New 4.6 or 5L engine project about to kick off

[LavisLane]

Some may have seen a previous post about low compression –
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/p38a-range-rover/124390-low-compression-all-cylinders-3.html
Here’s what’s next;

Lots of tests and symptom analysis says that the low compression and oil usage of my P38 will require ring replacement in cylinder 2. Seems such a small thing to say it like that but will be at least a $5.5k fix including the bottom end rebuild and associated mandatory’s that go with that kind of fix.

Details – 175,000 kms, blue smoke on high revs, sooty splashes in the driveway below exhaust, using about 4L of oil (25W 60) every 1500kms, rubbish power in the low end, fine above 3000.

So, if i’m going to throw a good chunk of cash as a long term investment in keeping her as my daily drive for another 5-10 years i might as well do it properly.

Thoughts;
• Option 1 - Basic bottom end rebuild, head gasket, new radiator will be about $5.5k – this is the sensible approach. However, I’m a little worried of something else in the this 175k engine could be on the way out. Maybe I should start fresh?
• Option 2 - Long motor (new coscast block) with a stage 1 upgrade (updated heads, cam) from RPI will be about $8k landed. Installed? Would i then sell my current long engine? How much would I get?
• Option 3 - Long motor from triumph rover spares in SA – 5L upgrade (stroker kit and top hat liners), LPG direct injection – about $10,900. Will use my current engine for that price or exchange.

Timing – want to get this happening in the next month...

The sensible guy inside says go cheap and easy. The rest of me says to hell with that, let’s go hard and go as big as possible while buying reliability and enjoyment in a longer term investment with better resale down the track.

Would really like to get some thoughts on this one, any ideas welcomed!

Thanks,

Dave

[RR P38]

The coscast sounds like the go to me.
I was looking at their 4.8L versions the other night.
It would be nice to have a new engine on standby in the shed.

If you are doing a rebuild i dont think i would bother with a top hat job.
Nor would i do a rebuild without a new cam timing chain, heads etc this would be false economy if you are looking at keeping it for 10 years.

Just a little more power would be nice, but i think the std 4.6 is working pretty hard pulling the P38.

[DT-P38]

Just wondering why you haven't put new short motor and top hatted short motor as an option?

I had this similar "10- year car" decision a couple of years ago... but mine was cooked and sitting... if yours is driveable can't you find a river or a wall to drive it into?!? Anyway back to reality, at that time I opted to go a new short motor (from LR installed by backyarder LR mechanic relo of a mate) but knowing more now I would probably have gone for top hatted short motor. I'm sure I have read here they can be bought out of the UK for $5K or around that.

[p38arover]

If I was in this position now, I think I'd move to a diesel L322 - especially if the car is running and able to be sold as is. L322s have dropped a lot in price in the past couple of years.

What is stopping me going to an L322 is that I went through the full engine rebuild and performance upgrade when I top-hatted my engine a year or so ago. I now have too much money tied up in the P38A.

[Keithy P38]

I'd say that the P38 is well worth hanging on to, if it were my money i'd do it right straight up.

Go the 5 litre and get something you know you'll be happy with. It leaves you with the satisfaction that your driving a solid 4x4 with a reliable donk. Provided the rest of the car is in good order you should have a trouble free 5-10yr run!

Cheers
Keithy

[RR P38]

I would look at getting a towing cam, get as much bottom end torque out of it as you can.
And if you get an exchange trans you will really be set up for another 10 years, by which time you will be driving a vintage car.

[bluedisco2]

Ok my two cents worth - we did a complete rebuild and top hat liner job on our 4lt D2 a couple of years ago now. Other than the $1200 for a set of top hats and the machining the rest of it is just simple engine reconditioning that any one of a number of reputable companies can do. Think outside the green oval and get quotes from a few well known engine reconditioners making sure you ask them to include the top hat liner work.
The standard 4.6 in fresh form is a very adequate performer. Unless you also want to have the added expense of then having to get the fuel system programmed to allow for the additional fuel required by the stroker - forget it! The standard P38 engine manegement is not up to serious performance upgrades - it is a low compression engine after all! When the engine is reconditioned a performance upgrade cam is of little cost and the best way to go - the other performance consideration would be a good triple cut valve seat job - do both those and the P38 will pull like a bull and be reliable.
We have managed to extract about 300hp out of the 4 lt but the result has really been due to huge effort and the fact we race cars and have access to dyno's etc made it possible. My advice - keep it as standard as possible or you will make a money pit for yourself!
I hope this helps,
cheers,
Deano

[p38arover]

Mine had tophat liners, HC pistons, full crank balance, flowed heads, ports matched, towing cam, injected LPG, Haltech Interceptor aftermarket engine management. It goes quite nicely but, even with all that, it still accelerated more slowly than PaulP38a's car - at least it did the last time we checked. Maybe it's time for some more comparison runs. :)

[LavisLane]

I guessed this was going to be a tricky one ;)

I think the issues raised about maintaining reliability are really important. i really don't want to overwork this into a money pit.

I like the idea of an L322 but, from what I've seen on carsales etc, i'm looking at a minimum $40k. With the engine as is, i'm guessing $14k for mine would be as good as I'll get. if I spend $10k on it, I'm in a better position. Better for resale as well since it has all the trimmings and in very good condition (aside from a few small off road battle scars word with pride ;)

I like the economy of diesel but to be honest, one of my loves for the P38 is the V8 sound. If i'm burning that much fuel, I want to hear it. (I know Ron has a particular distaste for loud P38's - sorry Ron ;)

So, I'm looking for a solution with a focus on reliability as well as getting as much power out of it as possible. (aren't we all!) I'm ok with spending the money to achieve these goals - within limits...

[LavisLane]

Mine had tophat liners, HC pistons, full crank balance, flowed heads, ports matched, towing cam, injected LPG, Haltech Interceptor aftermarket engine management. It goes quite nicely but, even with all that, it still accelerated more slowly than PaulP38a's car - at least it did the last time we checked. Maybe it's time for some more comparison runs. :)

Still 4.6 i'm guessing? Where was all that done Ron?

[DT-P38]

People doing this reco process on an existing car should get carbon tax credits!

What is the footprint of producing a new vehicle?

Make sure you go Inj LPG in the process. Ask Junosi if he'll make you an upright spare holder and cover

[LavisLane]

People doing this reco process on an existing car should get carbon tax credits!

What is the footprint of producing a new vehicle?



Hilarious, that's the way I pitched the cost to the missus ;)

[101RRS]

Over capitalisation big time does come to mind - the engine will worth more than the car. I would flog the car off and get something that better suits your need.

Garry

[p38arover]

Still 4.6 i'm guessing? Where was all that done Ron?

Yep, 4.6. Graeme Cooper installed the Interceptor after the engine build by Davis Performance Landys.

I picked up the Haltech off eVilBay.

[big guy]

Some may have seen a previous post about low compression –
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/p38a-range-rover/124390-low-compression-all-cylinders-3.html
Here’s what’s next;

Lots of tests and symptom analysis says that the low compression and oil usage of my P38 will require ring replacement in cylinder 2. Seems such a small thing to say it like that but will be at least a $5.5k fix including the bottom end rebuild and associated mandatory’s that go with that kind of fix.

Details – 175,000 kms, blue smoke on high revs, sooty splashes in the driveway below exhaust, using about 4L of oil (25W 60) every 1500kms, rubbish power in the low end, fine above 3000.

So, if i’m going to throw a good chunk of cash as a long term investment in keeping her as my daily drive for another 5-10 years i might as well do it properly.

Thoughts;
• Option 1 - Basic bottom end rebuild, head gasket, new radiator will be about $5.5k – this is the sensible approach. However, I’m a little worried of something else in the this 175k engine could be on the way out. Maybe I should start fresh?
• Option 2 - Long motor (new coscast block) with a stage 1 upgrade (updated heads, cam) from RPI will be about $8k landed. Installed? Would i then sell my current long engine? How much would I get?
• Option 3 - Long motor from triumph rover spares in SA – 5L upgrade (stroker kit and top hat liners), LPG direct injection – about $10,900. Will use my current engine for that price or exchange.

Timing – want to get this happening in the next month...

The sensible guy inside says go cheap and easy. The rest of me says to hell with that, let’s go hard and go as big as possible while buying reliability and enjoyment in a longer term investment with better resale down the track.

Would really like to get some thoughts on this one, any ideas welcomed!

Thanks,

Dave

I hesitate to suggest you spend as little as possible.

Get a 2nd hand motor with a warranty or just get your motor top hatted.

I live near TRS and their 5L is a monster job and not sure if the rest of the running gear is up to it as its aging also and the extra stress will probably kill it.

Perhaps even wreck your car, cut your losses and buy one where some poor person has spend the big bucks already.

[wanglemoose]

i have the TRS 5 liter in mine and they make the car worth driving. it got nearly 1000ks on it now and it keeps getting stronger every day. the engines come unbalanced and un assembled so unless you have someone that can build it for you or you can do it yourself its a massive job. mine ended up taking 9 days from starting to pull the 4L out to the 5L running. it now chirps the tires on launch and averages 4L/100k better on fuel than the 4L did aswell. I also had to upgrade to the 4hp24 too.

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[RR P38]

"Over capitalisation":( "spend too much":( "Buy another RR":(

No way if you are into your P38 keep it, if you spend $10k on it you are certain to have a good rig and with the 5 litre in it she will go very nicely:)

[big guy]

i have the TRS 5 liter in mine and they make the car worth driving. it got nearly 1000ks on it now and it keeps getting stronger every day. the engines come unbalanced and un assembled so unless you have someone that can build it for you or you can do it yourself its a massive job. mine ended up taking 9 days from starting to pull the 4L out to the 5L running. it now chirps the tires on launch and averages 4L/100k better on fuel than the 4L did aswell. I also had to upgrade to the 4hp24 too.

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Very nice ;)

[LavisLane]

buy one where some poor person has spend the big bucks already.

Nice idea but that guy is me ;) have put about $15-18k into my P38 already and dont regret a cent. Might as well do the job right I spose and finish it with a proper engine... Next stop, Hard Range!

[Grumbles]

$15/18 grand? What on a P38 soaks up that sort of money?

[p38arover]

$15/18 grand? What on a P38 soaks up that sort of money?

Over 10 years, quite a lot. :(

[wanglemoose]

$15/18 grand? What on a P38 soaks up that sort of money?

wel my p38 owes me 32 grand at the moment but the only things i havnt replaced are the computers, the interior, the body, the diffs and the transfer case. everything else it new.

[98se40]

Hi Guys,
well, I cooked my motor 2 months ago, and have just received it back and running in. For $8k I got my 4.0 redone with:

T-Top liners
New camshaft bearings
Linish crankshaft
new main cap bearings
new conrod bearings
new pistons / rings ( high compression 9.35:1 spec )
new camshaft
new lifter set
new timing chain
heads serviced
all seals / gaskets
all labour and oils/fluids etc etc
Im happy so far, but will be taking a good run after the initial run in of 800 klms

I intend to keep for a long time yet, hence the outlay

Cheers

[PaulP38a]

$8k for that sounds very reasonable. I had much less done a few years ago and cost me a lot more.

As much as I like the idea of a bigger motor in mine, I predict that in the next 5 years we will see electric motor conversions becoming a feasible replacement option for petrol engines.

The P38 will be a perfect choice for this. Strong, rust resistant body and chassis, big engine bay for an electric and supplementary petrol/diesel generator, large roof area for solar panels to trickle charge the system, and lots of nooks to house those AA battery sized power cells that will likely become the standard for conversions.

A P38 still looks good wherever it goes, on or off-road. You get a lot of car for the money... $5-15k for a pre-99 and $10-25k for a 99-02 model that handles better than most "modern" 4wd's and has a huge amount of comfort.

Like many here, I don't begrudge spending money on my P38 as it is what I want to drive. $5-10k a year in maintenance on a vehicle that I own outright is still less than a new Commodore or Falcon on HP or lease, plus maintenance. My Crewman ute costs over $10k/year to run and it gives me nowhere near the pleasure of my P38(s). It is just a car.

Bring on the electric revolution for the P38, and a way to keep that lovely V8 rumble :D

Cheers, Paul.

[big guy]

I too would like a P38 as my Navara whilst it does everything well, it does not exceed in any area at all.

Thats what landy has got so right, its a affliction to the brand and the way it goes about its business.
The P38 has been on my list and only ever had my mates 01 HSE for a week while he was on holidays and must say, it was very memorable.

Perhaps if its a keeper and financially its no real issue, its not really a waste as its what you really wanted.

Besides, when at the lights and you put your foot down and she goes like a cut snake, its pretty rewarding. One of my RRC's used to chirp its tyres like mad. That was a special car indeed.
So go for it mate. You only live once. (I think):D

[wanglemoose]

if you real want to see where the limit is this is my mates county 110 and has an 8.2L chrysler big block and everything suspension and running gear wise is to dakar spec with maxdirve locks. it makes 430hp at 710ft/lb will lift the front wheels off the ground and is faster than an ss and xr8, it has also sat beside a suzuki GS550 to 150k's. dont ask the cost as its HUGE.
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[jsp]

whats the rest of the car like? Mine is in what I call poor condition, with people telling me - those things wrong are all small cheap weekend jobs you can do yourself, which is fine, but multiplied by 30 or 40 jobs to 20 or 30 weekends at maybe $50 in bits a job and then you have to start thinking about it.

But if your car's in good nick spend the dollars and get it done up :) I would!

I would be spending allot more on mine if all the plastics weren't so brittle......

[Hoges]

$8k for that sounds very reasonable. I had much less done a few years ago and cost me a lot more.

As much as I like the idea of a bigger motor in mine, I predict that in the next 5 years we will see electric motor conversions becoming a feasible replacement option for petrol engines.

.......
Bring on the electric revolution for the P38, and a way to keep that lovely V8 rumble :D


Cheers, Paul.

is there a deal for you?!! ;)
YouTube - ‪Shonky and the SoundRacer V8‬‏

[PaulP38a]

Cool, gotta get one of those for the TD4 Freelander ;)

[pibby]

spoke to ian at trs 2 days ago. 'closed' new 4.6 top hat, heads, 9.8 Cr for lpg, wade cam of your choice. $5k inc gst. surcharge if no exchange motor. up and running in a day.

didn't go into nitty gritty details (mostly coz it all sounds great but i don't have experience/knowledge to sort fact from fiction).

brett.