Changes to the Puma Engine & Lineup

[Naks]

Chaps,

Indications from our UK friends are that LR is going to produce the Puma with the 2.4 engine only until November before switching to model year 2012 which will be fitted with the 2.2 engine (same as the one in the FL2). It also seems like the 130 is being dropped from the lineup for the MY12.

If you login to Topix & choose: Defender > 2012, you will see that the engine comes up as '2.2L 16V TC I4 DSL 122PS PUMA' instead of '2.4L DOHC HPCR DSL 140PS PUMA' from the 2007-2011 models:


http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/1816/alandrover.jpg

[islu51]

according to the horses mouth, the UK dealers have not been told in any communication that the 2.2 is coming. The 90 page model line up update, defender section, only says that certain 130 models and SV versions will no longer be produced due to EU Mass & Dimension laws. The 130 crew cab and cab chassis will still be available in the UK. No tipper, or quadtech version will be available from SV.

The topix system covers all countries and the snap shot in the previous post shows the 90 soft available....but it is not currently not available to order and will not not be in 2012.

[Naks]

More details on the 2.2L being fitted to the 12MY Defender from an internal LR document: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/26265626/Defender%20engine.pdf

You will notice from the CO2 emissions figures that this has nothing to do with CO2 emissions reduction, more likely cost-cutting since the same engine will be going into the Transit vans.

[85 county]

More details on the 2.2L being fitted to the 12MY Defender from an internal LR document: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/26265626/Defender%20engine.pdf

You will notice from the CO2 emissions figures that this has nothing to do with CO2 emissions reduction, more likely cost-cutting since the same engine will be going into the Transit vans.

is in

[pc3]

Is the 2.2l supposed to be a better motor than the 2.4 in the PUMA now ? I dont know it was a "mental drama" buying such a large veichle with the diminutive 2.4L motor.....I think 2.2L is getting to small despite the fact it probably has better out puts..................to my way of thinking the 2.4L in its "detuned" state should have good longevity in the PUMA in comparison to a higher output 2.2L am I correct ?

[Barefoot Dave]

How interesting, Identical outputs everywhere, yet an additional 8mph top end, apparantly they have an exemption from the laws of physics:cool:
Dave.

[85 county]

How interesting, Identical outputs everywhere, yet an additional 8mph top end, apparantly they have an exemption from the laws of physics:cool:
Dave.

not quite.

Lower compression leads to the assumption that it will be running higher turbo pressures. Turbo would work better in the higher reve range.

[pc3]

Do people agree the 2.2l is getting far to small for such a big car......I think the 2.4L is pushing it, longevity will be interesting.................it really should have at LEAST the 2.7 TDV6 Ideally I'd like to see something like a 6cyl 3.5 to 3.8 in it (with stornger diffs/drive line) It then would be perfect in my opnion.

[danske]

Do people agree the 2.2l is getting far to small for such a big car......I think the 2.4L is pushing it, longevity will be interesting.................it really should have at LEAST the 2.7 TDV6 Ideally I'd like to see something like a 6cyl 3.5 to 3.8 in it (with stornger diffs/drive line) It then would be perfect in my opnion.


Totally agree < cant see why they didnt include the 2.7 TDV6 , more economical , powerful and they have sold a tonne of them with Disco 3 , so economies of scale must be there for them.

[pc3]

My thinking is that it will be cheaper to put a new motor in my PUMA 130 twin cab when the time comes than to buy a new 4x4 and add all the bloody expensive items we put on...aux tanks, winches, UHF, lights bash plates etc.

Given the KM's I do at the moment that would be 15yrs away. I have seen one PUMA with 165,000km on the clock............it will be interesting to see if the PUMA can make 300,000 km with the little 2.4L motor.

But I will say it does get along nice and you would not think its only a 2.4L engine.

[85 county]

My thinking is that it will be cheaper to put a new motor in my PUMA 130 twin cab when the time comes than to buy a new 4x4 and add all the bloody expensive items we put on...aux tanks, winches, UHF, lights bash plates etc.

Given the KM's I do at the moment that would be 15yrs away. I have seen one PUMA with 165,000km on the clock............it will be interesting to see if the PUMA can make 300,000 km with the little 2.4L motor.

But I will say it does get along nice and you would not think its only a 2.4L engine.

Spoken like a true County Owner :D:D:D

[Drover]

I read with interest the debate about the smaller PUMA engines, both the 2.4ltr and now the 2.2ltr. How they are too small - If they can last, but never a question or doubt about the 200Tdi's or TD5's.

Not an expert or would ever claim to be..... BUT.....

The difference from PUMA 2.4 to a TD5 (2.5) is only 25cc's/per cylinder or the same as a cheap Chinese whipper snipper .....?

The 2.4 to a 2.2 is only 50cc's a good whipper snipper....?

Seriously.....what difference can it make ?

Especially given the advances in diesel technologies since 2004 ?.

[pc3]

I read with interest the debate about the smaller PUMA engines, both the 2.4ltr and now the 2.2ltr. How they are too small - If they can last, but never a question or doubt about the 200Tdi's or TD5's.

Not an expert or would ever claim to be..... BUT.....

The difference from PUMA 2.4 to a TD5 (2.5) is only 25cc's/per cylinder or the same as a cheap Chinese whipper snipper .....?

The 2.4 to a 2.2 is only 50cc's a good whipper snipper....?

Seriously.....what difference can it make ?

Especially given the advances in diesel technologies since 2004 ?.

However do you feel the defender SHOULD have an engine of 3.5l to 4l capacity and then it would be perfect ?

I do....assuming it was also given a little stronger drive line in the appropriate areas. I would have paid an extra 5k-7k to have a bigger engined option....I think :(

[Drover]

Hey pc3,

I agree with your comments, bigger is better and the PUMA could have been the best factory Defender of all time if they got the engine and drive line right.

I think a 3ltr V6 TDCI would have been spot on, but it is not to be and that’s why I have a parcel from BAS and Allisport on the way from the UK.:D

……But 100cc's is barley worth mentioning.


Cheers

[Naks]

This post from a fellow SA Defender owner sums it up nicely:


Oh how cute! I cannot wait for them to change to a eco-friendly 500cc engine with 5 turbo's, 3 superchargers, and a electric drive! That is so FABulous!

OK serious now: why don't LR call the new engine the "Two and a Quarter" and then going with the Tata Telcoline 2 litre engine, and finally back to the roots in bringing back the original 1600cc. Besides, with green laning being restricted more and more every year in England, what is the use of having a LR over there at all? Everything is designed around Euro 5 or 6 or 7 nowadays, how about Africa 0?

In darkest Africa and the Outback of Oz people still prefer a proper lump of old technology. Bring us a 3 litre diesel turbo, something with exhaust fumes that will keep the mosquitos away, something that can digest a litre of water in the fuel tank without requiring R30k to replace injectors and pumps, something that can cross a 1,5 meter deep river without dying, something that you can tune with a 13mm spanner and a screwdriver (no laptop required). I am just more convinced to keep to my old Landy, and rather fix her and keep her in good shape, than to spend hundreds of thousands on new things that will just irritate the crap out of me.

[pc3]

Hey pc3,

I agree with your comments, bigger is better and the PUMA could have been the best factory Defender of all time if they got the engine and drive line right.

I think a 3ltr V6 TDCI would have been spot on, but it is not to be and that’s why I have a parcel from BAS and Allisport on the way from the UK.:D

……But 100cc's is barley worth mentioning.


Cheers

Drover do you have a new motor on the way from BAS Allisport ?

Hey the new Ford ranger dual cab will have a 3.2L 5 cyl motor......might be an awesome drop in for the defender ??

[85 county]

This post from a fellow SA Defender owner sums it up nicely:

who ever wrote that post has never worked on defenders for sure

all you need is a 12MM and a 17mm spanner:D:D:D:D:D

[isuzutoo-eh]

who ever wrote that post has never worked on defenders for sure

all you need is a 12MM and a 17mm spanner:D:D:D:D:D


And a Big Friendly Hammer

[MR LSD]

This post from a fellow SA Defender owner sums it up nicely:td5 or a rover v8 fords should stay in fords:wasntme:

[muddys1]

i reckon a 3.0 ltr of some discription would be great, but, if someone decided to transplant a ( for example ) a 3.0 ford ranger engine what would happen to the anti stall and traction control systems ??? as the ecu controls all this, or am i wrong...lol...or can all ecu's plug and play ?????
cheers
muddy

[pc3]

i reckon a 3.0 ltr of some discription would be great, but, if someone decided to transplant a ( for example ) a 3.0 ford ranger engine what would happen to the anti stall and traction control systems ??? as the ecu controls all this, or am i wrong...lol...or can all ecu's plug and play ?????
cheers
muddy

The NEW ranger engine is a 3.2l 5cyl which should be a good motor and would be well suited to the PUMA !!

[Benny_IIA]

i reckon a 3.0 ltr of some discription would be great, but, if someone decided to transplant a ( for example ) a 3.0 ford ranger engine what would happen to the anti stall and traction control systems ??? as the ecu controls all this, or am i wrong...lol...or can all ecu's plug and play ?????
cheers
muddy

the new ranger due soon will run the same 2.2L or a 3.2L with 147kw and 470nm.

LR could offer the upgrade on the 'new' defender?

[slovenia]

I have a Mercedes Sprinter 2.2 lit. 7 feet long with 620.00 miles, and still work very well. So I'm sure that even a small engine may be good. If the rover had such an engine I am willing to pay him several thousand euros more.:D