Puppy Cataracts

[101RRS]

My puppy is now 14 years old and is a bit deaf and has cataracts. She can still spot a cat at 100m but not the door at 1m - low light she sees nothing.

Things are not so bad at home except she trips over shoes a lot and runs into the occasional door. Away from home she has real problems and needs the reassurance of being on the lead to walk anywhere.

When the problem first arose I spoke to the vet and they said that they just remove the cataract lens but didn't put in a replacement so that while the milkiness would be gone the dog could still not focus. As a result I could not see the point in paying for the operation.

However, I have since found out that the Vet gave me wrong information :mad:and that a new lens can be inserted.

So has anyone had the cataracts removed in their dog and had a new lens put in? Was it successful and how expensive was the operation.

Thanks

Garry

[Randylandy]

My hound is exactley the same would also be interested.

[LandyAndy]

Hi Gary
Poor old dog is already 14,not too many years left.Old dogs dont handle the anesthetic too well at all and have a fair chance of not coming around after the operation.
Our last 2 Golden Retrievers had the same problem,they cope really well with their reduced eyesight,as long as you dont change obstacles around without telling them;););).We too toyed with the operation on both dogs,money wasnt an issue.They werent suffering in any way just had to makesure visitors were aware of their plight and didnt leave the gate open.
Andrew

[Slunnie]

14 is ok for the anaesthetic, lots at that age go under and I wouldn't let that be too much of a factor in the decision making process. The question is whats best for the pup. An operation and eye sight, or to be left. If there was time left in the pup (ie not a 14yo great dane) then I'd help the dog out under guidance from the vet.

[101RRS]

Thanks Andrew - as of right now doggie is in bad books and has been banishd to the back yard for a while - her life revolves around food and if I do not get her dinner when she thinks I should get it, she pees on the lounge room carpet - she does it as payback.

As far as anaesthetic is concerned - she nearly died when she was about 8 getting her teeth cleaned so she now gets a different anaesthetic that is easier on her system.

It sounds as if you dogs coped well - mine does reasonably well but I have a lot of stairs and they have caused problems - last year I think she fell and was paralysed for a week but recovered well.

Thanks

Garry

[p38arover]

So has anyone had the cataracts removed in their dog and had a new lens put in? Was it successful and how expensive was the operation.


If the technology is there, I would expect it to be expensive. I had it done on my left eye. I was 6 months without a lens in the left eye.

The result of having the lens fitted has been brilliant.

[101RRS]

If the technology is there, I would expect it to be expensive. I had it done on my left eye. I was 6 months without a lens in the left eye.

The result of having the lens fitted has been brilliant.

$25 in a third world country. My Mum has had hers done and she thinks it is great.

[101RRS]

New problem with doggie:mad:.

My doggie has always been a companion dog and has free range of the house and outside via a doggie door. She sleeps in the corner of the bedroom and has her own arm chair in the lounge room. She is fully house trained and even at 14 is fully continant.

Over the past year her life seems to revolve around food and she has become very annoying from around 5.30 in the afternoon as she wants dinner. Now I feed her when I get dinner at about 7.

Two weeks ago she peed on the carpet outside the kitchen where she gets feed - I believe as payback for not feeding her when she wanted. She has now done it a further three times all around 6-6.30 at night all on the carpet just outside the kitchen :mad:.

So I start feeding her at 6 and I still have dinner at 7 - but two days running she has now starting peeing just as I am finishing dinner - not only does she want her own dinner at 6, she now wants my dinner at 7.

Any suggestions would be welcome as this cannot continue.

In the absence of better advice - she will be now fed at 6 downstairs in the laundry and then banished outside until bed time. She will not like this as she has never been locked outside in the dark and cold. If she continues to wee in the house then she will banished for all time outside and after 14 years that will be hard for her as she wants to be around people.

Any thoughts greatfully accepted.

Garry

[abaddonxi]

Two small meals?

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Not on the peeing and meals issues but on the eyesight.

If you don't get the cataracts removed and replacement lenses inserted, there are a few rules. It's just like with blind people or significantly impaired vision.

Don't move things around the house, or place items in a path the dog usually uses. If you have steps or other obstacles like doors it is good to have them with significant contrast to the adjacent environment, like a thick brilliant white line on the edge of a step against a dark wooden deck. Remember dogs use smell as their primary sense, place something with a unique scent (in your house/garden) next to things like the steps or a doorway. In time the dog will learn to identify the scent and the obstacle.

Hope this helps.
Diana

[Slunnie]

I'd stick her nose in it, give her a smack, yell like a maniac, lock her out with no dinner for the night, clean up the mess, open beer.

When she pees on the carpet and you give her dinner as a result it rewards and reinforces the action of the dog. You need to make the consequence of the action not favourable. She'll learn pretty quickly even if shes a bit spiteful that peeing on the carpet causes trouble for her, not dinner. She also needs to remain at the bottom of the pecking order - you control the meals (top dog).

As an aside, my parents have a dog that does similar but not for food. It takes about 2 psycho episodes from me before she gets the message to bother going outside to the toilet when she comes to stay with me and its all sweet from there.

[101RRS]

Thankd for all the comments. Doggie normally has a chicken wing for breakfast and a mix of dry and wet doggie food in the evening. She goes outside to eat the chicken wing and I don't see her for 45mins.

So from now she will get a cup of dry food for brekkie, then at dinner time she can get the chicken wing which will keep her occupied for long while and with a bit of wet can food in her bowl keep her quiet for a bit longer.

We will see how that goes.

Diana thanks for the tips - I have already picked up on the contrast issues and try to keep the floor clear. I have also put some night lights in the halls that through shadows on the steps so she can see the contrast in light on the steps.

Cheers

Garry

[101RRS]

Doggie now gets banished to the laundry with her dinner at 5.30 - she has access to the backyard via a doggie door. After I have my dinner and have cleaned up she is allowed back into the house - all OK so far.

The only issue, she makes her displeasure known at being excluded with all her loud sooking and howling. However I think this will subside once she understands what the new routine is.

Garry

[Lucus]

I doubt at 14 years old the peeing on the carpet whilst waiting for dinner is out of spite. I'd say its more excitment about impending meal missed with old age and fading bladder control

My parents have a 13 year old beagle that has always been obsessed with food. He now displays similar behaviour to your dog around meal times (minus the peeing on the carpet)

My Mum's solution is to find him twice, before and after thier dinner, He thinks he's getting twice the food, but in reality he get two half serves.
He also get feed around 1730 and 1930, when he was younger dinner time was always 1930.

Keeps him quite and stops the begging at dinner time.

Our mastif X is now 5 and very vocal around dinner time. He now gets put outside as soon as my wife start preparing dinner. As soon as he hears the plates hit the sink the act starts, the sad face, the whining, the trying too look as malnourished as possible.... I ignore it till Im ready too feed him but I suspect on the 2 nights a week that Im away for work wifey crumbles and feeds him straight away :angel:

If get up first in the morning he doesnt move off his bed until I grab his bowl but as soon as my wife gets up he's 2 inches behind her lingering waiting for his breakfast:D

As with most dog behavioural issues (not that this is a major one) it seems mixed signal from the Owners is the main problem:wasntme::p

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I worked with a woman ho's Persian cat would pull the doona off her bed if she wasn't home at exactly 17:30hrs to feed the cat! :o

[101RRS]

Since the last post on my dog - I have tried a couple of things with some success.

First was taking doggie and her food down to the laundry where she has access to outside and leaving here there until after I had dinner and cleaned up - worked OK but doggie was not happy at all and made everyone in the neighbourhood well aware of here unhappiness.

The second is what I am doing now - at 5.45 I take doggie outside for a wee wee which she does happily. She is content when she comes inside but I make sure she is fed within 30 mins and I have mine soon after - all has been great since then.

Touch wood.

Thanks for all the advice.

Garry

[dullbird]

I'd stick her nose in it, give her a smack, yell like a maniac, lock her out with no dinner for the night, clean up the mess, open beer. Smacking a dog is not the right answer to any training. Neither is depriving it of its food, and dominating it by forcing its head down and rubbing its nose in it


When she pees on the carpet and you give her dinner as a result it rewards and reinforces the action of the dog. You need to make the consequence of the action not favourable. She'll learn pretty quickly even if shes a bit spiteful that peeing on the carpet causes trouble for her, not dinner. She also needs to remain at the bottom of the pecking order - you control the meals (top dog).

agree with this but not the rest

As an aside, my parents have a dog that does similar but not for food. It takes about 2 psycho episodes from me before she gets the message to bother going outside to the toilet when she comes to stay with me and its all sweet from there.

Lucy has totally hit the nail on the head I was going to say almost exactly the same thing in regards to the excitement but I was only going to add that perhaps due to her age she is not so good at holding that excitement in, she may not be incontinent but doesn't mean to say her bladder is as strong as it used to be.

I don't think dogs are clever enough to be deliberately spiteful..they can be naughty and cheeky but not spitful....with any sudden changes in behaviour (good or bad) that are out of the norm for a dog you know so well there is usually a reason for it. quite often its US that are the problem..the way we perceive these behaviours and the way we deal with them at the time..

more often than not it exacerbates the behaviour:)

[101RRS]

Very informative comment - I do think dogs can be vindictive if they do not get their way but of course there is no way to prove it - except through knowing and observing your own dog.

I don't think there is an excitement issue but rather an expectation issue. Also as indicated, she is not incontinent ,she also does not loose it if she gets excited - she easily holds it in in 6 hour trips in the car - when she gets excited she does not pee but she does forget she is 14yo and thinks she is a pup and runs up the stairs (usually trips) followed by a trip to the vet to get anti inflammatory drugs.

She has two meals a day and the morning meal is no issue - as soon as the sun goes down (5.00 in winter, 9.00 in summer) she starts to become restless and starts walking around and wimpering asking where dinner is but doesn't do it for breakfast where she either gets leftovers from the night before or a raw chicken wing - breakfast food is much yummier than dinner food for her.

I know some will think she does it as she excited to get dinner but I still think it is out of frustration that I will not give her dinner when she wants it - also she does not like dog food - human food for her - of course she only gets human food if there are left overs and even if the doggie food is out (except for mushie can crap) she leaves it until she understands there is nothing better on offer. Her favourite human food is Maccas.

Thanks for all the comment - very informative.

Cheers

Garry

[dullbird]

That sounds like one VERY spoilt dog there Gary...hahahahahahahah:D

ideally you shouldn't feed human junk food to a dog...well most human foods shouldn't really be given to dogs as they don't break down the fats that are present in our foods easily I'm led to believe.

Also dogs dont really have much concept of time. so a breakfast will not necessarily lead to anticipation like an evening meal will because and evening meal can be associated with it getting dark, hence the anticipation.

did you notice whether the behaviour has increased as the nights are getting earlier?
My dogs do exactly the same thing by the way, they get fed at 7 but as soon as it gets dark to them its feed time so start getting restless around 5:30.

Also garry I did actually say that you said she wasn't incontinent, was just pointing out that as dogs get older they may not involuntary wet themselves but can sturggle to hold on as long as they did as young dogs.

But leading back to my theory were we need to take a look at our selves I think one of the biggest problems garry maybe the way you treat your dog. A little too like a human perhaps???

However it does sound like your on the right track in regards to taking her to the toilet first...and then giving her a meal. by doing it that way your rewarding her for the toilet that she is doing outside of the house. at least your taking a very positive approach to things:) good on yeah!!

[101RRS]

You're probably right - have never tried to treat her as a human and as a result she has tended to know her place etc - however from time to time the resolve does fade when she looks at you with a stupid look on here face and she used to sleep on the bed but is now too old and fat to get up.

I used to feed her after I had my dinner - mainly because some expert said that to feed dogs before you would give them a superiority complex and making them wait until the "A" male had his fill is what would happen in the wild. So she has always been used to later times for feeding and after me. However as she got old she would clearly get anxious for dinner when the sun went down - so 5.30 - 6 in winter and 8-9 in summer. The problems only started a few weeks back and I am not sure what has triggered it but taking her outside on dark and feeding her seems to be working - she does seem less anxious.

Thanks for your comments - very helpful.

Cheers

Garry

[drifter]

You met the fat boy here - no, not me, you dolt, the 4-legged one - the other day.

He has worked out that dinner time is 6:30pm and if we don't have it ready for him, he puts on quite a performance (nothing bad, very amusing in fact). If events hold us up and his food isn't served until, say, 7pm he will ignore it completely.

Good to hear your pup is working with you in the new routine.

[101RRS]

Yes and when I got home my pup knew I had been playing with (more like mugged by) strange dogs - I got a good sniffing over.

[dullbird]

you got a picture of this well loved pet Garry?

[101RRS]

Here she is helping me test drive the 101

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/04082009002.jpg

[101RRS]

Just an update - doggie is no longer peeing on the carpet.

I started taking her outside at 5.45 for a pee and then feeding her within 1/2 hour. Now when I call her to go outside she gets all excited, I guess she has learnt that she will be fed soon. Indeed there have been a few times when right on time she has gone outside herself and has come back in a waited by her food bowl.

So who said you cannot train new dogs new tricks :).

Thanks for all the advice.

Garry

[101RRS]

Doggie had a little turn today - like a stroke - head tilted, looking at the sky, loss of coordination, disorientation, walks like a drunken sailor.

Straight down to the vet - diagnosed as Vestibular Syndrome and is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain and is quite common in both geriatric dogs and people. She also has faulty heart valves and rear molars are heavily tartared (mainly because she does not chew on them - she uses her front teeth to eat her daily chicken wing with. So there is a concern she could have a bacteria infection from either her teeth or heart valves that could have triggered this.

So doggie in on some steroids and anti-biotics but the vet indicated that it might be close to having to make that decision that we all do not want to make - a bit hard when 30mins before hand a had a 14 1/2 yo dog running around the house at full speed annoying everyone.

Anyway looking up Vestibular Syndrome on the net I found that it generally corrects itself in about 2 weeks but there may be a residual head tilt.

So has anyones doggie had Vestibular Syndrome and how did it work out for you.

Thanks

Garry

[Pedro_The_Swift]

sounds exactly like Burleigh,,
very lttle vision, no indication the dog knew you were there, no interest in food, aimless wandering around the house bumping into things,
this happened at around 4am, I hugged him and talked to him till the vets opened,,
:BigCry:

[101RRS]

Doggie still has major balance issues but while completely disorientated at the start she is slowly relearning her environment. He head is still tilted and stares at the sky but she has learnt where her food and water is but still falls over a lot when she walks. My house has three levels with three lots of internal stairs - it has taken her five days to relearn how to climb up and down but she has done it - no issues coming up but going down is more problematic as she falls over sometimes but now seems to have it sussed.

However she has relearnt her environment but is not actually getting better so we will have to see. She cannot be left alone for more than a couple of hours.

I think the end is not far off but not just yet.

Garry

[drifter]

so sad

Hang in there mate. Best wishes for doggie.

[101RRS]

Doggie just turned 15 and seems to be doing well - is now almost blind and can only hear higher frequencies so aural communications is by whistles. Her sniffer no longer seems to work too well but can still find Smackos hidden around the house.

She is able to take herself outside (three lots of steps - my house is tri-level) and when bored in the morning before I get up she takes great delight walking up and down the steps outside my room until I get up and give her some food. That vindictive streak is still there.

No longer pees when waiting for dinner, her balance is back and she seems happy - she sleeps most of the day except for mornings but gets very stressed when out of her known environment.

While there have been a couple of scares she seems to be coping with her twilight years reasonably well.

Garry

[101RRS]

Doggie now nearly 15 1/2 and last week had some bleeding from the mouth most likely caused by running into the open dish washer door while in the kitchen hunting for food.

Took her to the vet who reiterated that she has heart problems and even though she has a chicken wing or a Pedigree Dentine stick for breakfast her teeth were not good. So booked in today for xrays of her heart area and head and a teeth clean.

The results were that she has congestive heart failure and had a major infection of the bone in her roof mouth so had a canine removed - she did not cope well with the anaesthetic so is staying in recovery for an additional day.

Quoted costs go like -
Consultation $65
Blood Test $150
Initial round of antibotics $65
Anaesthetic $200
2x Xrays $400
Teeth Clean $200

Unquoted costs are expected to be.
Tooth extraction $200
Overnight stay and pain medication $150
Long term antibotics - Expensive
Long term heart medication Very Very expensive.

So a very expensive exercise for a dog that in all reality, even if in good health would most likely have less than 12 months - but what do you do.

Yet she is still able to climb and descend three flights of steps at home - I now carry her out and in about 5 times a day but she still does it on her own at times.

The costs of having an older pet should not be underestimated.

Garry

[101RRS]

Well my doggie turned 16 today.:)

She has dementia so doggie has lost most of her character - the lights are on but no one is home.

Her little docked tail does not wag anymore and while she clearly still loves a cuddle she would take it from anyone. She gets lost and confused easily and sleeps all day but is awake much of the night banging around into everything until I get up and reassure her and settle her back down.

The anaesthetic mentioned in the previous post clearly knocked her around permanently and while I mentioned she could still use the stairs - she is no longer able. She cut her foot in January and the vet just gave her light sedation rather than anaesthetic but she almost died with her needing stimulants to get her heart going - so any sort of anaesthetic in the future is a no no.

Her dementia, blindness, deafness and need to do a wee every 2 hours means that I have to carry her out - if I take her out at mid night she can get through to about 8 in the morning with an accident only once a week.

Have no doubt about it - looking after a geriatric dog is nearly as demanding as looking after geriatric humans. It impacts your life - in my case I cannot be away from home more than about 3 hours - so no 4wd trips.

However she seems really happy and enjoys a walk on the grass when she is out for a wee. Because of the dementia, when she is outside she barks at imaginary dragons which can cause issue when you have had to take her out for a wee at 3 in the morning when it is below freezing. Did get a bit of a scare last night at 3 in the morning when I could hear lions roaring over at the zoo about 4km away. They sounded a lot closer than that. Had a couple of nightmares afterwards.

Well unless something major happens I think she has a while to go yet.

Here she is directing operations in the 101

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/Forum%20Posts%20Album/IMG_0331-1_zpscf552336.jpg (http://s42.photobucket.com/user/gazzz21/media/Forum%20Posts%20Album/IMG_0331-1_zpscf552336.jpg.html)