened to accommodate the extra length on the Holden. You may want to find an original unmodified panel and LH headlamp bucket to replace yours.

You also need the exhaust engine pipe for the 2 1/4 litre.

Diana

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I remember that station and control tower! :) Even remember it being de-commissioned in favour of the one near Kyeemah (that couldn't see the International).

Thanks for those images, brings back many memories and even WWII bombers being burned for fire training near the MWS&DB plant.

Diana

[MickS]

Same as my "Basil" mate...well done :)

[UncleHo]

G'day SteveP :)

I have just finished reading an article in the March 2011 Land Rover Monthly Mag and in it is a bloke from NZ that has 1958 Series 2 88" which predates the production run of series 2's the first production vehicles 142800001-2-3-4 which were built on 24 March 1958 his vehicle 14200016 with engine No 141800023 and gearbox No 141800011 was built on the 3rd of March 1958.

It is a very interesting article and it would be well worth the $9.95 to purchase the magazine it is the current one available in newsagents with a bright yellow NAS spec 90 on the front :D it goes into a fair bit of detail and is totally original with the spread bore motor and even states that the first 376 S2's built had a slightly different brake/clutch master cylinder
where is your chassis No ? this early one has it in the series 1 position upside down on the inside of left front spring hanger

cheers

[stevep]

Hi UncleHo,

he has a thread with photos on the Uk series 2 club forum, & I have had a couple of emails from him. His looks good & he has taken heaps of photos so that I can compare to mine. My brake cylinder is the not the same as his -- has one tube out the bottom & one on the side. I'll go down to the newsagent tomorrow & look for the mag.

My chassis no is on the front drivers side - outside & up the right way - not like his.

thanks
Steve

[Lotz-A-Landies]

G'day SteveP :)

I have just finished reading an article in the March 2011 Land Rover Monthly Mag and in it is a bloke from NZ that has 1958 Series 2 88" which predates the production run of series 2's the first production vehicles 142800001-2-3-4 which were built on 24 March 1958 his vehicle 14200016 with engine No 141800023 and gearbox No 141800011 was built on the 3rd of March 1958.
Uncle Ho

Can you check the article again?

14200016 is missing a digit. If truly a 1958 Export build then the missing digit is the 4th and should be an "8", so I suspect the number is 142800016.

It also seems strange that Export #16 would be built before Export #1; 2; 3; etc, are we sure that the author didn't mean that it was built before the Home market vehicles 141800001; 141800002; etc and that a batch of Export fire engines were built before Home market production commenced. Steve's vehicle is actually the last vehicle recorded in the Series 1 book, so it makes sense that Rover made these Export numbered fire engines first up.

Steve

You could check the Export Dispatch book at the Gaydon Museum, seeing that yours was fully assembled before being exported, there will be a lot of detail available, including the dates in and out. You can even purchase a birth certificate for yours. The dispatch book doesn't tell us a lot for people with CKD models.

Diana

[bobslandies]

Richard's Series 2 is indeed 142800016 and it was the first trial run down the production line "dispatched in" on 3 March 1958.

There is also quite a bit about it on the Series One Club Forum and a list of its components here:

Originality - The quest (http://www.lrsoc.com/forum/index.php'topic=4001.msg52703#msg52703;) Reply 71.

You have to register on the Forum to view it (no lurkers).

Bob

[drifter]

Steve, I may have a firewall linkage and a radiator support grill here. It might pay to catch up soonish.

[UncleHo]

G'day Lotz-A-Landies :)

Yes,I did indeed leave a digit out,I left the 8 out so it is 142800016 sorry about that, but I have to change from my reading glasses (Bi-Focals) to my Computer glasses (readers) and must have missed the error,I was also on the phone talking with another forum member.


cheers

[Col.Coleman]

Richard's Series 2 is indeed 142800016 and it was the first trial run down the production line "dispatched in" on 3 March 1958.

There is also quite a bit about it on the Series One Club Forum and a list of its components here:

Originality - The quest (http://www.lrsoc.com/forum/index.php'topic=4001.msg52703#msg52703;) Reply 71.

You have to register on the Forum to view it (no lurkers).

Bob

There are a few of us across all these forums, as we all recognise the username and vehicles. I remember when this vehicle turned up and Bulletproof posted for the first time. His restoration of his 80" is amazing. How a restoration should be, and shows a lifetime of acquired skills.

Some of you AULRO gurus need to get out a little more and see what the rest of the world is doing.


Nice little firetruck.

CC

[Lotz-A-Landies]

G'day Lotz-A-Landies :)

Yes,I did indeed leave a digit out,I left the 8 out so it is [COLOR=Blue]142800016 [COLOR=Black]sorry about that, <snip?>No problem at all UncleHo

At first I thought the number was a 1420 prefix (1960 Export) and was about to post that, however on second read the 1420 didn't make sense with the other assemblies. So I was very close to making a much bigger mistake than your minor typo.

Surprisingly, it turns out we are all fallible humans.

Diana :)

[drifter]

Steve, I may have a firewall linkage and a radiator support grill here. It might pay to catch up soonish.


:D Managed to get rid of a couple of items.

If anyone has the accelerator shaft and its mounting brackets that go across the front of the firewall behind the engine going spare, I am sure Steve will be a happy recipient. I'll look around for some, too.

He now has the carby bracket that mounts on the passenger-side guard and a front pipe for a S2a exhaust (needs minor repairs).

We can sort out a bell housing, too, once he gets to that part of the build.


It's all good.

[stevep]

Drifter John - thanks for those parts - it was great to meet you & have a chat. The radiator you gave me, is wider by about 50mm than the one in my car. They changed the brackets & did NOT cut the radiator support on the sides - only at the top by about 25mm. Headlight bowl was not cut either. So I shall recore the one you gave me or get a new one - see how the price works out. no photos 'cause the kids have the connection cord.:mad:

The bulkhead has the bolt holes for the carby linkages in the right places as per the photos of yours, so just need to source those parts.

thanks again
Steve

PS - thanks for the info on the LROC of ACT 1982 - it did bring back some memories - just reading thru the list of members, i can remember peoples faces & trips we went on.

regards
Steve

[stevep]

I thought I would resurrect this thread with a few photos. I haven't done much for the last six months but I am ready to start it going again.
Have striped a few things off, just need to move the bulkhead & prepare the chassis. I have to clean up around the place & get organized so i can get into it.:) Thanks to a few PM's from Drifter I have got the bug again.

regards
Steve
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/02/1434.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/02/1435.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/02/1436.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/02/1437.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/02/1438.jpg[/IMG]
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/02/1439.jpg

[drifter]

:thumbsup:

[ellard]

Hi there Steve

Sorry for the late reply


Wayne - were all fire engines - redwing & they added the PTO pump & valves - or did landrover factory make it with pumps & valves etc

This is a touchy subject with some of the Land Rover Historians - but this is an extract from what i believe could be factual (and I am no expert)



From the outset the Land Rover was recognised as a ­suitable platform to mount such fire fighting gear and a fully equipped fire engine was soon a factory built option for the Land Rover after it was launched in 1948. Indeed, one of the earliest pre-production vehicles – chassis R06 – was converted into a fire engine soon after the Land Rover launch.

Production models were made available from 1949 and were fitted with a PTO-driven centrifugal pump and a small onboard water tank. They could quickly put up to 200 gallons of water per minute onto a fire, it being drawn from the mains, a convenient natural water supply or specially made pond. It would be sprayed either as water or mixed with a foaming compound carried on the appliance.
Available as a ready-built machine from the Solihull factory, they were produced on all the Series One wheelbases and for a short time on both the Series II 88" and 109" chassis. They found a ready-made market in this country, but also exported some abroad and sold still more to a number of government authorities.

They were, however, only ever vehicles that had a low sales volume. Perhaps there was also a realisation that Rover were better off just making the base vehicle, so leaving other companies to complete the modifications. If the finished vehicle types were then approved by the factory, all the warranty aspects applicable to the base vehicle would still be honoured.


So in brief there were a few early Series II Fire enignes made which were factory (and there is only a handfull in Australia) but Land Rover stopped making Factory fire Engine 1960"s. I do like your little truck - but there is alot you need to get it back to its former glory.

I will confess even I am now finding it difficult to find things (lockers, tanks & guage pannels can be re-fabricated but pumps & hose reels are rare)

Fore example I have been on the scrounge for a hose reel for 18 months - they are difficult to find (just not in the right place at the right time)

This is a scanned copy of the original Factory fire Engine configerations (LWB & SWB, which they call regular )

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/02/1431.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/02/1432.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/04/891.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/02/1433.jpg

All the best

Wayne

[ellard]

Another thing to add Steve

Is there any holes in the front wings - where the suction hoses lay around the bonnet - attached is a picture of my series I (See the galv hardware)?

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/02/1430.jpg

The best collection of Land Rover fire Engines - is in NZ

Check these sites out

http://www.111emergency.co.nz/S-W/VintageFire1960.htm (http://www.111emergency.co.nz/S-W/VintageFire1960.htm)

http://www.111emergency.co.nz/S-W/VintageFire1950.htm (http://www.111emergency.co.nz/S-W/VintageFire1950.htm)


All the best

Wayne

[stevep]

Thanks Wayne for those posts. It was interesting to see photos of your fleet & the the NZ fire engines.

There are no holes in the front wings for the suction hose brackets - only two in the passenger side - one aerial & one wing mirror maybe.
no holes in the drivers side at all only about 10 pop rivets. But the bumper has two holes just to the drivers side of the crank handle which perhaps is for the vertical stay.

regards
Steve

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Hi Steve

Just a few images you may not have seen:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/02/1278.jpg

There is also an image of the Pre-production 80 Fire Engine at the 1948 London Motor Show in brizzlebornandbred's Flickr folder but I am unable to view Flickr at work

Diana