towing economy td5 - ideas needed

[5teve]

Hi Guys

we spent a great weekend down in Augusta this weekend.. 700km round trip and took the boat down for whale watching and fishing...

I have recently done a lot of work to the deefer... new larger intercooler, which has dramatically reduced smoke, egr gone, new cooling system (reduced the temps considerably) resolved leaks in fuel and oil etc etc etc... the deefer runs much better now... and i feel like tombies mild chip is now working properly (been in for a year without the intercooler and has always been a bit smokey)

Now to the boat stats... its about 1.5t on the trailer maybe a little less.. with the canopy up (we tow with it up as its a ball ache to fold down) its about 3-3.25m high x 2.5m wide at its widest. Its sitting on a twin axle trailer. We cant use the rear sloping cover as the press studs were put on the wrong side so it scoops air. it was full of fuel (110l)

Inside the vehicle we maybe had 300kg of stuff plus 2 passengers and 125l of fuel roughly.. tyres are 255/85 km2's at 42psi and the trailer tyres were at 32psi

now the bad bit... economy.. we used almost a full tank (not filled up so dont know exact figures but i would be guessing 120l) there and back, so getting very poor economy we were only plodding between 90-100km/h. We have done faster trips loaded the same (just after chipping) to jurien bay and got 14l / 100k's back... so something is amis.

i have tweaked the wastegate and had no 'driver demand' errors on the way down, but felt it could have boosted a bit more so tweaked again, and encountered only one error on the way back (reset the engine after a break and had no more). I have an auberins egt and a boost gauge (gauge pressure style one) installed, boost shows max normally of around 19.2psi which shouldnt trip the cut fuelling. EGT's under long hard climbs have reached 792deg C but generally sit around 450-500 while towing the above loads

so i have a couple of questions...

Am i expecting too much? if not what should i be expecting?
what happens to the td5 when it overboosts - does it load a 'safe' map.. and could this explain it?
could the map be corrupt or have altered in some way?
could the map just not suit this engine as its always been smokey?


any ideas welcome on this issue please!

Steve

[stig0000]

I avg just over 11 towing my 1t ski boat to and from esk to summerset witch is a hilldrive... stayed on the speed limmet.. i got big chip standed ic... i recon ur maf has packet it in...

[5teve]

The thought has occured to me but all readings seem 'normal'

reading when being pushed hits over 500, tickover is around the 55-60 mark..

What boost is the td5 meant to be running at... i was thinking of resetting it and seeing what effect that has...

Thanks

Steve

[harro]

Steve,
I would be dropping that canopy on long trips.
Heaps of unnecessary drag.

I have a remap and larger intercooler with egr bypassed and no cat.
Removing the static fan from the front of the airbox and cutting away the bend from inside the airbox gave me another 1 to 2 klms to the litre as well as smoother running in the higher rev range.

Cheers,
Paul.

[Benny_IIA]

Hi Guys

we spent a great weekend down in Augusta this weekend.. 700km round trip and took the boat down for whale watching and fishing...

I have recently done a lot of work to the deefer... new larger intercooler, which has dramatically reduced smoke, egr gone, new cooling system (reduced the temps considerably) resolved leaks in fuel and oil etc etc etc... the deefer runs much better now... and i feel like tombies mild chip is now working properly (been in for a year without the intercooler and has always been a bit smokey)

Now to the boat stats... its about 1.5t on the trailer maybe a little less.. with the canopy up (we tow with it up as its a ball ache to fold down) its about 3-3.25m high x 2.5m wide at its widest. Its sitting on a twin axle trailer. We cant use the rear sloping cover as the press studs were put on the wrong side so it scoops air. it was full of fuel (110l)

Inside the vehicle we maybe had 300kg of stuff plus 2 passengers and 125l of fuel roughly.. tyres are 255/85 km2's at 42psi and the trailer tyres were at 32psi

now the bad bit... economy.. we used almost a full tank (not filled up so dont know exact figures but i would be guessing 120l) there and back, so getting very poor economy we were only plodding between 90-100km/h. We have done faster trips loaded the same (just after chipping) to jurien bay and got 14l / 100k's back... so something is amis.

i have tweaked the wastegate and had no 'driver demand' errors on the way down, but felt it could have boosted a bit more so tweaked again, and encountered only one error on the way back (reset the engine after a break and had no more). I have an auberins egt and a boost gauge (gauge pressure style one) installed, boost shows max normally of around 19.2psi which shouldnt trip the cut fuelling. EGT's under long hard climbs have reached 792deg C but generally sit around 450-500 while towing the above loads

so i have a couple of questions...


Am i expecting too much? if not what should i be expecting?
I think 14 fine for what you are towing.


what happens to the td5 when it overboosts - does it load a 'safe' map.. and could this explain it?
No it surge's. Similar sound and feeling to a petrol on the rev limiter.
Also you can get a boost box from BAS or td5 alive that allows boost to go past the over boost limit, ask Tombie he may have some BAS boost box's as he stocks some or there gear.


could the map be corrupt or have altered in some way?
Doubt it, check you MAF like nic said, just unplug it and take it for a drive, if you have a nanocom or similar check what it is reading should be a around 55-60 on idle.


could the map just not suit this engine as its always been smokey?
Most chipped td5 will blow some smoke, what kind of Map is it? The more powerful remaps will blow more smoke.


Also 800 deg is pritty high are you running the standard exhuast? I would look at upgrading it.

There are a few thing that can be done to the exhuast that make a good difference. Remove the centre mufler and Cat.


Also out of matter of interest what inter-cooler are you running?

any ideas welcome on this issue please!


Steve
......

[5teve]

Steve,
I would be dropping that canopy on long trips.
Heaps of unnecessary drag.

I have a remap and larger intercooler with egr bypassed and no cat.
Removing the static fan from the front of the airbox and cutting away the bend from inside the airbox gave me another 1 to 2 klms to the litre as well as smoother running in the higher rev range.

Cheers,
Paul.

I forgot to say i have no middle box on the exhaust too.

may look at the airbox mods... but heard they can hurt lower down...

the canopy isnt designed to be dropped which is my issue.. it cant be folded it has to be removed, which is why it generally gets left up... i know its heaps of drag... but... i have had better economy with the same parameters...

maybe i should try the MAF? and the other airbox sensors... and maybe a filter too!

I am also running a snorkel

Steve

[Psimpson7]

I agree with Ben's comments. I would be happy with 14/100 in your scenario.

Mine doesnt ever get any better than 11.5-12/100 anywhere ever.

[5teve]

.....

Thanks Benny...

The intercooler is from Allard.. pretty fine finned icooler... nice and BIG too...

14l/100k's i could live with 17+ is what i am getting and seems high

i have had it surge in the past and dialled back... nanocom will still register slight overboost and i read somewhere ecu loads default map.. I know of the boost boxes and am considering one at the moment..

MAF figures are about right... but may still try one as i know they can appear ok and actually cause problems..

Mapping is done by Tombie.. only the mild chip... but didnt smoke initially... that i noticed.... then smoked like a bugger mainly on take off when i did notice. Pushed hard it would chuff out in a black stream when towing. Intercooler has mainly solved the smoke.

centre muffler has gone. also got a provent that should reduce oil running back into the inlet. Inlet manifold is clean and sparkly after giving it a good degrease.

792 deg is pre turbo temp.. and hit during a long steep climb in 5th holding about 85-90k's i was surprised it got this high with mild mapping tho. only gets there for a few seconds..

Unloaded the deefer will get egts of 350-400 on the freeway at 100kmh loaded on the flat at 90-100 its between 450-500 maybe a bit more...

Steve

[Benny_IIA]

do you still have a cat? or is yours an early modle

because they cause alot or restriciton in the system.

[Benny_IIA]

I agree with Ben's comments. I would be happy with 14/100 in your scenario.

Mine doesnt ever get any better than 11.5-12/100 anywhere ever.


What fuel map are you running pete?

I remember reading some where you were running a map from td5 inside?

My last defender got around 11ish with the vnt and lots of other goodies.

I have not had a change to drive my 90 yet due to injury, I'm running a new map from Jose at td5 inside which is super impressive from the passengers seat.

[5teve]

do you still have a cat? or is yours an early modle

because they cause alot or restriciton in the system.

I beleive it still has the cat yes... however it always has done... so i know i can get the economy... :D its a late 2002 with internal body mounts :) and the rover diff :(

Steve

[Psimpson7]

What fuel map are you running pete?

I remember reading some where you were running a map from td5 inside?

My last defender got around 11ish with the vnt and lots of other goodies.



Yep I am running the stage 2 map from TD5inside. I also have a stage 2b off road only map. I dont have any intercooler upgrades etc however as I have no room. It goes pretty well now. noticeably quicker than our v8 d2a

The economy has been the same since I bought the car - it has never really got any better than 11.5l/100 since I bought it with 11k miles on the clock.

Sorry Steve. I thought the 14l/100 was with the trailer. 17/100 isn't very good.

Does it perform as it should or has there been any noticeable drop off?

Thinking back when I used to tow my cars about with mine I got about 17/18 mpg which is around the 16l/100km. They were a fair bit heavier that the load you are towing though. Probably 3000kg with the trailer and all the spares/slicks/fuel etc

[CraigE]

Steve,
There has been a bit of this sort of thing with TD5 defenders tossed around the last couple of years.
There seems to be variance in mileage.
A lot of people are quoting 11-12 lp100kms some even 10 lp100kms in TD5 defenders.
The best I have ever had is around 13 lp 100kms and that is without towing and a standard TD5, sometimes up to 15. I replaced the MAF and it did bring it back down to 13s again but that is it.
Towing the van it is around your figures of 16 - 17 l p 100kms and the van is around 1400kgs total loaded, Defender 2 adults, 2 kids, dog, roller drawers with tools, 60 litre engel loaded and normal clothing etc.
I also have a set of rhino aero roof bars with two tubes (water pipe pvc) attached.
My gut feeling is there is something amiss in certain engines, dont know the answer yet.
I do miss my tdi Disvo that used to do 9s not towing and 10s towing a fully loaded camper trailer and load inside.
Even the RRC V8 would match the Defender at present and why I am considering a RR V8 as my next car. Even a F250 returns 17s loaded and towing.
Still not as bad as a lot of cruisers up around 21 loaded and towing.

[5teve]

Yep I am running the stage 2 map from TD5inside. I also have a stage 2b off road only map. I dont have any intercooler upgrades etc however as I have no room. It goes pretty well now. noticeably quicker than our v8 d2a

The economy has been the same since I bought the car - it has never really got any better than 11.5l/100 since I bought it with 11k miles on the clock.

Sorry Steve. I thought the 14l/100 was with the trailer. 17/100 isn't very good.

Does it perform as it should or has there been any noticeable drop off?

Thinking back when I used to tow my cars about with mine I got about 17/18 mpg which is around the 16l/100km. They were a fair bit heavier that the load you are towing though. Probably 3000kg with the trailer and all the spares/slicks/fuel etc

Cant say there has been a noticable drop off... but its not blisteringly quick.. plenty of pull tho.. its a deefer after all... i think the drag factor doesnt help... the issue is it has done the 14 before...

It was getting about 1000k's to around 105l previously but that has gone also now down to around 800... i assumed stuck egr rough cooling system and intercooler clogged wasnt helping...

I was thinking of contacting tombie and seeing if i could go next map up with a bit of tweaking to suit the engine... i may also check the injector codes etc as i made a note of them when i changed the harness.

I'm also pretty set on the MAF as the disco needs one too...


Steve,
There has been a bit of this sort of thing with TD5 defenders tossed around the last couple of years.
There seems to be variance in mileage.
A lot of people are quoting 11-12 lp100kms some even 10 lp100kms in TD5 defenders.
The best I have ever had is around 13 lp 100kms and that is without towing and a standard TD5, sometimes up to 15. I replaced the MAF and it did bring it back down to 13s again but that is it.
Towing the van it is around your figures of 16 - 17 l p 100kms and the van is around 1400kgs total loaded, Defender 2 adults, 2 kids, dog, roller drawers with tools, 60 litre engel loaded and normal clothing etc.
I also have a set of rhino aero roof bars with two tubes (water pipe pvc) attached.
My gut feeling is there is something amiss in certain engines, dont know the answer yet.
I do miss my tdi Disvo that used to do 9s not towing and 10s towing a fully loaded camper trailer and load inside.
Even the RRC V8 would match the Defender at present and why I am considering a RR V8 as my next car. Even a F250 returns 17s loaded and towing.
Still not as bad as a lot of cruisers up around 21 loaded and towing.

Hi Craig... yeah i know they vary quite wildly... i know chipping can make them more economical but never used to struggle getting in the 10's

i am considering reloading the old map and running for a bit with that then changing back to tombies map.. or a stronger one IF i can get hold of him :)

be good if we can get a definitive as to what causes it tho... i know Andy suffered and i think it was his MAF... now its just his foot :D

Steve

[Benny_IIA]

I beleive it still has the cat yes... however it always has done... so i know i can get the economy... :D its a late 2002 with internal body mounts :) and the rover diff :(

Steve


Loss the cat,

either get a dump pipe from an early td5 or if your exhuast shop will cut it out go that way.

Land Rover put the cat to far away from the turbo for it to work properly anyway as the gases are not hot enough by the time they reach the cat.

They get clogged up and cause loss of power and ecc

[Blknight.aus]

clean up your exhaust and up it to 3 inch that will help but depending on your drag factor with the boat 14/100 is about normal with some serious pedantism and taking it a bit easier you could get it down to 11-12/100 but youve then got to weigh up the cost of the fuel VS the cost of the extra time it takes you to get there.

you dont want to push the EGT past 750.

[stig0000]

wow 13/100,, id cry if mine was doing that, even when i had the 33s on all the time i could still easy get 10/100,

now im back to roadys il easy get into the 9s,

last fraser trip used 120L of fuel and did just over 850kms, so about 14.5/100

i drive buy my boost,,, if im just driving around i never go over 15psi,,, and normaly chang gears at 10,, on the hgihway its pulling about 9-12psi,, depends how the rd is and thats at 100kph,, use about 14psi at 110,

my boost is set at 21.5 psi,, borderline over boost limmit

[5teve]

Loss the cat,

either get a dump pipe from an early td5 or if your exhuast shop will cut it out go that way.

Land Rover put the cat to far away from the turbo for it to work properly anyway as the gases are not hot enough by the time they reach the cat.

They get clogged up and cause loss of power and ecc

Would if i could but i'm not gonna be allowed to spend it at the mo... will get pricing tho!


clean up your exhaust and up it to 3 inch that will help but depending on your drag factor with the boat 14/100 is about normal with some serious pedantism and taking it a bit easier you could get it down to 11-12/100 but youve then got to weigh up the cost of the fuel VS the cost of the extra time it takes you to get there.

you dont want to push the EGT past 750.

As i said... i used to get 14.. this was 17 with much engine improvements over when i got the 14... something has gone wrong over the last 6 months.. and i havent replaced whatever it was...

EGT's are too high then? that at least points to some overfuelling do you think? as i said.. it was up a steep long hill and i could control them to around the 750... but maintaining speed (around 80-85) it would hit the 792.. my foot wasnt flat either...

EGT probe is where the small casting riser flat is on the top of the manifold where each branch comes in. I drilled the centre of it and flattened it of, used copper washers etc to seal.


wow 13/100,, id cry if mine was doing that, even when i had the 33s on all the time i could still easy get 10/100,

now im back to roadys il easy get into the 9s,

last fraser trip used 120L of fuel and did just over 850kms, so about 14.5/100

i drive buy my boost,,, if im just driving around i never go over 15psi,,, and normaly chang gears at 10,, on the hgihway its pulling about 9-12psi,, depends how the rd is and thats at 100kph,, use about 14psi at 110,

my boost is set at 21.5 psi,, borderline over boost limmit

Mine used to be about 10.5 driving 'steadily' I wouldnt be able to drive by my boost if i used your figures... it wouldnt go anywhere! its now around 12.5l/100ks unloaded...

freeway it sits around 12-15 when not towing at 100k's

Boost cuts out around the 19.2-19.5 mark.. or thats the max i see on the nanocom and auberins gauge. anything over 20 will see an error logged.

Thanks for all the replies so far guys..

Steve

[Blknight.aus]

I suspect there may be some driver error involved here....

pushing your egt constantly past 650 is not good, its not fatal but youre basically blowing energy out the exhaust.

use your lower gears and let the engine spin a bit. see how that goes for you.

I used to be able to keep big red under 10's unloaded about 12-14 with up to 2t in a tandem trailer on the back and that was with a full blown tombie insanity chipset and no other mods...

search the proton energy pill thread.

[stig0000]

I cant say what tune i hav but id guess its up were in the power... as iv raced a few chiped cars and see them in my mirrors... i keep up with trafic as well intown with them boost levels... and mine has very min smoke... only smoke i get is when towing just b4 the boost comes on... then clears out...

[Tombie]

Guys.... You'll get me soon...

I'm having issues with Telstra and have a very restrictive internet connection at the moment which is iPhone hotspot.. ;)

Should be back online around mid next week.

[Benny_IIA]

Would if i could but i'm not gonna be allowed to spend it at the mo... will get pricing tho!



As i said... i used to get 14.. this was 17 with much engine improvements over when i got the 14... something has gone wrong over the last 6 months.. and i havent replaced whatever it was...

EGT's are too high then? that at least points to some overfuelling do you think? as i said.. it was up a steep long hill and i could control them to around the 750... but maintaining speed (around 80-85) it would hit the 792.. my foot wasnt flat either...

EGT probe is where the small casting riser flat is on the top of the manifold where each branch comes in. I drilled the centre of it and flattened it of, used copper washers etc to seal.



Mine used to be about 10.5 driving 'steadily' I wouldnt be able to drive by my boost if i used your figures... it wouldnt go anywhere! its now around 12.5l/100ks unloaded...

freeway it sits around 12-15 when not towing at 100k's

Boost cuts out around the 19.2-19.5 mark.. or thats the max i see on the nanocom and auberins gauge. anything over 20 will see an error logged.

Thanks for all the replies so far guys..

Steve


an early modle dump pipe should be cheap,

If you where in brisbane I have one sitting around

[5teve]

Guys.... You'll get me soon...

I'm having issues with Telstra and have a very restrictive internet connection at the moment which is iPhone hotspot.. ;)

Should be back online around mid next week.

Thanks Mike... i'll be in touch via PM probably... once telsta have finshed irritating you!


an early modle dump pipe should be cheap,

If you where in brisbane I have one sitting around

I'll be in Brissie in August for a day or 2... dont think its ideal carry on luggage or luggage for a whitsunday trip tho :D

what bit of pipe is it? one from the turbo down to middle pipe?

Thanks

Steve

[Benny_IIA]

Thanks Mike... i'll be in touch via PM probably... once telsta have finshed irritating you!



I'll be in Brissie in August for a day or 2... dont think its ideal carry on luggage or luggage for a whitsunday trip tho :D

what bit of pipe is it? one from the turbo down to middle pipe?

Thanks

Steve

yes from the turbo to the middle pipe.

i don't see a problem with it as carry on luggage..

Its shaped like a very large walking stick.:D

[5teve]

I'll see what i can find ... thanks for the info tho...

I have filled up this morning and i only squeezed in 110L so we averaged a measly 16.4L/100km which is slightly better but still not right. Fuel gauge is very random as that was showing under the red... been there before and had 20+L left and also been there before and had 5L left....

I'll wait to see what Mike can do with his tune... or load a hotter tune and see how it reacts....

Meantime i'll look for a new MAF and dump pipe, maybe load the original map, and back the boost off a bit as i am struggling like hell to move without 14+psi or maintain speed without 12+ psi..

Steve

[PAT303]

You haven't got a blockage in the exhaust have you?. Pat

[5teve]

seems to flow ok but only have the back box and the cat... from whats been said the cat IS a blockage full stop!

with a blockage i wouldnt be able to generate boost tho would i?

seems i am creating too much boost with not enough grunt....

Steve

[stig0000]

What yr is your defender... maby ur egr throtle is stuck closed abit... so its still making boost but no go... allso maby you have a air leak in the chrged air pipes

Maby a cloged up IC aswell...

When mine poped a hose the smoke out the back was unreal... so i think its loosing boost out some were

[Benny_IIA]

What yr is your defender... maby ur egr throtle is stuck closed abit... so its still making boost but no go... allso maby you have a air leak in the chrged air pipes

Maby a cloged up IC aswell...

When mine poped a hose the smoke out the back was unreal... so i think its loosing boost out some were

should be able to hear a boost leak,

and see it on a gauge or nanocom.

may have a delaminated IC pipe, i think the cat will be blocked.

[5teve]

Hi Stig

Its a late 2002,

When i say no go... its not super quick... but still pulls quicker than a 3l patrol. But i seem to be using heaps of boost to do it... and boost builds quickly..

i cant really drive it as described earlier as i would be worse than most grandads...

As i also mentioned earlier.. i have done heaps of work to it. New large intercooler, egr fell off, middle box fell off, new cooling system etc etc etc... all in the last month. all silicon hoses nice and tight...

Steve

[5teve]

Hi Guys

Just started some testing... first thing.. disconnect the MAF

No noticeable difference in performance except..

It seems to boost even quicker, and it surges once its up at the 19-20psi mark on the gauge.. so the overboost protection is kicking in i think.. however it logs no faults in the ECU once its surged a bit. Whereas when the MAF was connected i had no surge and errors logged.

just under 100k/h down the flat section of the freeway i was running 10.5psi boost and 350-360deg C will check on the way home tomorrow and see what it is when running with the MAF again.

I'll then test the original map and see how it goes.. and then reload Tombies mild map and see what it gets us!

Am making enquiries about a catless front pipe.. geez they are expensive over here.. so am looking for a used one..

Thanks

Steve

[joybells]

I have only just purchsed a 2001 td5 automatic.We love it, had a 1989 Defender many years ago and also loved it.TD5 uses about 10 litres per 100 kms, same as the 4BD1 did in the Defender.The TD5 performance seems ok but I wonder about engine vibration at low end revs on quiet acceleration.Not having any experience at all with a 5 cylinder engine, I would appreciate any comments. The auto is beautiful, the car is really good to drive, holds the road like its on rails, very comfortable but seems to hit pretty hard on decent ruts. Any comments on shocks, srpings etc most welcome. Enjoy reading the posts, still trying to navigate around site. Thanks.

[harro]

Hi Guys

Just started some testing... first thing.. disconnect the MAF

No noticeable difference in performance except..

It seems to boost even quicker, and it surges once its up at the 19-20psi mark on the gauge.. so the overboost protection is kicking in i think.. however it logs no faults in the ECU once its surged a bit. Whereas when the MAF was connected i had no surge and errors logged.

just under 100k/h down the flat section of the freeway i was running 10.5psi boost and 350-360deg C will check on the way home tomorrow and see what it is when running with the MAF again.

I'll then test the original map and see how it goes.. and then reload Tombies mild map and see what it gets us!

Am making enquiries about a catless front pipe.. geez they are expensive over here.. so am looking for a used one..

Thanks

Steve

Steve,
I think the early D2s with no cat have the pipe you are after.
Just need to find someone wrecking one:wasntme:
Have done a lot of research on the Maf sensor and with it disconnected the default value appears to be 400 kg/h so the engine will overfuel up to around 2500 to 3000 rpm and then taper off to underfuelling which is why most people find there vehicle runs better down low with Maf disconnected.
This will effect fuel economy!
Also even with a modified fuel map this under fuelling at higher revs is still an issue.
So contrary to some beliefs the Maf is quite important for the A/F ratio.

Good luck in your search for better economy:BigThumb:


Cheers,
Paul.

[George130]

Mine is pre cats but when I used to track the fuel I averaged 11.5 and under 13 when towing fully loaded car trailers.
My thing's running a bruce davis super insanity custom chip, intercooler and almost everything else.

[5teve]

Thanks George...

And therin lies my issue.. i know it can do better... it used to do better.. but now doesnt, and didnt for a while before i added the intercooler etc. I hoped that would solve the issue..

Maybe i need a tombie super insanity chip instead of the mild one i have!

yesterday towing the boat to the city, on the flat sections to maintain around 96kmh i was using 15psi boost and egt around the 530-560 mark. I need very very little pedal to get to 18-19psi boost... and i cant understand why! maybe i just have a super effecient turbo?

From Daves post about proton energy pill... he was towing a rangie up a hill at 15psi...with standard intercooler... for me to go up a slight incline with the boat i'm up at 18-19psi to maintain speed.. and egt's rise!

I havent yet loaded the old map onto the ecu.. but will do soon and just compare how it runs.. something must have gone wrong and it be overfuelling...

If it was overfuelling, would i be getting better performance or does the additional fuel need to be 'added' in a certain way?

Default map at least would determine if the engine has a tendancy to run high boost and hot... as i'm sure not all td5's are the same..

Steve

[George130]

Thanks George...

And therin lies my issue.. i know it can do better... it used to do better.. but now doesnt, and didnt for a while before i added the intercooler etc. I hoped that would solve the issue..

Maybe i need a tombie super insanity chip instead of the mild one i have!

yesterday towing the boat to the city, on the flat sections to maintain around 96kmh i was using 15psi boost and egt around the 530-560 mark. I need very very little pedal to get to 18-19psi boost... and i cant understand why! maybe i just have a super effecient turbo?

From Daves post about proton energy pill... he was towing a rangie up a hill at 15psi...with standard intercooler... for me to go up a slight incline with the boat i'm up at 18-19psi to maintain speed.. and egt's rise!

I havent yet loaded the old map onto the ecu.. but will do soon and just compare how it runs.. something must have gone wrong and it be overfuelling...

If it was overfuelling, would i be getting better performance or does the additional fuel need to be 'added' in a certain way?

Default map at least would determine if the engine has a tendancy to run high boost and hot... as i'm sure not all td5's are the same..

Steve

Over fueling will up your temps for no gain and can cause more damage. One thing to remember when going overboard with the power upgrades is it takes less for things to go wrong. My beast was running at stupidly insane levels that were not offered as a mod chip.

I would talk to tombie quick smart before it becomes a nightmare. Amongst the wreckage of my engine it's errors included overfueling on one injector, overboost errors and a total mechanical failure with engine fire. she ran on all fluids until there was non left. Fire was caused by turbo temps so high the wast gate melted.

[5teve]

Thanks george..

I followed your dramas... i am keeping an eye on errors, boost and egts so not pushing her too hard... the nanocom is valuble in this instance... and its logging no errors.. (wierd as i know its overboosting)

regarding my egts they are being measured pre turbo at the branch meeting point... hence they are pretty high...

Day to day running is less than 400.. so not too hot.. but probably hotter than it should be..

I'm intending to talk to tombie.. but i know he is suffering telecoms wise...

Steve

[Tombie]

Thanks george..

I followed your dramas... i am keeping an eye on errors, boost and egts so not pushing her too hard... the nanocom is valuble in this instance... and its logging no errors.. (wierd as i know its overboosting)

regarding my egts they are being measured pre turbo at the branch meeting point... hence they are pretty high...

Day to day running is less than 400.. so not too hot.. but probably hotter than it should be..

I'm intending to talk to tombie.. but i know he is suffering telecoms wise...

Steve

Steve - Telecoms should be operational at home Thursday :o

400 isnt too high, I roll around town at about 350-400 depending on throttle usage... Towing on hills is around 580-650 on mine.

Dont ever overload the engine, use a lower gear and bring the revs up on hills - more rpm - more air - less heat... Labouring in 5th isnt good under big loads...

The Cat equipped TD5s tend to get worse with age, as the Cat soots up and exhaust flow suffers....

Do some simple checks like the sensor on the inlet manifold (drivers side) - These get dirty (or go faulty) and give poor readings to the ECU and use more fuel... The other culprit is the AAP sensor in the Airbox - Take a look at the readings and see if its in spec :)

I have a few other maps, but only in Rovacom format unfortunately at this stage.. I'll see what I can do on my break (I finish my swing Wednesday night)

[5teve]

Thanks Mike I was planning on Pm'ing you later once your systems were back on line, its not like i am desperate for a fix.. it runs :)

My towing figures are far too high then for the EGT?

I would be guessing my boost comes up too quick too... which wouldnt indicate a blocked cat from what i can gather...

I plan on a new MAF anyway... and i will check the other sensors.. the inlet manifold one is clean as... as i removed the whole thing (manifold included) and cleaned the sensor and had the inside of the manifold cleaned. will double check to see if the sensors are reading something sensible tho.

Labouring or spinning doesnt seem to make much difference.. it still climbs high...

I know the map was good as it ran well for a while... then economy dropped off and the smoke increased at low revs.. intercooler has got rid of that issue but economy wont come back... so something must have failed or gone out of spec...

My main concerns are:-

boost.. comes on very quick and strong to 19+psi with barely any pedal. wastegate set so it doesnt error out (in theory).

In slight overboost i dont feel a stutter with the MAF connected and no error is logged.. with MAF disconnected i get the overboost stutter.

EGT when towing pushing 800deg i feel is the limit.. which would be great if i was running an insane chip.. but its just the mild one.. and foot was not to the floor Boost was running 18ish psi

economy - i know i can get sub 14 on a hillier route done previously... but now 16-17 seems normal and i would be guessing around 13 for non towing.

Thanks

Steve

[5teve]

HI Guys

Quick question relating to this...

Is the wastegate meant to open progressively or just suddenly open? just wondering if i may have a slightly sticky wastegate that remains shut until it gets sufficient pressure?

as i am not too sure on the detailed workings of these things your input would be appreciated!

Thanks

Steve

[Benny_IIA]

its spring loaded so i guess it opens slowly not not 100% sure