Large Caravans and the D4

[mowog]

I have just done a Brisbane to Melbourne return trip with the caravan. lots of people have asked how well a D4 tows. Its a pretty simple answer.. They do a good job. The reason we went to Melbourne was to get the suspension sorted on our caravan. It was built with 3.0T suspension and it should have been built with 3.5T suspension.

On the trip down the caravan towed well as we had always experienced with this caravan and our old Coromal.

Since we were getting the suspension changed I had a look some options. The simple choice and cheaper would have been to use 3.5T Simplicity suspension. You never hear anything bad about simplicity suspension its reliable and tough and gets the job done.

The system I picked was the control rider system. This is a fully independent coil spring and shocker system with 12" off road brakes.

The difference between the Simplicity and the Control Rider is simply stunning. If you are ordering a new large caravan get the Control Rider system, it will cost you more but the difference in how the whole rig performs is worth the dollars.

We towed the caravan back north over a lot of the back roads and bumps that would have thrown the caravan around with the simplicity weren't even noticed with the control rider.

[davman]

Thanks Mowog.
How are you finding the towing with no WDH now you have lot more experience with the D4? How was the ride from this perspective? What speeds were you driving?
BTW What Van do you have?
Cheers

[mowog]

I have a 21' Lotus Trooper its loaded towing weight is around 3200kg.

On the way down to Melb with the Simplicity there was a fair bit of bounce in the van. If you look at the simplicity system its mount is around 500mm at the center of the suspension and roughly in the middle of the van so this seems to set the whole chassis up as a spring. Even with the oscillations caused by this there was never a feeling that I needed a WDH.

The Control Rider supports the chassis over a much greater distance to me it looks to be almost 2 meters this makes the whole chassis less prone to flex on a single point like the simplicity. The coil springs and shocks I am sure play a huge part in the ride quality.

Towing speeds varied with road types and conditions on the way down on bumpy roads I had to slow to around 80-90. On good roads 100 was no issue.

On the way back things were a little different... I could do 100 on roads that I was only able to do 80-90 on winding roads were also much easier to manage as the van wasn't bouncing from corner to corner.

Steering weight / balance and feel didn't change between the suspension systems. I did have initial reservations about this however I think this was down to brand new tyres as the steering feels great now.

What is clear is that the quality of the suspension fitted to the van has a huge impact on the towing experience.

The Discovery has a very sophisticated suspension system why burden it with average suspension on your caravan?

[Sollidisc]

Hi,

I just returned form a weekend away with our new D4 2.7 towing a 20ft Regal fitted with 'austrak' suspension. Essentially austrak is an independent dual axle set up with leaf springs, shocks but limited load sharing. I wasn't worried about the van as i've towed with both a bt50 and Pajero and it has handled very well - at least better than other dual axle vans with non independent load sharing leaf spring suspension I've owned.
It was the lack of WHD that had me worried - the route we took was up the East Coast from Hobart to Swansea - only a couple of hundred k's but hilly, undulating with lots of corners.
I'm not prone to getting all excited about things but the towing performance was - OUTSTANDING, great balance, stable and performance form the engine/trans combination terrific. I don't travel fast as i'm aware of the physics of 2.5 ton hanging off the back bumper (shame other caravanners don't seem to understand this..) but 95 k's just right in fifth.
I can now forgive some of the vehicles little faults - and it didn't break down, drop oil, overheat either - and an average of 14.2
Planning a trip to Cairns in August so am now really looking foward to cruising the 'big island'

[Wirraway]

I'd like to second Sollidisc's comments about the towing performance of the D4 (ours is an SDV6SE). We've been doing a fair bit of towing of our horse float which, with a couple of horses and gear, is probably around the 3 tonne mark and I've been nothing short of totally impressed. Everything that's asked of it is done with ease. Had the vehicle for 4 1/2 mths now and done around 14,000kms without a single problem. Awesome!:)

[Rockylizard]

Hi,

I just returned form a weekend away with our new D4 2.7 towing a 20ft Regal fitted with 'austrak' suspension. Essentially austrak is an independent dual axle set up with leaf springs, shocks but limited load sharing. I wasn't worried about the van as i've towed with both a bt50 and Pajero and it has handled very well - at least better than other dual axle vans with non independent load sharing leaf spring suspension I've owned.
It was the lack of WHD that had me worried - the route we took was up the East Coast from Hobart to Swansea - only a couple of hundred k's but hilly, undulating with lots of corners.
I'm not prone to getting all excited about things but the towing performance was - OUTSTANDING, great balance, stable and performance form the engine/trans combination terrific. I don't travel fast as i'm aware of the physics of 2.5 ton hanging off the back bumper (shame other caravanners don't seem to understand this..) but 95 k's just right in fifth.
I can now forgive some of the vehicles little faults - and it didn't break down, drop oil, overheat either - and an average of 14.2
Planning a trip to Cairns in August so am now really looking foward to cruising the 'big island'
Gday...

I 'only' have a D3 TDV6 SE ;)
But I tow a 23ft 2600kg 'black-top tourer' tandem van with beam axles, leaf springs - that's it, no shocks - nuffin.

Having always towed large vans with WDH and knowing how much more stable the whole rig could be, I, too, was a little apprehensive about not using a WDH.
I have now been travelling for 15 months with the D3 and this van. Done 26,000k with D3 and van has done at least 14,000km.
There is absolutely no difference between having the van connected and not connected - albeit the hills seem to get a bit 'steeper' with the van on. :D
The ride, steering, braking and stability on the road of the vehicle is just great in every way. And the van just follows along trouble-free no matter what road condition I drag it over.
I am SOOOO glad I got the D3 rather than a (shhhhhhhh) Landcruiser :angel:

Cheers and be sorry for those who have yet to experience LR Discovery
John

[TerryO]

Having towed dual beam axle vans previously and now a 2.5 ton outback Jayco with simplicity suspension in my limited experience I'd have to say that Simplicity suspension works extremely well.

By the way I'm not having a shot at your van Mowog as I have heard very good things about Control Rider suspension.

cheers,
Terry

[mowog]

Having towed dual beam axle vans previously and now a 2.5 ton outback Jayco with simplicity suspension in my limited experience I'd have to say that Simplicity suspension works extremely well.

By the way I'm not having a shot at your van Mowog as I have heard very good things about Control Rider suspension.

cheers,
Terry

Thats ok...

I had simplicity on the van and it needed to be changed because it was only 3000kg it should have been built with 3500kg suspension. My van towed very well with the simplicity.

With the simplicity it was a good van to tow.
With the control rider it is an outstanding van to tow.

I suppose it would be very rare for a van to have such a major suspension upgrade so not many people would have a chance for a back to back comparison. The upshot is after this I will never have another van with simplicity or similar suspension. Its not because they are a bad choice it's because I have experienced in a dramatic way what a few extra dollars can do.

I should have added this change over was supported by Lotus Caravans funded the bulk of the cost for this change. The owner of Lotus Caravans also put more funds into the bucket to pay for this.

A 3500kg Control Rider system is around $5500 from G & S Chassis add to that 3 days labour for 2 men. My contribution to this was $2000. That $2000 is less than it would have cost if I ordered it with the build.

[Graeme]

I suspect that longer vans are more stable on the bitumen without load-sharing whereas not-so-long ones on dirt roads with potholes ride better with load-sharing - not really comparing apples with apples.

[Rockylizard]

I suspect that longer vans are more stable on the bitumen without load-sharing whereas not-so-long ones on dirt roads with potholes ride better with load-sharing - not really comparing apples with apples.

Gday...

Not sure of the logic of what you're saying - but that may be me.

The WDH transfers weight from the towball (rear axle) across all the axles of the rig - to front axle of vehicle, rear axle of vehicle and axle/s of the van/trailer. This makes the whole rig (van & tug) more stable - steering,braking, ride etc).
So I would think towing a "not-so-long" trailer on dirt roads (and bitumen roads have potholes/dips/rough too) has nothing to do with weight transfer but all to do with the suspension/load of the "not-so-long" trailer.
D3 (and obviously D4) handle the weight of the trailer extremely well WITHOUT WDH.
Cheers
John

[Graeme]

Sorry, I was referring to load-sharing suspensions.

[TerryO]

My basic understanding is that load sharing suspension comes into its own when towing off road where as non load sharing dual axle independant suspension can have potential issues over undulating terrain.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong...

cheers,
Terry

[p38arover]

The simple choice and cheaper would have been to use 3.5T Simplicity suspension. You never hear anything bad about simplicity suspension its reliable and tough and gets the job done.

I was talking to a chap today whose van has Simplicity Suspension. He says he's had a problem with tyres scrubbing out and, recently, one spring broke just past the eye (the one under the A-arm pivot) and the other end which has the shackle, folded up under the chassis. He's also lost a pivot bolt from the A-arm.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/03/559.jpg

[Pedro_The_Swift]

My basic understanding is that load sharing suspension comes into its own when towing off road where as non load sharing dual axle independant suspension can have potential issues over undulating terrain.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong...

cheers,
Terry

Nothing like resurecting a dead thread hey Ron,,:p

so Terry--
what problems can I expect with a non-load sharing 4 wheel independent set up?:eek:

[TerryO]

You should have no problems Pedro.

In reality non load sharing suspension is potentially only an issue if you intend to load the van up to max weight and do some serious off roading where you are towing on a quite severe undulating track.

Then you could end up in a potential situation with all the weight of the van on first the front wheels with hardly any on the rears and then the opposite with all the weight on the rear tyres.

Load sharing suspension does what it's name infers, so it's near impossible to put all the load on only two tyres with a tandem axle off road van.

You have to be doing some pretty extreme stuff with your van to face any potential issues with overloading of tyres.


Cheers,
Terry

[Pedro_The_Swift]

That makes sense,,
Thanks Terry,,


Hope it all went well last weekend;)

[p38arover]

Nothing like resurecting a dead thread hey Ron,,:p

After speaking with the owner of the Disco, I thought I'd Google it — and what comes up but Mowog's thread. :D

[TerryO]

If you check out dual axle Simplicity suspension it is quite the opposite of single axle Simplicity. The leaf springs are mounted upside down and connected to the chasis in the middle of the spring pack with the axles mounted to the ends of the springs.

Many people, often those that claim an engineering background, will tell you it doesn't work and is rubbish, but personally I have found it to be way better then conventional leaf spring suspension. Sure there is better suspension out there but many van manufacturers don't offer the more expensive options.

I'm more then happy with the Simplicity on our van.

Cheers,
Terry

[But 'n' Ben]

I'm with you Terry. The 'Military' load sharing suspension that Simplicity make, and is the only one used by Bushtracker, has proved its self over, and over again, and as you describe it, is nothing like the photo of another model shown in the recent post.
I was travelling through some very deep, and dried up mud ruts, and was watched by my travelling companion. He stated that the four corners of my Cruiser were going in all directions, while the Van remained level, and steady, with the suspension doing its thing.
I have also found very smooth towing habits on the bitumen.
Regards,
Don.

[TerryO]

Agreed the van tows welll on road as well as off. One really good thing with the Simplicity on the van is if your towing on a narrowish back road at the speed limit and drop the kerb side wheels off the road for any reason the van doesn't jump or bang around like vans with straight axles do.

Cheers,
Terry

[mowog]

After experiencing the same caravan with Simplicity and then with G&S Control Rider I would never look at another caravan with Simplicity suspension.

[TerryO]

After experiencing the same caravan with Simplicity and then with G&S Control Rider I would never look at another caravan with Simplicity suspension.


I'm sure Control Rider suspension is excellent, but didn't Lotus originally put the incorrect load rating Simplicity Suspension on your van in the first place when they built it Mowog? That can't have helped with your towing experience with Simplicity. Having towed our van for a number of thousands of kilometres I find it bloody excellent and I take ours seriously off road for a van of its size.

cheers,
Terry

[Pedro_The_Swift]

I had a quick squizz at the G&R site and that tandem setup is a bit of serious engineering. :eek:
must weigh 500 kgs by itself,,,,:eek:

I couldnt get the Quicktime thingo to work though,, :(

[mowog]

I'm sure Control Rider suspension is excellet, but didn't Lotus originally put the incorrect load rating Simplicity Suspension on your van in the first place when they built it Mowog? That can't have helped with your towing experience with Simplicity. Having towed our van for a number of thousands of kilometres I find it bloody excellent and I take ours seriously off road for a van of its size.

cheers,
Terry

Hi Terry

I did a lot of home work before the G&S was selected. I spoke to the guys that build simplicity and talked about how it travelled with 3 ton simplicity the comment from them was the 3.5 would be stiffer again.

I am not knocking the simplicity here. It is a good system and dose great service on a lot of caravans. But if you had the chance to try both systems on the same caravan you wouldn't pick the simplicity.

If you ever get the chance tow test a similar sized van with any of the good coil / shock independent systems you will be amazed at the difference.