Brake fluid quantity?

[AussieAub]

Hi guys.
Finally got round to doing the "option B" fix on my 3 amigos, only to find after removal of the two out side allen bolts that someone got there previously to me and had attacked the centre bolt and put it back in on the pi$$, without doing the required re-wiring, knackering the head of the middle bolt in the process, and then putting the other 2 back in, in a fashion. :mad::mad:

Long story short: good friend BST4X4XFA came round as an extra pair of hands (cheers again bud) and we had to remove the ABS block completely after removing the 6x brake lines coming from it.

Option B job done and everything re-assembled, we now obviously need to bleed the system.
I have used the search button (honsestly) but need a few definitive answers:

1. Do I have to do the "power bleed" thing with a Nanacom or other system, or will an old fashioned manual bleed on all four corners suffice? We did start the latter but ran out of fluid. Will this cause a prob (obviously running out of fluid is a prob, but by starting a manual bleed am I likely to expect more issues now?)

2. How much fluid will be required, and will it depend on which method of bleeding is carried out?

3. Have tried a Nanaocm on the V8 before (not recently), and it could not even "see" the vehicle. Is this really the case? Owner of unit is/was a TD5 owner.

Bit stuck at the mo as the Disco is now sat on the drive with no brakes!
Well, it's GOT brakes, just VERY little pressure and the red brake warning light is on, and I'm going nowhere in it til it's fixed!

Any advice would be most gratefully received. :)

Cheers,

[Blknight.aus]

you can bleed it by manually firing the unit.

hit the web, grab the pinout for the unit and manually operate the valve units while you conduct a normal brake bleed.

IF your going to do it that way it might take about 2l of fluid, especially if the unit and the calipers are empty.

its easier to do it with a nanocom or similar.

[Fluids]

I bought 2.5L of brake fluid. Changed all the pads, and flushed the complete system incl' ABS using a nanocom. I have 1.5L of brake fluid left. You want at least 1L.

It's quicker to pump the brake pedal to flush the fluid through to each corner ... and even quicker with a helper to pump the pedal .... nanocom / other diagnostic tool / manually jumper the ABS relay to properly flush the ABS.

[AussieAub]

.....you can bleed it by manually firing the unit.
.....and manually operate the valve units.....
Sorry Dave, what does this mean?



....manually jumper the ABS relay to properly flush the ABS.
And again, sorry Kev, but what is "jumping the ABS" relay?

Thanks for the replies so far guys.

[AussieAub]

Another question, sorry!
Wanting to get this right, I tend to worry a little when it comes to brakes!!

Reading on a number of Landrover forums is giving conflicting info as to what RAVE is showing.
I am reading that I should bleed from the furthest wheel away from the master/ABS unit first, and work my way closer.
This is a direct contradiction of what RAVE shows, by starting at the passenger front and working the other way around the vehicle.

Can anyone clarify this too please?

Many thanks.

[tailslide]

Sorry Dave, what does this mean?



And again, sorry Kev, but what is "jumping the ABS" relay?

Thanks for the replies so far guys.

Hi Kieren,

The old fashioned manual (two operators, one with the foot and one at the bleed nipple on each caliper) bleed works good enough to get you going again.

Note: this is best performed with some beverage tubing that is long enough to go into a glass jar. Keep the end of the tube covered by brake fluid in the jar so that you don't introduce air into the system when you lift up on the brake pedal. By using this method you don't need to close the nipple on the up stroke. Makes for faster bleeding.

The "power" bleed is when you removed the ABS relay and insert a jumper wire across the "contacts" to cause the ABS pump to run. Do this after you have completed the manual bleed.

I have done the above on mine after doing the option B and removing the whole unit. In my experience there is no need to perform a Testbook power bleed.

I used this as an excuse to fully flush the brake system as well, I used about 2 1/2 bottles of DOT4 Castrol brake fluid.

Cheers
Ron

[tailslide]

Another question, sorry!
Wanting to get this right, I tend to worry a little when it comes to brakes!!

Reading on a number of Landrover forums is giving conflicting info as to what RAVE is showing.
I am reading that I should bleed from the furthest wheel away from the master/ABS unit first, and work my way closer.
This is a direct contradiction of what RAVE shows, by starting at the passenger front and working the other way around the vehicle.

Can anyone clarify this too please?

Many thanks.

Don't worry, be happy.:D:D:D I followed the RAVE method, working away from the ABS unit. It doesn't really matter, once the air is out of the block it is just going to travel down the brake lines till you squirt it out at the wheels.

Just remember to keep an eye on the reservoir level...:o

Cheers
Ron

[AussieAub]

The "power" bleed is when you removed the ABS relay and insert a jumper wire across the "contacts" to cause the ABS pump to run. Do this after you have completed the manual bleed.

Cheers
Ron

Thanks Ron.
I'm still feeling a little lost on this bit!
Where's the relay? What contacts, where? Any special wire?!
What would getting the ABS pump to run do AFTER the manual bleed?
Surely there is no where for any air to escape to afterwards, or am I missing something else?

Sorry for so many questions.....I know it's late, but just can't get my head around it clearly enough right now to be comfortable.

Cheers all, thanks for being patient!

[LOVEMYRANGIE]

You want to borrow my Nanocom mate???


Using Capitals, the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse or helping your uncle jack off a horse...

[tailslide]

Thanks Ron.
I'm still feeling a little lost on this bit!
Where's the relay? What contacts, where? Any special wire?!
What would getting the ABS pump to run do AFTER the manual bleed?
Surely there is no where for any air to escape to afterwards, or am I missing something else?

Sorry for so many questions.....I know it's late, but just can't get my head around it clearly enough right now to be comfortable.

Cheers all, thanks for being patient!

The relay (R10) is located in the engine bay fuse box, drivers side. The R10 relay is the big black one closest to the windscreen. You remove the relay and you will see four holes where the relay was plugged in. Two will be for the relay coil and the other two, the ones you want, will be for the relay contacts.

To perform the power bleed the "foot" operator shorts out the two sockets (with any wire that will fit the hole) where the contacts are. This causes the ABS pump motor to run. The other operator opens the bleed nipple on each brake in turn as per the manual bleed procedure.

So the procedure is you would open a bleed nipple then short out the ABS pump contact. Let it run for about 60 seconds. Close the nipple and stop the pump. Repeat for the other three wheels.

Cheers
Ron

[AussieAub]

You want to borrow my Nanocom mate???

If it works on the V8, a BIG yes please mate.....and instructions!
Thanks!

[AussieAub]

Awesome info Ron!
Many, many thanks!!

[LOVEMYRANGIE]

If it works on the V8, a BIG yes please mate.....and instructions!
Thanks!

No reason why it shouldn't be able to access SLABS. Might swing up after work tomorrow night.
Txt me your new address.

Andrew


Using Capitals, the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse or helping your uncle jack off a horse...

[AussieAub]

Hi Andrew.
Thanks for the offer. I have something on tomorrow night I can't get out of unfortunately, or I would.
Jurgens has offered a hand again on Tues night though at his place.
I'll get his addy and if you're free maybe give it a go there?

Cheers mate.

[clubagreenie]

So a "power bleed" doesn't require pumping apart from the initial std bleed? But you need to perform a std bleed first and obviously keep a sharp eye on the reservoir while running the pump.

And a nanocom just does the same as shorting the pump, just easier.

[LOVEMYRANGIE]

Hi Andrew.
Thanks for the offer. I have something on tomorrow night I can't get out of unfortunately, or I would.
Jurgens has offered a hand again on Tues night though at his place.
I'll get his addy and if you're free maybe give it a go there?

Cheers mate.

No probs. Just let me know.


Using Capitals, the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse or helping your uncle jack off a horse...

[Fluids]

Hey Kieren, Ron nailed it! .... I was slow in replying :)

You can also make up a 6m length of twin core wire, put a male spade lug on the ends at one end, and a toggle switch at the other end. Then you can switch the ABS pump on/off from under the vehicle at each wheel as you operate the bleed nipple.

[AussieAub]

All sorted! :D
Option B fix completed, ABS modulator back on in full working order, nice new clean brake fluid in the pipes, all codes in the computer cleared, and she now stops nice and sharp and in a straight line!

MASSIVE thanks to BST4X4XFA and LoveMyRangie respectively for the use of garage space and use of a Nanacom for power bleeding and other fault clearing.

The guys did a fantastic job in helping me get the brakes done and working again, they now appear much better than before, and no poxy orange dash lights on any more! :cool:

I've said it before and I'll say it again.....the WA-AULROian guys really are tops when it comes to giving peeps a hand.
And it gave Jurgens a bit of work out ready for the next pit crew challenge, even if we did find out his MAF sensor is now stuffed....:(

Many thanks again to all, not only for getting hands dirty, but also to other members for their invaluable help and advise on this forum.

Cheers,

[Pedro_The_Swift]

You can also make up a 6m length of twin core wire, put a male spade lug on the ends at one end, and a toggle switch at the other end. Then you can switch the ABS pump on/off from under the vehicle at each wheel as you operate the bleed nipple.


gee,, I wonder where that info came from?:angel::D

I took my ABS out to the kitchen table to work on so had the same bleed problem, a slow measured push, one at a time, quickly filled the lines. Then a power bleed from each corner finished it.
Its probably easier to do it this way than with a nanocom,, not much can go wrong with just a toggle switch to operate;)

[clubagreenie]

Is there a instruction post for the 6m wire method power bleed?

Do you just open the bleed nipple and run the pump, keeping a eye on the fluid.

[LOVEMYRANGIE]

gee,, I wonder where that info came from?:angel::D

I took my ABS out to the kitchen table to work on so had the same bleed problem, a slow measured push, one at a time, quickly filled the lines. Then a power bleed from each corner finished it.
Its probably easier to do it this way than with a nanocom,, not much can go wrong with just a toggle switch to operate;)

Bet you can't clear codes though!! ;)


Using Capitals, the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse or helping your uncle jack off a horse...

[Fluids]

gee,, I wonder where that info came from?:angel::D
;)

Well, I could have just posted "Search is your friend, look in The Good Oil" ...

... but I'd probably be accused of starting to sound like you, Pedro :p

It's all about information dissemination ... ;)

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Bet you can't clear codes though!! ;)


who gets codes?:p


actually I wonder what the code is for a broken valve spring,,,





let me guess--

$$$.$$'s:(

[LOVEMYRANGIE]

who gets codes?:p


actually I wonder what the code is for a broken valve spring,,,





let me guess--

$$$.$$'s:(

You need to put F@!^, S@=# and C@¥% in front first. If you happen to have a swearjar, this will definitely bring forth additional $$.$$ to go with your $$$.$$!
:Rolling: :rulez:


Using Capitals, the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse or helping your uncle jack off a horse...

[DCPAus]

The relay (R10) is located in the engine bay fuse box, drivers side. The R10 relay is the big black one closest to the windscreen. You remove the relay and you will see four holes where the relay was plugged in. Two will be for the relay coil and the other two, the ones you want, will be for the relay contacts.

To perform the power bleed the "foot" operator shorts out the two sockets (with any wire that will fit the hole) where the contacts are. This causes the ABS pump motor to run. The other operator opens the bleed nipple on each brake in turn as per the manual bleed procedure.

So the procedure is you would open a bleed nipple then short out the ABS pump contact. Let it run for about 60 seconds. Close the nipple and stop the pump. Repeat for the other three wheels.


Ron

I was not looking forward to replacing all the fluid in my system after replacing Pads, Discs and Caliper Guides, then I found this method, and including set up, clean up and pack away, the whole process took me 90 minutes to flush my complete system. Brakes are now great.

Thanks to Ron for the tip!!

[clubagreenie]

So for a total fluuid replacement you should perform three bleeds?

Standard foot pump bleed, power bleed then modulator bleed? Or just the Power Bleed allowing the fluid to pump through clean.

[justinc]

I just replaced a modulator on a 110 Defender, used near on a litre of fluid to flush and bleed the whole system.
It didn't need a power bleed, just bleed the system once, then go round again with a fast pedal stroke.

JC

[clubagreenie]

Sorry, for a D2. If it makes a difference. With the ABS etc...

[Roverlord off road spares]

If it works on the V8, a BIG yes please mate.....and instructions!
Thanks!

With Nanocom you buy a license for a D2 V8 or a D2 TD5. Unless you pay for 2 licenses then it will only work on the variant you paid the fee for.:mad:

*With Hawkeye, you buy a license for the vehicle say Discovery 2 and it will do both V8 and TD5:)

[OffTrack]

With Nanocom you buy a license for a D2 V8 or a D2 TD5. Unless you pay for 2 licenses then it will only work on the variant you paid the fee for.:mad:

*With Hawkeye, you buy a license for the vehicle say Discovery 2 and it will do both V8 and TD5:)

That is actually incorrect.

With the Nanocom's the only difference between the V8 and Td5 coverage is the engine ECU. Both cover SLABS, Autobox, SRS, ACE plus the ECU you have chosen. If you own a Td5 license and want to help out a mate with a V8 D2, you can access every ECU except the V8 Motronic ECU. That means you can do a ABS bleed on any D2 regardless of whether you have a Td5 or V8 license.

cheers
Paul

[justinc]

Sorry, for a D2. If it makes a difference. With the ABS etc...

Same WABCO D system, Defender has longer pipework too.

JC

[clubagreenie]

Sorry for the list of questions but does it need the ign on or running to have the system powered?

[justinc]

Ignition on, not running.

JC

[OffTrack]

Ignition on, not running.

JC

Not doubting your method works, but...

The wabco docs for the type D system say ignition must not be on, and battery terminals should be disconnected during the bleed procedure.

There is a link to the manual bleed procedure in the good oil.

Cheers
Paul

[justinc]

Not doubting your method works, but...

The wabco docs for the type D system say ignition must not be on, and battery terminals should be disconnected during the bleed procedure.

There is a link to the manual bleed procedure in the good oil.

Cheers
Paul

Sorry Paul, I thought we were still on power bleeding:angel:, even so I usually don't bother disconnecting battery for manual bleeding anyway.

JC

[OffTrack]

If you do it by the Wabco book, you manually bleed with ignition off, bleed with electronic tool, then manually bleed to finish.

Rather than rehash:

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/discovery-2/131263-d2-abs-modulator-power-bleed-2.html

In the wabco procedure:

Nanocom Power bleed is same as running modulator pump.

The Modulator Bleed is equivalent of the "pulse function".


Cheers
Paul