OBD1 vs OBD2

[GEK064]

Hey all,

I have a 1999 D2 (tenth VIN letter is X) and as far as I've worked out I have a OBD1 (five pin plug bottom of the internal fuse board) :(....My question to you –

1.What is the difference in capability, between 1 and 2?
2.Can I get a OBD2 scanner that can read a OBD1 (was looking at the scan gauge II) or should I forget that and go for something different?

.........what do I want to gauge/measure/observe? Anything and everything that I can cause even if I don't understand it now I will learn as my aim is to better understand the animal which has caused a minor hemorrhage in the household budget.

Any and all help/advice is appreciated.

[AussieAub]

Some good info and explanations here:
OBD 2 And OBD 1 Explained | Diy Auto Repair | Auto-Facts.org (http://www.auto-facts.org/OBD-2.html)

Cheers,

[GEK064]

So in summary the differences are:

1. OBD1 has a slower baud rate
2. OBD1 is more vehicle/ brand specific
3. OBD1 has higher failure tolerances

Any opinion if a scan gauge will work and is there an adapter available?

[101RRS]

Why not take a drive over to Wooders Garage (the distibutors) in Hornsby and plug one in. I wanted one for my Freelander which does have an OBDII port but is not OBDII compliant - it didn't work.

It works in my RRS but it does only have basic code reading and clearing functionallity. The engine monitoring functions are great but the trip meter functions are not very accurate.

Garry

[mturri]

Regardless of the diagnostics standard the Disco 2 has been built up to (though I'd believe is EOBD/J1962) you need to realise that there is a world of difference between a generic scanner / code reader and a specific Land Rover diagnostics tool (of which there are currently several end user affordable models).

The D2 has several control modules depending on its configuration:
EMS (Engine Management System): Motronic for the V8 and MEMS for the Td5
EAT (Electronic Automatic Transmission)
SLABS (Self Levelling Suspension + ABS)
ABS (for vehicles without ABS)
BCU (Body Control Unit)
SRS (Air bags and pretensioners)
ACE (Active Cornering Enhancement)

A generic scanner will only allow you to connect to the EMS and possibly some areas of the ABS control module and read codes and live data (advanced models only) within the EOBD standard ONLY (which are not all of the codes/data streams that Land Rover uses).

Land Rover specific diagnostic tools such as Faultmate or Hawkeye connect to each one of the control modules within the vehicle, enabling the user not only to see but also to change things, i.e. programming FOBs, calibrating ride height, setting injector codes, etc.

Have a read:
http://forum.landrovernet.com/showthread.php/196714-TD5-OBD2-compliant-or-what-ISO-standard-does-it-follow-diagnostics (http://forum.landrovernet.com/showthread.php/196714-TD5-OBD2-compliant-or-what-ISO-standard-does-it-follow-diagnostics)
http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f8/discovery-ii-diagnostic-port-reading-45757.html (http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f8/discovery-ii-diagnostic-port-reading-45757.html)
http://www.lro.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=63706 (http://www.lro.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=63706)

[GEK064]

Next time I drive past Hornsby I'll visit Wooders Garage, but in the mean time I want some real time monitoring tools.

Mturri you are right (at least IMO) - I understand that the scan Gauge is generic but it will sit on the dash, where as the Hawkeye and fault mate are bulky. From what I’ve seen there are two kinds of tools out there, The ones that sit on the dash (scangauge/madman) – these just read from the OBD. Then there are those that interact with the LR systems (Hawkeye/faultmate). Further from what I’ve read the Hawkeye/Faultmate are great for the TD5 but over kill for the V8 and the Scangauge/madman will not add value to the TD5 owner but is all that is available to the V8 owner. Basically they are different. Both good but different.

Thanks for those links and I’ll read them to try and I identify the best tool for my 1999 D2 V8 4.6 LPG dual fuel. I have a budget of $500 for a tool that will let me monitor my engine with data that will warn me of a potential failure to that engine and its ancillary systems.

I’d be interested in hearing from any D2 V8 owner. TD5 guys are just too different, nice but different ;-)

OH and I have a OBD1

[AussieAub]

I’d be interested in hearing from any D2 V8 owner.

I run a Bluetooth generic OBD-II reader on mine, with a netbook I also use for GPS stuff.
More info on the unit here: http://www.aulro.com/afvb/electronic-diagnostics/82863-bluetooth-obd-ii.html

There's a few pages of posts there, so do please read through them. I made a number of posts on that thread complete with screen shots showing what it does and doesn't monitor, so I don't really fancy repeating here again and duplicating posts. :cool:

For the basic (but important!) info "on the go", I think its great. Running engine temp is the one I watch most, but there's tonnes of other data. It can be used for clearing generic error codes logged by the O2 sensors and other "useful" ones, but will not see the "3 amigos" codes, unfortunately. Full scan in approx 2.5 secs.
If I get any issues that I think are of concern, I simply take a screen shot there and then and give to my mech for his comments/thoughts. Has helped a number iof times in quickly diagnosing problems.

Any Q's, please let me know and I'll answer if poss - but be warned, my technical knowledge is limited to say the least! :angel:


I have a 1999 D2 (tenth VIN letter is X) and as far as I've worked out I have a OBD1 (five pin plug bottom of the internal fuse board)
Thought ALL D2 V8's were OBD-II....? Sure you're looking at the right plug there??

Cheers,

[clubagreenie]

I've never seen a D2 without OBD2. It's in the D/Side footwell, left side in the black plastic panel.

OBD1 plugs are mfct specific, and usually require bridging several different connections in different configs depending on what you want to see and then you need to pass advanced applied counting techniques to read the codes from the light flashing on the dash. For instance, toyos can flas every .5 sec, 1 sec, 1.2, 1.5 or 2 sec in some models and then there are pauses of different times as well.

Thanks god for OBD2. Can you imagine a LR implementation of that?

[GEK064]

A ray of hope maybe? I'd read that OBD2 compliant was only with cars with a VIN tenth code of Y onwards? I'll recheck again (with glases on this time) but in the right side in the fuse panel I found a 5 pin socket, which is was i assumed to be OBD1. I'll be back next week and will check. thanks for the feedback

[101RRS]

Thought ALL D2 V8's were OBD-II....? Sure you're looking at the right plug there??

Cheers,

That was my understanding as well - all cars sold in the US from about 1998/9 had to be OBDII compliant - hence the V8s are compliant but diesels are not. Later all vehicles came compliant.

I thought the OBDII plug was on the passenger side under the glovebox in late 90s vintage cars - later it was moved to near the steering column above the accelerator pedal.

Garry

[AussieAub]

I'll recheck again (with glases on this time) but in the right side in the fuse panel I found a 5 pin socket, which is was i assumed to be OBD1

Open the drop down panel under the steering wheel/column.
The OBD-II plug socket is on the left hand side bottom corner, and points slightly towards the centre console.

[GEK064]

Obviously I'm missing something....does it have a cover? Where would the OBDII be?

[GEK064]

Tried to upload a pic from the iPad...did not work....well send tomorrow.

[AussieAub]

Obviously I'm missing something....does it have a cover? Where would the OBDII be?

Just been outside and taken a pic for you.
No, no cover. Just kind of there.
You don't need to open the fusebox cover/panel under the steering wheel, it's lower than that, sorry....:angel:
Its the dirty grey plug thing in that black strip of trim!

Still on the drivers side, next to the centre console, just above where your left knee would be if driving, unless of course your ambidextrous!! :p:p

Hope that helps....

Cheers,

[GEK064]

:twobeers: They are the beers I'll buy you when we meet on the road somewhere!

I've pulling my hair out looking inside behind the cover - never occured to look below it! Mystery solved and Scangauge II to be ordered! thanks again.

[AussieAub]

:twobeers: They are the beers I'll buy you when we meet on the road somewhere!......thanks again.

No worries, glad I could help! :cool:
And I'll hold you to you those beers.....!!!:p:D
(in fact I'll need them just so I can re-pay everyone else who's helped me!!)

LOL!!

[Pinelli]

:twobeers: They are the beers I'll buy you when we meet on the road somewhere!

I've pulling my hair out looking inside behind the cover - never occured to look below it! Mystery solved and Scangauge II to be ordered! thanks again.

Hey Geko, can you tell us whether the Scangauge II works? I've seen conflicting posts on here as to whether it works with the Disco 2 or not.

[OffTrack]

The td5 and v8 have different levels of OBDII support. There was no requirement for diesels to provide OBDII support until 2004, whereas the v8 supported OBDII from launch.

On the td5 you can access a tiny subset of OBDII pids - rpm, road speed, water temp, calculated load and voltage.

If you check back you'll find the conflicting reports will split fairly neatly into v8 and td5.

The above applies to all generic OBDII tools.

Cheers
Paul

[clubagreenie]

Definately works on V8. Give the guys that distribute them a call (they're in the Blue Mountains, just before Lithgow) their details are on their Ebay listings. They are really helpful and helped me configure one in a non listed (and apparently unsupported) vehicle over the phone.

[OffTrack]

Definately works on V8. Give the guys that distribute them a call (they're in the Blue Mountains, just before Lithgow) their details are on their Ebay listings. They are really helpful and helped me configure one in a non listed (and apparently unsupported) vehicle over the phone.

I believe Pinelli owns a TD5. As I said the reports of OBDII tools on D2's are split into V8=Work and TD5=No Work. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. It's not a matter of adjusting configs, TD5's only present an extremely limited range of OBDII data.

[Pinelli]

No, very clear answer. Thanks for that. And yes, I do have a TD5.

Cheers

[GEK064]

On the V8 it works a treat! I love the ability to measure so much and yes it had an impact on my driving.....they claim it can save 30% on the fuel bills...not sure about that, but I will give them credit for 10% more K's out of every tank.......all I need now is another tool to clear the injector codes it keeps bringing up:-(

[clubagreenie]

The scangauge won't cleat them? What codes are they, haven't had any so far that it would see but not clear.

[GEK064]

I get P0201 thru to P0208 plus P 154, P 134, P 1590. I know that the first 8 have to do with the injectors (I run gas) but the others?

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Any pics of it in action?
how much dash does it take up?

[clubagreenie]

P0134 02 Sensor Circuit No Activity Detected (Bank I Sensor 1) (http://www.obd-codes.com/p0134)

P0154 02 Sensor Circuit No Activity Detected (Bank 2 Sensor 1) (http://www.obd-codes.com/p0154)

P1590 in subaru in neutral position switch, in opel/vauxhaul is EGR valve related. No LR specific listings. It has a listing generically for heater temp control switch as well plus a generic ABS sensor fault.

[GEK064]

Clubagreenie - would that P0132,154 occur because of the gas?

P1590 - Three amingos?

[GEK064]

Pedro,

I like the position as I can easily see it and toggle between the numerous functions. I'm looking at installing a 2 Din GPS etc unit and will probably attemp to intergrate both....I have a idea but not all the know how yet.

[clubagreenie]

Don't want to rain on your party but I had similar readings when I had a blown head gasket, but was lean readings on one bank (the one that was blown).

I can't see it getting no readings while on gas as it should have some O2 coming through unless the gas system disconnects the sensors from the ECU in which case you just need to live with it and check them probably annually on petrol for a while to make sure they're still functioning. Actually try running on petrol, clear the faults and see if they reappear.

[OffTrack]

I'd purchased a one hour subscription to the LR techinfo site (http://topix.landrover.jlrext.com) yesterday and noticed that they have a section devoted to diagnostic troubleshooting workflows for various P-codes. It can be found under Diagnostics > General > Diagnostic Flows.

I was looking at TD5 related material so didn't pay too much attention as what was there seemed to be V8 specific.

If you buy one hour access to the diagnostics section for a single model and year it's £3.00 or to all years of a single model £7.00.

To give you a taster of what is available I've attached some of the flows relevant to the codes reported. I'd point out that there are flows for pretty much every V8 p-code, so there should be no excuse for guess work. It just requires spending the equivalent of a :beer:

cheers
Paul

[clubagreenie]

So the 134/135 are correct these are the O2 sensors upstream of the cat/s. Only US spec discos have the downstream sensors so no need to worry there.

Given where they are plugged to the harness it might be worth checking (he says knowing he won't have to suffer it) but a missing signal on BOTH sides is strange, unless as I said the gas system does something with them and it may not be reconnecting them when it returns to petrol operation (though the fault will probably still be there but you may be able to program the scan gauge to take either an external signal from the ECU on gas/petrol changeover or have a single button reset for when changing over.

If it has no O2 sensing then you won't have true adjustment of fuel levels vs air in based on resultant gas out.

[GEK064]

Based on what 'offtrack' PDF files says they might also be cold. Apparently they work better when warn and I was 9'c when I sit he'd on the scan gauge to take picture for Pedro.....if still there I'll try the petrol idea...thanks.

Talking about the cold ... my trucks Electronics hates the cold...below 5'c I don't have the speedo etc working...I think even the ABS is out..until the engine bay warms up which may take 3-5minutes driving....does yours do the same?

[clubagreenie]

Truck? What truck?

Had no cold issues, had it down below zero. Just hate having to cold start it. Wishing for drysump system and pre heater/oiler.

Left wing suggestion but I have seen it in a normal system. The ABS might be related to the age of the fluid and water content. It might be gelling or freezing inside the ABS module. Time for a change?

[GEK064]

The kids call my 99D2 ' the truck ' - they are small in comparison.

[clubagreenie]

People have been calling (attempting to anyway) our Rovers trucks for years. Much to my dismay.

I tell them trucks travel thousand of miles reliably and economically. Land Rovers don't.