Diesel that doesn't foam up

[freedriver]

Hi guys, just an observation I made, Idon't know if it has been discussed or if it makes any difference. I have filled up a few times recently and the diesel didn't foam like it normally did in the past. i managed to fill the tank to the of the tank hose without any foam appearing .

Does any one know why?
It has only happened with bp diesel around perth

[Zute]

Interesting

[bigcarle]

less detergent????????

[vnx205]

I had been told that bio diesel foams less than dino diesel.

My experience seems to confirm that. Whenever i fill with cheap diesel from independent outlets, I get very little foaming. I believe that those servos have some bio diesel mixed in with the dino diesel.

[RangieBit]

Hey there,

I read somewhere that BP have been progressively rolling out their "Ultimate" Diesel across the country for the last couple of years.

This is supposed to contain less sulphur, be less harmful to DPF systems and better for the modern diesels. A whole bunch of stuff if you go for all their blurb. One of it's characteristics is also that it foams less when dispensed.

It's all there to read on their website somewhere if you can be bothered.

Don't know if this is the case for your servo but it could explain the lower foam during your top up.

Cheers,
Iain

[JDNSW]

My experience is that diesel varies in foaminess from batch to batch (even from the same bowser) for no apparent reason, probably dependent on where the base crude came from. The specification of diesel is continually getting tighter, but the amount of foaming is not part of the specification, as far as I know, and components that change this but do not affect the factors that are part of the specification are likely to be ignored by the refiners. And some changes in foaming are likely to be the result of refining changes made to meet the specifications for diesel.

To indicate just how wide the scope is for different composition, consider that both dinodiesel and biodiesel can meet the same specifications, despite having completely different chemical composition - biodiesel is composed mainly of long chain esters, while conventional diesel is primarily hydrocarbons, two completely different chemical compounds.

John

[dromader driver]

After reading some of the threads on dino diesel I decided to try the BP ultimate yesterday. Definitely less foaming compared to Caltex. Will be interested to see how the fuel consumption goes. I know biodiesel blend uses about 5% more than dino diesel. ;)

[123rover50]

I have been told there is winter diesel and summer diesel when I complained about the problem I had pumping fuel from my bulk tank. The filter blocked with wax from summer fuel used in winter. May have something to do with foaming too.

[JDNSW]

I have been told there is winter diesel and summer diesel when I complained about the problem I had pumping fuel from my bulk tank. The filter blocked with wax from summer fuel used in winter. May have something to do with foaming too.

I don't think the amount of wax as such is related to foaming, but is a good example of the differences in composition.

John

[wrinklearthur]

I have been told there is winter diesel and summer diesel when I complained about the problem I had pumping fuel from my bulk tank. The filter blocked with wax from summer fuel used in winter. May have something to do with foaming too.
Hi All

The difference in fuel is something that farmers are very aware of, around the district surounding Bothwell in central Tasmania.

There has been a few instances of engine damage, from fuel solidifying in the fuel lines and injector pumps, also when diesel that has contaminated oil in the sumps of tractors, solidifing during severe frosts, this has been due to the high amount of paraffin from the summer fuel used during the winter.


Timing the usage, then the topping up of farm storage tanks has been the answer to this problem, along with regular sump oil changes.

Cheers Arthur

[Tombie]

On a trip to Adelaide recently I filled up at the local shell.

For the trip home I could only find a BP and half way through filling up noticed the "new ultimate" sign :(

Impressions:
Engine quieter and smoother sounding.
Down on power (noticeably had to use more throttle for same amount of go)
Used 13% more to get home.

Put bluntly - it's ****

[freedriver]

The only times i have noticed the diesel not foaming up was using bp regular diesel . The first time the auto shut off on the pump didn't work and i got fuel all over my boots . The disco seems to be running ok but i think the caltex diesel runs better.

[RangieBit]

Hey there Tombie,

Chill out dude. Like the old car ad disclaimer said "your mileage may vary".

I'm sorry to hear your experience was so bad.

I've had the opposite experience. Have generally always filled with BP (old habits from days when it was a company fuel card) and they were the only chain anywhere near me carrying Alpine Diesel during the winter months anyway. Brand loyalty I think the demographers call it.

While on a trip through the Flinders Ranges last October I filled up on other fuels a couple of times due to the lack of BP at the time.

Result: fuel consumption up, NVH up and power/torque down.

These are all mostly highway transit miles so not an unfair comparison.

Given my experience I'd class the other guys dino juice as ****.

It all boils down to a plethora of variables; from fuel sources, to engine tune, to air temperature/density and lots more, including personal preference. I tend to think the whole lot evens out in the end.

Your experience may not change my habits. Mine is unlikely to change yours. Are either of us unhappy with our everyday choices? I think not. Viva la difference. Without it there's no hope for us as a species.

Happy Rovering,
Iain

[Tombie]

Not un-chilled.....

Always liked BP fuel and SA only just got this bio-rubbish blended stuff.

I agree one can get differing NVH from one batch or brand of fuel to another.

But the consumption change and obvious loss of power was very noticeable....

Topped up with local Shell product and within 5km was back to usual sound and power came back. (So did some NVH)

[scott oz]

For what it’s worth.

I carry about 170Lt of fuel and use my 2001 TD5 as the daily comute into and out of Sydney.

I’ve every fuel receipt and kept complete records of fuel consumption since I purchased the Def.

I always go (trips excepted) to the same servo to fill up. Following another thread I switched servos and now go to Caltex and fill using their vortex (?) Did notice it foamed a bit when filling.

Switching to Caltex I immediately dropped fuel consumption by about ¾ L/100 power seemed improved (possible placebo) as did engine running. I now get under 10L/100 in Sydney driving. Not bad. (This improvement is over 6,319K’s).

Some years ago (had 200TDI Dico) I filled up at a “discount” fuel station a few times. It was directly opposite a Shell and was always 10c L cheaper than the Shell. I noticed a difference in power and consumption all bad. So stopped going.

About six months later I understand the station owner was charged with fuel dilution and was sued by a fleet owner for engine damage caused to his fleet of Volvo’s.

So I’m particular about the fuel that goes in and the oil I use. Now both Caltex.

(sorry if I drifted right off topic):)

[DBKDISCO]

The answer to why BP Ultimate Diesel foams up less is due to the anti foaming ageant that is added, a long with the high performance injector cleaner, also it has the same sulphur level as ALL diesel sold in Australia, the legislated specification is 10ppm max. On any given day it will float between this, but never over 10ppm amd as low as 1ppm.
How do I know this? I work for BP.

The other comment on DPFs blocking is due to bio diesel, all vehicles sold in Australia now that have DPFs must be able to take up to 10ppm sulphur level,

I cant wait until BP Ultimate Diesel comes to Melbourne its a good product

[Dougal]

Hi All

The difference in fuel is something that farmers are very aware of, around the district surounding Bothwell in central Tasmania.

There has been a few instances of engine damage, from fuel solidifying in the fuel lines and injector pumps, also when diesel that has contaminated oil in the sumps of tractors, solidifing during severe frosts, this has been due to the high amount of paraffin from the summer fuel used during the winter.


Timing the usage, then the topping up of farm storage tanks has been the answer to this problem, along with regular sump oil changes.

Cheers Arthur

I've never heard of or experienced engine damage from waxed up diesel. It happens a lot here too.
It's just a major inconvenience when it's cold and nothing will start.

[jx2mad]

I can remember when.... diesel was honey coloured and oily to the touch. Jim

[dromader driver]

BP Fuel check
ust completed a fuel consumption check in the ute on a full load of BP dino diesel. Worked out at 9.23 litres/100km wandering around town, kids taxi etc. Not much above 80km/hr in traffic. Definitely foamed less on filling
checking a load of Caltex now.

[ramblingboy42]

Well this is interesting. As far as I know there is only two diesel manufacturers in australia......please correct me if I am misinformed. One is BP qld. I believe diesel is trucked all over Australia...I know for a fact that the William Ck Hotel is going to be(or already being) charged an extra 22c/litre transport costs. I assume this is the new diesel fuel. But I'm sure there cant be that much variation. Where do Freedom fuels mix their 20% biodiesel before distribution and by the sound of it other brands mix additives too. There should be website declaring all this so motorists can be clearly informed

[vnx205]

Last edited by ramblingboy42; 11th June 2011 at 04:36 PM. Reason: spelling and punctuation.......don't you hate bad spelling and poor punctuation?

Yes. :p

[ramblingboy42]

I fart in your general direction

[JDNSW]

Well this is interesting. As far as I know there is only two diesel manufacturers in australia......please correct me if I am misinformed. One is BP qld. I believe diesel is trucked all over Australia...I know for a fact that the William Ck Hotel is going to be(or already being) charged an extra 22c/litre transport costs. I assume this is the new diesel fuel. But I'm sure there cant be that much variation. Where do Freedom fuels mix their 20% biodiesel before distribution and by the sound of it other brands mix additives too. There should be website declaring all this so motorists can be clearly informed

Even though there are only two manufacturers in Australia, that does not mean that there are only two varieties of diesel. The diesel supplied will vary as the source of crude varies, and in addition I would be surprised if there are not additional cargoes of refined diesel imported on an ad hoc basis both by the refiners and by other wholesalers or even retailers. Add to this the (small) production of biodiesel, which may be blended in varying amounts, possibly at a retail level, and there is a lot of scope for different varieties of diesel - all of which is required to meet the specification (and probably mostly does), but that specification does not include the extent of foaming - it is concerned mainly with cetane number, sulphur content and pour point, and little else.

John

[dromader driver]

Refuelled today at Woolies with foamy diesel. Last run on Caltex was 9.21l/100km. Again nothing over 80km/hr due speed limits and running around after kids etc in the traffic.
Will be interested to see how the Woolies goes but I think it is Caltex anyway.

When I remember will do a specific gravity check on the two suppliers.

Cheers