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DiscoClax
12th May 2011, 05:11 PM
Hi all,

Just want to run this past the knowledgeable...

The background: The mech advance in my dizzy died a while ago. I didn't have a replacement so I locked the mech adv and set it to 12deg static. Got another dizzy off eBlag recently and when it arrived it looked new, with no evidence of wear marks on the drive gear, etc. Bewdy. Came with the ignition module on the side already, but no vac adv. :D Looked like it may have been fitted to something, briefly (marks from the clamp-down evident) but otherwise as new. Whilst swapping over the vac advance I fumbled the dizzy, dropping it dead-smack on the new rotor :( and breaking it, naturally :( The shaft still felt OK and all else appeared well with the unit with only the rotor appearing to have copped it. I dug out a new, spare, genuine rotor button, and dropped the dizzy into the old girl, timed it up (12 deg) and all was well. Recently I had replaced the leads (Top-Gun spiral-wound), plugs (NGK BPR6EYs - regapped to 0.8), and had fitted a new genuine cap. After setting it all up the cranking time was higher than before, but I'd fiddled with the idle speed at the same time and just put that down to that.

The problem: Next day drove it. Long crank but then clean idle (both petrol and LPG) and good running. Always start it on petrol and then switch over to gas after a minute or so. Switched it back to petrol for the last few hundred meters (as I always do before parking it) and it seemed to be hunting a bit on over-run but was OK at idle and fine under load.

It has continued to do this ever since (a couple of weeks). Long crank, but then runs OK, however hunts and flares on over-run at low revs (like rolling up to a set of lights, etc - but only on petrol, totally steady on gas).

It was quite tricky to start the morning before last (cold morning), but then ran OK as per normal. Yesterday, in pouring rain, in peak-hour, with a trailer on the back, it just died. Was idling (on gas) and just stopped like you'd turned the key off. Would not restart, on either fuel. Popped the bonnet, checked the vitals, all OK (coil connections, etc) Still nothing. Touched the plastic cover of the ign amp module (mounted to the side of the dizzy) and it was scorchingly hot. Hmmmm. Left it for a few minutes, cleared the fuel system by cranking without fuel on, and then switched it to gas. Fired straight up and didn't miss a beat from then on. Did another couple of hundred kms of city/hwy mix last night without issue.

When getting home, switched it back to petrol, and it would barely run. Three-legged dog style. Had to two-foot it to keep it going.

I'm thinking it's the ignition module/amplifier. But previous experience with electronic ign modules (other vehicles) is that they either work or they don't, no in-between. And I'd guess that the reason it's carrying on when on petrol is that the injectors are firing erratically due to a flakey signal from the coil?

Anyone want to throw in their two-bob's? have I missed something?

It's '94 (serpentine) D1 V8 auto, stock ignition, dual fuel. All bar the dizzy and module were in the car previously and ran fine. The coil windings check out as expected (ie. about 1 Ohm / 7.5 kOhm) and are the same as my spare coil. Nice solid 12V to the coil +ve, too. Throws a continuous, blue spark across a 1/2" air gap from the end of the HT lead when cranking (checked a few days ago). Go figure?

And, before it's suggested, I intend to do the 'BeeUtey upgrade' as soon as possible. Especially as I've located a later-type dizzy with the remote-mounted module in the garage :D Looking for suitable parts now.

BigJon
12th May 2011, 05:34 PM
Do the thing in your last paragraph... :D

101RRS
12th May 2011, 05:51 PM
Due to the hot environment in the engine valley, the ignition module can develop dry joints that cause the ignition module to not work - mine would not start on cold -3 mornings in Canberra would run OK in spring and would not work on hot summer afternoons.

Whatever you do - get the ignition module moved off the dissy to near the coil - like later D1s had as original - it is not where near as hot there.

Garry

fev
12th May 2011, 05:55 PM
Hey, sounds like it is identical to mine, module gave out Tuesday night.

Lovely weekend planned :)

bee utey
12th May 2011, 06:12 PM
Both the early and late dissy's convert well to Bosch amp operation. If the late dissy comes with the harness to the remote amp then use that by all means. Otherwise whatever is nearest to hand.

I have met more than my share of partially failed Lucas amps. About 50% of them do something like you have described. Interesting how hot yours got, maybe an indication of the problem. I don't think I would dare put my finger down there on a hot engine...

BTW I strongly recommend not doing the cold run thing on petrol. It serves no purpose other than to foul up the plugs and dirty the oil. With cold running plugs selected for gas you should not run petrol more than what is needed to swing it into life. Warming up on gas will run much cleaner. I suggest people warm up their engines on gas then switch to petrol for a 5 minute burst out on the road every so often.

DiscoClax
13th May 2011, 09:08 AM
Thanks Bee Utey (and apologies for earlier miss-spelling of your name). With regards to your comments on petrol cold start, I generally either switch over immediately the engine fires (ie. during high idle) or at the end of my driveway (add 30 seconds) specifically because of the appalling fuelling of these engines and the issus that causes (oil dilution, cylinder wall washing, plug fouling, general carboning up, etc, etc). The engine fires up faster and happier on petrol, so that means good oil pressure quickly, but then it's over to nice clean, dry gas :) Hard to beleive an EFI engine of the mid-90s can have fuelling worse than a decent set of carbs, but it definitely does. At least mine doesn't have that 'orrible cold start injector....

...And I'd suggest finding a nice big hill to drive up with extreme prejudice every now and then on petrol. Really give the injectors a good pull-through :) Mine's at over 300,000kms and still sweet as a nut.

PhilipA
13th May 2011, 01:33 PM
...And I'd suggest finding a nice big hill to drive up with extreme prejudice every now and then on petrol. Really give the injectors a good pull-through :) Mine's at over 300,000kms and still sweet as a nut.

Is it on the original injectors?

If it is I suggest that had it injectors is the cause of the overfuelling.
Buy a set of Mustang injectors and you may find a big difference.

I recall someone with gas was complaining about the same thing a few years ago and posted a picture of his injectors. Most were completely jammed with the pintle jammed open. I sold him a good tested set of Lucas injectors that I had removed for Bosch gen11s and it fixed his overfuelling problems.( but now there are really cheap reconditioned Bosch injectors on ebay)
Regards Philip A

DiscoClax
13th May 2011, 06:08 PM
Yes, still the original injectors AFAIK. However I've always run quality fuels (typically BP98 since it became available) and with the regular workout they get, it's always run well on petrol... until this issue suddenly appeared. I run a tankful of petrol through about every four or five tanks of gas, and the injectors always get run for a few minutes before hot shut-down to cool them and blow-off any deposits (and purge any stale fuel from the rail, etc). Plus the odd workout under load seems to have done the job, so far.

OT - I ran my old Nissan Pulsar (with the 1.8 FamilyII engine) for years on BP98 and, despite having done near-on 450,000kms, the injectors worked like new still when I checked them just before selling it. Flows were all within spec and patterns were good. Happy with that given the engine was getting a bit tired and had a bit of blow-back...

Having said that, I'll be doing the cam and giving the heads a once over in the next month or so and will definitely flow-check and clean the injectors at that time. Just waiting on some trick bits from the 'states...

P.S. I picked up a BIM024 today from Bursons for a shade under $70. That's a job for the weekend. Then it may be an upgrade to a MEC717 coil or similar to take advantage of the capability of the new module :D

DiscoClax
17th May 2011, 09:44 AM
All fixed :) Big thanks to Bee Utey for his sage counsel :twobeers:

BIM024 conversion has now been applied. Works a treat. The engine starts easily, runs more smoothly and seems a bit more eager generally and is definitely stronger under load than before. Highly recommended upgrade. Good one.

My learnings:- Twist the wires from the dizzy to the module and route away from noise sources (to desensitise the signal to interference - ie. improve the S/N ratio) and make sure the pick-up air gap is set nice and tight.

Now to fit a MEC717 :D