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Eddie S
5th June 2011, 10:00 AM
G'day all, I haven't decided which way to go with my 186 S3 Landy's gearbox. Just re capping, my gearbox jumps out of gear down steep decent in low range sometimes jumps out of transfer case in low range also. At other times has jumped out in top gear on freeway on over run just as you come over a rise lifting your foot off the throttle, never jumps out of gear under power however. Also has jumped out of gears 1st 2nd 3rd high range down a steep decent say like Jenolan Caves. My question is does my gearbox need to come out for a rebuild? The box was to be done by previous owner had it repaired at Land Vehicle Spares - I have the receipts for that. Could it be something simple?, which I doubt:( I have consided a Nissan 5 speed conversion which sounds like a very big job beyond me:( - (by the way thanks for all of your responses).
I would like to here from those who have had an original 4speed behind there holden powered Landy - have you had a good run out of yours? towed heavy loads across long distances? How about off road work has the gearbox stood up ok? I know a lot depends on driving style and heavy right foot. My apologies for the length of this post however I'm new to Landrover and keen to learn:) Any advice and input would be greatly appreciated on this topic. Best regards Eddie ( owner of Winston Ruff Nutts) :eek:

chazza
6th June 2011, 04:27 PM
It might be worth checking, or changing the detent springs that hold the selector shafts in place and whilst you are at it, the detent balls and plungers as well; they are accessible without removing the gearbox.

However; from what I have read on the Series 2 and 3 forum it could be a case of worn shafts inside the box. Wagoo is a champ on Land Rover gearboxes and he should be able to help you better than I can, but read through the gearbox posts on the above mentioned,

Cheers Charlie

Eddie S
6th June 2011, 09:44 PM
It might be worth checking, or changing the detent springs that hold the selector shafts in place and whilst you are at it, the detent balls and plungers as well; they are accessible without removing the gearbox.

However; from what I have read on the Series 2 and 3 forum it could be a case of worn shafts inside the box. Wagoo is a champ on Land Rover gearboxes and he should be able to help you better than I can, but read through the gearbox posts on the above mentioned,

Cheers Charlie
Thanks mate I've changed them - still jumps out:( Best regards Eddie.

Lotz-A-Landies
6th June 2011, 10:00 PM
Eddie

I feel that both your gearbox and transfer box need overhaul. Jumping out of second and third are classic symptoms of worn gearbox and similarly jumping out of low on the over-run. The classic low range is on a steep decent using engine braking, going over a slight rise, such as where there is a terrace across the road to stop water erosion then low range drops out as you go onto the next decent.

If you have a Delo adapter plate, they are renown for being out of square and reducing the life of the main gearbox. Delo kits have cast aluminium engine mounts.

Diana

Blknight.aus
6th June 2011, 10:48 PM
time for a rebuild.

if you're lucky its just the dogs and syncros, if not its a total rebuild.

pfillery
7th June 2011, 06:33 AM
Hi Eddie,

Check the position of the red transfer lever before doing anything too drastic. Mine used to jump out of gears too. Failed a roadworthy because of it. I found that the cutout in the floor where the red lever comes through was too small and the lever was almost in the neutral position, when it was bumped the gears would pop out. I pulled the boot up and cut a bit of the floor away, only a matter of a few milimetres, and that helped the problem. My gearbox mounts were worn too so replaced them to stop the movement. It has to do with how the conversion was done I think. Mine runs the standard 4 speed and TF behind a 186. I drive nearly 100km round trip every day to work and the combo seems to work well. I'm about to convert to gas for better economy.

Eddie S
7th June 2011, 08:53 PM
Hi Eddie,

Check the position of the red transfer lever before doing anything too drastic. Mine used to jump out of gears too. Failed a roadworthy because of it. I found that the cutout in the floor where the red lever comes through was too small and the lever was almost in the neutral position, when it was bumped the gears would pop out. I pulled the boot up and cut a bit of the floor away, only a matter of a few milimetres, and that helped the problem. My gearbox mounts were worn too so replaced them to stop the movement. It has to do with how the conversion was done I think. Mine runs the standard 4 speed and TF behind a 186. I drive nearly 100km round trip every day to work and the combo seems to work well. I'm about to convert to gas for better economy.
Thanks mate I've done the cut out on red gear lever as have been advised by you and LVS and still have not solved problem. I have'nt checked out all engine and G/B mounts however. Been in contact with LVS who want to have a look at it. I told them I wasn't happy with it. So here goes - I hope to have this prob sorted out soon.:eek:

Eddie S
8th June 2011, 06:43 AM
Eddie

I feel that both your gearbox and transfer box need overhaul. Jumping out of second and third are classic symptoms of worn gearbox and similarly jumping out of low on the over-run. The classic low range is on a steep decent using engine braking, going over a slight rise, such as where there is a terrace across the road to stop water erosion then low range drops out as you go onto the next decent.

If you have a Delo adapter plate, they are renown for being out of square and reducing the life of the main gearbox. Delo kits have cast aluminium engine mounts.

Diana
Thanks Diana, don't know wich adapter plate I have, - must have a closer look, what tou have described is exactly what its doing. Looks like total rebuild:( I just wish there was an easy 5speed stronger gearbox conversion out there to suit these old S3s. Best regards Eddie.

wagoo
8th June 2011, 07:07 PM
Your gearbox and transfercase sounds like it is well past its use by date Eddy and requires a complete overhaul.I have found most brands of Holden adaptors to be out of true,and require dialling in to address the issue of jumping out of 4 th gear.
The input shaft and front end of mainshaft wobbling around offcentre due to the untrue adaptor doesn't do the other gears or selectors much good either, and series 3 1st and 2nd gears don't really need any additional help to cause them to jump out of 1st and second gears.
Sorry I can't offer any easy alternative gearbox suggestions short of fitting a complete gearbox/transfercase assembly from some other vehicle such as a LandCruiser or MQ Nissan Patrol. Later Patrols have centred rear output shafts that don't suit LandRover offcentre rear diffs. this is assuming of course that you can buy an adaptor plate for these to fit a Holden engine.
Wagoo.

Eddie S
8th June 2011, 09:19 PM
Your gearbox and transfercase sounds like it is well past its use by date Eddy and requires a complete overhaul.I have found most brands of Holden adaptors to be out of true,and require dialling in to address the issue of jumping out of 4 th gear.
The input shaft and front end of mainshaft wobbling around offcentre due to the untrue adaptor doesn't do the other gears or selectors much good either, and series 3 1st and 2nd gears don't really need any additional help to cause them to jump out of 1st and second gears.
Sorry I can't offer any easy alternative gearbox suggestions short of fitting a complete gearbox/transfercase assembly from some other vehicle such as a LandCruiser or MQ Nissan Patrol. Later Patrols have centred rear output shafts that don't suit LandRover offcentre rear diffs. this is assuming of course that you can buy an adaptor plate for these to fit a Holden engine.
Wagoo.
Cheers mate that's what I've thought all along but I was just hoping for a magic fix. Thanks all the same..:(

marc
12th June 2011, 10:43 AM
did'nt know this was a common problem. have run 186 with 4 speed landy box for past 20yrs in my daily driver s1, towing boat up and down to the hawsbury river from hornsby no problem's. saying that, it is getting noisey and d'ont know if it's g'box or transfer got another g,box and t/c don't know what year(told 2a)and 202 hope to mate these up for quick change over save separating old 186 if i can just figure which clutch an pressure plate to use. anyway no problem's in the past hope for luck with new setup,was quoted 1,200 bucks to reco old box in hornsby.good luck with your's marc

Eddie S
12th June 2011, 05:47 PM
did'nt know this was a common problem. have run 186 with 4 speed landy box for past 20yrs in my daily driver s1, towing boat up and down to the hawsbury river from hornsby no problem's. saying that, it is getting noisey and d'ont know if it's g'box or transfer got another g,box and t/c don't know what year(told 2a)and 202 hope to mate these up for quick change over save separating old 186 if i can just figure which clutch an pressure plate to use. anyway no problem's in the past hope for luck with new setup,was quoted 1,200 bucks to reco old box in hornsby.good luck with your's marc
Thanks mate, that gives me a little more confidence with mine although both T/F and B/B prob need total rebuild. Do you run a Hi spee T/F case? does anybody else recommend this conversion? Best rgards Eddie.:)

navigation2000
12th June 2011, 10:57 PM
Cheers mate that's what I've thought all along but I was just hoping for a magic fix. Thanks all the same..:(

Hi Eddie,

I know you're feeling daunted by the swap to another brand of box, given the modifications required, so why don't you just try to snag another SIII box, same as the one you already have?

I know they're not exactly easy to find, as I was hunting for one myself, to no avail, and that's why I went for the Nissan box.

My freshly rebuilt (only 2060klm) SIII box is still sitting here in Melbourne, waiting to be shipped back up to Qld for a warranty repair to 1st gear(inexplicably failed while at idle in a carpark, of all places), but I'm holding off sending it up there just for now due to the required shipping funds being used to get this Nissan conversion completed.

Once I get this thing going, like in maybe 2 weeks or so, I should then be in a position to send the box back up to the repairer, and if you're then still hunting for one, I'd be happy to redirect it down to Sydney to help you out.

If you can hold out a while longer with the one you've got, and your transfer box is reasonably ok, it might be a plan.

I was going to sell the repaired box once it arrived back here anyway, so yeah, it's up to you.

Eddie S
13th June 2011, 11:59 AM
Hi Eddie,

I know you're feeling daunted by the swap to another brand of box, given the modifications required, so why don't you just try to snag another SIII box, same as the one you already have?

I know they're not exactly easy to find, as I was hunting for one myself, to no avail, and that's why I went for the Nissan box.

My freshly rebuilt (only 2060klm) SIII box is still sitting here in Melbourne, waiting to be shipped back up to Qld for a warranty repair to 1st gear(inexplicably failed while at idle in a carpark, of all places), but I'm holding off sending it up there just for now due to the required shipping funds being used to get this Nissan conversion completed.

Once I get this thing going, like in maybe 2 weeks or so, I should then be in a position to send the box back up to the repairer, and if you're then still hunting for one, I'd be happy to redirect it down to Sydney to help you out.

If you can hold out a while longer with the one you've got, and your transfer box is reasonably ok, it might be a plan.

I was going to sell the repaired box once it arrived back here anyway, so yeah, it's up to you.
Thanks mate thats an idea, I'm not sure what suffix type of box I have and whether a 4cyl or 6cyl box has been used on the Holden conversion , something to do with where the bolts line up on the bell housing 12o' clock or 10o'clock. Parden my vagueness still getting use to Landrovers. I think its best also to do up the T/F case as well, not sure whether to step it up my Fairy O/D is stuffed not worth repairing due to costs. I may be interested if this G/B needs to be replaced I need to find out whats the matter with it first. I will keep you posted on how I'm going. I,m really enjoying you're thread its very impressive I really like that Nissan 5sp conversion. Best regards Eddie.:)

marc
16th June 2011, 10:14 PM
Thanks mate, that gives me a little more confidence with mine although both T/F and B/B prob need total rebuild. Do you run a Hi spee T/F case? does anybody else recommend this conversion? Best rgards Eddie.:)

g'day ed no i still run stanard t/f i think high speed cases are around $900 now, still lookin around i think rainge diff centres are the cheaper way to go. got talkin to a mechanic today gave me the phone no. of ''the gear box factory'' 28 queens st revesby (97721642) i'll give them a call see what i come up with there,slow and steady but we'll get there. good luck. marc

Eddie S
17th June 2011, 06:49 AM
g'day ed no i still run stanard t/f i think high speed cases are around $900 now, still lookin around i think rainge diff centres are the cheaper way to go. got talkin to a mechanic today gave me the phone no. of ''the gear box factory'' 28 queens st revesby (97721642) i'll give them a call see what i come up with there,slow and steady but we'll get there. good luck. marc
Thanks mate, I'm familiar with THE GEARBOX FACTORY at Revesby, not sure of pricing but will check them out. I'm going to ring Dellow Automotive at Revesby and ask them of any 5sp conversions planned for these S3 old girls. Best regards Eddie.:)

navigation2000
17th June 2011, 09:38 AM
Eddie,

This is well worth your immediate attention:

LANDROVER | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/LANDROVER-/250839344821?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a6730a6b5)

It was originally listed with a $1250 tag, yet drew no buyer.

It's now been relisted for $890.

If I hadn't already gone as far as I have with my Nissan 5 speed conversion, I'd have jumped on that the first time around.

Could just be the most practical solution for you.:BigThumb:

Eddie S
17th June 2011, 07:45 PM
Eddie,

This is well worth your immediate attention:

LANDROVER | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/LANDROVER-/250839344821?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a6730a6b5)

It was originally listed with a $1250 tag, yet drew no buyer.

It's now been relisted for $890.

If I hadn't already gone as far as I have with my Nissan 5 speed conversion, I'd have jumped on that the first time around.

Could just be the most practical solution for you.:BigThumb:
Thanks mate I'm looking at it very carefully I might take it let you Know I'll call the guy up tomorrow. Best regards Eddie:)

pfillery
18th June 2011, 08:50 AM
You'd want to hope it was ok after sitting (or that it was genuinely an unused box).

Navigation2000, how much were you hoping to get for your sIII gearbox? I'm in Brisbane and wouldn't mind a spare if the price is right. Might save some freight costs.

Eddie S
18th June 2011, 09:20 AM
You'd want to hope it was ok after sitting (or that it was genuinely an unused box).

Navigation2000, how much were you hoping to get for your sIII gearbox? I'm in Brisbane and wouldn't mind a spare if the price is right. Might save some freight costs.
Yep, very good point will do. Thanks mate:)

navigation2000
18th June 2011, 10:56 AM
You'd want to hope it was ok after sitting (or that it was genuinely an unused box).

Navigation2000, how much were you hoping to get for your sIII gearbox? I'm in Brisbane and wouldn't mind a spare if the price is right. Might save some freight costs.

Eddie,

I agree with pfillery, you will need to ensure it's genuinely unused.

I don't know if the seller is able to confidently confirm this, given that the unit was probably sourced at auction somewhere, but having said that, I do believe it to be a new and therefore unused unit.

You should be able to determine visually if it is a brand spanker, so a trip to visit the seller would be the next move I'd be making if I were you.

Even if it is a newie, you would probably still want to re-gasket/seal the whole thing, just to be safe.


@pfillery,

PM me with your phone number so we can talk about it, if you wish.

Eddie S
18th June 2011, 04:30 PM
Eddie,

I agree with pfillery, you will need to ensure it's genuinely unused.

I don't know if the seller is able to confidently confirm this, given that the unit was probably sourced at auction somewhere, but having said that, I do believe it to be a new and therefore unused unit.

You should be able to determine visually if it is a brand spanker, so a trip to visit the seller would be the next move I'd be making if I were you.

Even if it is a newie, you would probably still want to re-gasket/seal the whole thing, just to be safe.


@pfillery,

PM me with your phone number so we can talk about it, if you wish.
Yep mate I agree, tried to call him no ans, left a message, hope to hear something soon. Just a quick question, my gear lever comes virtually strait up out of the floor - no kink init, I assume its a six cylander bell housing?? are the g/b all the same or is it some differance in the S3 boxes that I dont know about? If I buy this g/b I assume all I do is swap the bellhousing over from my Landy? Thanks best regards Eddie:)

navigation2000
19th June 2011, 12:16 AM
Yep mate I agree, tried to call him no ans, left a message, hope to hear something soon. Just a quick question, my gear lever comes virtually strait up out of the floor - no kink init, I assume its a six cylander bell housing?? are the g/b all the same or is it some differance in the S3 boxes that I dont know about? If I buy this g/b I assume all I do is swap the bellhousing over from my Landy? Thanks best regards Eddie:)

Hi Eddie,

I'm not right up with the ID processes of these things, but my SIII box also had a straight up and down gearshift, and zooming in on the image of the one for sale, it looks just like mine.

You would unbolt yours at the adaptor plate, and drop the whole thing out in 1 go.

Not sure what equipment you have at hand, so not sure if you're planning to drop it down beneath the vehicle and then slide it out, or lift it up and take it out through the passenger side door.

I can certainly give you a step by step guide to the lifting it out through the door method.

If you do proceed, snag a new clutch and pressure plate, thrust bearing and spigot, gearbox mounts etc, as well.

I reckon if you're going to pull up your sleeves and get into it, you may as well do it once and be done with it.

Revisiting the gearbox swap later on, due to lack of preparation, or opting to run with old parts, is just madness in my opinion.

Having said that, I reckon you could knock it over pretty quick, with the right gear at hand, and with a bit of a step by step guide to follow.

I can PM you with my phone number if you want, and that way if you ever need a quick answer for something, just call, my phone is on 24/7.

Eddie S
19th June 2011, 07:59 PM
Hi Eddie,

I'm not right up with the ID processes of these things, but my SIII box also had a straight up and down gearshift, and zooming in on the image of the one for sale, it looks just like mine.

You would unbolt yours at the adaptor plate, and drop the whole thing out in 1 go.

Not sure what equipment you have at hand, so not sure if you're planning to drop it down beneath the vehicle and then slide it out, or lift it up and take it out through the passenger side door.

I can certainly give you a step by step guide to the lifting it out through the door method.

If you do proceed, snag a new clutch and pressure plate, thrust bearing and spigot, gearbox mounts etc, as well.

I reckon if you're going to pull up your sleeves and get into it, you may as well do it once and be done with it.

Revisiting the gearbox swap later on, due to lack of preparation, or opting to run with old parts, is just madness in my opinion.

Having said that, I reckon you could knock it over pretty quick, with the right gear at hand, and with a bit of a step by step guide to follow.

I can PM you with my phone number if you want, and that way if you ever need a quick answer for something, just call, my phone is on 24/7.
Thanks mate, that would be good of you. I've got a mate that's a truck mechanic and owns a TDI Dizzy he offered to help me pull the G/B out, unfortunately his arthritis has flared up pretty bad so I don't want to bother him. I don't have much equipment at home but I have a good size garage and I can hire/buy what I need. I dont have a military cross member set up and the seatbox bolts look rusted up. What my truck mechanic mate suggested is taking the T/F case off first then the main G/B as to enable us to clear the cross member, not sure about this myself. Then using large ratchet straps and the jack to lower both G/B and T/F case to the ground separately.:confused: I've had limited mechanical experiance on my own but do most of the minor work myself:eek: I've helped my mate with various work in the past and always eager to give it a try. I have'nt heard from the guy selling that new G/B & T/F case on E bay. Beast regards Eddie. P/S love those photos of your truck.

navigation2000
19th June 2011, 10:37 PM
Thanks mate, that would be good of you. I've got a mate that's a truck mechanic and owns a TDI Dizzy he offered to help me pull the G/B out, unfortunately his arthritis has flared up pretty bad so I don't want to bother him. I don't have much equipment at home but I have a good size garage and I can hire/buy what I need. I don't have a military cross member set up and the seat box bolts look rusted up. What my truck mechanic mate suggested is taking the T/F case off first then the main G/B as to enable us to clear the cross member, not sure about this myself. Then using large ratchet straps and the jack to lower both G/B and T/F case to the ground separately.:confused: I've had limited mechanical experience on my own but do most of the minor work myself:eek: I've helped my mate with various work in the past and always eager to give it a try. I haven't heard from the guy selling that new G/B & T/F case on E bay. Beast regards Eddie. P/S love those photos of your truck.

Hi Eddie,

Just my opinion, but I reckon it's easier to lift it out in 1 piece, through the front passenger side door.

If care is taken with it, no damage will be done.

I have the removable cross member, but I still went out through the door with mine.

As for the seat box bolts, they're not very expensive to replace, but there is quite a few of them to undo. They just take time to work through. If they're seized, then snap 'em off, it would be faster, but you may need a few goes to get them all done, as the exertion will be a factor for you.

Splitting the transfer off the box while it's all still in the vehicle will be a messy affair, and if you plan to do that, buy a few boxes of soap and shampoo, and degreaser...and maybe some quality deodorant too, because you're going to get dirty, and so is everything else.

Eddie S
20th June 2011, 09:01 AM
Hi Eddie,

Just my opinion, but I reckon it's easier to lift it out in 1 piece, through the front passenger side door.

If care is taken with it, no damage will be done.

I have the removable cross member, but I still went out through the door with mine.

As for the seat box bolts, they're not very expensive to replace, but there is quite a few of them to undo. They just take time to work through. If they're seized, then snap 'em off, it would be faster, but you may need a few goes to get them all done, as the exertion will be a factor for you.

Splitting the transfer off the box while it's all still in the vehicle will be a messy affair, and if you plan to do that, buy a few boxes of soap and shampoo, and degreaser...and maybe some quality deodorant too, because you're going to get dirty, and so is everything else.
Thanks mate, I'm thinking out through passenger door is the way to go - will keep you posted on my progress. If ok by tou can you PM your phone details so I can call you if need your advice? Once again thanks very much for your help so far and all others who have contributed to helping me understand these S3 beasts.:)

navigation2000
20th June 2011, 09:21 AM
Thanks mate, I'm thinking out through passenger door is the way to go - will keep you posted on my progress. If ok by tou can you PM your phone details so I can call you if need your advice? Once again thanks very much for your help so far and all others who have contributed to helping me understand these S3 beasts.:)

Sure Eddie,

Will PM you now with my phone number.

If you want, and if your mechanic mate is agreeable, then arrange to be with him when you call me, that way I can give you both an overview of what you need to do.

Eddie S
21st June 2011, 07:55 PM
Sure Eddie,

Will PM you now with my phone number.

If you want, and if your mechanic mate is agreeable, then arrange to be with him when you call me, that way I can give you both an overview of what you need to do.
Thanks very much Ross for your info on the G/B Would you, or . anybody else out there know if there is any difference in the length of the input shafts in the G/B between a G/B behind a 4cyl and a 6cyl.? I was chatting to a mechanic mate of mine who mentioned this, I thought the G/Bs are interchangeable only the bell housings were different however this may not be the case. The reason I ask is I spoke to the guy selling that "new G/B & T/F case" and if all looks ok I'm thinking of buying it. I'd hate to buy it only to find the G/B wont fit my bell housing. I don't Know if its 4cyl or 6cyl set up he is selling he's not sure either.Anyone help:confused:

Eddie S
22nd June 2011, 09:03 AM
G' day all, spoke to George from LVS, apparently all the S3 G/Bs input shafts ARE the same length in ALL 4cyl & 6cyl cars and are interchangagle. What differs is th belhousings - 4yl differs to 6cyl. The S3 G/B has theslave cylander mounted on the passenger side in horizontal position while the S2 &2A have them mounted on drivers side in vertical positon. At least that takes some of the mystery out od ID G/B:). I will be checking it out very soon let you all know. Once again thanks for all your responses. Best regards Eddie.:D

Eddie S
26th June 2011, 09:31 PM
Hi all, I had a look at that G/B & T/F case that Ross got me onto ( thanks mate). turned out it was just up the road from my house. I brought a mechanic mate with me. Well I got some good news and bad news. The good news turns out the box is brand new ex army. The bad news is that its a series 2 or 2A set up. The slave cylander is on the drivers side of the G/B, my S3 is on the passenger side. Probably is bash on 1st?:confused: Got some close up pics I'll try to post them. Once again thanks very much for all you'r helpfull responses .

Eddie S
30th June 2011, 08:49 PM
IMG_0078.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=37142&stc=1&d=1309434057)
G' day all, this is a picture of the G/B I looked at. As you can see the slave cylinder bolts on the drivers side. :(

JDNSW
1st July 2011, 06:05 AM
G' day all, this is a picture of the G/B I looked at. As you can see the slave cylinder bolts on the drivers side. :(

This is a Series 2a box (It could be a Series 2 or Series 1, but most likely 2a)

John

Eddie S
1st July 2011, 07:23 PM
This is a Series 2a box (It could be a Series 2 or Series 1, but most likely 2a)

John Thanks John, thats what I thought :( - still learning about these beasts. :eek:

jeebuz
1st July 2011, 11:23 PM
Would a series 3 box fit in a series 2a with the different bell housing? @JDNSW

drifter
2nd July 2011, 07:39 AM
Would a series 3 box fit in a series 2a with the different bell housing? @JDNSW

Yes

I did it with 'Fernando'