No Clutch

[grey_ghost]

Hi All,

I'm a newbee here - so sorry if this has been covered before.. I had a quick look on the forum (search) and couldn't find what I was looking for.

I have a 61 Series II - it has the setup with shared clutch/brake fluid container/master cylinder?

Went to move the Landy today and no clutch - pedal straight to the floor.

The brakes seem ok - so I thought that it could be the slave cylinder? I assume if the master is stuffed then the brakes would also be a problem?

So I thought that I would top-up the fluid & bleed the system.

First question - what fluid should I be using?
Second question - am I on the right track?

Worst case I figured that I could replace the master cylinder, and then the slave cylinders for the brake/clutch, and then bleed all systems - but I didn't want to go to that extreme first off...

As always - any help is greatly appreciated!

[drifter]

While it uses the same 'container' for the fluid, there are two separate master cylinders - one for the brake and one for the clutch.

You should be able to follow the hose from down at the slave cylinder up to a mount point on the firewall and up from there to the clutch master cylinder.

When you opened the fluid container, did you look inside it? There is actually two reservoirs in there - a centre one that contains the clutch fluid and the rest of it that is used for the brakes. The centre clutch one looks like a tube coming up towards you. Was it full?

Can you get someone to pump the clutch pedal while you stick your head underneath to see if the slave cylinder is working?

Can you see the rod that goes from the bottom of the slave cylinder into the side of the bell housing? Is it rotating when the clutch is pressed?

I would have a look at those first (others may do it differently).

I use Heavy Duty Dot 4 fluid from Super Cheap Auto in mine.

Hope this helps,

[wagoo]

If the hydraulics check out ok, there are 2 drive pins on what looks like a piece of pipe sticking out the r/h/side of the bell housing that the slave cylinder lever attaches to. It is quite common for the inner pin to shear when worn.
Wagoo.

[wrinklearthur]

Hi grey_ghost

Welcome aboard !

With the model you have, the reservoir for the brake fluid has two pipes attached, the bottom pipe feeds the brake master cylinder and the side pipe that feeds the clutch master cylinder.
These pipes are arranged so that the clutch fails first if a leakage occurrs.

If something ain't broke, then don't fix it !
Unless the fluid hasn't been changed for some years, there is no need to touch the brake circuit.

Find the leakage then decide whether you need to renew just the cylinder rubbers or replace the cylinder entirely.

Cheers Arthur

[wrinklearthur]

If the hydraulics check out ok, there are 2 drive pins on what looks like a piece of pipe sticking out the r/h/side of the bell housing that the slave cylinder lever attaches to. It is quite common for the inner pin to shear when worn.
Wagoo.

Good point Fellows, those pins are a weakness and do fail on a series two also.

Those pins can be a problem to replace, I have replaced them many times on series one land rovers, as they have a mechnical linkage that passes through the chassis so with the movement of the engine, they probably fail a bit quicker than the series two hydraulic systems.

I have replaced the pins from underneath the vehicle, not a nice job with all sorts of farm residues falling down on your face!
It's a bit easier if you pull the floor out and work from the insde of the vehicle.

Cheers Arthur

[wagoo]

Good point Fellows, those pins are a weakness and do fail on a series two also.

Those pins can be a problem to replace, I have replaced them many times on series one land rovers, as they have a mechnical linkage that passes through the chassis so with the movement of the engine, they probably fail a bit quicker than the series two hydraulic systems.

I have replaced the pins from underneath the vehicle, not a nice job with all sorts of farm residues falling down on your face!
It's a bit easier if you pull the floor out and work from the insde of the vehicle.

Cheers Arthur

G'day Arthur. Those pins last a heck of alot longer if you replace the 9'' coil spring pressure and clutch plate with the 9 1/2'' diaphram clutch assembly.You must use the pressure plate with the thrust pad fitted to the diaphram fingers or things get weird though.
Since doing that I haven't broken a pin in over ten years, despite much more frequent use of the clutch in the past 3 years using my vehicle for pulling acres of Ti tree out of the ground whilst clearing up my property.
Wagoo.

[JDNSW]

As above - first check fluid reservoir - if it is not full in the centre section, fill and try bleeding on the slave cylinder. This will probably get it going again, for long enough to order a new master or slave cylinder, depending on where the fluid has leaked (usually pretty obvious - it does not disappear!).

As indicated, the other possibility is that one of the pins coupling the clutch release shaft to the slave cylinder bell crank may be broken. In this case, the slave cylinder piston will probably have been pushed down as far as it will go, and is staying there, as there is no spring to bring it back. But if the slave cylinder piston is pushed up, the pedal will push it down again.

Easiest to remove the driver's floor to work on this. Even though it does not look like it, it is possible to replace the inner pin without removing the gearbox! Use the correct pin - this is under considerable load, and the pin is hardened. If you simply use the first available bolt, you may be lucky and get a few day's use out of it, or you may only get a few minutes!

John

[wrinklearthur]

Hi grey_ghost

Welcome aboard !

With the model you have, the reservoir for the brake fluid has two pipes attached, the side pipe feeds the brake master cylinder and the bottom pipe that feeds the clutch master cylinder.
These pipes are arranged so that the clutch fails first if a leakage occurrs in the clutch hydraulics.

If something ain't broke, then don't fix it ! Well I fixed it, that's the trouble with having a broken memory!
Unless the fluid hasn't been changed for some years, there is no need to touch the brake circuit.

Find the leakage then decide whether you need to renew just the cylinder rubbers or replace the cylinder entirely.

Cheers Arthur
Cheers again, Arthur

[wrinklearthur]

As above - first check fluid reservoir - if it is not full in the centre section, fill and try bleeding on the slave cylinder. This will probably get it going again, for long enough to order a new master or slave cylinder, depending on where the fluid has leaked (usually pretty obvious - it does not disappear!).

As indicated, the other possibility is that one of the pins coupling the clutch release shaft to the slave cylinder bell crank may be broken. In this case, the slave cylinder piston will probably have been pushed down as far as it will go, and is staying there, as there is no spring to bring it back. But if the slave cylinder piston is pushed up, the pedal will push it down again.

Easiest to remove the driver's floor to work on this. Even though it does not look like it, it is possible to replace the inner pin without removing the gearbox! Use the correct pin - this is under considerable load, and the pin is hardened. If you simply use the first available bolt, you may be lucky and get a few day's use out of it, or you may only get a few minutes!

John
Hi John

Im guilty! :angel:
The knotter shear bolts for a New Holland baler were just the thing to keep the old landy going, after the pins broke.
They were grade six bolts, and probably about the same hardness as the pins.
These jobs where only done on a holiday, the rest of the time no clutch till then.
And no brakes except the hand brake.
You may be getting the idea that the old Land Rover was a wreck, but living on a dairy farm you had to make do.
Cheers Arthur

[JDNSW]

Hi John

Im guilty! :angel:
......
Cheers Arthur

How do you think I know this!

John

[wagoo]

Just remembered that if one of the pins has broken, the clutch pedal will become rock solid in the up position if there is no return spring fitted to the slave cylinder lever.Once again assuming the hydraulics are ok.
Wagoo.