Driving Lights - D3/RRS

[101RRS]

I drove back from Adaminaby to Canberra through the mountains last night and found the lights on my RRS really not up too scatch - around town and at slower offroad speeds they are OK but at 80kph on narrow, winding dirt roads not really good enough. I had to use my ****** lights for the first time to get a bit of light at the sides to help spot wombats and skippy which were out in abundance.

So firstly what driving lights are people using on their D3/RRS that work well. Also is HID an option for driving lights and what heat range give the best light. Also do you need a landrover harness and do they have to be switched on through the computer or can you just splice in the good old way.

On the issue of HIDs what kits are people using to upgrade their high beams - and again what heat range and wattage gives the usable light. Also what are the compatibility issues with the current wiring?

Thanks

Garry

[Owl]

I'm using one of these.... ML240X (http://www.litestorm.com.au/xtreme/ls240x.htm) .... on the roof rack. Turns night into day with really good spread. So much better to drive by than HID's in the twisty stuff. HID's may be better for spotting skippy 800m up the road, but too easy to miss the one about to jump out 20m away.
You could get similar result with this one.... ls240x quad (http://www.litestorm.com.au/xtreme/ls240xq.htm) .... mounted on the bull bar.

Ian

[Graeme]

I don't know what light pattern the RRS high beam produces, but the D4 high beam provides a very useful (if only it wasn't in the trees) wide, flat beam that lights the verges well. Therefore converting the D4 high beam to HID (with the globe slanted) is very worthwhile. I fitted an ebay 50/55W kit, using 1 high beam supply wire as the trigger wire for a relay that powers the HID ballasts. I opted for the 3000K yellow globes for best visibility in rain but 5000K would have been my 2nd choice for best all-round light.
The HID high beam is slow to light-up if not used recently, but if dipped for oncoming traffic it responds quickly enough to be able to see through the spray if used whilst still alongside a passing truck.

[RichardK]

Graeme, has your RRS got QH or HID headlights, my D3 had QH which weren't nearly as good as my previous D3 with BiXenons (HID I think) so I bought a new set of BiXenons (from UK much much cheaper) and they are just "plug and play" A massive improvement.

[Wilbur]

My new D4 has the halogen lights, and while the low beam is fine, the high beam is a disappointment. (The only disappointment in a staggeringly good car).

I have HID's in my Oka and I plan to change back to halogen, with LED extras as suggested by Owl. To me, the HID's are just too complicated. They certainly do poke out the light, but I suspect long term reliability in off-road conditions.

Also - and this is debatable - white light from a filament type globe (halogen or whatever) has every colour of the spectrum combined to make up white light. HID's have a segmented spectrum with a 'white' look, but some colours are missing. I find for all the brightness of HID's it is actually easier to see with the conventional halogens on my Defender. LED's suffer the same thing, but combined with halogens I think they would do the trick.

I would be very glad to hear from anyone with more knowledge on this subject.

Cheers all,

Paul

[Ean Austral]

Hard one for me to comment because after the woeful lights on the D2, the bi-xenon's on the D3 are impressive.

I did read somewhere (maybe on here) that someone had a air-con compresser failure on their D3 and was told it was the spotties on the bullbar restricting airflow that caused it to overheat...not sure about that, as you see more than enough 4x4's of all makes with spotties mounted infront of the grille.

I do see a A/Con post on here with a similar statement, but think the one I read was elsewhere.

Would be interested to know if anyone beleives this as will look at putting some on mine when I fit a front bar..

Cheers Ean

[Tote]

I'm running a couple of old Rallye 2000 Hellas and they are adequate. I have two relays mounted on a piece of aluminium which is screwed to the lower mounting holes for the Fuel Burning heater in front of the battery box. Sense for the relays is taken from the passenger side factory driving light with a wire spliced in as usual, been runing happiily for 3 years.
I dont have a seperate switch for the driving lights but it is easy to incorporate by either switching the earth for the relay coils (1 wire to cab ) or switching the +ve sense ( two wires to cab).
If I was going to buy new lights today I'd have a look at the Lightforce XGTs if you want big lights or maybe the smaller lightforce units if you want a good xenon in a smaller package. Ace on the forum can do good deals on the lightforce units and they are sometimes on special at Autobarn.

Regards,
Tote

[Graeme]

I have HID's in my Oka and I plan to change back to halogen, with LED extras as suggested by Owl. To me, the HID's are just too complicated. They certainly do poke out the light, but I suspect long term reliability in off-road conditions.

Also - and this is debatable - white light from a filament type globe (halogen or whatever) has every colour of the spectrum combined to make up white light. HID's have a segmented spectrum with a 'white' look, but some colours are missing. I find for all the brightness of HID's it is actually easier to see with the conventional halogens on my Defender. LED's suffer the same thing, but combined with halogens I think they would do the trick.
I cannot understand any complication with fitting HIDs. I also think that if the HIDs arent working as well as halogens then perhaps the colour isn't right. I'm very happy with the excellent penetration and lack of glare from my 3000K HIDs. HID globes will outlast filament globes 10 fold and even more-so when used off-road.

[Tombie]

I cannot understand any complication with fitting HIDs. I also think that if the HIDs arent working as well as halogens then perhaps the colour isn't right. I'm very happy with the excellent penetration and lack of glare from my 3000K HIDs. HID globes will outlast filament globes 10 fold and even more-so when used off-road.

Agree with you there Graeme...

I'm thinking he's got a colour range not suited to his vision!!!

Its well known that we struggle with whiter light as we age... Maybe he runs around 6000k and would do better heading down to 4500k or 3000k as you have mentioned.

And yes, HID globes will easily outlast a filament globe... Biggest killers of filaments are vibration and heat...

[101RRS]

Great discussion and points raised. if HIDs are fitted as high beam - how long do they take to get up to full power when hi beam is selected. Also what happens if you need to flash your lights - do they go on and off quick enough?

If I get HIDs in some spotties I will go max wattage but what about high beams - what suits best 35w or 55w?

Thanks

Garry

[Geedublya]

Usually Bi Zenons use the same HID bulb for low and high beam with a mechanical shutter changing the light spread. This prevents any problems with the HID taking time to warm up.
As far as I can tell the Bi Zenons on the D3 work this way with an auxiliary QH high beam light also.

I am planning to upgrade the QH hi beam to HID and then look at driving lights if that is not enough. I like the Lightforce but had it pointed out to me that the mounting bolt sticks out where anyone can access it which is always a concern here in Sydney. I intend to go with either Hella, IPF or 2 small LED (winch in the middle) bars if required.

[Celtoid]

Usually Bi Zenons use the same HID bulb for low and high beam with a mechanical shutter changing the light spread. This prevents any problems with the HID taking time to warm up.
As far as I can tell the Bi Zenons on the D3 work this way with an auxiliary QH high beam light also.

I am planning to upgrade the QH hi beam to HID and then look at driving lights if that is not enough. I like the Lightforce but had it pointed out to me that the mounting bolt sticks out where anyone can access it which is always a concern here in Sydney. I intend to go with either Hella, IPF or 2 small LED (winch in the middle) bars if required.

That's exactly how my MY 2010 D4 SE works. Shutter partially covers Bi-xenon bulb at low beam and lifts for high. The Halogen 'fillers' then come on too.

[NomadicD3]

Hi Garry,
I've been running Hid's for years now. With the set up on the D1 I had both HID's in the headlights and spotlights and it's like drivng around inside the MCG with all the stadium lights on, absolutely brilliant. The spotties were just the good ol' hella rallye 4000's with the 4500k HID insert kit in them and I still have them on the D3 and will never part with them. Personally I think that anything in the 4000k-6000k range is ideal. I noticed significantly less eye fatigue when doing long night driving stints and with 1 broad beam and 1 spot beam in the spotlight setup it gives me ample coverage in all directions. The spotties were purchased in 1996 and converted to HID in 2006.I have never replaced the HID bulbs. Considering it still only costs about $500 for the spot lights and $300 for the HID conversion kit it not a bad option. The rallye 4000's are a full offroad unit with a steel housing and if you smash a lenses you can buy it as a seperate item, same applies to the reflector if it gets damaged, something that some lights don't enable you to do.
Just for interests, the HID spotlights still wash out {over power}the bi-xenon headlights on the D3.
Another thing I found when I was travelling alot in the D1, with so much light out front, was the oncoming drivers would be flashing their high beams when they were still 5 km's or more away {WA alot of long flat roads:D} So I would probably say to much light even with the lights set a little more down angle than I would normally, not to mention when cornering or cresting hills, the lights completely wash out anyone else's lights {unless they had HID's too} and it's hard to know they are coming until you have given an eye full of white lights. This does tend to make people unhappy:wasntme: .Just something I think people should consider when setting up a lighting package. If you do go HID Garry look at the ones made in Japan ie Phillips {which is what I am running} etc apparently they are more reliable than most and a reasonable cost.
I must however confess I too would like to get the LED spotties up front just to see how good they are!!!!
I'm sure you will see a clear path after all the good advice from the forum Garry too cooolllll!!!:p

[Graeme]

Just for interests, the HID spotlights still wash out {over power}the bi-xenon headlights on the D3.
..as do the D4's halogens when converted to HID.
I have a pair of old Narva 4x4 Off-Roaders converted to HID that were fitted in a hurry to temporary brackets when I found the D4 had possum lights, but have not felt the need to refit them (to the bull-bar if they were refitted) since the halogen high beams were converted to HID and they work so well. No-one can steal them either.

[RichardK]

Ive had no reliability problems with BiXenons, my first D3 did 168000K's no repalcements and the new D3 has done around 20000k's since I installed the BiXenons and no problems as yet (touchwood!)

[superquag]

Just my 2 cents worth... and apologies for the soapbox!

Having tried HID's in 2 vehicles, - and discarded in one of them, IMHO there is no need at all for HID's as a low beam. Especially as a retrofit, which as far as I know, is technically against the ADRs.

Without going into boring detail, the older optics cannot meet the far more stringent requirements that is demanded by HID lamps. Well, not by the bulbs, obviously, but by the unfortunate buggers who are driving toward them!!!

In short, something like 10% (of 1200 lumens) unwanted spillage above the low-beam cut-off with a QH bulb is only around 120 lumens. Not ideal, but not a real worry. But now with around 3000 - or more - lumens, that little 10% has grown to 300 - or more - lumens which is now a distraction and painful as well.

Added to that is the fact that the old headlamp reflectors/lenses are not doing a 100% job with the HIDs...and the odd extra load in the back tonight..means that your low beam is now a real danger to others.
And don't believe that the LR 'self-levelling' will take care of your perfect headlight aiming...it won't 'cos it only sets the level in relation to your axle to body height... and makes no allowance for your rear tyres being a bit flatter on the bottom with the extra load (see above!)

For high beam, go as bright as you like...except that now you must dip your lights - as does the other guy - several km further away than you would have if you'd kept the original halogen filament globes... Effectively both of you will be travelling a LOT longer on your low beams.... unable to see Brer Kangaroo or Brer Wombat or brer camel/horse/cow wandering across the dark spot. Being big tough blokes, we won't worry about brer Rabbit.....

This applies a lot in WA where we have miles of flat roads out in the never-never.

My own suggestion is HID (or LED) driving lights, maybe more spread than spearing 5km down the road, and keep the colour temp low. Higher values such as 6000 K tend to flatten detail in the foliage...and make the road surface seem SO much like 'daylight'.... that you don't notice the fact the bush is super-bright, AND 'washed out'.

Biggest laugh though, is the most efficient HIDs are at the low end - colour -and the blues/violets barely as bright on the road as a good '+50' halogen! - they just annoy everyone a lot more, and hopefully attract more Cops...

Others have already pointed out the value of 3000 to 4000K and they're absolutely correct. (I'm retired from a Graphics / Printing / Photographic life...) And yes, a filament will contain a smooth progression of colour from red to blue and even to UV. The hotter it burns, the more the balance shifts toward the blue end - the more green, blue and ultra-violet is produced.
This is the science behind +30 and +50% halogen bulbs, they internally reflect more infra-red, therefore cook the filament to a higher temp for the same current drawn, and produce more and 'whiter' light.

My other car ? - Wife's Jap import with Japanese Domestic Market "JDM" headlights, the low beam pattern is a slightly rounded straight line, with NO annoying or useless up-kick to the kerb. I've got 3000K bulbs in them, individually hand-focussed to perfection,:eek: and aimed a little bit lower than the older - 35 watt - halogens were.
- The dipping HIDs are gathering dust in my shed.:(

As a parting shot, just take notice of the newer Chrysler abominations, they come with HID's as standard.... are their lights (in your mirrors or in your face..) easy on your eyes ? Or anyone elses...

Enought steam for one night! :twisted:

[bbyer]

Biggest laugh though, is the most efficient HIDs are at the low end - colour -and the blues/violets barely as bright on the road as a good '+50' halogen! - they just annoy everyone a lot more, and hopefully attract more Cops...

Others have already pointed out the value of 3000 to 4000K and they're absolutely correct. (I'm retired from a Graphics / Printing / Photographic life...) And yes, a filament will contain a smooth progression of colour from red to blue and even to UV. The hotter it burns, the more the balance shifts toward the blue end - the more green, blue and ultra-violet is produced.
This is the science behind +30 and +50% halogen bulbs, they internally reflect more infra-red, therefore cook the filament to a higher temp for the same current drawn, and produce more and 'whiter' light.

My other car ? - Wife's Jap import with Japanese Domestic Market "JDM" headlights, the low beam pattern is a slightly rounded straight line, with NO annoying or useless up-kick to the kerb. I've got 3000K bulbs in them, individually hand-focused to perfection,:eek: and aimed a little bit lower than the older - 35 watt - halogens were.- The dipping HIDs are gathering dust in my shed.:( I regard this discussion on colour temperature really informative. I have regarded the head light colour as important but did not know why or what it was all about - just that for some reason, it seemed to matter.

Off hand, what is the approximate colour of the 35 watt OEM "Bi -whatever" bulbs in the projector, (this is what I call the round Fresnel type thick glass lens), headlamps on the D3? I have an LR3 but I expect they are the same as for the D3, except the aiming, RHD vs LHD.

I do not have any driving lights, just the standard setup and think it is pretty good, at least for my dark time driving which is mostly snow/winter. In summer, the sun does not set until about 2200 h and is back up by 0400 so lights do not matter much. Winter is different - dark from about 1600 h to 0800h.

[Beamin]

what happens if you need to flash your lights - do they go on and off quick enough?



Flashing the replacement HID high beams when your headights are turned off is a different experience. The main beams don't come on, just the high beam inserts (in a MY10 D4 SE). The first flash is very intense and quick like a camera flash and really gets attention. Subsequent flashes are a bit feeble and washed out but are still noticeable.

The replacement HID high beams take about 5 seconds to come up to full power the first time you flick them on, but there is no real delay for them to come back up after dipping them.

Going back to your initial problem with insufficient range, it might be worth starting with the simplest solution first. Try changing the vertical adjustment of your headlights to see if that fixes the problem. The standard headlights are very good (subject to the possum spotting defect) and the low beam has a distinct cutoff line that gives a good guide to avoid setting them too high and annoying other drivers. As part of the attempts to fix my possum defect the dealer helpfully adjusted mine down so that the halogen high beam was at road level but this left the low beams cutting off just in front of the bonnet - OK for urban areas with street lights but unsafe above 60km/h on country roads. I adjusted the lights back up to restore a useable low beam and fixed the possum lights with HID. Pretty happy with the result and factory low beam is excellent.

[101RRS]

Thanks for that - I was concerned that HIDs would mean headlight flashers would no longer be effective.

Thankfully my current highbeams are not looking for possums but just seem to run out of puff when is is really dark and no street lights - I also find that while spread at distance is fine, closer in the spread is not so good.

On the basis of advice on here I think I will go for HIDs (warmer range) to replace high beam and see how that goes.

Thanks to everyone for the advice - good stuff.

Cheers

Garry

[Graeme]

The LR bi-xenons are 4500K, about the lowest available colour temperature and still be whiteish. They look quite yellow compared even with 6000K.

[harlie]

If you put HID in the high beam filler; will you not get a “bulb out” error?

[jonesfam]

I may have been misinformed but:
When I bought the D3 I arranged with ARB to fit the B/bar & driving lights. During talks with the ARB people in Townsville I asked for HID driving lights, the 2 blokes I spoke to did not recommended HID for D/L's on the D3.
They said that the car already has good low/high beam lights with a very good spread of light, that HID D/L's would increase spread but not give much more penetration in distance.
They recommended good quality halogen D/L's though they would fit HID's if that is what I wanted.
A lot of this centered around my usually driving on remote area roads in flat terrain. So I ended up with IPF 600's with pencil beams in both. With the D/L's turned off the reduction in light range is quite noticeable, maybe 20 meters or more as an estimate.
I have also noticed that the standard (& all lights combined) give the best spread of light of any car I have owned, that includes cars with Lightforce & big motha Hellas.
My only whinge with the lights are that the low beam height cut off is really a line so it is hard to see/reads signs on tall posts & the amount of glare back off road signs in the bush, just blinds a poor ol' fella.
The above may all be BS just to sell me a cheaper set of lights, but that's what they recommended.
Jonesfam

[bbyer]

I am a bit retro on all this but if I had my way, we would all be driving behind 2500K yellow lights, and the street lights would be that as well.

My thinking is of course predicated by living in the great white north where either a full moon or just the northern lights dancing in the sky on fresh snow is common. These conditions can yield very good visibility and if everyone was just driving on their parking lights, one would see almost as well as during the day; well probably better as in the winter, the day can be a washed out dull gray and that is when I wear my polarized grey "sun" glasses - to get some contrast.

I note that the colour of HID's on my 3 is closer to 4,000K, and that I think for xenon is good relative to some of these "blue" things that come at me. There are quite a few RR Sports in the local area and when I see them on coming, the headlights do not bother me. I contrast this to the Mercedes products of a few years back when the HID's first appeared. The colour or something bothers me. In other words, given that everything is trade offs, I think Land Rover got it right.

I realize that I am talking about driving against traffic rather than being the only vehicle in a hundred miles and the nearest street light is a thousand miles away.

But back to 2500K yellow. Back in the seventies, I spent some time in New Caledonia and while it was all just small winding roads in a tropical setting, all vehicle lighting was yellow so on coming traffic was like they only had their park lights on, (may be different now).

For me, seeing the road and edges was good, but speeds were low so to speak. Where there are no bright spots, ones eyeballs open up more and overall, lower lighting levels, but even, seem to yield better overall visibility. The same with street lights, the yellow ones do not reflect back falling snow so the night illumination seems more even.

[Graeme]

If you put HID in the high beam filler; will you not get a “bulb out” error?
Not with my D4 - no difference between both halogens working or no halogens or just 1 relay coil.

[~Rich~]

I don't know what light pattern the RRS high beam produces, but the D4 high beam provides a very useful (if only it wasn't in the trees) wide, flat beam that lights the verges well. Therefore converting the D4 high beam to HID (with the globe slanted) is very worthwhile. I fitted an ebay 50/55W kit, using 1 high beam supply wire as the trigger wire for a relay that powers the HID ballasts. I opted for the 3000K yellow globes for best visibility in rain but 5000K would have been my 2nd choice for best all-round light.
The HID high beam is slow to light-up if not used recently, but if dipped for oncoming traffic it responds quickly enough to be able to see through the spray if used whilst still alongside a passing truck.

Hi Graeme, got a link to the eBay kit you bought please?

[Graeme]

Whilst this link is not the same brand that I purchased, it appears to be the same. I see that this supplier doesn't have 3000K globes but they have 4300K (same as D3/4 which are not 4500K as I stated earlier) which I haven't seen before in the cheap kits.
55W HID Xenon KIT H1 H3 H7 HB3 HB4 H8 H11 9005 9006 50W | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/55W-HID-Xenon-KIT-H1-H3-H7-HB3-HB4-H8-H11-9005-9006-50W-/190533025801?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c5ca74009)

[101RRS]

So what would be the recommended heat range??

4300, 5000, or 6000 noting that these are for high beam and will be off most of the time except when in country areas etc.

I assume the current halogens are H4???

Garry

[Graeme]

I suspect the RRS uses H7 globes like my D4, but your handbook may state what they are. The 4300K will give the best penetration and least glare of the "whites". The 6000K will seem to be the brightest but you wont see past the foreground as well as you would with 4500K.

[Duck's Guts]

I've got the LR 35W 4500K HID bi-xenons, 55W 6000K HID replacements for the halogen infill high beams, and a set of 35W 5000K HID Euro beam 7" driving lights.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members/duck%27s+guts-albums-duck%27s+guts+2.7td+d4-picture1793-arb-bar-warn-9-5xp-winch-hid-euro-beam-driving-lights-halogen-roof-light-pod.jpg
The light spread is magnificent. The colour rendering terrific. This has been the best lighting I've had on a vehicle & give me the best chance to spotting skippy's & other wildlife. The 7" driving lights do provide a very different light spread to the vehicle lights.
But I do find that compared to halogen set-ups that I need to dip earlier due to oncoming traffic or when coming up behind vehicles. The 7" driving lights are more so the culprit that requires earlier dipping of the high beam, so if it is happening too often, I just switch them off & rely on the vehicle lights.
I've had halogen Lightforce, Super Oscars, Hellas and KC's on other vehicles, & the HID's leave them for dead. No contest. The next step would be to move to the LED light bars like what Owl has...when the price comes down...come on eBay!
Agree 100% with Superquag that HID replacements for low beams are an absolute No No.

[Mike_S]

The HID replacements you have for the high beams, don't suppose you have a link or details of them to hand do you ? The only thing I'm disappointed with on the lighting of mine is the high beams and I keep looking at uprating the bulbs...

[DiscoWeb]

I have a very simple question, please excuse my ignorance.

I have a 2009 D3 with the Bi-Xenon lights.

Is the HID highbeam upgrade as simple as replacing the high beam globe or is it more complex.

I do not do many country miles, but have to date found the lighting to be more than adequate for my driving. Early on I in my ownership I did a trip down to Adelaide and a couple of the days ended late and I found the high beams excellent, but if an HID upgrade was simple then it would be a relatively cheap and easy improvement.

I would not contemplate a set of driving lights unless I get around to doing some outback touring and this would be combined with the fitment of a bar anyway.

Again apologies for the very simple question but the discussion about light spectrums etc has flown well over my head.

George.

[Duck's Guts]

The HID replacements you have for the high beams, don't suppose you have a link or details of them to hand do you?

Mike, the HID replacements are for the quartz halogen infill high beams. I purchased H7 55W HID's at 6000k colour from eBay Australia. Seller was in Aust & had Aust stock. Sellers name was "celli_electronics". The ballasts incorporated "integrated canbus & warning light cancellation technology". So no error codes on the D4's computers.


Is the HID highbeam upgrade as simple as replacing the high beam globe or is it more complex. ...
Again apologies for the very simple question but the discussion about light spectrums etc has flown well over my head.

George, the upgrade was easy. Change QH bulb for HID bulb. Drill hole in the plastic cap LR has fitted in the back of each headlamp to access the HQ bulb. Fit HID replacement grommet and wiring loom. Zip tie HID ballast, plug in HID wiring loom to L/R HQ bulb plug. Easy as. The most difficult bit is the hole saw drilling in the plastic cap.

Re colour spectrums, the following info I've ripped from a HID replacement bulb's web site:

It is a common misconception, that the higher you go in colour temperature, (8000k, 10000k, 12000k) the brighter your headlights are. This is false. The higher you go in colour temperature the lower the actual amount of light that is put onto the road.
So what colour do you choose? 4300k is the OEM standard of factory HID lighting systems, which as mentioned is bright white with a slight yellow hue. 5000k is as close to pure white as you can get. 6000k is the most popular, as it is bright white with a slight blue tinge. Any higher than 6000k and you get a more noticeable blue tinge right up to 12,000k which is a blue / purple light.



Colour Temperature (Kelvin)

Colour Description

3000K

Yellow light (suitable for fog lights)

4300K

White light with tinges of yellow (OEM standard)

5000K

Pure White Light

6000K

White light with tinges of blue

8000K

Distinct blue colour light

10,000K

Bluish-green light

12,000K

Bluish-purple light

[bbyer]

I have a very simple question, please excuse my ignorance. I have a 2009 D3 with the Bi-Xenon lights. Is the HID high beam upgrade as simple as replacing the high beam globe or is it more complex. George. The link below is to a thread on disco3 where they are changing the low beam quartz to HID. There are a couple of jpg's showing drilling the rear of the low line D3 lamp casings and mounting the ballast.

Where you already have the high line HID projectors, I think the H7R bulb could to into the quartz high beam hole in the same manner.

DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - HIDS4U HID Conversion Kit Anti Glare - STOP HID Glare (http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic51079.html)

[blazing928]

for HID info

The Retrofit Source online: headlight upgrades for all applications (http://www.theretrofitsource.com/)

go to TRS Tech for an explanation of HID.


this link for LED light bars & HID

Home - Vision X USA (http://www.visionxusa.com/index.html)

There is no upgrade for HID globes, as stated by others you need around 4000k which is OEMish.

There are some excellent upgrades for projector lenses & units [see above link] , etc, see above link & to a lesser extent reflector units, which don't apply to Discos.

You cannot fit a HID to a halogen reflector and get a best result. The focus is different as the HID globe is longer. Thats what causes the glare problem.
After market units use a system where the globe move back and forth to give a "bi" effect, not the correct shutter system. Most shutters are switchable left hand drive to RHD, just swap the shutter around.
From memeory the high is not great as a lot of light is lost due to the light design, so a dedicated high beam/driving light is better.

but,

A lot of cars have halogen high beams as the HID takes too long to come on and if repeatedly flashed the unit over heats and will switch off to protect itsself.

HID are illeagal to fit unless the light has a self levelling adjustment.
HID only draw 35watts, so easier on the electrics.
A good HID should have less glare because of the cut off. Usually its halogen converted units that have too much glare.

The Jaycar units , Response, use the globe moving system. Don't buy.

I have a HID in my motorbike, Duke 907, and its only good for two reasons, a/ less watts needed in a marginal charging system, b/ more glare works well to warn drivers!!
Lights are still crap at night for the focus reasons.

All light we see is reflective, yellow lights are just lower luminance so they appear to reflect less, but they may give more contrast in the snow, its why we wear yellow goggles!


Is amber light better in foul weather than white light?

From the Vision site;
Amber colored lights perform better in foul weather conditions such as fog, snow, and rain because they remove the blue light waves from the spectrum. Blue light is the hardest color for the eye to work with because of its short wave length and because of the glare that this creates. When the amber light hits and bounces back off the snow, fog, or rain, etc., because there is no blue light, there is less glare that blue light provides in "backscatter" off of the visual obstruction, making the amber light less distracting to the eyes and therefore making it a better performer in foul weather.

[Disomania]

I'm just going to put a pair of lights on the ARB bar. Just need to decide 2 things:

1. Brand of light. Really like the Hella alloy ones but at $1500 each from a dealer...

2. Rectangular or Round? There's a few pictures I've found with round, and they look OK, but have not seen any with the rectangular lights.

[bbyer]

I gather that rectangular lights lend themselves to wide beam fog type beam patterns; round lights to distance lighting.

In reality, with Hella one can purchase either way; with Light Force, I think about all they have is different diameters of round.

If one is putting $3,000.00 worth of lights on the front of the 3, I think I would be insuring each light individually. That makes a windscreen look cheap. I think I might want to mount them up real high, keep them dirty, and hope no one notices them.:)

[Graeme]

I think I might want to mount them up real high, keep them dirty, and hope no one notices them.:)
Might have to mount them backwards for protection from stones at that price!

[Disomania]

For the money, they are not worth it - just look spectacular with the metal body and the way they are constructed.

Lightforce are a nice brand, and a possibility as is IPF. I tend to shop at the high end of the market these days, and usually end up with somthing that is well supported both locally and overseas as you never know when you may need parts. Some of the cheap chinese lights are changed so often that you are screwed if you want to get parts.

On the other hand, they are so cheap, you can just replace them I guess. Time to go looking seriously for lights I guess at the next 4wd show in February (I'm not in a hurry)

[Graeme]

Might have to mount them backwards for protection from stones at that price!
I must have jinxed myself with this comment as my 3 months old windscreen now has a significant crack from a rock thrown by a truck that just had to cut a slight bend.

[Disomania]

Ouch!

Sorry to hear about that. Not going to be cheap unless you have a 'free yearly windscreen' in your insurance.

[BigJon]

I'm just going to put a pair of lights on the ARB bar. Just need to decide 2 things:

1. Brand of light. Really like the Hella alloy ones but at $1500 each from a dealer...

2. Rectangular or Round? There's a few pictures I've found with round, and they look OK, but have not seen any with the rectangular lights.

Buy Hella Rallye 4000s and convert them to HID. I have done this and the results are brilliant (no pun intended) for far less outlay than the Hella Predator (HID).

[rocket scientist]

I put an HID kit in my Super Oscars.
Nice bright spread for the tracks and winding roads.:D:D
All I need now are a couple of small pencil beams.

[Graeme]

Older halogen lights converted to HID don't look like expensive HIDs so might be less likely to be stolen and they're much cheaper to replace if they do get stolen.

Edit: With all this discussion about lights, I revisited my setup and discovered that there's very little light straight ahead because the possum lights don't shine low enough in that spot. Therefore the driving lights are going back on when some more ballasts arrive, having used them when replacing the halogens.

[Disomania]

After discussion with ARB, I was told that IPF have new lights coming soon. Prediction is they will be LED so that should be interesting.

With HID lights so common now, the theft of them seems to be dropping off - unless they are the type with the internal ballast - seems they are popular items.

[talltales]

I upgraded my IPF 800 (1 pencil and 1 spread beam) on my Disco 3 to HID for $70 each and what a difference. My wife even noticed the difference and they are only 35W bulbs. The conversion took 1 hour for the first and 30min for the second. I mounted the balast on the rail behind the grill and all is fine.

[Disomania]

I'll just buy the HID version straight up - or LED if that's what the new ones are. Should really set off the front.

[101RRS]

Usually Bi Zenons use the same HID bulb for low and high beam with a mechanical shutter changing the light spread. This prevents any problems with the HID taking time to warm up.
As far as I can tell the Bi Zenons on the D3 work this way with an auxiliary QH high beam light also.


I cannot speak for the D3 but in the equivalent RRS the Bi Xenons provide low beam only - when you switch to Hi beam there is no change in the Bi Xenons at all. (checked them tonight) Other than using less power for the same light, I do not see what advantage the Bi Xenons are, as the quality of light from the drivers seat is no better than a normal halogen low beam.

Garry

[Graeme]

Hi Garry,
They're called bi-xenons because they operate as both low beam and high beam. If the light output doesn't change on high beam then there's a fault somewhere. There's a shutter that shades the globe for low beam but moves out of the way for high beam. Did you switch to high beam or flash high beam?

[101RRS]

There is no change in the Bi Xenons when I actually switch from low beam to high beam and then switch back. Obviously the hi beam halogens go on then off but no change in the Bi Xenons.

Garry

[Graeme]

I've read about an occasional sticky shutter mechanism but on both lights seems strange.

Do you know whether the previous owner only drove in the city, perhaps never using high beam?

[Graeme]

It seems that I should not have used the word "occasional" as its a common occurance, although usually sticking on high beam. You could try thumping the lights a few times whilst on high beam.

If there's warranty on the vehicle then best to get them fixed under warranty.

[101RRS]

Car lived all its life between Wagga and Albury - and no warranty.

Maybe explains my issue with a rather average high beam.

Garry

[Graeme]

Yes, just the halogens with their spread would be very poor straight ahead.

The lights should be easy to remove to inspect the mechanism.

[Graeme]

Any progress on the lack of bi-xenon high beam Garry?

[101RRS]

No - been too cold and tied up doing a belt change in the Freelander.

Not a high priority as still have hi and low beam but not Bi Xenon high beam. I parked outside the post office so I could see the reflection in the window and the light from the bi xenons does not change when changing beam. Does the system use a shutter or move the bulb in and out??

Garry

[Beamin]

I'm fairly sure it's a shutter. It's weird that both aren't working. I'd be looking for something that is common to both and prevents them from triggering. Does anyone know if there is a common earth for both shutter actuators? A fuse perhaps? a bad connection in this part of the circuit? The switch is unlikely to be the problem because the halogens come on when high beam is selected

[bbyer]

I have attached a jpg of what I could find for the head light electrics.

I could not find any specific reference to the Bi-Xenon wiring but I think that is because any vehicle wiring differences are within the headlight assembly. I think that as it seems the power connector for the high line and low line vehicles is the same and that for the most part, one can buy the high line units to just replace the low line assemblies.

Also below is a jpg from Wikipedia of a shutter type bi-xenon and it is the solenoid controlled shutter that make the light a "bi", that is both high and low beam.

I "presume" the solenoid is powered from the same conductor as are the internal 55 watt halogen high beam bulb. Hence if the 55 watt halogen operates, the shutter solenoids should be powered as well. Hence, the problem is still a puzzle.

I have heard that the shutters can stick, but it is doubtful both sides would stick at the same time. Where a shutter is sticking, it seems that the solution has just been to keep flicking the highs on until they do move.

[Graeme]

Where a shutter is sticking, it seems that the solution has just been to keep flicking the highs on until they do move.
..whilst giving it several good thumps!

[bbyer]

..whilst giving it several good thumps! I checked the operation of my headlamp high beam flash this morning. I note that as expected, that both my Bi-Xenon shutters operate at the same time as the Halogen high beam bulbs illuminate.

In other words, if you can find a rough road that really bangs the 3 around, then operating the high beam flash stalk while bumping along is probably about the best fix effort there is.

From reading disco3 posts, it seems that there can be sticking of the shutters where the high beams have not been used on a routine basis.

Also there is one other thought.

I have daytime running lights. As such, my Bi-Xenons are on all the time but the high beam only operates if I have either the head light switch ON and the stalk pushed forward, or if the auto function is not seeing daylight which effectively turns the headlights on and then have the stalk pushed forward.

As such, a malfunction of the headlight auto on off mechanism could keep the both shutters up all the time and hence no high beam action on either of the Bi-Xenons. This would then explain why both of the lights do not function as it is odd that both shutters would stick at the same time. Also check 5 amp fuse 62P behind the glove box for power etc.

[101RRS]

In between skinning my knuckles and doing a lot of cursing changing the fuel injection belt on my Freelander I had a look at the lights in my RRS.

As usual it is difficult to get at anything but I was able to get into the bi xenon on the passenger side. Where I assume the shutter would be (between the HID bulb and the lens) there is a hole in the bottom of the light housing about 3" across. I could get four fingers in there and see them through the lense when looking from the front of the car.

So if this is the slot where the shutter is supposed to be - I have no shutters. If I had wanted I could have put my fingers back onto the bulb or forward to the lense. There is nothing at the bottom of the light housing to indicate a shutter though there is the spot where it would go.

STOP THE PRESS.

After the above I went back to have a look at the handbook and what I had in my car seemed different, then all becomes clear - while have the lens etc and when looking at the lights from a distance they change colour from blue to yellow etc I do not have Bi Xenons :mad:. They are halogens.:mad:

I didn't see that coming :( and explains everything. Here is pic of the back of the light housing - if bi xenons there should be a cover with a elect danger sign and some curving arrow indicating the turn left or right.

So maybe I need HIDs in the low beam slot as well as the high beam slots.

Thanks for all the advice - has resulted in me understanding my car a little better.

Garry

[Graeme]

"Ah, I see" said the blind man...at least that explains why they're no better than halogens!

If you're looking for better low beams you could fit H7R HIDs. The H7R globes have a shield to give low beam cut-off. However they wont improve high beam as the shields are fixed.

[101RRS]

Thanks - I wonder why the lens is still in front of the halogens because the lights would work a bit better without them. The halogens are only 55w in high beam as well as low beam.

I thought Bi Xenons were standard on D3 SE and HSE and on RRS but obviously not.

Those HR7 HIDs look the goods - probably 55w (the OEM LR ones are 55W) and 4300k colour. I wonder if the shields are needed in view of the lens - I don't know.

55w 5000k HIDs in the high beams should also be OK.

Cheers

Garry

[Graeme]

I wonder if the shields are needed in view of the lens - I don't know.
Good point, as the halogen globes don't have shields. If you were to get a kit with H7 globes you could try them in the low beam and if they produced excessive glare just use them for high beam and get the others for low beam.

[101RRS]

Whilst this link is not the same brand that I purchased, it appears to be the same.
55W HID Xenon KIT H1 H3 H7 HB3 HB4 H8 H11 9005 9006 50W | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/55W-HID-Xenon-KIT-H1-H3-H7-HB3-HB4-H8-H11-9005-9006-50W-/190533025801?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c5ca74009)

On your advice :) I have bought these - 5000k H7 to initially put in the low beams. Dunno how to test whether they will be too high or not - guess test it by the number of flashes I get when driving around.

If they are too high I will move them to high beams and get the H7R HIDs for low beams. If the normal H7s are OK I will get the same for the high beams.

Garry

[~Rich~]

I bought the 5000k H7's kit for my Halogen High beams, fitted them already.
Look so much whiter & brighter. :)
I have not been able to drive my D3 as I am not allowed to drive for a 6 week period until I see my doctor again.
Less than 2 weeks left to go ;)
I'll report back then!

[Graeme]

Dunno how to test whether they will be too high or not
I'd be inclined to compare the light patterns / cut-offs on a wall after fitting the 1st, and I'd do the left one because of less interference with the other. They might flash on startup, so either get the headlight specs changed to bi-xenon or just put up with the initial flashing.

[101RRS]

They might flash on startup, so either get the headlight specs changed to bi-xenon or just put up with the initial flashing.

Flashing??? I knew that HIDs might take a little while to get to full brilliance but what is this flashing. Also do the HIDs cause a fault message and if so how is this corrected (again LR being too smart for itself - the lighting system really does not need to go through the main computer system).

Garry

[Graeme]

The flashing, if it occurs, would be due to the lights being momentarily switched off because of unexpected higher current being drawn by the ballasts whilst starting the globes than normally required by 55w halogens. Changing the light specs to bi-xenon prevents lights upgraded to bi-xenons from flashing, but as they're only 35W, 55W might still trigger a suspected excessive current shut-down.

I've only read about L322 RRs giving globe fault messages.

[101RRS]

So it is the usual D3/RRS computer having a hiccup over nothing rather than there being an actual issue with the wiring and its ability to support 55w HIDs.

When mine arrive I will see how they go. I haven't found any aftermarket Bi Xenons that will fit without having to pull the light fittings apart to replace the lens with the lens supplied with the kit.

Thanks for all the information you have provided - it has been very informative.

Garry

[harlie]

Back to the Bi xenon shutter for a moment – The shutter will have a different + feed to the halogen filler, when the lights are flashed only the filler operates, as flashing a HID globe shortens its life expectancy not to mention the warm up time making it ineffective. The only way that the filler can fulfill this function without the shutter is for a separate feed.

The L322 has 2 extra feeds for Bi Xenon high beam function – one to operate the shutter and one to power the “Bi Xenon ECU” (third + feed is for the filler). Cars with halogens often have no fuse in the slot that powers the ECU…

[101RRS]

Back to the Bi xenon shutter for a moment – The shutter will have a different + feed to the halogen filler, when the lights are flashed only the filler operates, as flashing a HID globe shortens its life expectancy not to mention the warm up time making it ineffective. The only way that the filler can fulfill this function without the shutter is for a separate feed.

The L322 has 2 extra feeds for Bi Xenon high beam function – one to operate the shutter and one to power the “Bi Xenon ECU” (third + feed is for the filler). Cars with halogens often have no fuse in the slot that powers the ECU…

Yes - if I put after market Bi Xenons into my car I would have to do some wiring work to supply hi beam power to the shutters as well as the filler lights. But I have no idea if the "halogen" lens that I have in my headlights as standard is compatible with after market Bi Xenons. Hence I am not real keen to go this route.

Garry

[harlie]

Garry – there is not anything to replace the H7 that has a moving shutter, the only way to get bi-xenon is with H4 replacements or the shutter in the projector as per factory option.
I have to agree – I’m surprised to hear there is a halogen globe in your projector, the Jap manufacturers are doing that, I assumed the RRS was the real thing…

[101RRS]

Garry – there is not anything to replace the H7 that has a moving shutter, the only way to get bi-xenon is with H4 replacements or the shutter in the projector as per factory option.


You are correct about H7s and no shutter - the H7 Bi Xenon kits use the moving bulb process rather than a shutter to get hi/lo beam.

Garry

[Graeme]

I’m surprised to hear there is a halogen globe in your projector
I thought the reflectors in my previous D2a were projectors and they only used H7 halogens. I fitted +50 globes to the low beams and HID to the high beams which made them a lot better than standard.

[harlie]

I thought the reflectors in my previous D2a were projectors and they only used H7 halogens. I fitted +50 globes to the low beams and HID to the high beams which made them a lot better than standard.

No - D2 never had projectors - reflectors are reflectors. Projector (& lens) is the "eye ball" looking lights like the D3SE/HSE and RRS have - Base D3 had reflector lights.

Red book list xenon as an Option for the early RRS - Headlamps - Bi-Xenon (for low & high beam) - Mazda, Toyota ect put halogens in a projector, I just thought all the EU cars were the real thing...

Base model D3 lights in left pic, other 2 are D3 projector lights

[AnD3rew]

These days I do my best to avoid long distance night driving as there are just too many Roos. But when it has been unavoidable I must say I find the D3 bi xenons to be excellent, so much so I really don't find myself with any desire to add extra lights for the first time in any vehicle I have owned.

[Graeme]

Projector (& lens) is the "eye ball" looking lightsThanks Harlie, I hadn't considered that the term projector was for the lens, thinkig it was referring to a multi-facet reflector.

[101RRS]

HIDs have arrived - 5000k, 55w. I am inclined to put these in the high beams - waiting for the weather to improve to pull the headlight fittings out.

Been thinking about low beams - the eyeball lens creates a beam that is shaped like () pointed down a bit - so if the HID globe ends up in the same spot as the halogen relative to the reflector (which it should) the beam should be the same making shielded HIDs unnecessary.

For the low beams I am tempted to get 35w HIDs - 4300K - with slim line ballasts as space will be a premium.

Any thoughts??

Garry

[~Rich~]

HIDs have arrived - 5000k, 55w. I am inclined to put these in the high beams
That's exactly what I did Gary.
You need to buy a 25mm holesaw to drill a hole in the back of your light assembly, I fixed the ballast under the light unit.
I'll post some pictures soon for you.

[~Rich~]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/07/480.jpg
Overall view, cables actually sit in the centre recess, light unit is upside down.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/07/481.jpg
Pop riveted bracket from inside due to space.
Ballast siliconed to light to hold position.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/07/482.jpg
25mm hole saw used.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/07/483.jpg
Tight position on passengers side.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/07/484.jpg
Same story drivers side.

[superquag]

In other words, if you can find a rough road that really bangs the 3 around, then operating the high beam flash stalk while bumping along is probably about the best fix effort there is.

.

Gosh! - I did'nt realize that the D3's suspension was SO bad....:p:p:twisted:

[101RRS]

That's exactly what I did Gary.
You need to buy a 25mm holesaw to drill a hole in the back of your light assembly, I fixed the ballast under the light unit.
I'll post some pictures soon for you.

Rich - Thanks for that and the pics - great stuff.

Cheers

Garry

[~Rich~]

More than happy with the results of fitting HID's instead of the standard Halogen high beams.
Zenon low beam / road
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/07/65.jpg

HID & Zenon high beam / road
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/07/66.jpg

Zenon low beam / field ( yes I'm not exactly level with the field! You can't see the first second light post)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/07/67.jpg

HID & Zenon high beam / field ( Can see the second & third light post!)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/07/68.jpg

Yes they are bright and white!
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/07/69.jpg