V8 eng oil change questions

[northiam]

Where do I purchase other than a LR dealer a sump plug sealing washer?
Whats it made from paper, copper, nulon? Size?
Does it have to be replaced?

You can buy 6ltr containers of oil, is this enough for a filter & oil change?

Mineral, semi syn or synethic oil?
I've been told to use mineral in flat tappet cam engine?


Lubricity: Engine Oil | Land Rover Days (http://roverdaze.wordpress.com/lubricity/)

[Pedro_The_Swift]

I would suggest a read through
The Good Oil forum,,

[simonl8353]

Where do I purchase other than a LR dealer a sump plug sealing washer?
Whats it made from paper, copper, nulon? Size?
Does it have to be replaced?

You can buy 6ltr containers of oil, is this enough for a filter & oil change?

Mineral, semi syn or synethic oil?
I've been told to use mineral in flat tappet cam engine?


Lubricity: Engine Oil | Land Rover Days (http://roverdaze.wordpress.com/lubricity/)

V8 or TD5??

The V8 Sump Plug Washer is aluminium Part No. ALU1403L cost about $1-$3. On the last service and after close inspection I re-used mine only because I didn't plan ahead. If possible plan ahead and get a new one.
For 4.0 V8 oil you could try Valvoline Durablend 10W-40 Synthetic Blend or Castrol GTX3 15W-40 or Penrite HPR10 10W-50 Semi-Synthetic. I have tried the first two and tend toward the GTX3. But, as long as you change it regularly any of these would work well (for the V8) IMHO.

as for quantity, you will need two of these Castrol GTX Modern Engine Engine Oil - 15W-40, 5.5L - Supercheap Auto Australia (http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/online-store/products/Castrol-GTX-Modern-Engine-Engine-Oil-15W-40-5-5L.aspx?pid=280130#Description)
which will give you about 4L of spare for top-ups ;) or to put towards the next change.

I think you need the RAVE CD from this site, great reference info and the bible for all things D2.

Good luck

[imatt]

I use Castrol Magnatec in my V8, you will need a couple of containers to do a change the first time but next time you should have enough left over to only buy one container. I've bought V8 service kits off ebay that come with oil and air filter as well as the washer for the sump plug and they work out good value.
Cheers Matt

[clubagreenie]

There's a washer?

[p38arover]

I haven't replaced a washer in the past 45 years of changing oils in cars. Wait, make that 50+ years. I forgot I got my first car in 1960.

I put Aviation Gasket Cement #3 on the threads.

http://www2.blackwoods.com.au/infoBANK/ProductImg/3J.jpg

[northiam]

yes there's a washer :confused: gasket whatever!
I,m over 100ks to a LR dealer, seems to far for a washer!
The ebay kits do seem ok value but i.ve already got the air filter
Thanks

[PhilipA]

The old RRc 3.9 has a steel sump and a collapsable copper washer. i also forget to get them, and I use a bit of Loctite Thread Sealant on it as well as the diffs and transfer.
Regards Philip A

[imatt]

Last oil change I did, I did not have a spare washer, my neighbour gave me a spare he had from another car so surely any auto parts supplier would have something similar. To be honest like others have said I would see no real problem with recycling the washer a couple of times.
Cheers Matt

[mandala1111]

Just purchased a really nice 3.9 from Murray at Jag/Rover spares in Brisbane with only 70,000 kms on it.Inside the rocker covers is so clean it looks almost new,a light golden colour and I want to keep it that way.I have been doing a lot of research into oils for a flat tappet engine like the Rover due to cam wear prone on these cars.I have found out that most new engine oils have lowered the zinc and phosphorus levels which help prevent early cam wear.The oils I have found so far with good levels of these compounds are: Penrite have a few to choose from just look at their website and download the specs data. Valvoline Synpower has 1200 ppm of zinc which is around the minimum recommended amount.Also a lot of different brand race oils are worth a look.I am yet undecided but the Synpower looks good to me as I want to try a synthetic oil.In regards to the sump seal ring,I agree with the aviation sealant on the treads as I have done the same for years and never had a leaky sump plug.also bearing grease can work well on the thread as most of us have some always handy.
Cheers Shane

[northiam]

Thanks man1
I was starting to think no one here had heard of this modern oil problems!
I used to drag race old V8 falcons that have these same cam where issues on recent oil.
My understanding is the zinc and phorous content in modern oil are to low for cast iron flat tappet camshafts. Also semi and syn oils are to slippery, friction is need at the cam lobe to rotate the lifter in its bore, if did doesnt it would last no time at all.
Worn camshafts and burnt valves are all problems for dino engines with modern unleaded fuel and low zinc/phr oils.
When ford updated their 1960,s windsor pushrod engines they fitted a roller cam, rover no such thing!

I found Penrite HPR30 seems to meet the requirements.
If someone had the measurements of the sealing ring that would be great.

[mandala1111]

Thanks man1
I was starting to think no one here had heard of this modern oil problems!
I used to drag race old V8 falcons that have these same cam where issues on recent oil.
My understanding is the zinc and phorous content in modern oil are to low for cast iron flat tappet camshafts. Also semi and syn oils are to slippery, friction is need at the cam lobe to rotate the lifter in its bore, if did doesnt it would last no time at all.
Worn camshafts and burnt valves are all problems for dino engines with modern unleaded fuel and low zinc/phr oils.
When ford updated their 1960,s windsor pushrod engines they fitted a roller cam, rover no such thing!

I found Penrite HPR30 seems to meet the requirements.
If someone had the measurements of the sealing ring that would be great.
I have read a few good things about Penrite HPR 30 and the zinc and phosphorus levels are good,maybe even a little too high as too much can also leave deposits on the cylinders and the valves,also doesn't have a very good cold start rating.I like to get a thinner oil that gets to the engine parts on start up as quickly as possible.Still searching for the right oil.Interesting statement about the synthetics being too slippery?
Cheers
Shane

[northiam]

I have read a few good things about Penrite HPR 30 and the zinc and phosphorus levels are good,maybe even a little too high as too much can also leave deposits on the cylinders and the valves,also doesn't have a very good cold start rating.I like to get a thinner oil that gets to the engine parts on start up as quickly as possible.Still searching for the right oil.Interesting statement about the synthetics being too slippery?
Cheers
Shane
sorry I was thinking of my falcon:confused:
HPR 10 I should say
Im looking at Nulon 15w 40
15W-40 Modern Everyday Engine Oil - Nulon Products Australia (http://www.nulon.com.au/products/15W-40_Modern_Everyday_Engine_Oil/)

It turns out the D2 I've recently bought used Mobil 1 only by the original owner and had a cam replaced at 140,000km!

[mandala1111]

sorry I was thinking of my falcon:confused:
HPR 10 I should say
Im looking at Nulon 15w 40
15W-40 Modern Everyday Engine Oil - Nulon Products Australia (http://www.nulon.com.au/products/15W-40_Modern_Everyday_Engine_Oil/)

It turns out the D2 I've recently bought used Mobil 1 only by the original owner and had a cam replaced at 140,000km!
Interesting about the Mobil 1.It is a great oil but think the zinc levels are really low.Great to hear some real feedback on oils.I have decided on the Penrite HPR 10 Gas seeing I am on LPG.It has 1220 ppm of zinc which seems right on the mark and has a viscosity rating of 10W-50.
Cheers
Shane

[Discobaker]

I'm running the Gulf Western brand oil, can't remember the specs off hand but can get them if your interested. It was recommended by another forum member in a previous thread. It's specifically designed for Race Engines, older engines & engines that run particularly hot which I believe the LR V8 does in our climate.
$17.00 or so for 5L from Safeway/Woolies, change every 5000kms. Does the trick for me :)
My 2c worth

[clubagreenie]

I've seen the base oil source for GW, you might want to rethink.

[Discobaker]

I've seen the base oil source for GW, you might want to rethink.

There's a couple of other guys on here using it bud, please explain :)

[clubagreenie]

Well oils ain't oils. For instance I no longer use castrol (even their apparent race base oils) as it's all BP stock now, not created/blended by castrol tech. Last I saw they were buying their oil (pre blended) from other stocks whose bases aren't raw stock.

Changing at 5000k might be ok, I used to do so with better oils.

[PhilipA]

AAAAARGH!
Another oil thread!
Started as the longest thread in history about a sump plug washer then morphed into another oil thread!

IMHO it doesn't matter what you use as long as you change it regularly in a V8. I have never looked for high zinc etc( but I guess have by coincidence used Valvoline 15-40 recently).

I pulled my cam at 200KK and it was worn a bit but really fine, and before I got the car the guy only changed at 10K for 67K of the car's life. I still havent got the crap off the bottom of the dipstick.
So don't stress , be happy!
Regards Philip A

[northiam]

The zinc and phosphorus contents have been steadily reduced over the years to meet environmental concerns. The higher concentrations of these these elements are detrimental to the operation and longevity of catalytic converters and oxygen sensors in our cars.
The auto manufacturers and governments have emissions and the environment high in there priorities, rightly so.
For us who drive dated cars or modern cars using dated engine technology (flat tappet cams) a few compromises must be made. Using a suitable motor oil will help against premature cam wear. Budget for a replacement camshaft and lifters every 100k or so, replace the catalytic converter and hego every so often.

Or being new to LR's and here, cross our fingers, don’t question the high camshaft failures in Land rovers and don’t start another thread about oil! :)

[mandala1111]

AAAAARGH!
Another oil thread!
Started as the longest thread in history about a sump plug washer then morphed into another oil thread!

IMHO it doesn't matter what you use as long as you change it regularly in a V8. I have never looked for high zinc etc( but I guess have by coincidence used Valvoline 15-40 recently).

I pulled my cam at 200KK and it was worn a bit but really fine, and before I got the car the guy only changed at 10K for 67K of the car's life. I still havent got the crap off the bottom of the dipstick.
So don't stress , be happy!
Regards Philip A
Wisdom is a wonderful thing.I like to be aware of what my actions are and in this instance it is in regards to a wise choice of oil for my beloved car that works hard for me and I want to put the right things into her so she's with me for a long time. Also Philip A it started with a question about oil as well as the plug washer.Sounds like you might be one of the lucky one's and have unknowingly just chosen a decent oil.I have been told by a couple of Land Rover Guru's up here to get a good oil with zinc in it and you are doing your engine a favour.
Cheers
Shane

[PhilipA]

But AFAIR there are lots of posts on this and in much more detail with additional expert input.
A search would reveal all.
Regards Philip A

[mandala1111]

Yes it has been done with lots of good info.Cheers

[clubagreenie]

Can you get zinc as an additive?

[Pedro_The_Swift]

FWIW I did over 150K in my D1 using HPR30, never used any oil between changes, and at 250K had no rattles or smoke.
I dont consider HPR to be any great shakes, it was changing it every 5K that made last,,(and thats 30 changes and I DONT remember buying any washers)

The bloody things probably still running around out in the goldfields;)

[northiam]

FWIW I did over 150K in my D1 using HPR30, never used any oil between changes, and at 250K had no rattles or smoke.
I dont consider HPR to be any great shakes, it was changing it every 5K that made last,,(and thats 30 changes and I DONT remember buying any washers)

The bloody things probably still running around out in the goldfields;)

HPR 30 has a higher zinc content that most :cool:

http://www.penriteoil.com.au/tech_pdfs/177%20LATEST%20ZINC%20LEVELS.pdf

[shaunp]

Max zinc levels are mandated for certain viscosity values of oils. Penrite oils are exempt due to the fact that they don't follow normal ratings ie rather than 10/40 they make 10/50 hense they can do as the choose. I've used HPR 30 in my 3.9 Disco since 97. It's done 235k now.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

If I remember correctly Shaun,,
(and it was a while ago---;))
you are to "blame" for my D1's longevity,,,:lol2::BigThumb:

[northiam]

Max zinc levels are mandated for certain viscosity values of oils. Penrite oils are exempt due to the fact that they don't follow normal ratings ie rather than 10/40 they make 10/50 hense they can do as the choose. I've used HPR 30 in my 3.9 Disco since 97. It's done 235k now.

Ive used it for years in my old falcon but isnt HPR 30 a little heavy (thick) for a v8 99 D2?

[mandala1111]

IMHO 10W-40 or 15W-40 oil has been better for me.At start up especially except in the warmer months then thicker is fine and that was living in Queensland.I had an old 2 door 3.5 classic years ago that ran a bit quieter and smoother on a 10w oil than a 20W and the same for the Rangie 3.9 I have just had for 4 years.I found cold morning starts quieter especially.I do know Hpr 30 has been popular with many.The Penrite 10W-50 semi synthetic seems like a good choice and has a zinc rating at 1140 ppm and the gas 10 is at 1240 ppm.I have not used Penrite before but am about to try their 10W gas.Also true as stated that Penrite have rated most of their oils to overcome the API ratings and scrape through the red tape.
Cheers
Shane

[clubagreenie]

Is it possible to use these "gas" oils that seem to have a higher zinc content in a standard petrol application?

[mandala1111]

It is not necessarily the gas oils that have a higher zinc level.Diesel oils seem to be fine but only if the engine is presently clean internally/low kms due to the extra cleaning additives and the risk of dislodging any particles that presently could be preventing possible oil leaks or the chance of blocking oil galleries.Get on the Penrite site and go through their bulletins for some good information.The HPR10 gas states that it is suitable for petrol and diesel engines.

[PhilipA]

Have any of you read the Bob is The Oil Guy site?
Very informative .
I suggest you-all read it before discussing oils.
Welcome (http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/)
Regards Philip A

[mandala1111]

Have any of you read the Bob is The Oil Guy site?
Very informative .
I suggest you-all read it before discussing oils.
Welcome (http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/)
Regards Philip A
Yes I have plus many other great articles on oil.Philip A you keep coming in with these 1 liners,whats the go there.We are just expressing our own experiences.Lighten up.

[PhilipA]

We are just expressing our own experiences

I am just trying to help spread helpful facts as I have done on previous threads. I am surprised that you appear annoyed that I have posted what is considered generally as the best oil education site on the internet. Your posts seem very sensible and agree with what Bob et all says .

I believe one fact is worth 1000 opinions and that threads like this can misdirect people who read them . I also started using HPR 30 for example when I first started on this forum based on what people had posted until I studied the subject .

For example I believe most would not use the extra heavy oils that Penrite seem to market as a Unique Selling Proposition if they read the expert appraisel of needed viscosities on BOB the Oil Guys Site (and others).
I know I changed my mind and now use max 10-40 or 15-40 as Dr Haas discusses in oils 101.
The MAKER of the car recommends 15-40 to max 20-50. Why second guess the maker and every other oil company and use HPR 30?? ,a 20-60 oil?

As I posted many years ago I once drove from Amman in Jordan to Riyadh in Saudi in one day in 1985, 1940Kms using what was then good oil Shell Helix 20-50 in 40-55C ambient temperatures with no ill effects in a RRC. No synthetics in those days. I did then compare as the oil light started coming on and I rebuilt the engine, when it turned out to be just the oil sender.LOL These conditions are far harder than in Australia.


My message I think from the start was not to stress about it as , that things like who has the most zinc are irrelevant as long as a quality oil is used and the oil is changed regularly with an oil grade recommended by the maker of the car.

I guess it is no big deal, as heavy oils will not HURT the car much, just increase start up wear and reduce fuel economy, but hey we are here to help, hopefully with facts.

Regards Philip A

[mandala1111]

Sorry Philip A.I had a rough day and It was just your comment stating that no one should comment until a certain web site was read that got me,it sounded like you were taking the micky out of the comments in this thread.I admit my knowledge on oil is limited but I always do my research first and have my own experiences over the years.I agree Bob the oil guy is a good site with some helpful information.I have been working on and modifying my own 4WD's for the last 24 years including 2 ground up rebuilds,1 being an old Daihatsu F10 that ended up being heavily modified with not much Daihatsu left except for the diffs and axles and body and the second a classic 2 door Rangie and my current project is a 95 V8 Disco.I have learned a lot in those years and still learning.I appreciate your input and everyone else on here and I do agree with you that some of the information can be a bit misleading.This is why I never take 1 comment as gospel and keep researching something until I am happy with my decision and would advise others to do the same.May all beings be happy.:D
Regards
Shane

[shaunp]

If I remember correctly Shaun,,
(and it was a while ago---;))
you are to "blame" for my D1's longevity,,,:lol2::BigThumb:

Yeah you could be right
I've mostly only used 2 types of oil in 26 years of driving. BP Corse +, Dad worked at the Brisbane refinery, use to get dented 20l drums cheap, and Penrite. mostly used HPR 15 in winter and HPR30 in summer, in the Disco. I've run HPR in big $ engines and never had a problem. Jags stock and worked, heavily worked, holden red motors 6&8, Windsor V8s etc. Never had any issues. LR v8s are old school, even the later ones, thin oil is speced to type and get extra fuel econ, easier to pump around. PM make some high zinc oil to but it's $$$.

[scarry]

My brother has had a '93 3.5l V8 D1 since it had 30k on the clock.At300k he replaced the head gaskets as they had been weeping coolant for a few years.He took the cams to get checked for wear & they were good.It also uses around 1 litre of oil every 10k.

The only oil he ever used in the engine is the cheap Mobil oil from K Mart,changed every 10K.

[clubagreenie]

I'd always used HPR30 for racing/performance apps and found it fairly without equal. But recently (last 5 years) used Brad Penn oils for all racing and high (10,000rpm + ) apps and it's fantastic. Just looked up its properties and it's well up their in the zinc & phosphorus levels. Zinc at over 1500ppm and phosphorus over 1300ppm. Hadn't looked at it's specific properties but the machinist/part builder (Wayne Smith Engine Research) recommended it. It's a bit more than ordinary oils but last time I purchased it was about $130- for 11.3 lt (12 x 1qt bottles) so at $11.50/lt it's probably on par with the more expensive oils. Good thing s the distributor is 5min away.

Can you go over the top with these levels? They have a note on their site as follows:

"Please Note:
Penn Grade 1 High Performance Oils contain high zinc and phosphorous additive concentrations which can be detrimental to cars and trucks with catalytic converters. For our Brad Penn Synthetic Blend and Premium Passenger Car Motor oils more suitable for use in vehicles with catalytic converters"

[shaunp]

I'd always used HPR30 for racing/performance apps and found it fairly without equal. But recently (last 5 years) used Brad Penn oils for all racing and high (10,000rpm + ) apps and it's fantastic. Just looked up its properties and it's well up their in the zinc & phosphorus levels. Zinc at over 1500ppm and phosphorus over 1300ppm. Hadn't looked at it's specific properties but the machinist/part builder (Wayne Smith Engine Research) recommended it. It's a bit more than ordinary oils but last time I purchased it was about $130- for 11.3 lt (12 x 1qt bottles) so at $11.50/lt it's probably on par with the more expensive oils. Good thing s the distributor is 5min away.

Can you go over the top with these levels? They have a note on their site as follows:

"Please Note:
Penn Grade 1 High Performance Oils contain high zinc and phosphorous additive concentrations which can be detrimental to cars and trucks with catalytic converters. For our Brad Penn Synthetic Blend and Premium Passenger Car Motor oils more suitable for use in vehicles with catalytic converters"
Won't hurt the engine just the cats over time.

[clubagreenie]

What cats? :wasntme:

[northiam]

No cats? Is this allowed?

I'll be going with the HPR 5W-40 or 10W-50 I think!

This link seems to answer all our questions

Thanks

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