When words are pronounced differently...

[p38arover]

.... from how they are written.

I saw this comment on the Whirlpool fourm and nearly spat my coffee all over my keyboard. :Rolling:


Chevrolet is somewhat silly due to it commonly being not spoken as it is written, dunno why so many people pronounce 'let' as 'lay' but it lacks sense.

It was in a thread referring to a suggestion in the USA that the Holden name be dropped and replaced with Chevrolet. Obviously the writer hadn't heard of the Chevrolet brothers (who emigrated from Switzerland to the USA) and how their name was pronounced.

[Slunnie]

You dont want to know what trouble I got into when asked at school to do a geography case study on Phu.ket. :no2:

[95 Disco]

I like the soft-top/no top version ... the Chevrolet Cabriolet

... sometimes known as the Chevrolett Cabriolett.

1931, I think; but Ron will remember :angel:

Grant

[p38arover]

1931, I think; but Ron will remember :angel:

Mongrel! :mad:






:D

[MickS]

Mongrel! :mad:






:D

The Chevrolette Mongrel?????? :D

[p38arover]

I know people look at my wife and I strangely (don't go there.....) when we are in the mall and say we are going to "Tarjay".

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/06/1142.jpg

[MickS]

I know people look at my wife and I strangely (don't go there.....) when were are in the mall and say we are going to "Tarjay".

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/06/1142.jpg

"....when were are (we're or we are) in the mall and say we are going to "Tarjay".












:p

[p38arover]

Touché :D

[JDNSW]

The problem of course is that not only are words imported from other languages (e.g. Chevrolet), but pronunciation changes - not only over time, but between areas. And spelling changes much more slowly than does pronunciation.

A couple of examples that may be new to some - from southern USA bouy is pronounced booee and route is pronounced rout.

Over the last few days I have been reading Chaucer and also the documents about the founding of the colony of Virginia in the early 17th century - only when you see this sort of thing do you realise how much pronunciation (and meaning) of words has changed over time.

John

[zulu Delta 534]

I find it quite odd that the French don't have their own words for "concierge" and "entrepreneur", but use our English words instead!
Regards
Glen

[p38arover]

We occasionally watch the UK TV programme Customs, Commentary for the Australian version is done by an Aussie (dunno who) but I notice he pronounces lieutenant as "loo-tenant" not "lef-tenant" - the effect of watching too much American TV?

[Hymie]

Navy has Loo-tennants
Army has Lef-tennants

[p38arover]

Navy has Loo-tennants
Army has Lef-tennants

Ahh. Then would explain his pronunciation. He was referring to an officer on an RN ship. Thanks for that.

I was in the RAAF Air Training Corps (air cadets) - we didn't have either. :D

[Chucaro]

I remember our third day in Australia (1969), we rented a unit and my wife and I whent to a shop and asked for 2 queen size sheets.
Of course, we said **** instead of sheet and the whomen gave us a funny look.
Bloody english language :D

[zulu Delta 534]

Lieutenant is actually correctly pronounced "lootenant" in that the roots are "lieu" (in place of *) and tenant (to do*).
I have often questioned where the army and common "leftenant" pronunciation comes from.
*rough translations
(I am pretty sure Ron, you would have come across a Flight Lieutenant in the Air Cadets somewhere, sometime and have had to throw him a boxer.)

Who is actually more correct in the pronunciation of what we call "aluminium" as the Yanks don't seem to have the second "i" in the word, and I find in a lot of cases the Americans speak a more precise and an older English version of the language than we do. Possibly because they were settled earlier.
The case of the missing "u" in honour, favour etc., in the Oxford English dictionary shows up as being the correct "olde English" spelling for the words and only changed relatively recently. (in the last couple of hundred years or so!)
Controversy or contaversy, Maroon or marone - in actual fact in this case the word, being an import, the two "o"s should be pronounced as an elongated "o" rather than "oo" as in balloon, which tends to go against all football and news commentators beliefs.
(I just noticed that when I typed contraversy my spell checker highlighted it as an error!)
Regards
Glen

[Pedro_The_Swift]

are you trying to upstage Ron, Glen?:angel::wasntme:

[incisor]

are you trying to upstage Ron, Glen?:angel::wasntme:
a clash of the tightens ?

[vnx205]

are you trying to upstage Ron, Glen?:angel::wasntme:

I've tried a few times, but have discovered it can't be done. :D

[isuzurover]

I was recently in Louisville kentucky. The range of pronunciations is so long they sell a t-shirt.

Most people in the US pronounce it :Looeyvill

Locals pronounce it: Luhvul, Looavul, or L'vul

And some others: Looavill or Loouvill

[Redback]

Lieutenant is actually correctly pronounced "lootenant" in that the roots are "lieu" (in place of *) and tenant (to do*).
I have often questioned where the army and common "leftenant" pronunciation comes from.
*rough translations
(I am pretty sure Ron, you would have come across a Flight Lieutenant in the Air Cadets somewhere, sometime and have had to throw him a boxer.)

Who is actually more correct in the pronunciation of what we call "aluminium" as the Yanks don't seem to have the second "i" in the word, and I find in a lot of cases the Americans speak a more precise and an older English version of the language than we do. Possibly because they were settled earlier.
The case of the missing "u" in honour, favour etc., in the Oxford English dictionary shows up as being the correct "olde English" spelling for the words and only changed relatively recently. (in the last couple of hundred years or so!)
Controversy or contaversy, Maroon or marone - in actual fact in this case the word, being an import, the two "o"s should be pronounced as an elongated "o" rather than "oo" as in balloon, which tends to go against all football and news commentators beliefs.
(I just noticed that when I typed contraversy my spell checker highlighted it as an error!)
Regards
Glen

I think I read somewhere it was changed by a member of the Royal family (King or Queen at the time in Britain) in the 1500s.

This is what I found

The earlier history of the pronunciation is unclear; Middle English spellings suggest that the /l(j)uː-/ and /lɛf-/ pronunciations existed even then. The rare old french variant spelling luef for Modern French lieu ('place') supports the suggestion that a final [w] of the Old French word was in certain environments perceived as an [f].

Baz.

[strangy]

...funny also how word meanings change in very short order as some have said.

Gay... once was happy and joyful.:angel:

One of the most irritating mispronunciations for me is when someone "arxs" a question rather than asks.

cheers

[p38arover]

Lieutenant is actually correctly pronounced "lootenant" in that the roots are "lieu" (in place of *) and tenant (to do*).
I have often questioned where the army and common "leftenant" pronunciation comes from.
*rough translations

I have previously done a search on the 'Net and it's unclear why there are two versions - one thought is that the English didn't like the French from where it came. I also wondered, like you, why it wasn't pronounced as we pronounce "lieu".


(I am pretty sure Ron, you would have come across a Flight Lieutenant in the Air Cadets somewhere, sometime and have had to throw him a boxer.)

OOPS! I forgot about them. :(


Who is actually more correct in the pronunciation of what we call "aluminium" as the Yanks don't seem to have the second "i" in the word,

I recall reading that the original name for the element was as the US spell it but the British added an "i" to fit with the naming of other elements.

Wait:


(British scientist, Humphrey) Davy [who discovered it] settled on aluminum by the time he published his 1812 book Chemical Philosophy: "This substance appears to contain a peculiar metal, but as yet Aluminum has not been obtained in a perfectly free state, though alloys of it with other metalline substances have been procured sufficiently distinct to indicate the probable nature of alumina."[62] But the same year, an anonymous contributor to the Quarterly Review, a British political-literary journal, in a review of Davy's book, objected to aluminum and proposed the name aluminium, "for so we shall take the liberty of writing the word, in preference to aluminum, which has a less classical sound."[63]

My emphasis :D


and I find in a lot of cases the Americans speak a more precise and an older English version of the language than we do. Possibly because they were settled earlier.

They have even stayed with fluid measures dating back to the Mayflower.

A lot of the US spelling goes back to Webster who created the commonly available dictionary. He simplified the spelling and his dictionary was produced in huge numbers.

[zulu Delta 534]

are you trying to upstage Ron, Glen?:angel::wasntme:

Not in any way Pedro, I wouldn't be game!
I share a similar type of interest with Ron in the usage of the English language with all its nuances (another one the French don't have a word for) and fully appreciate his input on the subject.
I tend to find it mildly amusing that we as a race train for years to understand the complexities of a mechanical or an electrical device, but on the other hand take our language (which is arguably our most treasured and by far, most often used commodity) for granted and abuse it.
As an aside, One of my favourite examples of English oddities is the one of the shop owner correcting the sign writer who has written "Fish, and, Chips" by stating;
"There should be no commas between Fish and and, and and and chips"

We pronounce Bombadier as "bom-bad-ear" but in Canada (part french) they call it "bombarja"

Also on the subject slightly, "ghoti" is an interesting collection of letters.
if we take the "gh" out of "enough"
and the "o" out of "women"
the "ti" out of "motion"
do we actually end up with a posh way of spelling "fish"

Regards
Glen

[p38arover]

...funny also how word meanings change in very short order as some have said.

Gay... once was happy and joyful.:angel:

I still recall hearing of a Rootes Group advert from the 50s for the Gaylook Minx - "As gay as a Mardi Gras"

The Gaylook referred to the two-tone paintwork.

[bob10]

The RAN followed the RN , and other Commonwealth navies, in pronouncing it " lef" tenant, usually shortened to "le" tenat when piping over the main broadcast system. However, when our crews spent some time in the USA, awaiting the completion of the DDG's [PERTH, HOBART ,BRISBANE ] "loo' tenant was common.Upon the return to the UK of the RN from singapore in the late 60's, and our closer ties with the USN , especially RIMPAC exercises in the Hawaiin area, more American phrases became common.However, officially, 'lef" tenant is the RAN's prononciation, and woe betide any hapless sailor who calls Jimmy the One, The First "Loo" tenant. Bob
I have to add I enjoy listening to Professor Roly Sussex on the wireless, he states the English Language is constantly evolving, and by so doing keeps itself vibrant and relevant in todays society.

[JamesH]

Place names and surnames in the UK can be fun. They love tripping you up;

Featherstonehaugh - Fanshaw

Woolfhardisworthy - Woolsey

[p38arover]

Cholmondeley = Chumley

[clubagreenie]

Also on the subject slightly, "ghoti" is an interesting collection of letters.
if we take the "gh" out of "enough"
and the "o" out of "women"
the "ti" out of "motion"
do we actually end up with a posh way of spelling "fish"


So it's enouwmenmoon for fish?

[bob10]

Not to mention the Welsh... Lianfairpwillgwyngyllgogcrychwyrndrobwllllantysili ogogogoch..., a village on the island of Anglesey :eek: Bob

[Treads]

I've always preferred 'center' over 'centre' :)

[abaddonxi]

February.
Wednesday.
Library.
Prostate.

[numpty]

Why "coop" when it is "coupe" (coopay):o

And I hate "loose" when it should be "lose":mad:

[isuzutoo-eh]

'Politician' - usually pronounced 'barstard' or an eight letter conjunction referring to one's posterior.

[land864]

Anyone else find it irritating when the younger set ( particularly TV Presenters) prounounce important , impordant :mad:

[Pedro_The_Swift]

a clash of the tightens ?

you pick which is which---:eek:

[wrinklearthur]

I'm annoyed with people that pronounce th as f .

Cheers Arthur

[d@rk51d3]

I'm annoyed with people that pronounce th as f .

Cheers Arthur

Sorry Arfur. :(

[Barefoot Dave]

GMH Monaro, Monaro NSW


In engineering/ jobbing, 2 (qty) off? Should be 'of' ,as in "2 of them"?
Always wondered
Dave.

[kenleyfred]

Gay... once was happy and joyful.:angel:



cheers[/QUOTE]

Then she met and married me.

Guess my wife's name.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I love the pronunciation of the Spanish city, Barcelona.

Modern native Spanish (Castilian) speakers pronounce the name with a lisp "Barth-el-ona" while most colonial Spanish speakers, particularly Latin-Americans pronounce the name Bar-cel-ona. The difference is attributed to one of the post-colonial era Castilian Kings having a cleft lip (hare-lip) and so spoke with a lisp. The result on the Iberian Peninsula was a deference to the King and the Kings Spanish took on the lisp-like phonology.

The same didn't happen in the remote colonies and hence the modern differences.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

you pick which is which---:eek:Whiches float!

If... she.. weighs the same as a duck, she's made of wood. And therefore. A which.

[isuzurover]

The difference is attributed to one of the post-colonial era Castilian Kings having a cleft lip (hare-lip) and so spoke with a lisp. The result on the Iberian Peninsula was a deference to the King and the Kings Spanish took on the lisp-like phonology.


Likely incorrectly attributed...



Castilian lisp

A persistent urban legend claims that the prevalence of the sound /θ/ in Spanish can be traced back to a Spanish king who spoke with a lisp, and whose pronunciation spread by prestige borrowing to the rest of the population. This myth has been discredited by scholars for lack of evidence.[5] Lundeberg (1947) traces the origins of the legend back to a chronicle of López de Ayala stating that Pedro of Castile "lisped a little" ("ceceaba un poco"). The timeline is totally incorrect, however: Pedro reigned in the 14th century, but the sound /θ/ only began to develop in the 16th century (see below). Moreover, it is clear that a true lisp would not give rise to the systematic distinction between /s/ and /θ/ that characterizes Standard Peninsular pronunciation. For example, a lisp would lead one to pronounce both siento "I feel" and ciento "hundred" the same (as [θjento]), whereas in Standard Peninsular Spanish they are pronounced [sjento] and [θjento], respectively.

Nevertheless, for speakers of seseo varieties of Spanish, where /θ/ is absent, and for people who are more familiar with seseo pronunciation (e.g., learners of Spanish in North America), the use of /θ/ by Peninsular speakers is striking, and does indeed give an impression of "lispiness". The misnomer "Castilian lisp" is used occasionally to refer to this aspect of Peninsular pronunciation (in both distinción and ceceo varieties).

[zulu Delta 534]

Negotiate.
YouTube - ‪The Negotiate Song | Yes We Canberra! | Wednesdays, 9.45pm ABC1‬‏
Regards
Glen

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Likely incorrectly attributed...Forget the academics, the urban myth is much more interesting! :D

[land864]

Pedro /Diana

That one is definately a Witch.

She has me under her spell already:)

I once went out with a girl who I am sure was a witch.

We were driving along , she put her hand on my knee and I turned into a motel :eek:

[Redback]

Hey ron,

While at the Ore mine in Weipa, the guide was speeking about the processes of creating Aluminium and mentioned that Aluminum was the last process before it became Aluminium:eek:

Baz.

[Killer]

In engineering/ jobbing, 2 (qty) off? Should be 'of' ,as in "2 of them"?
Always wondered
Dave.


But if you build one of something it is a one off.

Cheers, Mick.

[MEANZ06]

Hmmmm... whats going on in this thread?... :angel:

ive been here almost a year and still struggle with some of the verbage... :D its okay though, i like the challenge... :)

[MickS]

I want to shake hands with the person who decided LISP would be have an S in it. :cool:

[abaddonxi]

Quote:
Originally Posted by wikipedia
Castilian lisp

A persistent urban legend claims that the prevalence of the sound /θ/ in Spanish can be traced back to a Spanish king who spoke with a lisp, and whose pronunciation spread by prestige borrowing to the rest of the population. This myth has been discredited by scholars for lack of evidence.[5] Lundeberg (1947) traces the origins of the legend back to a chronicle of López de Ayala stating that Pedro of Castile "lisped a little" ("ceceaba un poco"). The timeline is totally incorrect, however: Pedro reigned in the 14th century, but the sound /θ/ only began to develop in the 16th century (see below). Moreover, it is clear that a true lisp would not give rise to the systematic distinction between /s/ and /θ/ that characterizes Standard Peninsular pronunciation. For example, a lisp would lead one to pronounce both siento "I feel" and ciento "hundred" the same (as [θjento]), whereas in Standard Peninsular Spanish they are pronounced [sjento] and [θjento], respectively.

Nevertheless, for speakers of seseo varieties of Spanish, where /θ/ is absent, and for people who are more familiar with seseo pronunciation (e.g., learners of Spanish in North America), the use of /θ/ by Peninsular speakers is striking, and does indeed give an impression of "lispiness". The misnomer "Castilian lisp" is used occasionally to refer to this aspect of Peninsular pronunciation (in both distinción and ceceo varieties).


Probably not the same Pedro.

Maybe it was his dad, Pedro the Slow.:D

[bob10]

But if you build one of something it is a one off.

Cheers, Mick.
Correct, one off the plan , two off, etc. Bob

[p38arover]

you pick which is which---:eek:

You couldn't tighten those jeans much more than they are already,

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[Hymie]

Who is actually more correct in the pronunciation of what we call "aluminium" as the Yanks don't seem to have the second "i" in the word, and I find in a lot of cases the Americans speak a more precise and an older English version of the language than we do. Possibly because they were settled earlier.
The case of the missing "u" in honour, favour etc., in the Oxford English dictionary shows up as being the correct "olde English" spelling for the words and only changed relatively recently. (in the last couple of hundred years or so!)
Controversy or contaversy, Maroon or marone - in actual fact in this case the word, being an import, the two "o"s should be pronounced as an elongated "o" rather than "oo" as in balloon, which tends to go against all football and news commentators beliefs.
(I just noticed that when I typed contraversy my spell checker highlighted it as an error!)
Regards
Glen



I think you will find it was Noah Webster who modified English spelling to what is now American spelling.

Webster's Dictionary - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Webster_27s_Dictionary_advertisment_-_1888_-_Project_Gutenberg_eText_13641.png" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d6/Webster_27s_Dictionary_advertisment_-_1888_-_Project_Gutenberg_eText_13641.png/400px-Webster_27s_Dictionary_advertisment_-_1888_-_Project_Gutenberg_eText_13641.png"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/d/d6/Webster_27s_Dictionary_advertisment_-_1888_-_Project_Gutenberg_eText_13641.png/400px-Webster_27s_Dictionary_advertisment_-_1888_-_Project_Gutenberg_eText_13641.png

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Probably not the same Pedro.

Maybe it was his dad, Pedro the Slow.:D

Watch out for Great Grand dad--:eek:
Pedro the Cruel (http://www.nndb.com/people/583/000095298/)

[JDNSW]

American spelling differs quite markedly from British spelling in far more ways than you think. However, both versions of the language allow a certain variation, and in many cases the alternatives are acceptable in either country.

English spelling was pretty much phonetic (but using at least two different ways of spelling the same sound!) with the spelling reflecting the user's dialect until printing became common. At first, printers tended to use variant spellings to justify lines of type, but by the mid seventeenth century printing houses began to use standard spelling, using a mixture of the variants then in use. Early in the eighteenth century, with the enlightenment, academics began to push a variety of attempts to purify the language, often using new spelling variants to reflect the word's etymology (some false!). This is where the -our came from. The first systematic attempt to standardise the spelling, reflecting what he thought was the best of current usage, was Dr Johnson's dictionary in 1755, which provided the standard for the next hundred years or more.

Copying this idea, but with the intent of differentiating American from English after the revolution was Webster. He produced a set of radical spelling reforms, which flopped, but eventually managed to incorporate the simplest of these into his spelling books, which were his bread and butter. Because he also used many of Johnson's spellings that have since changed, and because he used variants that were more conservative than Johnson, he ended up with quite a few differences. His own dictionary (1828) was an initial flop, but eventually became the standard in the USA, and of course use his spelling.

Australian spelling differs from both British and American spelling in some repects - for example, there are a number of words ending in -ize in both British and American English where Australia uses -ise, for example, mineralise.

Aluminium is a special case. Derived from the pre-existing word alumina, it was initially name aluminum, but this was later changed to aluminium, to conform with similar, earlier pairs soda - sodium etc. This was generally (but not universally) accepted everywhere, including in the USA. However, the first firm to commercially produce aluminium in the USA, Reynolds Metals, used aluminum in the first catalogue to feature it, apparently due to a misprint (they used aluminium in their patent application and other literature). The result was that by about 1912, the usual spelling in the USA was without the 'i', although I don't think that official sources such as Websters changed until the 1920s.

John

[MEANZ06]

Australian spelling differs from both British and American spelling in some repects - for example, there are a number of words ending in -ize in both British and American English where Australia uses -ise, for example, mineralise.


John

ive noticed this early on, on many occasions here. we use "ise" and you Blokes use "ize" in several words... :)

[Lotz-A-Landies]

ive noticed this early on, on many occasions here. we use "ise" and you Blokes use "ize" in several words... :)Yes then there is the collective form of "you", in the US you use "you'all" and we Orstraylaans use "you'se"! :D

Then there's numbers, septics say eite (8) while we say aate

[MEANZ06]

Yes then there is the collective form of "you", in the US you use "you'all" and we Orstraylaans use "you'se"! :D

"Orstraylaans"... hahaha!!!

"you'all" would be a southern dialect in the US. im in the west (california) and we do not use it.

im learning more about the AUS dialect here from "you'se" :D

i'm learning more than one of my first threads asking what a "Bloke" is... LOL

[Hymie]

I've always preferred 'center' over 'centre' :)

I always though one was a noun and the other a verb?

[Hymie]

You couldn't tighten those jeans much more than they are already,

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

Hmmm I dunno....
I'd like to try.....

[Hymie]

English spelling was pretty much phonetic (but using at least two different ways of spelling the same sound!) with the spelling reflecting the user's dialect until printing became common.
John


Yeah OK, but how come phonetic isn't spelt the way it sounds?

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Yeah OK, but how come phonetic isn't spelt the way it sounds?'cause "fonetic" looks silly! :p

[Jeff]

What I find annoying is newspapers who refuse to use the word and, and put in commas, when they should use and.

I find it odd when Americans misuse the term rooting.

Jeff

:rocket:

[vnx205]

As an aside, One of my favourite examples of English oddities is the one of the shop owner correcting the sign writer who has written "Fish, and, Chips" by stating;
"There should be no commas between Fish and and, and and and chips"

Regards
Glen

Did you know it is also possible in a grammatically correct sentence to have the word "that" used five times in a row?

[bob10]

Perhaps off topic a little, but I would like to post here a little from Henry Lawson's poem " The captain of the push", to show how much our language in Australia has changed since the 1800's.Lawson based this poem on a set of verses that belonged to Australias oral tradition. Based on the Rocks area of Sydney, " the push" was a gang with a bloodthirsty reputation that terrorised the area. I start well into the poem , where a country boy is trying to join the "push".

"Now look here", exclaimed the captain to the stranger from the bush
" Now look here-suppose a feller was to split upon the push,
Would you lay for him and down him , even if the traps were around?
Would you lay him out and kick him to a jelly on the ground?
Would you jump upon the nameless- kill or cripple him or both?
Speak, or else I'll-- SPEAK!"the stranger answered" My kerlonial oath!"

"Now look here," exclaimed the captain to the stranger from the bush,
"Now look here- suppose the bleeders let you come and join the push,
Would you smash a bleedin' Bobby if you get the blank alone?
Would you stoush a swell or Chinkie- split his garret with a stone?
Would you have a Moll to keep you- like to swear off work for good?
" Yes , my oath!" replid the stranger" My kerlonial oath I would!"

Slightly different to how we speak now, Bob

[Sleepy]

The one word we always argue about at work is kilometres.

Is it KILL-OH-METERS or KILL-OMETERS?

I aways loose that arguement.

[JDNSW]

Yeah OK, but how come phonetic isn't spelt the way it sounds?

Because English spelling is not phonetic. While partly phonetic, in English the spelling is also used to show the etymology of the word - this helps to recognise the meaning of unfamiliar words, and is particularly the case with technical terms when they are newly introduced. in this case the "phon" is derived from the Greek "phonos" (sound) using the conventional transliteration of "ph" for the Greek letter phi.

A good example of this in a non-technical term is the spelling of "sign", where the "g" is retained to show its relation to words where the "g" is stil pronounced, such as "signal", or consider "doubt" and "dubious".

There are other reasons why spelling does not agree with sound, and one of them is that different places pronounce the same word differently - if spelling had to agree with sound, not only would the spoken word be difficult to understand when you were away from home, so would the written word.

John

[Hymie]

The one word we always argue about at work is kilometres.

Is it KILL-OH-METERS or KILL-OMETERS?

I aways loose that arguement.


To me they are both wrong.

It's Kilo-Meters.
As in Thousands of Meters.

[MickS]

People, especially journalists, who say or write "at about..." There is no such thing. It is either "at" or "about" whatever time/date etc.

[QLDMIKE]

I want to shake hands with the person who decided LISP would be have an S in it. :cool:


Some classics are abbreviation and speech impediment.

[superquag]

...Shall we chuck English vs US spelling into the pot as well ???

Good example is how they use "meter" - as in 1000mm and the round thing with a pointer .
If you're going to pinch a foreign (French) word, then use the original spelling, even if we do massacre the sound!

But then again, our current crop of teachers lack the capacity to discern the differance, - so what chance have the next generation got ???

Off my soapbox now.....:wasntme:

[ramblingboy42]

meters or metres, you can measure a metre with a meter
I dont think theres a kilometer but theres a meter measures kilometres in your car called an odometer....whats "odo"

[RobHay]

I like the soft-top/no top version ... the Chevrolet Cabriolet

... sometimes known as the Chevrolett Cabriolett.

1931, I think; but Ron will remember :angel:

Grant


REMEMBER ! ........He drove one of the new ones...:o:angel:

[RobHay]

You couldn't tighten those jeans much more than they are already,

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/
I vote for her...I vote for her....when I die I want to come back as a pair of her jeans

[RobHay]

ive noticed this early on, on many occasions here. we use "ise" and you Blokes use "ize" in several words... :)
Being a Queenslander...and as all know......Queensland being closer to God's residence......I was taught by Mother Mary Superior of the Sacred Heart of Jesus that the correct spelling for words ending in 'eyes' was ize. and as we all know the correct pronunciation of the letter Z...is Zed, not Zee.

If you want to confuse a Yank just tell him you will see him again in a 'fortnight'

[RobHay]

The one word we always argue about at work is kilometres.

Is it KILL-OH-METERS or KILL-OMETERS?

I aways loose that arguement.


No it is 'KEELOMETER' or even ' KIL - LOM - OATER' is acceptable

[p38arover]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/


I vote for her...I vote for her....when I die I want to come back as a pair of her jeans

Which reminds me of a joke - a bloke walks into a bar....


...... and sat down next to an extremely gorgeous woman. The first thing he noticed about her though, was her pants. They were skin-tight, high-waisted and had no obvious mechanism (zipper, buttons or velcro) for opening them. After several minutes of puzzling over how she got the pants up over her hips, he finally worked up the nerve to ask her.

"Excuse me miss, but how do you get into your pants?" he asks.

"Well," she replied, "You can start by buying me a drink."

[Lotz-A-Landies]

meters or metres, you can measure a metre with a meter
I dont think theres a kilometer but theres a meter measures kilometres in your car called an odometer....whats "odo"Not sure what an "odo" is, but there are places on the highways around NSW where you check them!

[land864]

Superquag

differance :eek:

Really , come on :o :angel:

[Redback]

OK, explain to me "light"

The "light" is not heavy, but "light" in this lighthearted enlight[n]ing thread

Is it lite:D

[85 county]

GMH Monaro, Monaro NSW


In engineering/ jobbing, 2 (qty) off? Should be 'of' ,as in "2 of them"?
Always wondered
Dave.

AHH i know this one

2 off, the bar/ shelf/ tree etc etc

[JDNSW]

Being a Queenslander...and as all know......Queensland being closer to God's residence......I was taught by Mother Mary Superior of the Sacred Heart of Jesus that the correct spelling for words ending in 'eyes' was ize. ............'

There is a list of words that must always use -ise, such as advertise, but apart from this there are a large number of words that derive ultimately from the Greek infinitival ending which would be transliterated into -ize. But many of them come into English via the French, who have almost invariably used -ise. In Britain the Oxford University Press uses -ize, and so do all American writers and publishers. However many publishing houses in Britain such as Cambridge University Press (and most Australian publishers) use -ise.

If interested, Fowler has about a page and a half on the subject. He does not mention Australia, but my experience (including seven years as the editor of a scientific journal) shows that most Australians use -ise where this is allowed, which is in most such words. In Britain, the tendency seems to be swinging towards -ize, marking a distinction from Australian English, although in most cases neither spelling would be considered "wrong", just unusual to some people.

John

[numpty]

The one word we always argue about at work is kilometres.

Is it KILL-OH-METERS or KILL-OMETERS?

I aways loose that arguement.

When we changed to metric measurement (1976) it was decreed that the correct pronunciation for kilometres would be KILL OH METRES. After all, you dont say KI LOGRAM, it is KILL OH GRAM. Also KILL OH LITRE rather than KI LOLITRES ;)

And as I said earlier........it is LOSE :o:mad::twisted:

[land864]

Unless you don't have a good grip on your argument Numpt or it is not very sound. Then it could be loose! The spelling is correct but the syntax is all wrong:eek:

[numpty]

Unless you don't have a good grip on your argument Numpt or it is not very sound. Then it could be loose! The spelling is correct but the syntax is all wrong:eek:

Ahh yes, but that is not what is at issue.

You cannot LOOSE an argument but you can LOSE one.;) Neither does my grip (on whatever) have anything to do with it:)

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Anyone else find it irritating when the younger set ( particularly TV Presenters) prounounce important , impordant :mad:More annoying is when newsreaders talk about someone lost in the snow or arctic waters suffering from "hyperthermia". :mad:

I'm buggered if I can work out how an iceburg iceberg can make you hot!


Thanks Ron

[Blknight.aus]

however you can lose an argument if your argument is loose.

[RobHay]

When we changed to metric measurement (1976) it was decreed that the correct pronunciation for kilometres would be KILL OH METRES. After all, you dont say KI LOGRAM, it is KILL OH GRAM. Also KILL OH LITRE rather than KI LOLITRES ;)

And as I said earlier........it is LOSE :o:mad::twisted:
Numpty, If you got everything else wrong....you certainly got the sentiment and the colour right..........Blues Lose:D:p:angel:

[Lotz-A-Landies]

however you can lose an argument if your argument is loose.You may also lose the argument if your stool is loose (and you have to leave in a hurry)! :twisted:

[p38arover]

I'm buggered if I can work out how an iceburg can make you hot!


It's the name of a town? :angel:

(there is, apparently, a street in Warwick, Qld, with that spelling.)

[bob10]

:D:D


I'm buggered if I can work out how an iceburg iceberg can make you hot!
snip

Thanks Ron
Iceberg cocktail-- vodka, pernod, peppermint,schnapps , after a gallon or two of those, I might even look hot to some desperate woman. Then again, she'd have to be blxxdy desperate! :D Bob

[MickS]

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/general-chat/36594d1307495196-when-words-pronounced-differently-who-chick.jpg



http://www.bluebirddenim.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/skin-tight-jeans-cameltoe.jpg

Taken from a different angel...err angle :p :eek:

[land864]

Diana , wouldn't one just tighten up their legs to deal with a loose stool:angel:

And will you other guys stop reposting up the pic of Blondey with the jeans:eek:

How is a guy supposed to get any work done around here:)

The alternate front view reminds me of the term mumble pants . You will have to PM me if you can't work it out or haven't heard it before;)

[jc109]

The RAN followed the RN , and other Commonwealth navies, in pronouncing it " lef" tenant, usually shortened to "le" tenat when piping over the main broadcast system. However, when our crews spent some time in the USA, awaiting the completion of the DDG's [PERTH, HOBART ,BRISBANE ] "loo' tenant was common.Upon the return to the UK of the RN from singapore in the late 60's, and our closer ties with the USN , especially RIMPAC exercises in the Hawaiin area, more American phrases became common.However, officially, 'lef" tenant is the RAN's prononciation, and woe betide any hapless sailor who calls Jimmy the One, The First "Loo" tenant.

I believe you're way off the mark there. If you think of the pronunciation alone then it's probably more correctly spelled le (as in the French word) tenant. Not loo. It's a bastardisation of the word and has been pronounced "letenant" (or however you care to spell it) for a very long time, and certainly well before the yanks got ahold of our language. Mind you I've seen naval historians have stand up arguments over this. But the ones I respected the most tended to agree on this.

[jc109]

Does anyone else here see the irony in having so many poorly spelt and grammatically woeful posts in a thread criticising others' use of language?

I'm not claiming perfection by the way, but I do find it amusing. Particularly when I see two of my favourite transgressions being whipped out by self-styled experts.

People need to realise that the word 'I' is not automatically correct when speaking of you and another. What is correct in the singular is correct in the plural. For example: "You can come to the shop with Bob and me." Or, "Bob and I are going to the shops". Make sense?

And many more need to learn how to use apostrophes.

Anyway, my bugbear at the moment when listening to the news is "incidences". It's incidents for heaven's sake.

Now I just hope I haven't missed any mistakes...

[p38arover]

What is correct in the singular is correct in the plural. For example: "You can come to the shop with Bob and me." Or, "Bob and I are going to the shops". Make sense?

I use this reminder (which may well be wrong) - make it singular and then read it, i.e., "You can come to the shop Bob and with me." or "Bob and I are am going to the shops".

One wouldn't say" "You can come to the shop with Bob and I." nor "Bob and me are am going to the shops".

[numpty]

And will you other guys stop reposting up the pic of Blondey with the jeans:eek:

How is a guy supposed to get any work done around here:)

The alternate front view reminds me of the term mumble pants . You will have to PM me if you can't work it out or haven't heard it before;)

Errr, camel toe anyone :angel:

[Homestar]

I use this reminder (which may well be wrong) - make it singular and then read it, i.e., "You can come to the shop Bob and with me." or "Bob and I are am going to the shops".

One wouldn't say" "You can come to the shop with Bob and I." nor "Bob and me are am going to the shops".


Spot on as far as I am concerned. I was also taught to read it from both sides to see if it sounded right

'I am going to the shop.'
'Bob is going to the shop' so...

'Bob & I are going to the shop' would be correct as far as I know...

[vnx205]

The thing that amuses me about that particular error is that people with a sound understanding of grammar usually get it right. People with absolutely no understanding of grammar often get it right. It is the people in between who are trying to show off what little knowledge they have who get it wrong.

A yob on his way to the pub would probably just ask his mate, "Do you want to come down to the pub with Fred and me?" or perhaps, "Wanna join Fred and me for a drink?"

Someone else might say, "Do you want to come down to the wine bar with Beatrice and I?" or perhaps "Fancy joining Beatrice and I for a glass of Chardonnay?"

The Chardonnay drinker might sound more posh, but she would be wrong and the yob would be right.

As others have said, the best way to be clear about that rule is to separate the people. It is obvious that something like, "It was a gift from Mary and I" is wrong when you change it to, "It was a gift from Mary and it was a gift from me."

It is a bit like the greengrocers' apostrophe, a mistake made by people who don't want to appear ignorant.

[Homestar]

It is a bit like the greengrocers' apostrophe, a mistake made by people who don't want to appear ignorant.

Don't get me started there... My Dad was an English teacher all his life, and now carries a piece of chalk with him when he's in the city, to correct any incorrect signage he might come across.

[bob10]

I believe you're way off the mark there

I have no doubt you are probably correct, I certainly don't claim to be an expert on this. I can only comment on the period I served, 1964 - 1985, when the R.A.N was still heavily influenced by our genesis, the R.N., and the language used was drawn mostly from them . "Lef" tenat was the form used, along with [as pronounced] comm "arn"der, as opposed to comm "and"er, which is what we hear spoken so often today. When the R.N. left the Asian area in the late 60's, and our crews came back from the U.S. on the new american built ships, certain U.S.N. phrases made their way into our language, even more so when we served as part of the U.S. 7th Fleet on the gunline during the Vietnam conflict. I know if you google" lieutenant" there is a excellent history of the word there. I didn't see any Naval Historians at sea, so I guess we had no experts to chat to, cheers, Bob:D

[p38arover]

It is the people in between who are trying to show off what little knowledge they have who get it wrong.

Bugger! You've found me out once again, Peter! :(

[Marshall]

My wife is Dutch and when she first came to Australia she asked me "Who's Carl?" my response: "huh?" she said "You know, those big signs near the car wash that say CarL overs"...

[jc109]

Don't get me started there... My Dad was an English teacher all his life, and now carries a piece of chalk with him when he's in the city, to correct any incorrect signage he might come across.

Ever read Eats, Shoots & Leaves: The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation, by Lynne Truss? Fantastic book.

[jc109]

I didn't see any Naval Historians at sea, so I guess we had no experts to chat to, cheers, Bob:D

Nor did I Bob, but when I was ashore (which wasn't often) and cared to listen to their self-important rantings that is what I found. I can assure you that I pay very particular attention to things like this, and it irked me to learn that my British and RN leanings (upon qualifying I treated myself to, amongst other things, a Gieves and Hawke Class 1...) had to be tempered by what I thought sounded like an Americanisation. I soon found that it wasn't due to the yanks at all. Again, I may stand corrected, but in this instance I doubt it.

[jc109]

Errr, camel toe anyone :angel:
I see you your camel toe and raise you a mooseknuckle...

[p38arover]

Ever read Eats, Shoots & Leaves: The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation, by Lynne Truss? Fantastic book.

Yes, my wife bought it and another of Lynne Truss' books for me.

[Homestar]

Ever read Eats, Shoots & Leaves: The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation, by Lynne Truss? Fantastic book.


No, but now I'll be looking out for it... Cheers.

[jc109]

And we're off on a tangent here... (It's a slow news day here at work).

Whilst I wouldn't consider it authoritative, I found this from a page of the RN's website:

Royal Navy (http://jackspeak.royalnavy.mod.uk/training-and-people/rn-life/navy-slang/covey-crump-a-to-aye/labour-lutine/index.htm)

LIEUTENANTThe first reference to a naval Lieutenant is in 1580 when one was borne in each ship as the Captain's understudy. The word is pronounced L'TENANT in the Royal Navy, LEFTENANT in the Army, and LOOTERNANT in the U.S. Navy. "Lieutenant-Commander"This rank was introduced in 1914, though the extra half stripe had been the distinguishing mark for Lieutenants of more than 8 years: seniority since 1877. "Lieutenant of the Admiralty"The Lieutenant of the Admiralty (or Lieutenant-Admiral) is first found in about the middle of the XIV century, as the Deputy or Assistant to the Lord High Admiral. In 1546, when the Navy Board was created, the Lieutenant of the Admiralty was appointed as its Head, but this ceased in 1564 when the Treasurer of the Navy became the Head of the Board. The post was revived in 1604 when it appears to have been given as a mark of honourable distinction - with a salary of £100p.a., two clerks and certain travelling expenses. In 1672 the post of Lieutenant of the Admiralty was merged into that of Vice-Admiral of England (of the United Kingdom after 1801). "Sub-Lieutenant"This rank was introduced in May, 1861, to supersede that of Mate for Midshipmen passed for Lieutenant. But in December, 1804, an Order in Council authorised it as a post title for the second in command of all Brigs commanded by a Lieutenant.

[woody]

I can't believe 11 pages on and no one has made mention of those across the ditch with their pronunciation of anything with "wh" in it.

woody

[bob10]

And we're off on a tangent here... (It's a slow news day here at work)..
Stop being so R.N.centric and google lieutenant, and what do you mean by the R.N. website?Which one? Is it because the truth is the word is FRENCH!, sacre blue, we couldn't have that, surely!Beat to quarters, stand by to repel boarders! Bob :spudnikconfounded: :D

[jc109]

Stop being so R.N.centric and google lieutenant, and what do you mean by the R.N. website?Which one? Is it because the truth is the word is FRENCH!, sacre blue, we couldn't have that, surely!Beat to quarters, stand by to repel boarders! Bob :spudnikconfounded: :D

Oh I did. I said it was a slow day...

By "Which one?" do you mean which RN (there is only one as far as I'm concerned) or do you mean which website? Click on the link I attached and all will be revealed. To make it easy, it's the official RN/MOD site.

And I'm getting confused now. Have we just switched sides?

By the way, as much as I'd love the excitment I don't need to get my hands dirty repelling boarders: I'd simply open 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 main ballast tank flood and vent valves and they'd soon learn the error of their ways.

Anyway, l'tenant is how it's pronounced in the RAN, based on what came down from the RN, based on centuries of evolution of their language and jargon. Apart from what may have been a brief romance with American terms some decades ago as you experienced (much like those God-awful khakis and collar badges), it remains as it's always been. And If I ever heard anyone other than a USN officer or sailor say Comm-AND-er they were civilians and they watched too many movies. It has never been a part of the RAN I know.

Your turn...

[V8Ian]

Would someone like to enlighten me on who/whom please? :confused:

[vnx205]

Would someone like to enlighten me on who/whom please? :confused:

Try this quick check.

From
Who and Whom (http://homeworktips.about.com/od/homeworkhelp/a/whom.htm)

You can also use this simple test in your head.

Silently replace the word with he or him to see which sounds better. He is the equivalent of who (subjective) and him is the equivalent of whom (objective).

For instance, if you want to decide which is correct in this sentence:

Who/Whom should I consider as a college recommendation?

Re-arrange the sentence in your head so it will make sense using him or he. You'll come up with the following choices:

I should consider him...
I should consider he... Him is clearly better. Therefore, the correct word in the sentence above will be whom.

Or if that one doesn't make sense, try this one.
Who and whom (http://web.ku.edu/~edit/whom.html)

If neither of them makes sense, google "who or whom" and you will get more explanations than you can poke a stick at. :)

[bob10]

Oh I did. I said it was a slow day...

By "Which one?" do you mean which RN (there is only one as far as I'm concerned) or do you mean which website? Click on the link I attached and all will be revealed. To make it easy, it's the official RN/MOD site.

And I'm getting confused now. Have we just switched sides?

By the way, as much as I'd love the excitment I don't need to get my hands dirty repelling boarders: I'd simply open 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 main ballast tank flood and vent valves and they'd soon learn the error of their ways.

Your turn...
Now you have tacked your colours to the mast, I'm lowering the sea ensign and raising the gin pennant! All jokes aside, I think what we have been discussing is an example of how outside influences can cause subtle changes in language, sometimes temporary, other times permanent.It's just an example of the evolution of English as we know it, and I think it is a healthy trend.Having been a "skimmer", and with friends who had crossed to the Dark Side, AKA the Submarine service, I would indeed hope we are on the same side. Cheers Bob. :twobeers:

[jc109]

Now you have tacked your colours to the mast, I'm lowering the sea ensign and raising the gin pennant! All jokes aside, I think what we have been discussing is an example of how outside influences can cause subtle changes in language, sometimes temporary, other times permanent.It's just an example of the evolution of English as we know it, and I think it is a healthy trend.Having been a "skimmer", and with friends who had crossed to the Dark Side, AKA the Submarine service, I would indeed hope we are on the same side. Cheers Bob. :twobeers:

I agree wholeheartedly with everything you've said Bob. Except the bit where you said you were joking about the gin pennant. And yes we're most certainly on the same side. Not that I'm much risk to anyone these days. Nor are my PNF mates at the moment for that matter...

[e3j]

...Shall we chuck English vs US spelling into the pot as well ???

Good example is how they use "meter" - as in 1000mm and the round thing with a pointer .
If you're going to pinch a foreign (French) word, then use the original spelling, even if we do massacre the sound!

But then again, our current crop of teachers lack the capacity to discern the differance, - so what chance have the next generation got ???

Off my soapbox now.....:wasntme:

I agree......or the difference.

[clubagreenie]

Easiest way I found around the who/whom is:

wHO 2 wHOM 3
HE 2 HIM 3

[p38arover]

Easiest way I found around the who/whom is:

wHO 2 wHOM 3
HE 2 HIM 3

Can a Ho be a he? :D

[clubagreenie]

In the right parts of Sydney. Yes.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Can a Ho be a he? :DNah - GTHO "HO" for short, should always be a he! :D

[85 county]

Subaru pronounced as supa-roo and not Sue- Bar- u like the rest of the wourld

[Davehoos]

No it is 'KEELOMETER' or even ' KIL - LOM - OATER' is acceptable

my learned friend blames Gough Whitliam for the official translation KIL - LOM - OATER.

those that are anti gough use KILLA-METER.

my learned friend uses the aregument that its not a MILL-OHmETAH or MILLOH-lee-TAH[MELOH-LITAH] [cant actually say it].

it cant be KILOH or KEELOH as you drive a cuppla KAYS.

[Davehoos]

Subaru pronounced as supa-roo and not Sue- Bar- u like the rest of the wourld

its SAAB-ARE-YOU:)
and MARS-DAH

[clubagreenie]

Americanism at it's worse PEWJO (Peugeot)

All through Le Mans.

Odometer is for those who own both a pre S3 rover and a post S3 where you have to work in both.