Alternator tie down bolts and Copper Anti Seize?

[bbyer]

I am going to change my alternator in the next few weeks with a replacement one but keep the existing as a spare. The existing is working OK but has about 130,000 km on it now and five plus years so it seems like a good idea.

I kind of like coating Copper Anti-Seize Lubricant, (Permatex #09127), on various bolts and threads when I take things apart and put them back together.

I just wondered if anyone thinks there is a downside to introducing a copper based material as I am not certain just what the bolts thread into down there. The engine block is some sort of aluminum alloy but I am not certain if the assembly that retains the alternator is the actual engine block or some mounting bracket made of something else. The three alternator tie down bolts, (M10 x 75), are probably some sort of steel and the instructions on the Permatex container say the copper grease is OK with aluminum, Monel, and other exotics as well as steel and the like, hence I do not see any real potential problems.

[Wilbur]

I am going to change my alternator in the next few weeks with a replacement one but keep the existing as a spare. The existing is working OK but has about 130,000 km on it now and five plus years so it seems like a good idea.

I kind of like coating Copper Anti-Seize Lubricant, (Permatex #09127), on various bolts and threads when I take things apart and put them back together.

I just wondered if anyone thinks there is a downside to introducing a copper based material as I am not certain just what the bolts thread into down there. The engine block is some sort of aluminum alloy but I am not certain if the assembly that retains the alternator is the actual engine block or some mounting bracket made of something else. The three alternator tie down bolts, (M10 x 75), are probably some sort of steel and the instructions on the Permatex container say the copper grease is OK with aluminum, Monel, and other exotics as well as steel and the like, hence I do not see any real potential problems.

This is not an answer to your question, but could be relevant. The copper anti-seize lubricant presumably is designed primarily to prevent two dis-similar metals bonding together. However I wonder about the included word 'lubricant'.

It would be interesting to tighten one of the bolts up dry with a tension wrench, then use a tension wrench to see what tension was required to release the bolt. Then try the identical test with the copper anti-seize lubricant to see if there is any risk that it could cause the bolts to loosen off in time.

This would be a crude test as it is not in a vibrating environment, but it might give some indication. Of course I might be talking out of the top of my head too - possibly all this is well known.

Cheers all,

Paul

[oldsalt]

I have used "copper grease" on my wheels nuts on a variety of vehicles - plus aircraft - and so far no wheels have come off unexpectedly .....
cheers

[bbyer]

This is not an answer to your question, but could be relevant. The copper anti-seize lubricant presumably is designed primarily to prevent two dis-similar metals bonding together. However I wonder about the included word 'lubricant'.

It would be interesting to tighten one of the bolts up dry with a tension wrench, then use a tension wrench to see what tension was required to release the bolt. Then try the identical test with the copper anti-seize lubricant to see if there is any risk that it could cause the bolts to loosen off in time.

This would be a crude test as it is not in a vibrating environment, but it might give some indication. Of course I might be talking out of the top of my head too - possibly all this is well known. Cheers all, Paul

My concern was dissimilar metals as I do not know just what the alternator fixings are made of. As to loosening, I do not think that is a problem as the worst that will happen is the the lubricant effect will allow one to tighten the bolt further down into the threads and hence stretch the unthreaded portion of the bolt a bit more for a given torque setting. In practice, this is supposed to be more good than bad, as within limits, the self undoing tendency should be less.

And yes, I have been putting copper grease on my wheel studs, as previously when dry, at times, they did not sound very nice when undoing. To date, all the wheels have stayed on.

[RR P38]

It is good gear.
If more people used it on exhaust manifolds and water pumps they would find dis assembly much easier without the damage.
Unless a part has thread lock on it i use the stuff any where i can.
It makes life a hell of a lot easier.
I cant say that anything i have ever used it on has come loose.
I always keep it away from seals and such.

There are recommended uses for Nickle anti seize and copper coat;
Nickel Anti-Seize is recommended where very different metals are used together such as brass and steel because Nickel is a hard metal and keeps surface apart. It is also used where high Nickel alloy metals such as Stainless Steel, or where Titanium or other hard metals are involved. Nickel Anti-Seize is also used where metals such as Copper cannot be present such as in caustic, ammonium or high acidity processing plants. Surface need not be cleaned before application unless grit or low quality oil/grease is present and ultimate performance is required. Use on threaded parts, bushings, gears, valve stems, chain sprockets, levers, hinges, pivots, rollers, heat exchanger or manifold bolts, or as a gasket release agent, etc.
NOTE: This product is not recommended for pure oxygen systems.

And copper coat;
Can be used as a lubricant, a sealer, a break in lubricant, a tapping compound on plastics as well as metals. Surface need not be cleaned before application unless grit or low quality oil/grease is present and ultimate performance is required. The reduction in assembly friction increases torque tension by about 20%. Use on threaded parts, bushings, gears, valve stems, chain sprockets, levers, hinges, pivots, rollers, heat exchanger or manifold bolts, or as a gasket release agent, etc.
NOTE: This product is not recommended for pure oxygen systems.

[Tombie]

I wouldnt recommend it...

I'd use this loctite product:

http://www.ferret.com.au/odin/images/228773/Anti-Seize-Lubricants-from-Loctite-228773.jpg



Metal Lubrication
Loctite Heavy Duty Anti Seize Stick. New to the Loctite range, the product has the same characteristics as its liquid counterpart, but in the convenience of a stick.


Features and Benefits of Anti Seize Lubricants


Semi-Solid Stick Form
Metal Free
High Temperature resistance +1312ºC
Being non-metallic provides more consistent lubricity
Better Chemical Resistance
GE approval for gas turbine applications
Suitable for stainless steel, nickel and high temperature alloys
Applications of the Anti-Seize Lubricants

Recommended for OEM specified turbine studs and bolts
Bolts
Screws
Pipe Joints
Nuts
Plugs
Bushings
Heat Exchangers
Shear Blades
Metal Bending
Mechanical Packings
Chemical Plants
Oil Refineries
Power Plants
Paper Mills
Steel Mills
Founderies
Synthetic Fibre Plants
Ships
Aerospace Manufacturing

[Nomad9]

Hi Bbyer,
Just keep the Copper anti seize away from stainless steel, can cause stress corrosion cracking, especially at the root of the thread. Nickel is a good all rounder, the more expensive it is the higher percentage of whatever, copper or nickel. You won't typically get any greater percentage than 33% (I think), any more than that and the liquid can't hold the Copper/ Nickel in suspension. If I have any doubts about compatibility I use Thread eze ultra by Chemsearch, this is another all rounder.
Another good one for extreme temperatures is good old Milk Of Magnesia, works every time and a damn site cheaper (and better) than a lot of other anti seizes.
In the industry I work in we have a bit of a thing about anti seize. Might have guessed........
Lubricant is used loosely as mentioned, what you are concerned about is what is left behind long after the lubricant has either burnt off or run out of the thread.
Hope this helps.