Hoping to buy my first D3

[Deal Madrid]

Hi

I am keen to purchase my first Landy and am looking at a 2005 D3 HSE TDV6 with 169k on the clock. It looks to have been well maintained by Alto but would anyone have any tips with respect to buying this vehicle? The Kms don't worry me too much as surely most engines are able to go far beyond this. I am checking that the timing belt got changed at its last service, but other than that anything else I should look out for.

Hope to be seeing you all soon somewhere muddy/sandy/wet/dry.

[Neil P]

What are you prepared to spend on repairs ,before pain sets in ? Are you up for ten grand in a bad year or two ?
If not , walk on . There's nothing cheap to fix/maintain on D3.
Five tyres , 2 services , 2 diffs and compressor pump , all since August ; 8 grand . Get my drift ?

[Graeme]

Can you get the full service / warranty history to see if the diffs have been changed? There were lots of early (and not so early) diffs replaced because of an internal housing coating affecting the bearings (IIRC), so replaced diffs would be a plus although no guarantee. On a similar but not so expensive note, have the EGR valves been replaced recently? What's the status of the high pressure fuel pump - is a recall outstanding? Has the gearbox oil been changed?

[DJC]

Having been in your position a year ago, try and find out if the gearbox has been flushed. If no evidence, insist on it as a condition of sale and be very wary if there is any hint of a shudder as it goes through the gears. Also check things like there are two keys - they are pricey to replace.

I love driving it, but hate that nagging feeling that something is going to go wrong. General maintenance is also pricey

Cheers
Daaren

[Deal Madrid]

Thanks for the info. I am steeling myself for a few bills but hopefully I'll find a good one.

[Deal Madrid]

I'll check these things out, thanks very much

[Deal Madrid]

Thanks Graeme.

[Deal Madrid]

Thanks Neil. But you still love the car?

[Ausfree]

G'Day and Welcome!!:):)

[DiscoWeb]

Deal Madrid,

I think any vehicle you purchase that is 5 -6 years old and has done a reasonable no. of km needs to be checked over, service history reviewed etc and with the wealth of knowledge on this forum you will get a good idea of the issues you should be aware of.

Point is that unlike some other vehicle if and when things fail they tend to be expensive to fix, no different from buying any 2nd hand luxury vehicle.

That said they are an awesome vehicle and the majority love the way they bridge the gap between luxury 7 seat wagon and extremely capable off roader.

Perhaps if you can describe the vehicle in more detail you may find the old owner on the site and they can give you some real insight into its history, if it has had any issues etc you should be aware of etc.

Good luck with the purchasing decision.

George

[bbyer]

Thanks Neil. But you still love the car? I would say that you have to as there is not a lot of logic to justify the cost of maintaining one properly.

I think with lesser vehicles one can kind of accept letting them run down and maybe even get away with it for quite awhile. If seems with cheap vehicles, one expects them to be cheap and if they are not, well no one will listen to your crying about repairs, hence no one cries about them.

The 3 is to me like owning a Bentley or Rolls etc - they have to be maintained or they just plain stop. Sometimes they even stop in spite of that and when that happens, it is a big deal. Consider the news reports if one of the RR security vehicles following the newly married Royals or the Queen had to be pushed to the side. Now consider the fuss, or the lack of it, if the broken down vehicle had been a Vauxhall - nothing would have been noted. The good news, well it was really no news, was that there were no sick Rovers that fine day.

I was grumbling to the owner of a shiny new F-250 who was admiring my 3 a few months ago that the LR dealer charges about $500 a corner for brakes. His response was what do you think the F-250 costs? It is also heavy, has disc's on all four corners, and his Ford dealer uses the same flat rate book as my LR dealer and his shop rates are the same as my LR dealer - well, about $500 a corner. As to the Bentley, well it is more, as they try to one up the Mercedes dealers.

Be happy, you will have the ride of choice for Kings and Queens - and it costs like it. That is just the way it is.

[Neil P]

Thanks Neil. But you still love the car?
I like the handling and the ZF , but the seats suck and the CANbus
is way over the top. Everything else is just a 4x4. I wouldn't buy
another one because I've had 20years of Jap stuff and I was never
concerned about reliability/Dealer choice as I am with this. Audi A6
next , says Mrs P .........

[Mully]

Hey you can buy mine if you like. :p

I'm going tonight to look at trade in value but must say it is very reluctant as the D3 is an absolute beast and nothing is going to honestly measure up feature or capability wise without going to the improved 2009 or D4 versions. IMO the 2005 D3 is a dud waiting to happen over 100 thousand kms.

If trade value doesn't cover the outstanding dosh (a business financed vehicle), then I'll keep it and get on with the repairs that come along... be warned though that there do seem to be regular 'new' faults appearing the longer in the tooth these trucks get... the diff one is the last straw for me personally... the 2005 D3 should be all painted yellow or have a recall :eek: for faults like that IMO.

Sadly the D3 has given me serious doubt about the Land Rover brand from 2005 onwards.. if they can't get basics like ball joint size right for example... then what exactly has happened to our beloved brand?

Hope this doesn't sound like a sook festival because I am merely venting some serious disappointment as I do love the D3...when it is not emptying your bank account... you can just get tired of the constant expensive faults that it simply should not be having.

Happy hunting and let me know if you want a test drive! :o

[CaverD3]

Ball joint was in 2005- too small- was replaced with a larger heavier duty one.
Early build of any vehicle can have issues most have been fixed in later models.
Check wth ALTO to see if the ball joints and bushes have been repalced.
Any vehicle of that age will start to need bits replaced. Allow for it in your cost to run. Having said that there are plenty of MY2005s with high milage and few problems.

[Drover]

Don't buy an '05 or '06 - They are dud's !

I had a late '05 (Dec) from new, it was nothing less than painful !

Sold it 2 1/2 years into the warrantee at 47,000k's. It spent more time at the dealers than with me.

You won’t dare own one out of warrantee.

I won't go on about specific problems but they are a "problematic" vehicle - Hey they have just been voted Europe’s most unreliable car.

I Think by '08 to '09 they were sorted, so if your dead set on a D3 get one of lthe ast one's.

Cheers
Grant.

[LSD_AUTOMOTIVE]

Welcome to the forum!

[gghaggis]

Don't buy an '05 or '06 - They are dud's !

I had a late '05 (Dec) from new, it was nothing less than painful !


I had an April '06 - 110,000 km - took far more abuse than it was ever designed for. Only ever let me down when I did something stupid (like mud in the diesel :eek: )

My '09 never missed a beat, other than a plug in the electric fan harness breaking.

Mind you, I always chased up any TSB's, upgrades or recalls, and always insisted on software updates. Those are things you _should_ be proactive about in any modern vehicle. And something all used-car buyers should check.

Cheers,

Gordon

[Deal Madrid]

Many thanks for everyone's comments. It has given me real food for thought. In the end I have decided to pass on this particular D3, as the owner/dealer seems unable to answer any of my questions. It seems I am finally growing up and have put aside my impetuousness, for the time being at least. So my intended foray into LR World will have to wiat for a little longer. Not too long I hope.

Mike

[Mully]

Hiya Mike.... just a quick update since I decided to offload my D3. There is actually a lot to like about them... still. After looking at a few options since originally posting and while some of the D3 faults are due to poor/dumb engineering, their rectification and maintenance may actually outweigh other vehicle options due to the intense benefits of a well running D3... whatever the year.

I'm a bit hot or cold on my own D3 at the moment but I'm 'possibly' finding more reasons why it is worth keeping one than getting rid of one. Having said that, if someone offered me $40k right now, I'd probably say yes and grab another set of wheels just to have closure... but it would be sorely missed.

Cheers and definitely take your time and do your research.

[TerryO]

So Mully I'm getting a bit confused here, are early D3's the real dud as you have said or not?

Sounds like your changing your mind again.

As for having doubt about the Land Rover brand from 2005 onwards, have you owned pre 2005 Landies because they are not perfect or better than a early D3 either at any stretch of the imagination.

If someone wants a extremely reliable commuter vehicle that has bugger all problems then buy a Toyota Corolla or Honda Civic they will go for nearly ever without fuss and with very low maintance bills and running costs.
But if you want a complicated 4x4 that is designed to try and do multiple tasks other than just commuting then be prepared for potential issues. I do not believe any true 4x4 is fault free or cheap to run and maintain and from memory just about every NRMA report on running costs for various groups of vehicles has backed that up.

The thing is the very design that makes late model Discoverys the great vehicles they are to drive and go successfully off road unlike just about any other vehicle can standard also makes them technically complicated which adds to the chances that things will go wrong and be expensive to fix.

Personally I'm prepared to put up with the issues my various Land Rovers have and or will have into the future as for me right now the benefits far outway the issues and when and or if I get sick of putting up with them then I'll just say enough is enough and move on.

Chances are though that I will remain a Land Rover owner for quite sometime into the future.


cheers,
Terry

[Disco4SE]

As I have mentioned before, any 4 x 4 requires regular maintenance and servicing. If you neglect this, you will have trouble.
As far as servicing costs, my D4 at 57K has cost less my LC100 TD at the same Klm's.
My theory is that if you have the coin to buy one, you should have the coin to maintain one................vehicle that is, not wife:D
Cheers, Craig

[Neil P]

...My theory is that if you have the coin to buy one, you should have the coin to maintain one................ Wife that is, not vehicle . :D
What's that old phrase about marriage Craig ; Ten Bob down
and your wages for the rest of your life !

PS When a Marriage License was 10 Bob .......... '50's as I recall

[bbyer]

As far as servicing costs, my D4 at 57K has cost less than my LC100 TD at the same Klm's.Cheers, Craig Over here, the LC100 is some kind of Lexus luxury SUV that is considered more upscale than the Ford Explorer SUV and may compete with the Tahoe or perhaps the Escalade.

That you say maintenance costs are higher than your D4 really surprises me. What goes wrong?

Is is just the shop labour costs for routine service, as that is very possible, but to suggest that anything could mechanically go wrong is just unheard of in the local lore. Certainly no one speaks of any sort of problem - well yes, the newspapers have lately been full of stories, but that is not the accepted norm, so should be discounted.

A relative of mine recently purchased a 4Runner and there was some fuss about the official Toyota oil not being available, (no reason provided), for some routine task so a more expensive? non Toyota product was used. Hence the oil change or whatever cost more than normal. I also recall that routine stuff on my Moms FWD Camry seemed to be even more costly than routine service costs on my Wifes 4Motion Passat but ....

The impression I have here is that most Toyota products are so technologically ancient that about the only thing that can go mechanically wrong is a shortage of old mechanics who understand their time tested systems.

Electrically, an AM/FM radio with search tuning seems still to be a big deal on a Toyota and I must say the navigation system will never fail on the top of the line 4Runner as there is none - well a portable Garmin plugged into the cigarette lighter that seems to work very well.

[101RRS]

Is is just the shop labour costs for routine service, as that is very possible, but to suggest that anything could mechanically go wrong is just unheard of in the local lore. Certainly no one speaks of any sort of problem - well yes, the newspapers have lately been full of stories, but that is not the accepted norm, so should be discounted.



Toyota Landcruiser 200 Series- "Oh what a lemon......" (http://www.ohwhatalemon.com/)

[bbyer]

Toyota Landcruiser 200 Series- "Oh what a lemon......" (http://www.ohwhatalemon.com/) I can see why Toyota has banned that guy from the "Love a Toyota" website. Somehow, I do not think he will be a repeat customer.

That actually is the key item. Given all the wailing re our Land Rovers, for the most part, we seem to keep fixing or buying new ones. Somehow I do not think it out of sympathy or a "pain makes me feel good", complex, but rather a sense that there is something unique about Land Rover. As such, there are costs and concerns not usually associated with normal vehicles.

If I were a fleet buyer of vehicles for other people to drive, I might purchase Defenders, but never anything like the Discovery or Range Rover, or for that matter, any car from Mercedes; trucks yes, but cars, no. Some vehicles are just not suitable for the multitudes.

It is pretty easy, (or should be), to build new reliable technologically old vehicles. That reality is probably my biggest problem with Toyota product. The new 4Runner here does not even have the tried and tested General Motors rear air shock design any longer available. This rear suspension was available on the previous 4Runner, (standard on my 1992 Buick Roadmaster), but with the advent of the new 4Runner, well it is Defender style coil springs all around and a solid rear axle.

At least Land Rover does not claim or infer that the Defender represents the peak of the corporations achievements; with the Discovery, they are too busy fixing to even dare to say anything. And you know what, with us doing the real world testing, I think they are ending up with a pretty reliable cutting edge 4x4.

[Mully]

So Mully I'm getting a bit confused here, are early D3's the real dud as you have said or not?

As for having doubt about the Land Rover brand from 2005 onwards, have you owned pre 2005 Landies because they are not perfect or better than a early D3 either at any stretch of the imagination.

Terry

Hi Terry, I am definitely saying the 2005 D3 has confirmed design issues. I don't think these are under any doubt. Don't take it as flaming and I should probably stay away from these forums when trying to make some of these decisions because my intention is never to bag Landies.

I've had several early Series, a 2005 diesel Freelander, '99 TD5 Disco, '98 300TDi Disco and the daughter drives a diesel Freelander so you could say we are Land Rover people and apart from my Freelander which liked to kill fuel pumps, we have enjoyed all of them. Only the D3 however has had this level of grief. A 5 year old top of the range vehicle can not justify the expense for these repairs either, if that seems ok to someone, then have lost rational thought and are clouded by their love of the brand. Understand that I am not saying that is a bad thing and I certainly have no problem with that. :)

There are some fundamentals that an objective mind can only be confused by:
1. A sealed for life transmission that will fail if you do not unseal it and service it.
2. A front end that is grossly not up to task...You are best advised to replace the wishbones in order to get bigger ball joints in.
3. An electric handbrake that likes to growl and fail.
4. A diff issue that only makes you shake your head in wonder.
5. Other items mine has possibly yet to experience but documented by others....'search' is your friend.

So yes, Land Rover dropped the ball on the 2005 D3 and yes it is an extreme vehicle but that doesn't somehow make it ok to get basics so wrong and so what if it's the first release... Doesn't make it ok when buyers have to fork out for these costs.. and they are serious costs.

I'll back out of the thread and apologize if I've given any wrong impression or have seemed anything other than objective. If a person is ok with the ongoing costs then great, enjoy this capable vehicle. I will be spending that money on upgrades (not ongoing repairs) to my capable 300TDi :D (no smart alec tone intended).

Cheers for now.

[Bushwanderer]

Mully,
You are not being objective when you cast a slur on ALL 2005 vehicles based on your single experience.

My experierience couldn't be more different (replaced transfer case ecu and brake switch, oh and luggage space cover, all under warranty).

Why is your experience more valid than mine?

Best Wishes,
Peter

[Disco4SE]

That you say maintenance costs are higher than your D4 really surprises me. What goes wrong?


bbyer, this is based on costs from the dealership for servicing, maintenance etc. Mind you, the LC100 service intervals are more frequent than LR.
Cheers, Craig

[Mully]

Hi Peter... No intention to cast a slur so I apologize if it reads that way. Just stating the facts regarding the 2005 release. I am seriously pleased that your, and I am sure many other, experiences have been good.

It is a great vehicle...us owners just need to be VERY aware of the issues...like all vehicles.

Cheers.