A/C issue

[NomadicD3]

Hi All,
I recently noticed that the A/C in the 06 D3 tdv6 just stopped working. Interestingly it was working fine until a parked the car up for 3 days whilst I went to a job and when i got back i noticed that from the time i got in car it just wasn't working. The fan is working, it's just not getting cold. There is no extra noises from under the bonnet and plenty of gas , no leaks etc. I had it checked by a local auto elecy/ A/C specialist and tells me that the compressor is completely shot??? he went onto explain that the front of the compressor was all broken and somehow it's broken the pulley away from the shaft and is free wheeling.
Now i am now expert or anything however the BS meter was starting to kick a little.... It didn't seem to ring true with how it behaved prior to it had stopped working.
I've checked the pollen filter and tried runnnig it with the filter out, no difference. I haven't been able to figure out which fuse is for the A/C compressor.
so the question is, which fuse is the for the A/C compressor?
Does anyone have any other ideas of things I can check before I shell out for a new A/C compressor and drier etc?
Is there an internal temp sensor and if so where is and can it be tested?
Also I have spoken to a Perth landrover guys and he tells me that there is no A/C compressors available in Australia, so if anyone knows where there may be one on a shelf i'd appreciate it if you could let me know.
Thanks

[connock]

Hi NomadicD3

Give triumph rover spares a call in Lonsdale S/A 08 83846933. I would be surprized if they didnt have one;)
Good luck

[Blknight.aus]

if the fault was as he described then the pully should have come off the front...

you may find that its just low on gas or has an electrical fault....

try manually jumping power onto the compressor (after disconnecting the leads and plugging a test light into the vehicle side of the plug) and firing up the AC.

If that makes it blow cold then its an elecrical problem between the controls and the compressor and ID start with the high/low pressure switch.

[NomadicD3]

Hi NomadicD3

Give triumph rover spares a call in Lonsdale S/A 08 83846933. I would be surprized if they didnt have one;)
Good luck

Hi, thanks for the assist however i know plenty of suppliers throughout the world it's just that at the moment i'm offshore and have limited phone coverage so i thought i may use the aulro family to source one. I won't be back to the car for a few more days so any more ideas will be appreciated.

[roamer]

Try "The Large One" (Nick ) on the disco3 UK site

[NomadicD3]

Hi All, Just thought I'd post what I thought was some rather interesting informatiom about the landrover {and many other vehicle types} air conditioning condensor units. It seems that the latest AC condensors are susceptible to blockages. This is rather important as the nature of the D3 AC compressor runs constantly and this can create as excess build up of back pressure which in turn effectively stops the compressor from running and strips the clutch on the front of the compressor. There are 2 important things to note.
1- Once this happens it's a replacement compressor for about $700.00
2- There is no way {apparently} of checking the function of the condensor or clearing it!! as you would do with a radiator or intercooler...
A new condensor is about $300 in Perth, probably cheaper in the east :).
Another interesting point is that the new style of parallel inline condensors are affected much more by any restriction of air flow ie.. spot lights, larger intercoolers etc..
Sadly this is the issue I am now dealing with so will be looking at about 2k for a new compressor and condensor inc fitting etc :(

[NomadicD3]

Hi All ,
Another quick update on AC problems. It seems compressor failure in the D3 etc is such a rare event that no-one knows how to fix/replace them. So here's my advice, should you find that the compressor dies, usually by way of a stripped clutch at the front of the unit, buy 5-10 ltrs of cheap yet highly flamable fuel, park your car in a nice quiet area, open all doors and windows, apply entire fuel contents to the vehicle inside and out, and ignite!!!!!!! Don't forget to call the police first and tell them that you car was stolen. Then sit back, collect the insurance cheque, buy another discovery, maybe a 4 this time...
Regardless of the scrutiny the police and insurance assessors put you through it will be easier than trying to find someone who knows how to pull the compressor out and replace it {at least n Perth anyway}...:wasntme:
Hoping you all are having more fun than i am:twisted:l
cyas

[NomadicD3]

Hi All, Last post about this issue. It seems that the head pressure , set from factory, in the air conditioning system for the tdv6 is 400psi. The local AC expert says that this is unquestionably to high. The issue here is in the event that the air flow is restricted in any way ie spot lights, winch controller units or larger intercoolers,the condensor fails to cool properly this in turn creates an environment of higher than normal pressure combined with the gas and the aluminium in the condensor results in the creation of what the AC expert call black death. This is a black wet almost sooty like substance that then blocks the very small holes in the condensor. {BTW they are dam small, about the size of a sewing needle, as the AC guy showed me a cut away section of one that they had removed from a different vehicle}. So as you can see there is now a vicious circle, the more blocked it becomes the more black death created until eventually the back pressure is too great for the compressor clutch and it strips.
Apparently whilst it's not very common with the landrovers, Honda CRV's and a few mercedes who run the exact same system have had many failures requiring complete replacement of the AC system.
So in conclusion, If you plan on {as I have done} installing large spotties, large intercoolers or anything else that may inhibit airflow ie insect mesh etc, be aware that it may seem fine for quite sometime but eventually you may end up destroying the compressor and having to replace and clean the entire AC system at a cost of about $3000.00.
P.S. I'm am not an air conditioning expert but the guys that have just repaired my car have alot of experience and were confident this was the case.They also showed me my condensor with the black crap in it......

[Blknight.aus]

yep, this is part of the more for less with lower tolerances syndrome of down to a cost not up to a standard engineering.

older condensors were large and with big holes in them so they werent uber effecient but they operated well on relatively low pressures. IF you make it smaller with smaller galleries you can run higher pressures which allows you to take advantage of a bigger chunk of the enthalpy table for the refrigerent. this means the AC works better with smaller componentry BUT its more susceptible to failures so something that will make an older system just a bit more inefficient might totally kill a new unit.

[Davehoos]

there is only one reason for these modern a/c systems.

european GREEN lobby.
they obviously dont need a/c to actually work.

as im trained to fix these im not allowed to tell you how they work.
they do work so i shouldnt say that they are junk.just that the old pre-green units lasted longer so for me they are greener.

400PSI is too high and the pressure is not factory set.
150-350 is normall--ive struck cars that would run up to slip the belt pressures and stall the engine-this is because the fools that be think that its better to run an engine hotter to reduce emisions.
the higher the pressure the more heat is given off.

spent the last 10 yrs fixing these type of systems.
basically they are running at the margin and most of the systems the condensor is just too small.

the books tell you to fit contamination/debris filters in the discharge and suction hoses-but ive only found these fitted to old caddies and the odd freezer truck.

IS the system a denso sub cool system.the dryer bag and liquid receiver is in the last 1/3 of the condensor.these use a teaspoon of gas to work correctly and often overgasses.
if the system doesnt work you throw the condensor and expansion valve.then you have to get all the contamination out so you replace the hoses and evaporator.the system has originally a small amount of oil,when replacing any parts the correct amount must be in the system as there is no extra room for liquid.aprentise with auto gas machine cant work on this car.laser temp guns must be used to check subcooler.


remember that in europe denso has joint partners with lots of eastern block counties.so some intersting compressors are made by denso/zexell ect and if you own a VW you know the partnumbers off by heart.

the clever gents worked out that they can fit fuses inside the compressor coil to stop the compressor getting hot and destroying the pulley bearing---but its the bearing that normally creats the heat.

[bbyer]

The title line above, I found in the LR instructions for both installing and removing the air conditioner compressor. This suggests that there is an Air Conditioner pulley clutch, hence power from somewhere must go to the clutch.

I have attached the high line AC electrical drawings and while I can see nothing regarding an Air Conditioner Pulley Clutch, I think that there must be one.

On AC systems that I am familiar with, the compressor pulley has an internal electric clutch and that is what the ECONO switch is sort of connected to. Pushing ECONO disengages the compressor from the engine belts so to speak, and hence engine loading decreases.

While the wiring diagrams does not suggest an Air Conditioner pulley clutch, I think it is there. In any case, something somewhere should shut the compressor down when the AC is not required.

As such, if your system just quit, even though I can only find one reference to a clutch, perhaps the electric power to the clutch has quit, or the clutch if it exists, has quit. I have had to replace same on my GM vehicles in the past and I cannot see this being much different. Maybe others know better.

Re the pdf below, I can find reference to the ECONO button in the Automatic Temperature Control display, (ATC), and Engine Control Module, (ECM), but not the AC compressor or a pulley clutch, but there are references to refrigerant solenoids.

Whenever I see the ECM tied into a circuit, that tends to involve the Can Bus and who knows what it does. My guess is that there is an AC pulley clutch and it is controlled by the ECM and hence does not show directly in the AC electrical wiring - nor can I find any fuse that seems to relate to the clutch either, but there must be something, fuseable link or whatever, somewhere.

[Davehoos]

the compressor described is a late model denso delphi,zexell,sanden compressor.
these run constantly and change the swashplate stoke.like the old industrial unloading systems.

to save a few dollars there is no electric coil or compressor clutch.

later cars have plastic pulley.a plate relaces the friction clutch,in the center is a die cast or plastic nut.this has a breakaway section to shear off in the case of compressor issues.inside it has a rubber drive to reduce noiseremanufactures have these but the dealer dont.had to make these plates for benz cars and most of these compressors are now made in china.

not uncommon for the plate to shear of just from vibrant driving.

the original version had a aneroid in the rear of the compressor to control the a/c at set temp.hot water is used to climate control the vehicle.

later versions has a duty cycle solinoid to control the temp and economy mode.turned off these run at 10% to circulat oil.most of these can be direct conected to power to get 100% and then pressure switched.

[bbyer]

The compressor described is a late model denso, delphi, zexell or sanden compressor.
These run constantly and change the swash plate stoke, like the old industrial unloading systems.

To save a few dollars, there is no electric coil or compressor clutch.

Later cars have a plastic pulley. A plate replaces the friction clutch; in the centre is a die cast or plastic nut. This has a breakaway section to shear off in the case of compressor issues. Inside, it has a rubber drive to reduce noise. Remanufactures have these but the dealer don't. Had to make these plates for Benz cars and most of these compressors are now made in China.

Not uncommon for the plate to shear off just from vibrant driving.

The original version had a aneroid in the rear of the compressor to control the a/c at set temp. Hot water is used to climate control the vehicle.

Later versions has a duty cycle solenoid to control the temp and economy mode. Turned off, these run at 10% to circulate oil. Most of these can be direct connected to power to get 100% and then pressure switched. That explains why there is no clicking sound from the compressor clutch as there now is none.

I see on the electrical pdf, a refrigerant solenoid valve, D332, so as you referenced, that must be what turns the compressor on and off, (so to speak). I see that there appears to be three variations of the solenoid valve depending upon the engine, diesel, V6, or V8.

Thanks for your comments re the 10% rate. The old style used to cycle when the defroster was turned on just to make certain oil circulated in the winter months. I wondered just what my AC compressor was doing in the winter as I never would hear any sounds. That explains it.

[Davehoos]

In australia we use the defost with fresh air to defog.the compressor wont engage untill the vent temp reaches the 0-5 deg mark.so in efect you need the heater going to get the ac to work.

the jeep wrangler owners manual shows a wire being moved for winterisation,after study of the picture i worked out it was unplugging the comp over heat switch and disconected the comp.I was fitting an aftermarket unit that had no off switch.

a problem with cold climates is the a/c suction side becomes liquid and the compressor oil goes solid.often you only want the compressor to work unless the engine bay is hot.as the systems get smaller the chance of flooding increases.most of the old accumilator systems the gas volume was simply stored in a chamber as a saftey space.

to ovecome a hydrolic locked comressor often the old compressors engage on crank over,and lots of australian cars had a relay conected to the reverse.

the toyota hilux turns the compressor on twice after startup.my falcon has a pressure transducer same as in the us fords.if the pressure dont change to the preset amount the compressor code is set and cant be turned on.

[bbyer]

In Australia we use the defrost with fresh air to defog. The compressor won't engage until the vent temp reaches the 0-5 deg mark. So in effect you need the heater going to get the ac to work.

The Jeep Wrangler owners manual shows a wire being moved for winterization; after study of the picture I worked out it was unplugging the comp over heat switch and disconnected the comp. I was fitting an aftermarket unit that had no off switch.

A problem with cold climates is the a/c suction side becomes liquid and the compressor oil goes solid. Often you only want the compressor to work unless the engine bay is hot. As the systems get smaller the chance of flooding increases. Most of the old accumulator systems the gas volume was simply stored in a chamber as a safety space.

To overcome a hydraulic locked compressor, often the old compressors engage on crank over, and lots of Australian cars had a relay connected to the reverse.

The Toyota Hilux turns the compressor on twice after startup. My Falcon has a pressure transducer same as in the US Fords. If the pressure don't change to the preset amount, the compressor code is set and can't be turned on. After reading the above, keeping a Land Rover air suspension system operational would be easy for you.

Relative to air conditioning, our Land Rover air suspension compressor is simple. At least the compressor only has to deal with a gas, not both a gas and a liquid; leaks do not matter all that much, and air temperature does not really affect its operation significantly either.

I did not realize that there were all these complications to automobile AC. I thought it was just putting a fridge on wheels - wrong again.

[Davehoos]

I thought it was just putting a fridge on wheels - wrong again.

if only.
its claimed that certian systems are fitted for cost reasons.
I can understand why as spare parts the nasy bits are sold and not upgraded.but its a case of designing systems for each user.

what gets me is that a cheep hyundia mitubishi will mostly have a good a/c that never needs work and a expensive audi-bmw will need regular repairs.

ive driven route 66 and spent christmas in indiana.ive seen the freezing up of air compressors.not an issue here.